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Manga Poll
What sexist trope in manga bothers you the most?
Patronizing "but you're a girl!" statement
Objectification
Falling in love with their rapist
"All women are..."
Sexual assault/rape portrayed as a joke
Harassment is okay because she's "playing hard to get"
Damsel in distress
Girl solely exists to be a love interest
Jealous, vain, and/or cruel fangirls
Madonna/whore dichotomy
What? Sexism still exists?
 
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News Article
New Poll - Scanlation Anger
This week's poll comes from our member ashi. Of the given choices of scanlation woes, which one angers you the most? Not an exhaustive list, but like I said, just choose from what's given. You're probably annoyed by at least one of them...

You can submit poll ideas here (and try to keep them manga/anime-related)
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903

Previous Poll Results:
Question: If you had an original idea for a story and weren't concerned about money, staff, or personal skill, which medium would be most suitable for your creation?
Choices:
Manga, manhwa, or manhua - votes: 2744 (28.3%)
Western graphic novel - votes: 232 (2.4%)
(Light) novel, book, or short story - votes: 2123 (21.9%)
Live-action movie - votes: 537 (5.5%)
Animated movie - votes: 673 (6.9%)
Live-action TV show - votes: 393 (4.1%)
Animated TV show - votes: 1251 (12.9%)
Game - votes: 1383 (14.3%)
Theatrical play or musical - votes: 74 (0.8%)
Radio show - votes: 20 (0.2%)
Drama cd - votes: 33 (0.3%)
Newspaper cartoon - votes: 32 (0.3%)
Song - votes: 151 (1.6%)
Dance - votes: 56 (0.6%)
There were 9702 total votes.
The poll ended: October 18th 2013

Considering what kind of site this is, no surprises on the winner. But the choice of games got more votes than I would've expected! (I personally chose games too, as I play more video games than I read manga, nowadays)
Posted by lambchopsil on October 19th 6:43am Comments ( 138 )  [ View ]  [ Add ]
Comments

» misc on October 19th, 2013, 12:12am

Uwah this is such a hard poll for me, not because I don't particularly agree with any choice (like sometimes) but because almost all of them annoy me to no end I don't know which one to pick!

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» sidzero on October 19th, 2013, 12:15am

"When you start a series and then find out: Last Release (1000d ago). Completely Scanlated: No" - If you choose this, and this really does piss you off, then isn't that your own fault for not noticing it in the first place? I mean I have a ton of series on my wish list that are like that, and that's the main reason I haven't gotten around to reading any of them yet. It's like... pay more attention, and it won't even be an issue. Unless you're some kind of masochist or something, then, by all means, continue tormenting yourself.

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» darkraiders on October 19th, 2013, 12:28am

What annoy me the most is when i start reading a manga who's still getting scanlated, but stop being scanlated soon after.

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» forgottenone666 on October 19th, 2013, 1:24am

I guess if I'm being honest the only time I really get disappointed is when a series I like gets dropped for whatever reason. Especially when it's a series that is unlike any other series so I can't find anything similar to replace it with.

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» strixflash on October 19th, 2013, 1:28am

Speed scans. They might be a good alternative for series which are not being worked on, but they annoy me when they translate a work which is actively being scanlated in HQ. Speed scans of those works brings a negative image to mangas... sometimes low quality scans of those works makes people think that the manga is bad.

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» PROzess on October 20th, 2013, 8:42am

And why would you care what others think about it?
You, yourself can always choose to read the HQ version and like it.
It shouldn't matter what others say about it.

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» strixflash on October 21st, 2013, 12:43am

Quote from PROzess
And why would you care what others think about it?
You, yourself can always choose to read the HQ version and like it.
It shouldn't matter what others say about it.

Because those people bring negative publicity to the manga... they rate it low or tell others not to read it just because what they read was LQ release instead of HQ. I hate such baseless criticism for the series I enjoy reading ^^

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» yarn on October 19th, 2013, 1:42am

The "No release in the last 2 years" is what makes me do the Darth Vader scream of "NOOOOOO!!!!"

A close second is when a group who says they desperately need more members simultaneously says they're going to take on new series. If they are already stretched thin, why are they taking on more? Well, ultimately they can do what they want. But it just makes me go confused

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» RoxFlowz on October 19th, 2013, 1:56am

Wow, almost everything on this list pisses me off. But the worst is still people making money off scanlations just by uploading the releases of other groups.

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» NightSwan on October 19th, 2013, 2:10am

Wow, I can't vote.
Everything on that list is annoying as hell.

The one that annoys me the least though, is when people nag about the next release, because you can just ignore them.
You can't really do anything about the rest though.

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» PROzess on October 20th, 2013, 8:44am

Nothing can be done?
You can solve more than half of the choices by joining a group and helping out.

You could even start to learn Japanese yourself instead of whining over years how difficult it is.
In the end, it's just excuses for one's own laziness.

