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Dear MangaStream supporter,
It's with a heavy heart that I make the following announcement. MangaStream will no longer be
releasing the following series:
- Naruto
- Bleach
- One Piece
- Hunter x Hunter
- Kateikyoushi Hitman Reborn!
- Claymore
- D.Gray-man
VIZ Media has demanded that we end our scanlation work for all of the above. This comes despite
our best efforts to pursuade fans into supporting official distributors by being the only group to
actively prevent an archive from forming on their website through the removal of chapters that are
older than a couple weeks. They've succeeded in little more than invoking inconvenience to the
community as their digital magazine missed the mark; it runs several issues behind and only
features 3 of the above series. So long as their product continues to be slow, awkward and inferior to
something a ragtag group of nobodies can churn out in a few hours - fans will continue to look to
scanlation groups and aggregators for their weekly fix.
The aggressive and escalating nature of their threats have forced our hand into removing the content.
MangaStream will no longer be posting full scanlations for any of the aforementioned series, we will
instead focus our efforts onto the series we do that are not licensed by VIZ Media (you can assume
everything currently on our directory will be continued).
http://mangastream.com/content/jump
Comments (limited to first 100 replies)
» RevanRevanchist on February 12th, 2012, 12:31am
» geowrian on February 12th, 2012, 1:07am
» VawX on February 12th, 2012, 1:25am
The fact that not just Viz but other licenser actually sell something with worse in quality and speed than a single team can do is really a shame mmm...
» Lynkz on February 12th, 2012, 1:37am
this is a big hit to others though. it's sad to see MS stop those mainstream series due to corporate bullying... sheesh, if you want people to buy your stuff then produce material worth buying...
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 6:38am
» derpMonster on February 12th, 2012, 3:56pm
» Seijurou on February 12th, 2012, 4:18pm
» Verito.S on February 12th, 2012, 11:14am
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 11:58am
» dragon1024 on February 12th, 2012, 1:30am
» derpMonster on February 12th, 2012, 1:31am
» Saracin on February 12th, 2012, 1:51am
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 6:35am
» auriga on February 12th, 2012, 2:06am
Yes, MangaStream's activities are illegal, but forcing them to shut down isn't the only way to reclaim your market (if you can even do so in the process). A better alternative would have been for Viz to improve their operations; that has much better chances of raking the money in.
» DMu7434680 on February 12th, 2012, 2:14am
» auriga on February 12th, 2012, 3:30am
Bottomline is Viz has to realize that they're doing something wrong/they're not doing enough.
» deadphoenix on February 12th, 2012, 4:23am
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 6:34am
illegal means illegal, it doesn't mean that it's fine to do it sometimes and sometimes not. They shutdown cuz they got enough. Kinda like how scanlators are warning you to stop supporting mangafox and you don't give a crap, and then they stop scanlating the shit or start putting watermarks on it.^^
I bet ya, MS is the first to get that heavy a threat but won't be the last one. >.>
» auriga on February 12th, 2012, 7:25am
Yes, it is illegal; I already said that. There are no exceptions, no double standards. Am I sad because of this news? Yes. HOWEVER since I choose to read scanlations I understand that this is part and parcel of the illegal scanlation community. Viz has every right to tell MangaStream to stop and MangaStream did good by following suit.
But it doesn't change the fact that Viz needs to do better.
Think about it: would Viz be this aggressive if they were making a lot of money? Or we can look at it this way: if Viz is making a lot of money, that means their services satisfy their customers; If customers are satisfied by Viz's services; would illegal scanlation groups like MangaStream be this active? I doubt.
I can't help but feel that Viz is sourgraping that some no-name amateurs who don't get paid are beating them at their game. But instead of modifying their business model to be able to compete better they choose to eliminate their competition. Well their competition is using illegal means so it's justified, but in the end this is just a temporary measure for Viz; If they really want to increase their profits and attract more customers in the long run they should suck it up and admit that they need to work harder.
And for the record... I don't even go to MangaFox unless my duties as a release mod require me to do so. Heck, I don't even read online. You can even read my opinion on watermarks and legal manga in the watermark news thread.
» PROzess on February 12th, 2012, 8:11am
Jesus....
You just can't satisfy the greedy readers.
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 8:49am
So when you complain...you are allowed to complain but you got no right to do anything about it. Why? They own the titles. They can do whatever they want with them. Makes you wonder, eh? Yes, just like even if you find ipads to be annoying you can't sell their software without asking them or share it for free...it's illegal. So even if they fuck you up...you can't do anything, well with the exception of not buying their product if you don't like it.