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» Perfect1 on October 19th, 2013, 2:24am

That which enrages me the most is the fact that a lot of people somehow for some strange reason feels other people owe them whatever they desire. I mean, are they the kind of people to demand people they meet on the street to lick their shoes or be their personal slave for the rest of their lives? What goes on in their mind? If anyone reading this post is that kind of person then please enlighten me what goes on in your mind.

If it is not clear. I chose "People who ask: "When will the next chapter be released?"".
Which I read as: "People who incessantly whine/threaten: Where the fuck is the next chapter you lazy bitches and no I don't care if it is not out yet in Japan, give me the fucking chapter!""

Btw, just to make it clear. I don't scanlate, I just loathe the mindset of certain people.

I think you may have forgot a choice in the poll.
"When your favorite manga ends prematurely."

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» tactics on October 19th, 2013, 3:03am

Yeah I gotta agree that all of these are irritating. It's a tough one to choose from.

I think, being a scanlator myself, I do find people who ask "When's the next chapter released?" really, really annoying. It'll be released when it's done. Shut up and stop asking.

People making money out of it is also pretty bad. As if we need any more targets painted on our backs.

Ugh I dunno which one to go for. They're all damn annoying...

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» iamssjvash on October 19th, 2013, 3:13am

Ugh.... There are like 3 answers here that are really close for me.... It has to be the toughest poll decision I've made yet.... To be honest I copped out and just randomly chose one of the three, but basically anything that results in a series to stop being scanlated is a doom and gloom scenario in my world....

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» Harimau on October 19th, 2013, 3:41am

Tough question. I picked #4 because it's happened most often (it seems), but #3 is probably more true for me. #2 would apply, but I tend to read a whole cluster of projects from a given group, so there's always something to read. #1 doesn't seem to apply that much anymore, so it's no longer a big deal.

On a related note... Someone PLEASE pick up [m]Tomehane[/m]. sad

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» Nirhtuc on October 19th, 2013, 5:23am

LOL @ "When you start a series and then find out: Last Release (1000d ago). Completely Scanlated: No." Seriously, though, most of these are equally bad. I picked the cease and desist one.

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» nakie08 on October 19th, 2013, 7:54am

"When multiple groups scanlate the same series"
^ this definitely. Specially those who steal other's project when it gets popular. A lot of good mangas aren't translated and some groups are just fighting over the popular ones. So much manpower WASTED just to get ahead and become more popular.

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» blueflor on October 19th, 2013, 8:23am

I wish I could select more than one...

Speed scanlations can rot in hell ;D also bad translators and those who think they can translate because they've been learning Japanese for a month... or they can read the alphabet... or the best part because everyone else is delusional and thinks the translator is awesome because they pump out 231219 scripts a week but it's actually just all BS...

//hate//

Oh I picked those people making money off scanlations. I mean sure asking for donations for manga is fine, but spending it on your xbox? PC biggrin?? f no

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» Perfect1 on October 19th, 2013, 2:08pm

Why? I don't understand.
If you don't like something that isn't perfect then don't read it.

Btw, most of those have popped up because the readers that were too impatient created the need for them so if anything blame the them instead.

And what if a person is a bad translator, why can't he/she use the opportunity to improve by scanlating, what is the harm? He/she might become good in the process and contribute to make those perfect scanlations in the future.

The only instance when I don't like them is when they take on the same project as a HQ group and makes them loose interest in that manga.

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» nightazday on October 19th, 2013, 8:47am

One thing that most pisses me off is what I like to call "the anime bubble." It's when a scanlator decides to pick up a new manga or a manga that hasn't been scanlated for awhile because the anime is currently being released. and then, when the anime is done, and the series's 15 minutes of fame is up, they suddenly drop it whether it was even close to finish or not. Sometimes having jumps in scanlations (something that also pisses me off going from chapter 5 to chapter 20 with the rest not scanlated) because "the other chapters were covered in the anime."

I love when multiple scanlators do the same series. This way you're sure the manga can get scanlated. I wish it happened more often than just the big 3.

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» sujinj523 on October 19th, 2013, 10:04am

Man, all of these annoy the hell out of me but in this order.
1. When you start a series and then find out: Last Release (1000d ago). Completely Scanlated: No
I usually wait until it's completely scanlated but there are some manga that I just have to start reading and hope that some group will pick them up again.
2. When scanlation stops due to a Cease & Desist
Can't be helped but man, so annoying!!!
3. People making money off scanlations
Yeah, just kill the scanlation community won't you? It's like making something grey all the way black.
4. When a good series stops being scanlated because the group closed
5. When a good series stops being scanlated because it's not popular
6. When a group has too many projects and releases are slow for the series you read
7. People who ask: "When will the next chapter be released?"
8. When multiple groups scanlate the same series
9. Speed scanlations

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» quark1020 on October 19th, 2013, 10:15pm

I love this, this is probably the best way to go around this particular poll. No one asked, but here's my list of lesser evil to evil incarnate:

1. Making money of scanlations. If they are doing it legit, being hired by the legal owners of the particular manga, then great job and keep up the good work. Sure, I'll have to pay now, but that's the price I must pay for good quality translation

2. Multiple groups scanlating same series. I'm ignorant to the world behind scanlations and don't know what the big deal is. However, when multiple groups do one manga, there seems to be more hatred in the group's forums than usual, so that sucks.

3. Speed scanlations. Some are crap, but if I love the series a lot, I just can't wait to see the plot continue.

4. Group with too many projects. Sucks that releases are slower, but if the group wants to do that many manga, then who am I to stop them.

5. Leechers whining. As I said before: I do not work in scanlations and I do not create anything that others find good enough to rush me. Still, even I think that's just rude.

6. Starting a dead series. This sucks, but I know better than to start a series that isn't being worked on anymore and isn't licensed.

7. Group closed. Normally, this would fall under number 6, but if it happens suddenly to me, I would be very, very sad. However, I've been lucky enough that a particular series will be picked up by either another group or a splinter faction of the previous.

8. Cease & Desist. If I'm reading a manga that's been licensed online, its either because the manga has been horribly done or the scanlation is hundreds of chapters ahead and pumped out at a faster rate while maintaining quality. I understand that what is being done isn't exactly legal, or morally justified, but come ON! A group of volunteers on their spare time should not be doing a better job than a group of god damned, paid professionals.

9. A good series not being popular. This simply breaks my heart. If its not popular, it will likely never be licensed so I have no way of reading it shy of learning the language. I'll admit, its less of a hate, but I definitely have a stronger emotional reaction.

10. People making money off scanlations. Yes, I know, I mentioned this previously, but this one is the other side of the coin: People stealing others work and selling it as though it was their own, or simply selling their own work without consideration of the legal owners. Both are horrible offenses, casting a very bad light to an already questionable system.

Glad I got that off my chest, sorry for the long post and thanks for reading if you did.

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» mizunosaki on October 19th, 2013, 10:42am

How about when readers feel so entitled to the release that they start to harass the scanlators? I vote for [People who ask: "When will the next chapter be released?"]

But seriously though to address the choices:

[When multiple groups scanlate the same series]
Seriously dude, people scanlate what they want to scanlate. Just because one group has done it doesn't mean that group has the exclusive rights to it. Let them do it, it's no skin off your back.

[When a group has too many projects and releases are slow for the series you read]
Again, people scanlate what they want to scanlate. They want to work on 10 projects? They will work on 10 projects. People have different methods and ways of working. Sometimes just working on 5 projects get boring. And guess what, scanlators do it for fun. If it's not fun anymore, they can quit.

[When a good series stops being scanlated because it's not popular]
This is kinda the opposite spectrum. I think this can be pegged to 'lack of manpower' as in nobody's really interested in doing it. A lot of you have been moaning about maximizing the manpower and not work on the same project with other groups. Can you blame them for focusing their manpower on the popular projects? Make more people happy and all that?

[When a good series stops being scanlated because the group closed]
Shit happens. Life happens. If it's really that great of a series, other groups will pick it up. Sometimes a group closes because it's not rewarding. If you think about the amount of work they put into it and the amount of appreciation they get for it (hint: it's not equal) I can understand why scanlators want to call it quits.

[When you start a series and then find out: Last Release (1000d ago). Completely Scanlated: No]
-points upwards-

[People who ask: "When will the next chapter be released?"]
Look, I totally get that you're DYING to know what happens next. But just in case you don't know, scanlators don't owe you anything. They have real life too. Hobbies stop being hobbies when they get demanding.

[Speed scanlations]
Is this a term for 1 hour scanlation with sloppy translation and editing? Well, it's there because people get so impatient about the next chapter, isn't it? You demand, they provide. Why the complaint? You get to choose two from FAST, GOOD, or CHEAP. Since cheap is non negotiable because it's FREE, then choose between fast or good. Speed Scanlation is obviously the fast one.

[People making money off scanlations]
Every group is different for this, but I do agree that this is basically making money from other people's copyright.

Groups that ask for donations are different though. Donations are for people to show their appreciation, it's not a charge. Donations are for people who acknowledges that there are people who use their resources to make the scanlation available for free, and they appreciate that.

And there you have it. Just got to get that off my chest.

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» SinsI on October 19th, 2013, 12:17pm

When scanlation stops due to a Cease & Desist - and subsequent license stops right where the scanlation ended.

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» GGpX on October 19th, 2013, 12:21pm

My anger comes from not having enough good staff.

[Whoops, not a direct answer to the person above, just pressed the wrong button]

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» hatsumimi99 on October 19th, 2013, 12:34pm

Heh heh, I've been guilty of picking up "too many" projects. Like someone said, it gets boring and lonely as hell for a translator like me to only work on one series. My mind keeps doing somersaults; I need to feed it, feed it, feed it.

I don't mind people asking when the next release will be, but I hate it when they email me personally to tell me that I promised to release something and didn't. (Stuff happens, people. For me, especially, LOTS of stuff happens.)