"I don't even go to MangaFox unless my duties as a release mod require me to do so." <---- ahhh another one of those. Your duties as a release mod. tsk tsk tsk I really hope they come after you. You do know that your ip address has been recorded on this server, now if VIZ comes to MU and tell them they will sue them if they don't give the address of the owner of this statement and then they can see that you are in one of the countries they can get you at...well, hello jail.
So even if VIZ is sourgraping....they have to protect their business. We do the same here in my country. You know it takes many years to make something but only a few weeks to copy it? That's a problem thus they made the stuff called copyright, patent and so on...
Oh and I agree with you...if VIZ were making lots of money they wouldn't take these action but they are not. That is a problem for VIZ, if it was free commercial then they wouldn't have minded it. It is not. Thus they are angry...which isn't that weird.
Still I can't watch it the way you do: If their service was satisfying then there wouldn't be any problems for them. lol sorry...that's so damn funny. You know the usual excuse for people not buying manga is:
I'm too poor
They aren't doing it nice enough
You can't get it in my country
So Viz should buy rights and release to everyone in the world, do it "nice" enough and make it so cheap so everyone can buy it? Pleeeeaaaaaaseeeeee, if you can't buy it then dont buy it. It's not like you can't live without comics...or are you really that lame? If you get caught you got no good enough reason to say that you just had to do it, since you would be dead otherwise, lol.
Company not being good enough doesn't equal stealing company's income.
» YamiRi on February 12th, 2012, 3:21am
I don't know who VIZ Media is... but hopefully other scanlator can do same wonderful job like Mangastream did
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 6:31am
...
GO FIND OUT WHO VIZ MEDIA IS!!!
I guess this is also one of the reason why they sue people >.>
» ZenTzen on February 12th, 2012, 1:02pm
So a lot of people turn to scanlation
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 2:38pm
I don't live in usa and I like manga...well I like hentai much more. So there are no problem when you can order your stuff from amazon. Oh wait he's underage now, right? I had that feeling reading some of the comments.
Still...I bet he doesn't even know the company that releases his naruto either (or any of the other titles he reads at MS), does that makes it okay to not know them when it's them who make the title? After all it's theirs not the scanlation groups property we are talking about.
» mewarmo990 on February 12th, 2012, 3:26am
But MangaStream is correct in their announcement. It's something mangaka Ken Akamatsu noted in his Twitter and interviews as well - if companies are going to consistently release delayed, expensive, and mediocre publications while fan groups surpass them in every way, this type of infringement will continue.
» deadphoenix on February 12th, 2012, 4:08am
Now is the question what effect this will have on the market, are people that are furious still going to buy it (Similar things happened in the past) and people that bought it out of obligation after reading it will also being lost (I'm in this group). VIZ doesn't probably know that they have to thank a lot of the series success of mangastream (and crunchyroll), they even force people to buy it. Most scanlations groups aren't the culprit (the main culprit are those big COMMERCIAL online-readers).
At least I hope they don't go bankrupt like Tokyopop, then I will lose all trust in in the North American Manga Industry.
» ink junkie on February 12th, 2012, 6:21am
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 6:29am
So yes they can sue your ass for their titles only.
Now if the other companies start doing the same then...ouch my balls >.<
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 6:26am
Manga isn't free, you know...yes, yes, I know you pay for the electricity, the computer and the net to read your manga on the net but still...that's not how you buy your manga.
Welcome to the future you deserve, fuckers. Go thank websites like mangafox for letting the companies know that scanlation is a threat to them and they should just sue our asses if we don't drop the titles.
Anyway glad I learned japanese enough to read raws...woooooot~
» PROzess on February 12th, 2012, 8:13am
That's the only way we can be saved!
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 8:51am
» Lord Jure on February 12th, 2012, 6:57am
Hoping that sales of VIZ's manga will drop because of this? VIZ is a business company that release manga (among other things) in english language. Unless you understand Japanese, you should be glad companies like VIZ exist and be glad that they release a good quality products. Yes, their releases are in much better quality than any scanlations you have seen, they also started releasing few weekly titles only 3 weeks after they are released in Japan. Even though it's only available online in USA, it's still a considerable improvement. Despite what anyone else say, they ARE trying. As for their printed releases, yeah you have to wait few months for new volume. But guess what, so does everyone in Japan. VIZ release most of their ongoing manga at same pace as in Japan, but 1-3 volumes behind. People who think VIZ should hire scanlators because they are fast are fucking retards. If VIZ could and would want to release manga faster, than they would do it.
Despite whatever you think, Mangastream has NO RIGHT to release scanlations of any VIZ titles. VIZ paid money to have rights to produce and release manga on english language. Mangastream did not. That means, if VIZ tells mangastream to stop it, they didn't do it because they are cheap bastards who are just after money, because they want to bully scanlators or because they don't want competition (seriously, this last one is just ridiculous). They are enforcing their god damn rights.