I guess what pisses me off the most would be people making money off of scanlations. That's just plain dirty. no

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» Transdude1996 on October 19th, 2013, 12:52pm

Option 5 so much. I can stand it when a series hasn't had an update for a year (looking at you ID), but when a series hasn't had a new scanlation release in the last 2 years, you can pretty much bet that it won't get another release ever again.

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» Kina92 on October 19th, 2013, 2:46pm

It's just so sad when you start a series, fall in love with it, then find out that there hasn't been a new scanlation in forever! Or, likewise, that you find a new series that you want to read, but there's only a few chapters released and there hasn't been a new release in circa 1000 days. Very saddening.

It's also horrifying when an awesome series is canceled because of a group closing. TT~TT

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» Galooza on October 19th, 2013, 2:55pm

As an ex-scanlator, definitely getting bombarded with wanting to know when the next chapter of something may be released. You go a couple days later than when a chapter may usually be released and you get flooded. If it's pushing a month or two then I can understand.

As a reader, definitely picking up a series and seeing either 2 years since last release or a release every 2-3 months when all the volumes are out.


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» bibisuki on October 19th, 2013, 3:06pm

What piss me off the most:

- When you start a series and then find out: Last Release (1000d ago). Completely Scanlated: No

- Speed scanlations

- When a good series stops being scanlated because the group closed

I can't decide which one irritates me the most. But right now I'm being tortured by:
- Suki Desu Suzuki-kun!!
- Suki tte ii na yo

I don't know when the chapters are going to be released, in Suki Desu Suzuki-kun!!'s case, the manga is already complete as well as [m]Chitose etc[/m], even if they dont catch as much attention as others do, I don't care, I like them. Even when people criticize [m]Chitose etc[/m] I haven't read it, but I will cause I really like YOSHIZUMI Wataru works. Like recently she is working on Marmalade Boy Little which made me so happy. I totally fell in love with her art and her stories.


Kiss kara Hajimaru this was one of my first, but at that time I didn't know it wasn't complete

Only You - Tobenai Tsubasa has so much potential, but nobody would pick it up. It only got 8 volumes and it's complete.

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» lys on October 23rd, 2013, 9:11am

Suki tte Ii na yo is licensed by Kodansha Comics, you know? It'll be published in English soon (first volume next April). They're publishing a volume every two months, so it's a great chance to revisit the beginning of the series you love, and let the publisher know through your purchases that you want them to publish more works like it! Kodansha has said they are definitely watching the sales of this series and My Little Monster (also licensed, coming out in March) to see how shoujo titles do here, and if they sell well (as I really hope they do!!) they will certainly look into publishing more smile

(this is in response to a specific post; i realized after posting that depending on the view it can just show up at the end of the thread looking rather off-topic.)

My sympathies lie with the publishers here. The thing that bothers me most is when a series I'd like to read in English has no chance of being picked up for publication because it's already been entirely or mostly scanlated, and the company doesn't want to risk the expense of publishing a series that "everyone's already read for free." I buy several of my favourite series in Japanese while waiting for the day I might get to have it in English too, but it makes me sad when I see the scanlations get really far into the series because I know that's hurting its chances... (so I'd actually count it as a good thing when the series gets dropped by its group before they finish it).

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» cmertb on October 23rd, 2013, 11:46am

Quote from lys
The thing that bothers me most is when a series I'd like to read in English has no chance of being picked up for publication because it's already been entirely or mostly scanlated, and the company doesn't want to risk the expense of publishing a series that "everyone's already read for free.".

I've never heard this line from publishers. Do you know of any specific examples, from publishers' own mouths?

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» hahhah42 on October 23rd, 2013, 3:21pm

Quote from cmertb
I've never heard this line from publishers. Do you know of any specific examples, from publishers' own mouths?

I'm positive I've heard this at least once before from a publisher, I believe on some anncast. Damned if I can remember which one at this point; it was probably a couple of years ago now...

I thought it may have been Vertical Ed, but I checked through the ones he was on and it didn't seem to be him after all... Although he did claim (rather vaguely) that some mangaka refuse to license their works because of scanners back in 2010 (around the 49 minute mark), which would lead to the same result.

On the other hand, here's a confirmed case of scanlation leading to a licensing in English.

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» mysstris on October 19th, 2013, 3:26pm

Again another poll that I want multi-choice but I chose
When a group has too many projects and releases are slow for the series you read
because it annoys me the most since there is this strange consensus on scanlating that if one group scans, another can't. There are special cases of course but it depends on the scanlator groups.
I hate this one group that has over 100 projects ACTIVE and they still take on new ones!! Because of that, I've refused to read any new projects by this group. It seems so pointless for them to do that. This is beyond just having slow releases. It's more like NO RELEASES

When multiple groups scanlate the same series
I welcome this. translators do things differently depending on the person so you can get a completely different translation depending on the translator and PR.

When a good series stops being scanlated because it's not popular
This is just a terrible excuse for stopping. I rarely encounter this (once in a blue moon) but what annoys me is when a publisher does this. This actually happened to Tokyopop before they came down. They were publishing this one series I was really into and then they stopped. Idk if it's popularity or w/e but seriously, that annoyed the heck out of me.

When a good series stops being scanlated because the group closed
Unfortunate but here's to hoping another group picks it up! It doesn't piss me off b/c it just might mean that people have their lives to live.

When you start a series and then find out: Last Release (1000d ago). Completely Scanlated: No
it's annoying but it doesn't piss me off unless it's a group like the one I mentioned having over 100 projects. Other than that, it might mean the group is inactive/closed. And because of this possibility, recently I've been more inclined to search for completed mangas to read. Of course there are exceptions such as some of the more popular mangas that are being scanlated today but other than those, I try to go for more completed now.

People who ask: "When will the next chapter be released?"
I hate it when people do that too!! but people who ask are usually noobs and don't know much about the scanlating world and the fact that this is real people who have their own lives doing this in their own "free" time.

Speed scanlations
If it's good quality like the speed scanning of Aizen-sensei who did Choukakou and another series, then I'm good.

When scanlation stops due to a Cease & Desist
Well they cant' do much about it. It sucks but it's better than getting in trouble legally.

People making money off scanlations
one of the most irksome things about aggregate sites like MF and all of NOEZ's sites. But what annoys me more about that is that people remain ignorant of sites like MF and think that they do all of the work.

People who ask for donations....I'm not too sure I like that idea. If you look at Sura's place, sura doesn't ask for donations at all and she buys TWO issues of the magazine that she scans from. She also has been doing this for quite a long time, 1998 is when she started scanlating/founded Janime. I have more appreciation and respect for Sura because of that since she's paying out of pocket but yeah...idk I guess it's a hopeful investment. (hopeful in the sense that you hope the manga you enjoy will be the manga they use the money for)

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» Sakuya on October 19th, 2013, 3:59pm

Needs an "all the above" option.

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» greydrak on October 22nd, 2013, 10:15am

Agreed, I was looking through the options and this was the only one that fit, they all piss me off, and they all tie for most annoying parts of scanlations.

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» psycho-shocker on October 19th, 2013, 4:44pm

When multiple groups scanlate the same series.
It's really is stupid, why don't they join project? Or the later group start scanlate other series? The selfishness of human know no bounds mad

It's just wasting time and effort. Except the previous group's work is in bad quality (I'm fine with low quality, though) and the later group pick the series to fix it.

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» jj11103 on October 19th, 2013, 9:31pm

Woah, definitely surprised that the "When you start a series and then find out: Last Release (1000d ago). Completely Scanlated: No" option is leading in votes. I was expecting something like "People who ask: 'When will the next chapter be released'" or "People making money off scanlations" to have more since checking the last release date before reading something isn't exactly hard.

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» hahhah42 on October 20th, 2013, 12:16am

Quote from jj11103
I was expecting something like "People who ask: 'When will the next chapter be released'" or "People making money off scanlations" to have more since checking the last release date before reading something isn't exactly hard.

Don't forget that a lot of people - even among visitors to this site - prefer online readers to downloading, and a series dropped by the scanlators long ago may still be a recent upload on any given online reader.

As for my choice, I was deliberating between the "not popular" and "group closed" options, and eventually settled upon the "not popular." Although depending upon how/why the group closes, it could easily go the other way.

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» whitespade on October 19th, 2013, 9:47pm

I choose 'When multiple groups scanlate the same series' because it tied closely to 'When a good series stops being scanlated because it's not popular' and 'When a good series stops being scanlated because the group closed'. some manga have lots of scanlator and i just feel so sorry for the manga that dont get scanlated, cos nobody will know them.

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» Lanz16 on October 19th, 2013, 11:13pm

This is quite hard for me to choose 1 for this poll.
I have lots of issues regarding to the scanslators like for example on the choices:


When you start a series and then find out: Last Release (1000d ago). Completely Scanlated: No

The good example for this is Itazura Na Kiss (The last time I check this series was 5 years ago, and still haven't released new chapter and eventually, the group closed for good), YAWARA! (I really LOVE this series until the chapter releases becomes ridiculously slow and I lost my interest reading it), Jig + Zag (Same scenario as YAWARA!), Flat (AOGIRI Natsu) and Yasuko to Kenji (One of my few Mangas that I truly love and the group is already closed/lack-of-interest-to-scanslate which makes me mad the most) and a-lot more!


When a group has too many projects and releases are slow for the series you read

I don't like some scanslation group that had a tons of projects and when my favorite series that I'm reading there keeps hanging for, worse, a long period of time.


When a good series stops being scanlated because it's not popular
Well, this issue is hard to ignore. Especially when there are lot of people are waiting for it.
Instead of "It's not popular", it should be "They lost their interest to scanslating it".


When a good series stops being scanlated because the group closed
This rarely happens to me.