There are also people who say that VIZ should go after manga reader sites and not after TRUE jump fans. First of all, I think that "true" Jump fans actually buy and spend money on merchandise related to series runing in Jump. So, unless you have bought a manga volume or anime DVD or even a console game, you are full of shit. Secondly, VIZ did go after manga reader sites. But it's sites like those that are actual greedy bastards that you should hate. VIZ is not the bad guy, manga reading sites are the bad guys, because they earn money from scanlatins. Most of manga reader sites decided to simply ignore VIZ's demands. Mangastream did the right thing.
People who are actually mad because of this are people who wouldn't pay a single dollar even if somehow all scanlations magically dissapear and only way to read newest chapter of manga they like is to pay money and read it either online or on paper. I am pretty certain that even if VIZ manage to release whole WSJ magazine only an hour after it's released in Japan, fully translated, in perfect quality and only 2$, most people wouldn't bother paying those 2$ a week just to read that. So yeah, don't be full of shit and demand improvement, when you don't plan to actually support manga industry.
Scans of all those titles are still easy to find online for free, even without mangastream releasing them. Not to mention that there will probably bew few new groups, trying to gain some popularity by releasing those.
Sure, VIZ is no perfect, but all this hate is complete bullshit from immature and cheap pirates. It would be great if their online reader have more titles and is available worldwide. Not to mention if their printed releases get a dollar or two cheaper. Also, I hope they reprint some of their volumes that are impossible to find anymore. I am no saint eather. I read bunch of manga, but only buy a selected few. The rest of them, I download for free. But at least I am not bitching like a little girl every time I am denied my free fun, because that fun was not supposed to be free in the first place.
I said what I wanted to say, I am now out of here.
» GGpX on February 12th, 2012, 7:19am
Too bad the forum you chose to post it in is filled with mostly silly posters who can't see further than their own noses.
» Jeoxx on February 12th, 2012, 7:30am
» keaglez on February 12th, 2012, 10:40am
Viz as far as I can see did a good job already, releasing it 3 weeks after Japan. That was good enough pace, and unlike scanlation, I believe they need to have their translation and edit approved first which make sense of the delay. Now if only Viz can release it globally, but again, they only hold license for US market and a global release would probably hurt publishers on another country.
That said, while we are all hoping to see a same day release as Japan or a legal manga reader accessible globally, it just doesn't seems to be possible yet. I still hope there is a solution as there is plenty of demands.
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 12:07pm
The less the companies take the less their workers get. Not to mention how will they compete with scanlators who takes nada (in most cases)?
» sleepless_sin on February 12th, 2012, 1:49pm
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 2:39pm
Who's the bigger fool, the fool or the one who follows the fool?
» Lord Jure on February 13th, 2012, 12:47am
» Paikiej on February 13th, 2012, 12:31am
I am glad that there are companies like Viz who translate manga. I think most people are. That does not mean I am not sad about the fact that Mangastrema has to stop scanlating. I read Narute, Bleach, One Piece, D.Gray-man and Claymore online.
And I own at least nineteen volumes of each of those series. So yes, I am sorry that Mangastream has to stop. But that sure won't stop me from buying the manga Viz Media publishes.
And seriously... Remember Tokyopop? Everyone was so full of complains about them. The pages were thin, not enough releases etc. etc. But when they went bankrupt, did you hear people cheering? Well, I sure didn't. When they went bankrupt, people suddenly realised that they couldn't read there manga in english anymore. So then they got mad at not being able to read at all. Now imagine Viz going bankrupt. Imagine the manga, anime, merchandise... Imagine it all gone. Would you be happy with that?
I sure wouldn't.
So be carefull what you wish for.
» Lord Jure on February 13th, 2012, 12:53am
Well, luckily for me, that will not happen, at least not soon. Viz is still going strong, sort of.
» jojo_da_crow on February 12th, 2012, 7:58am
1. We either picked different series and moved on.
2. We simply changed our name, stuck up a new website, and continued on with what we were doing.
3. We made the releases harder to find and put them on IRC.
I imagine that many of the people who were working on this series will probably offer up their services to someone who is currently working on the series and we will see our beloved series start coming out just as fast with the same quality we saw with mangastream. It is the nature of scanlation.
That being said, I find it interesting the amount of people in this thread who claim to have never bought VIZ manga yet are saying their work is inferior. They are SLOWER but I can't say their work is inferior. I currently own the first boxset of Bleach (21 Volumes) and I've enjoyed it very much. I'm not ashamed to say I'm waiting for the next boxset so I can buy it too.
Would I like for it to be a bit more raw and there be more curse words? Sometimes but the same meaning comes across and mothers across America for some reason feel better buying little Billy his manga with out the curse words in it. Viz makes some sales and we get physical copies of the manga we enjoy.