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» lys on October 23rd, 2013, 9:25am

Itazura na Kiss is also published in English by DMP. They've released 9 volumes, but the volumes are either 1.5 or 2 volumes of the original (they're based on one of the Japanese bunko, I think, so total will be 14vol?), so they're way ahead of the scanned releases anyway.

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» KaoriNite on October 19th, 2013, 11:21pm

I think what annoys me the most is when the series I read are released slowly solely because a group has too many projects. In some cases, the series has already been completed in Japan for more than a year, but for some reason, the group can only release a chapter every 3-4 months. I can understand if the people are busy with their every day lives (school, work, etc), but if its simply because they want to try doing 50 projects at once then this is just ridiculous.

I didn't select the "Last Release (1000d ago). Completely Scanlated: No" option because I always check before I start reading to see if the story has been completed. I actually try to only read manga that is already completed because I never know if a group is going to be able to finish a series. I think most of the series listed on this site are unfinished and have been dropped by their scanlators for one reason or another.

Also, I don't get annoyed by people who ask: "When will the next chapter be released?" If I wasn't lazy and actually bothered to write to scanlators, I would be one of these people. In a case where its been months or even years since a chapter has been released, why can't I ask the scanlator what is happening with the manga? I feel like if you decide to take on a job you should try to complete that job as best as you can.

I also don't get annoyed when multiple groups do the same series. This means that the series has a better chance of actually getting completed.

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» arouraleona on October 20th, 2013, 12:07am

Profit. That's what draws the law and takes it from being a way to access material that non-Japanese speakers would have problems getting to, to something that's going to shut down the whole system. I can put up with slow/irregular releases of a project. There's always more to read. Unless someone's set fire to the whole process. Then we have problems.

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» icarusbride on October 20th, 2013, 12:53am

My anger isn't listed! My anger is people (readers, leechers) acting like they are entitled to scanlations, complaining about the speed/quality/etc of something they are getting for free at the time and money expense of volunteers. Stop complaining and go learn Japanese yourself, whiny babies!

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» PROzess on October 20th, 2013, 8:56am

賛成!!!

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» mysstris on October 21st, 2013, 2:45pm

Wouldn't that kind of go under people asking when the next chapter will be released? If you think about it, that ties together implicitly what you've said. I think people should just be glad that it's still an active project but I think the way you're going about it is wrong. We don't have all the time in the world to just sit and learn a new language--how to speak it, how to read it and how to write it. especially when Japan uses three or four different writing styles. What you should be stressing on is that we have our own lives just like complaining freeloaders do and we're not all hunched over a laptop 24/7 cranking out scan after scan. We're human, humans are meant to live. Plus, if they complain enough, maybe they'll see the consequences of having done so i.e. the scanlator just quits.

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» PROzess on October 22nd, 2013, 6:26am

So translators are not humans, since they managed to learn a language along with their every day life?

I always knew we were divine beings, but thanks for confirming it!

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» Fantasier on October 20th, 2013, 4:24am

I was surprised not seeing 'people making money off scanlation' leading (that's the one I chose). I don't care if any release is out late. Scanlation is free of charge; I don't think I should get angry if something is unscanlated or dropped.

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» mysstris on October 20th, 2013, 7:52am

You see not many people know about the making money part. They care more about releases since they're "free of charge". Also you should be specific because there are two ways of interpreting this--aggregate sites like MF or groups actually asking for a salary. most groups clearly ask for "donations" but I'm not too sure about my position on that

Also about the option where it says "people asking when the next release is" that was just so randomly stuck in there. I felt like most of the options were related pretty well to the scanlators directly or the scanlating world. People asking when the next release is, I feel like that's asking for people who have or do scanlate to choose that option.

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» Fantasier on October 20th, 2013, 8:22am

Hmm, I think I mean 'anyone wanting profit from scans'. I hate the way aggregators, probably except Batoto, make money from scanlation. I understand that scanlators need some money to pay for their hosting and all, so I don't mind them asking for donation or putting ads. Still, if they were to make profit from those, or any methods, I wouldn't be happy with them.

This reply is off-topic here though.

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» mysstris on October 21st, 2013, 2:55pm

well since you mean aggregate sites...well I guess it's because it doesn't directly affect readers than it does affect scanlators. For me, I probably didn't choose it because of that very reason. I mean it is important to be aware of it and boycott them but it's not enough to get me pissed off i suppose. I get that it isn't fair to scanlators and most importantly the artists/authors of the scanlated works but what can we do other than not use it? Millions of other people access those sites with ignorance.

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» Kurapica on October 20th, 2013, 8:15am

I chose the most popular option too. I hate it when the scnalations for the series I started reading is basically dead. After a 1000 days there's very little chance that someone will pick it up.

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» PROzess on October 20th, 2013, 8:52am

The choices can be divided in 3 categories:
1) The reader is lazy (2, 3, 4, 5)
2) Official Publisher Interference (8, 9)
3) Scanlator POV (1, 6, 7)

The reader himself can solve half of these problems himself as 1) shows.
Want to read a manga, but slow/no scanlation?
Then fucking start an own group.
I did the same. I studied Japanese for 3 years and then started to scanlate a project that had been abandoned. Why can't you do so yourself? Japanese is difficult? Oh please, dont kid me.

At the end of the day, reader are just selfish pricks that are too lazy to even lift a single finger (except for browsing the online reader) for their hobby.

Yes, this post was written from the POV of a very annoyed scanlator smile

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» T1 on October 20th, 2013, 9:04am

Stop doing that. You'll make them sad. The readers that is.

The readers will either cry, call you a hypocrite, tell you to stop (I told you hentai scanlations is a better community.They only want to fap), flame you etcetc BUT THEY WON'T WORK FOR THEIR TITLE.

It's their right to get the releases for free

We...sorry, I mean scanlators have for years screamed about mangafox and NOEZ and how it should leave bad taste in the readers mouth if they went there....but did it work? No. They couldn't do the easiest thing out of all there.
Now the dude got pocket pirates and pocket ninja and otakushop (saying something about fair use to sell counterfeit products?) and who knows what more out on the net. It a business running illegally in china using free scanlation work. All this is done by using the readers who just want their releases and nothing else.

So expecting them to actually work for their manga releases, lololololololololololol please. I know you aren't that naive.

You know what the best thing about all this is? Only a few percentage of the readers do actually come to mu anymore because of online readers, and much less do check this part of the forum.

This poll was stupid from the beginning. 3 different demographs D:

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» PROzess on October 20th, 2013, 9:40am

+1

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» Perfect1 on October 21st, 2013, 12:18pm

Aren't the only people that frequent mangafox and NOEZ the ones that don't even come here anyway and subsequently don't know about the atrocities?

I mean who in their right mind would pay for something that can just as easily be found on another non-profit manga site.

Although obviously alot of "online reader" people come here and vote since the most stupid of the choices is in the lead.

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» T1 on October 22nd, 2013, 6:56am

@1

Idiots tell other idiots about that site.

@2

It's free. The problem is that Mangafox (owned by NOEZ company) and other online readers are earning on the readers click on each single page on their reader. This is cool enough...just illegal. Plus it puts scanlators who are already in the gray zone, totally in bad light with the legal world. Also the problem is when NOEZ mainly takes those money and use them for making games and counterfeit shops which people think are legal and earn money on selling stuff.
So the profit comes to them without the readers knowing. Those who knows (talking about online readers fanbase) don't case since they just want their release.

@3
Yes but the question is do they read the forum, do they care? No!
They motto is: Well if some group gets banned, close their doors or gets angry and drop the title....then someone else will do it. Otherwise there's lots of titles to pick from.

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» Perfect1 on October 22nd, 2013, 11:33am

@3 Reminds me of a comment I read from someone stating that he believed that he could be as horrible as he wanted towards scanlators since in the instance that they gave up working on the manga some other scanlator would within a very short time pick up that title.

I just don't understand why it seems like some people feel that they are more entitled to make demands on something that is free than for something he/she would pay for.

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» doki-doki-kimochi on October 20th, 2013, 12:52pm

Quote from PROzess
The choices can be divided in 3 categories:
1) The reader is lazy (2, 3, 4, 5)
2) Official Publisher Interference (8, 9)
3) Scanlator POV (1, 6, 7)

The reader himself can solve half of these problems himself as 1) shows.
Want to read a manga, but slow/no scanlation?
Then fucking start an own group. ...


Um, no disrespect or anything as I myself am studying Japanese as well, but some people just don't have that opportunity. Please don't patronize them for not being able to go and learn Japanese, start their own groups, etc.

It's also very annoying that you call readers selfish pricks. If you view them this way, don't even make a group and release anything. Not to be ungrateful, but scanlators translate and release manga in because they want to share with others but they can't have access to, and readers are in turn grateful for this and support scanlation groups while not being needy/whiny. Obviously this it the ideal relationship, but there ARE people who feel this way.

Some scanlators may view this poll as an insult/disrespect, but truly the majority of people view scanlators in a good light and are grateful to them, but because there lies in fault in everything, we're just taking a poll on how people feel about these faults. Really, if you wanted to you could make a poll about what pisses you off the most about readers, but at the end of the day it's just a poll.

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» ikore on October 20th, 2013, 1:19pm

Quote from doki-doki-kimochi
Um, no disrespect or anything as I myself am studying Japanese as well, but some people just don't have that opportunity. Please don't patronize them for not being able to go and learn Japanese, start their own groups, etc.

It's also very annoying that you call readers selfish pricks. If you vie ...


If you got time to read manga, there's time to learn Japanese. If you're studying it yourself then you should know about the vast amount of resources available on the internet. Do note that I'm referring to readers who get annoyed by the reasons mentioned in this poll. If you can put up with it, sure go ahead and just read the scanlations.