You get annoyed with them for changing something small... well yeah it sucks but a lot of that is up to the translator who is trying their best to make it relateable to people who have no knowledge of culture in Japan. "But they are treating us like we are stupid and don't know about Japanese culture!" No... they aren't. YOU are not the person they are trying to relate to. They know you will catch on to what is going on and understand it. If you are looking for manga through scanlations... chances are you know something about Japanese culture. But little Suzie who is sitting in a Books-A-Million right now picking up her first manga from the shelf doesn't know anything about Japan. She doesn't even know it is from Japan... but she is falling in love with this little book in her hands and she knows that there is something special about it. Years from now she will be one of us but she will never forget reading that first story. THAT is who these people do these translations for and I'm immensily proud that they are trying their best to bring more people into our folds.
That being said, I do agree with mangastream on this issue. I think they made a very intelligent and reasonable statement. Until these companies see that there is a demand for these series to be released every week and quickly it will be this way. Take Funimation for example. They are pretty much on par with some fansubbers now. Given the chance I'll wait a few days and go watch it on hulu when they release it. I actually like the translations better on their subs.
One possible solution? These companies need to open their own manga readers. Make it free. Make us watch a short commercial before reading a chapter. Put some ads on the pages. Set up a monthly subscription service so you can read all the series with little or no ads. Make some of your older series premimium so you have to pay a subscription... but every so often make them free to draw some more people in. Make all your new series series free, or at least the last few volumes free. Basically make a hulu like mangareader.
On top of that... make great products. Use your reader site to poll the very people who are reading your series to find out what they want. I love big beautiful box sets with color inserts. Does everyone? No but they could find out right there what people think with simple polls. The market research would be so easy.
I love manga. It is my passion. Hell, I wanna go scan some stuff right now I'm so pumped about it. I want to see it do well in America and all over the world. Viz call me. Let's do this and make you some money and make some fans crazy happy.
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 8:57am
Like titles dying out and never coming back again >.> I could give you examples but your 11.5 years should have shown you that.
There was no ACTA, PIPA, SOPA and EAR before...it's gone to far and online readers with ads popping up all over the place isn't making this all better.
When a rat is backed to the corner it bites the cat...you should know how those companies has started to complain more and more these years. They are just doing what they have to do to kill opponents and actually getting something for the money they used to license the titles.
» imp4ever on February 12th, 2012, 9:38pm
» darkdoll25 on February 12th, 2012, 8:42am
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 9:01am
Like dragon&fly scans is related to mangahere which is related to mangafox meaning all are owned by the illegal NOEZ company in China, mangazone is related to mangareader which is no better than mangafox.
Gonna be interesting to see what the next step for Viz is gonna be
» philip72 on February 12th, 2012, 9:59am
I never would have purchased One Piece or Claymore if I hadn't had free access to them first. Initially I thought their art sucked, one was too kiddy, and the other too grimdark.
Of course once I really started reading them I started to love them.
I now own 59 manga volumes, 5 DVD collections and 8 movies of One Piece, plus 19 volumes and the complete anime series in DVD and BluRay of Claymore. Just on those two titles I've spent approximately $2k.
Now I can do this because I've graduated uni, have a good paying job, and a Den in my basement where I can hide my powerlevel.
Just because you get older, doesn't mean you start disliking the things you loved as a teen. There's adult gamers, adult sports fans, adult sci-fi geeks and adult manga fans, and they all have the money to blow on their love. The latter however is nascent and is primarily the result of exposure due to fansubbing and scanlations, as there's really no other natural western mechanism for creating the fanbase.
By stopping the primary means of exposure now without offering a decent alternative, they may be eliminating future adult fans who have the money to support them.
» archknight on February 12th, 2012, 10:43am
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 12:06pm
» Seijurou on February 12th, 2012, 3:58pm
Right now, someone else will just pick up MangaStream's projects, which is particularly a given when talking about the Big Three. I just hope that they do a better job and do not watermark their releases.
» Li7hium on February 13th, 2012, 5:18am
» Verito.S on February 12th, 2012, 11:26am
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 12:05pm
Another thing, the thing about everyone knows that scanlation is illegal...nah many people and ever groups thinks that it's okay to do it as long as it's not licensed in english....which is WRONG! It's illegal to do it as soon as it's released in the country where it's first released aka Japan. I just explained last week to a guy in my Japanese class, much better than me in japanese btw, that it was illegal and he wouldn't acknowledge it until I showed him how it really worked.
This is how sad the world is.
We the scan..well the scanlators just try to follow the gray middle line that says we do it cuz we love it and want to share the love with others so they can love it too. The companies shut their mouth cuz it was kinda "okay" and they got commerce here and there for free. Then we got online mangareaders and it became a problem...well not at the beginning but when the companies sales began to fall they got angry and tried to stop this process without anything happening. Now they just did it their way...hard to get it, right? Try putting yourself in their shoes and try understanding how you would feel if someone did that to your income, not to mention the staff you had to fire cuz people weren't buying your crap anymore. Yes, the world sux but that's how it is.
» Li7hium on February 12th, 2012, 12:46pm
And those that keep saying piracy is the thing to blame for the dropping in sales no nothing. If it wasn't for scanlator, for example, how would many of the people that now buy viz's translations know about those shows? And another thing, if it weren't for the scanlator groups Viz wouldn't even be here today because manga wouldn't be known outside of japan/korea region.
And one more thing, that I keep telling, and most people don't care to stop and think about it. Many say piracy makes people stop buying the books but the truth is, most of those who download/watch manga over the internet, and don't buy the books, wouldn't buy them anyway if there were no scanlated version and this is what makes me laugh when I see all those big companies complain about piracy. If only they stopped to think that maybe, MAYBE many people don't buy the books because:
a) several books have completely missed translated lines
b) many can't afford the money they ask
c) people have an easier access to the goods trough the internet
They could solve all these problems if they made a site, like a big online reader, where all the authors could gather their work but this would bring a big problem to the companies that distribute the manga titles... They would have no reason to be around anymore so that's off the table... And that site idea could also allow for the manga to be free/cheap since, from what one could tell when looking at mangafox, that site would make up a good revenue.
So yeah, piracy has an impact on the sale numbers but it's way smaller than the big companies try to make it.
» PROzess on February 12th, 2012, 1:23pm
That's all to what it accounts.
Once you got something for free, why would you suddenly changed to the version you need to pay for?
And, seriously...
Stop complaining about VIZ...
WE ARE IN THE WRONG HERE. Even if it's a grey-line.
They BOUGHT the damn license. They are in the right.
I haven't seen any scanlator going buy a license yet...
Basically all you care about is:
A) Free Releases
B) Fast Releases
C) Easy to Access Releases
You're just a hypocrite if you start making excuse, saying it's otherwise.
» Li7hium on February 12th, 2012, 1:58pm
I exposed my point of view but if you can't respect it then please refrain from posting an insult as a reply. And how am I being a hypocrite by stating the obvious? Don't know about you but when I started reading manga online I was underage and didn't have a way to buy it, because there was no store in my country that sold it, and the only way to buy it would be using a credit card, which I didnt have at the time. Btw, I could also call you a hypocrite because I am completely sure you read most of your manga online so why don't you stop "supporting" the scanlating community and simply buy all the series you are interested? Right, I'm the hypocrite here...
And I stand by what I said. If you believe piracy is the only explanation to the drop in sales then ok... I'll just tell you that ACTA will put that into test very soon. And when everyone realizes that piracy wasn't the reason, at all, for the drop in sales it's going to be too late because, by then, the internet will never be the same.
For your information, the publishers will eventually vanish, being only a matter of time until that happens. I just hope that happens before the manga industry goes beyond the salvage point. And by that I mean that the hype outside japan is going to fade sooner or later because most of the series that are being published recently have a huge echi content but are pretty much lacking in every single aspect left. That may be appealing for the japanese market but if they want to make manga profitable worldwide that's also something to take into account. If they only care about the japanese market they shouldn't expect the sales to go rampant because that simply won't happen.
To conclude this wall of text, and like I said before, the huge manga reader would pretty much mean the end for all the online readers, which I agree with since they are making huge profits with other peoples work (both the author and the scanlation groups), and it would solve the "where to get" problem. Ideally, both the author and the scanlating community could work together to make this happen because, like I said before, the revenue of said site would be huge and could even allow for the manga to be free/very cheap and by working together with some of the best scanlation groups they could also learn more about their "environment".
As a reminder, if all you can do is bash other people as a way to express your opinion please refrain from doing so because that makes most people stop taking you serious.
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 3:00pm
the publishers will eventually vanish, being only a matter of time until that happens. I just hope that happens before the manga industry goes beyond the salvage point. <---- that's why they are going to use ACTA, so they can save what can be saved. These problems have been since OneManga...guess you don't know that...but it doesn't surprise me. Oh and I don't think the big 3 publishers who owns VIZ will disappear that quick...history time: Did you know that VIZ was one of the first companies in USA that released manga since the 80's? You may not know but they started with releasing chapters of dragonball....chapters not volumes. So my conclusion is...you got a higher chance to disappear than VIZ.
» Li7hium on February 12th, 2012, 4:15pm
Their biggest threat is the internet and not because of the scanlation groups. Let me give you an example... What if one of the "big 3" authors decided to quit his publishing company and started releasing his new material directly over the internet in an itunes app kind of thing? What if other authors followed his move? What would happen when all the authors followed this bold move? This would mean the end of the distribution companies and yet the manga titles would still be released.
Do you understand what I mean now? I admit I have some issues in making myself clear sometimes but I hope all has been cleared out now.
"You do know that most people who buy manga in japan are the japenese, right? >.>"
As for this part I couldn't quite get what you meant. Are you implying that japanese read scanlated series instead of buying them? If that's the case I repeat what I said, if people really like something they will end up buying it. If they suddenly couldn't read the show online anymore I don't think that would make them buy anyway (again, that's what would happen in my case. I already buy what I like).
» shinshuu on February 12th, 2012, 9:30pm
Enough note, japanese publisher quitting their company aren't likely as it mostly isn't own by one person. Most likely a corporate style. All they can do is change how to deliver to title to the viewer. Though their company can to bankrupt if they don't generate enough sale <unlikely in the near future since these company are huge. They run dozens of magazine (maybe even hundreds) and have popular title that viewer love under their belt.
» Li7hium on February 13th, 2012, 4:49am
Same can be said about the manga industry. Right now VIZ is responsible for delivering many of the hit titles we read but who says it will stay this way forever? All it takes is a well known mangaka taking an bold initiative and it may trigger the end of said company. This is what I meant by the kodak example.
And a huge online reader, with the support of good mangakas (if one of the "big 3" supported this idea, for example), could actually be the turning point in this dominant control of VIZ. And to be clear, the online reader I'm talking about would be a legit one, where the mangakas would release their work straight to the internet, and colect whatever monetary income they could get out of it.
Of course it all comes down to the titles they could gather but I'll give you "the breaker" as an example. Who could have thought that title would reach the success it has now? And the internet has an advantage many don't seem to see. People are different so if a series is not a big hit in japan, for example, that doesn't mean it couldn't be a big hit anywhere else. A good example of what I just said is "Double Arts" that got axed in japan but I remember it being a good hit, at least from what I could read here and from the number of people reading it. This aspect would make things interesting, IMO, as we would start seeing artists having their own niches and manga itself could improve and get out of this never ending loop of ecchi material that seems to be the only thing being released right now.
Off-topic: How can a manga such as All-rounder Meguru not have been licensed already. That's probably one of the few good mangas that have been released in the last couple of years but still haven't managed to get itself picked by a good company. I would be very happy to see del rey pick this up soon because I prefer them over VIZ anyway :\
» PROzess on February 13th, 2012, 3:56am
And at least I'm helpful to the scanlation by translating. What do you to besides reading?
And to your argument of underage and no way to buy!??
You crazy?
That would mean it's alright to rob a bank when you're underage, because yeah, you don't have a choice do you? You would just go into any supermarket and steal the stuff you need. Cuz yeah, you're underage and have no means to buy it legally?
Great reasoning! I'm so proud of you dude!!
» Li7hium on February 13th, 2012, 4:31am
Also, you should re-read what I typed. I never said it was ok to do so, I did say that was one of the reasons. Is stating an obvious reason the same as saying it is the right thing to do? Apparently for you it is the same...
Oh well, I'm glad the majority of the people in this world doesn't think the same.
» DragonAndLance on February 12th, 2012, 2:02pm
» Li7hium on February 12th, 2012, 2:55pm
And that's why I said that most manga, nowadays, relies too much on echiness and pretty much has nothing more than that. For some that may be enough but the majority expects a lot more than panty shots when it comes to spending money on a manga.
» shinshuu on February 12th, 2012, 9:13pm
As for buying, honestly, what the ratio of the manga read and bought. Perhaps one every 20 title...? If the manga are bad, then just don't read it. It shouldn't be, since the manga bad, I'm only going to read online for free (from beginning till the end), they don't deserve my penny. The quality of the manga in general can be tell in only a few chapters, thus you should stop reading after knowing that it's not your cup of tea.
If plain greed and selfishness that leecher/reader only want to read manga without paying a dime and still expect quality. How are the author to increase their manga quality when their livelihood is at risk? Too much worrying about real life issue = degration in manga since they can't plain the story properly.
» PROzess on February 13th, 2012, 3:58am
That's some pretty screwed logic.
IT'S FREE. that's all what counts. And the official stuff costs money. A fact. Who would people go pay for stuff that they easily can access for free on mangafox? That's reality. It has nothing to do with genre.
It's stupid to argue with genre. Strangely, the ecchi titles are somewhat the most popular titles anyway.
» Li7hium on February 13th, 2012, 5:00am
See what I did there?
And no, never said it was okay to read ecchi stuff online as opposed to read the other things. At his point I'm starting to think you are either provoking me on purpose or don't read what I write properly.
And to be clear on this, what I said is that ecchi material may be a huge hit over japan but from what I can tell (with friends, people I meet online, etc.) that isn't what most people want anymore. Sure, ecchi can still be fun to read but most titles that are being released only rely on this aspect (ecchi) and lack in pretty much everything else. You can't expect someone to buy a product that pretty much lacks in interest. Sure, people are different and like different things but if you actually stop to think most of the ecchi based titles end up being axed.. Yeah, must be because of the online readers..
Btw Prozess, I ask you again. What makes batoto okay and mangafox not? isn't batoto also profiting from illegally distributing copyright material?
And to clear things out I'm against both of them as long as they profit by making manga available online without the approval of the authors of said mangas.
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 3:01pm
Oh and I'll never buy eroges...I am sane enough to know not to stash pron under my bed
» Baniita on February 12th, 2012, 3:37pm
» Kaiten.Sama on February 12th, 2012, 4:46pm
» T1 on February 12th, 2012, 2:55pm
"That's the reason why stopped the production line. We are losing money instead of making them."
The companies are doing the same shit.
Many says that piracy is bad...well it is. I'll be true with ya...
I buy many manga titles I do much more than the people on this page...cuz I'm great.
I just read a lot more and I refuse to buy crappy end titles or titles I've finished and found them to be so-so. Now what would have done with I didn't know the crappy end or found them so-so cuz I didn't read them to the end?
I would have spent more money of them.
Before we start a huge convo about if we should stop piracy or not....no I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that you should always do something in moderation.
The reason the companies accepted us 5 years ago was that it was commerce for them when people got to know the titles and the companies released faster so you'd just buy the book since you couldn't wait that long for the scanlation group to release more. This is a good way to get your titles promoted and have people buying if they find the titles to be good, right?
The world we live in today, you don't need to find the titles, there are archieves all over the net to find them. You don't need to buy the title since the latest chapter is being released. You can still keep blaming you being poor, not have access or some other lame excuse which won't work in court if they get really angry and start making examples of people.
Now...what you don't seem to get which I keep repeating over and over but it's hard for you to read the posts:
THE REASON THE COMPANIES ARE TAKING THESE STEPS IS BECAUSE IT AFFECTS THEIR SALES!
It didn't do it before but these days with ads all over the place to tell you where to read your manga for free on the net affects their sales a lot. Now that you talk about mangakas and manwhakas....please know what you are talking about. The authors of the titles are also damn angry at the scanlators since they can find their titles on the net meaning online readers. A-team has more than often told online readers to stop on their site, through their watermarks because the dude who makes The Breaker has complained about this on his blog. He doesn't want to be famous by the likes of you and me so why do we keep doing it? Blood lagoon, Negima, berserk, black jack and many other authors are of the same opinion, they don't want to see their stuff on the net for free. They are losing money on it. They've been twittering curses on the net for the uploaders.
Yes, your excuse is that you don't know about it since you don't look into these kinds of news but they still exist. What gives you or me the right to cut in their income and let others earn on their stuff?
We shouldn't make this a world where we become too selfish and start giving a damn about people who actually make things for us to enjoy. That would be a sad world indeed. If you still don't get it, then you probably are one of those who don't get it no matter what since it's your way or the highway....exactly what the companies are trying to do since they got enough.
a) several books have completely missed translated lines <---- seriously? First time I've hearing and I buy lots of crap >.> I know sometimes, rarely, I find a page with a missing bubble but those are small and aren't even translated in the raw. Still it's much better than those shounen chapters where the bubble text has been copied to 2 bubbles since the translator forgot the bubble and the group just wanted to be the first one to release the chapter.
» Li7hium on February 12th, 2012, 4:00pm
For example, I have bought every single volume of Black Lagoon (why did it have to go into hiatus mode... WHY? and thankfully they didn't have typos or mistakes, that I remember seeing) but I refuse to buy manga such as High-School DxD (just to give you an example) because this last title only relies on echi situations and has a weak plot. Let's say tomorrow all the scanlation was over, would I buy any other volume besides the mangas I already know and which I already support the author? I would honestly NOT buy anything else. It would actually work against new artists really because I learner from personal experience that one should always "try" what they buy before hand (bought the war of the worlds dvd with tom cruise and after watching 30 minutes I was already bored... at the end I was questioning myself why did I even buy that... "thing").
All this to say that the authors have all the right in the world to demand their work not to be made available for free online but do they expect someone to simply go buy his/her work without knowing what they can expect? Because we all know how covers can be deceiving, right?
I think the manga industry needs a severe change in mentality because what's been making them lose ground is their fear of taking the next step towards the internet distribution. Someone already said something like an itunes app to distribute manga, I also said something like a huge manga reader site but one thing is for sure, the ones that have much more to lose with this move are todays manga distribution companies because they aren't needed anymore. I mean, think about it.. they are basically the middle man nowadays and they are the ones that get the biggest chunk of the profits yet, with the internet, they are kinda expandable since it allows for a bigger reach with lower costs. All it takes is the manga author and a team of IT experts to maintain the site (I know I'm being very simplistic but the truth is the author would have a bigger importance with this new distribution system) and it would leave litle to no space to nowadays middleman.
As for A-team scanlation group, and risking being called a fanboy, I agree with their attitude on this issue. Sure, they are also committing an illegal action, by scanlating the manga series, but they aren't the ones making a huge profit out of it. Hell, if it weren't for the big online reader sites I'm pretty sure many of these artist wouldn't find their titles so easily around the internet and yet we see someone like Prozess (or what's his name) calling me a hypocrite while he supports an online reading site (batoto)... how ironic is that? He is supporting what's basically killing the profit of the authors... oh, the irony...
» shinshuu on February 12th, 2012, 8:59pm
What's the point of complaining when the mission to promote these manga had already been accomplished years ago for this manga. And frankly, this is the same as with the entertainment industry, mangaka and publisher aren't making enough. Many mangaka are dirt poor or doing it part time only.
» PROzess on February 13th, 2012, 4:00am
Ignoring them and going the pirate way isn't the right way.
If everyone would do that in real life with any topic, society would crumble.
» Li7hium on February 13th, 2012, 5:14am
And to answer directly to what you said, if I'm not satisfied with their quality I stop reading that series. If I end up liking it though that means I'll be buying the manga volumes that get released anyway.
And your sense of society amuses me to be honest. "Piracy is bad. Stop piracy." you say. But then, some posts above you mention you are a translator for a scanlating group.. Now that I think about it, who started calling a certain someone hypocrite?
» jrdragon2003 on February 13th, 2012, 4:08am
Online readers are not really a problem, well the idea at least, if it comes from the companies that own rights to the manga. I've seen the concept work for the American comic industry (yes I said American comics with characters like Batman, Spider-Man, Superman, and such on a manga site), especially since print is still struggling. They've been working on converting themselves on having online releases for pretty much the same price a comic would be sold by, which can range from $2 to $5 (very rarely $5, mostly up to $3). I've yet to see any problems from DC or Marvel cause of it, or that I know of. It just shows companies need to grow with the times, but when you have easily accessable content owned by those said companies, it hinders the process. That's why it was better when scans were more underground and harder to get to.
Well hopefully my rant was understandable...
» [][][] on February 12th, 2012, 12:40pm
And wow to all these philosophy talk.
I guess adult have their reasoning. But i guess n i hope i wont turn into 1.
*well, onto my next manga to read*
» Baniita on February 12th, 2012, 3:34pm
I own too much from VIZ. I can never trust their translations to be accurate, their SFXs are hideous (I've always preferred Del Rey's way of labeling them), and they fcuking /blacked out/ the lesbian/gay henge in Naruto. Seriously, they taint the original so much, and their prices are ridiculously higher.
Mangastream's D.Gray-Man scanlations were the only trustworthy and good quality ones. I own every volume from VIZ, despite the quality.
They're a bunch of cowards, honestly. And eff it. They only take snail mail. What the blast furnace is up with that.
» uzumakiwalid on February 12th, 2012, 5:14pm
Blame that to censoring
» dosetsu on February 12th, 2012, 3:45pm
» thevampirate on February 12th, 2012, 4:56pm
» Li7hium on February 13th, 2012, 5:21am
"At the very least they should be going after the aggregators not the small groups who dont profit off their licenses." <- I can't also understand this. The big profits are being made from online reading sites but those seem to be untouchable (mangafox has been around for how long?).
» saisais on February 12th, 2012, 5:44pm
» catandmouse on February 12th, 2012, 6:40pm
I've bought some titles from VIZ, some they did an ok job on, like with Beauty Pop and Nightmare Inspector, they left the honorifics, but then with Natsume's Book of Friends, they dropped the honorifics, and that annoys me. I hope they leave the honorifics in Loveless or I'll be really pissed.
On the other hand, there have been countless groups working on Bleach over the years and I'm sure one will rise to the occasion.
» gaara877 on February 13th, 2012, 12:04am
I hope Mangastream can still scan a new manga and make that manga famous.
Like this manga [URL="http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=73271" ]Ino Atama Gargoyle [/URL]
For One piece, Naruto, Bleach, I think we can still read at mangahere, mangafox, mangareader. Don't worry. If you still can't read it, just buy it, simple. I wonder how many year we read it free. huhuhu
P.S : I still wait manga like One Piece, Bleach and Naruto or manga like Dragon Ball, but there are still no manga like it. I think, I have to wait 10 more years.
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