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» doki-doki-kimochi on October 20th, 2013, 2:46pm

Manga is just a hobby for a lot of people, not something that they can invest tons of time in.

And if you're studying a language at all, you'll know that you can't learn it and become fluent/well-versed just by reading resources off the internet. You need practice by living in the country or having formal instruction.

I am a reader that gets annoyed by the reasons mentioned in this poll, obviously, because I voted on it myself. But that doesn't mean I can't overlook these facts. It's the same thing either way whether you're a scanlator or a reader.

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» sophie0 on October 20th, 2013, 3:05pm

I disagree, I think if all you want to do is read in that language, self-study is definitely an option. It's a lot of work, sure, but it's not impossible.
And while I don't think people who read scanlations should just learn Japanese, I agree that if they have time to complain about scanlations not being fast or good enough or whatever, they could use that time to learn Japanese. Or learn some manners wink

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» PROzess on October 21st, 2013, 4:08am

Quote from doki-doki-kimochi
Manga is just a hobby for a lot of people, not something that they can invest tons of time in.

And if you're studying a language at all, you'll know that you can't learn it and become fluent/well-versed just by reading resources off the internet. You need practice by living in the country or havin ...


No, you don't need to live in the country itself. Maybe if you're after a job in that field, but if you're learning japanese in self-study for manga, then it's pretty much feasible in 2-3 years.
Trust me, I did that.
Again, it are just excuses.

To begin with, my argument was directed at the people who complain about the release speed.
If you are content with the situation at it is and patiently can wait for the release, then there's no need to learn japanese yourself. Just enjoy reading.
My point is, that some leecher whine for years "where's the next release" and if they had used the time instead for studying, they would be at a level where they can read now.

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» doki-doki-kimochi on October 21st, 2013, 5:53pm

One, I said that if you want to be fluent/well-versed, then what you need to do is have formal instruction or live in the country of origin itself. Perhaps it doesn't take as much time or resources in order to learn enough Japanese for manga, but it's not something you can just ask anyone to do. Some people don't have the time (or resources) to do such things, which is why they rely on scanlation groups to do it for them. Even saying 2-3 years is a lot, and I know that even if you study for 2-3 years your skills as a translator will still be rough, especially under self-study. Studying Japanese in class for 2 years has not given me the qualifications to start translating manga, simply because I don't know the ins and outs of the Japanese language/culture as well as I'd like to yet, and this isn't because my instructor or my studying skills are poor.

Two, don't backtrack on what you said. Perhaps you implied that your comment was directed at people who complain about releases, but it still remains the fact that you said, "At the end of the day, reader are just selfish pricks that are too lazy to even lift a single finger (except for browsing the online reader) for their hobby." It's not only rude, but also untrue.

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» PROzess on October 22nd, 2013, 6:32am

Take a look at this thread.
EVERYONE is making excuses about "we have a life" "we dont have the resource". The fuck? Are you living in some cave in the mountains?
You always CAN find a way and the time to learn Japanese, but most of the people are lazy. But all they ever do is find excuses.
Do you think I'm some rich snob that has all the time in the world? Heck no. Still, I managed to set time aside for studying. Now stop telling me that you can't do the same.
Therefore it's not untrue that it applies to all readers.
Either way, the rudeness reader direct at scanlators can't even be compared with this.

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» T1 on October 22nd, 2013, 7:04am

Wow...I mustn't have a life when you think about the languages I already speak...

Sure I'm not fluent but do you need to be fluent to read or speak? O.o
What a funny thing to say.

If you want you can. If you don't want to you can't. Now if you don't want to admit that you don't want to then in comes the excuses.

Last thing...a hobby is something you use time on. If you can use time on reading manga then you can use time on learning how to read in Japanese so you can read your manga. That's a hobby. Kinda like climbing mountains (I just finished watching Yama no Susume ) where you just don't start at the top but slowly start with finding out how the gear works, what you need to climb the mountain and practice on small mountains and climbing walls..aye it's still a hobby but you do something before you are capable of doing it. If that was too hard an example then I shall pick an easier one: Playing chess. You learn the rules before you play and practice to get better so you can play against stronger opponent.
Same thing with Japanese and untranslated manga...you should know what I'm referring to since you study the language. ^^

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» KaoriNite on October 20th, 2013, 10:56pm

If we all had the ability, time, and resources to learn Japanese there wouldn't be a need for scanlations in the first place. And if you really hate all that comes with scanlating (the ungrateful readers, etc) then just stop doing it. You can just translate the manga for yourself since you have the ability to, and you won't have to deal with the readers that you hate so much.

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» nakie08 on October 21st, 2013, 12:10am

Quote from KaoriNite
if you really hate all that comes with scanlating (the ungrateful readers, etc) then just stop doing it.
What kind of backwards suggestion is that? Basically every scanlator has moments of frustration towards leachers. Specially at times when real life is being a bitch, which results to late releases, which results to angry leachers. Have a little understanding please. Don't just randomly say "quit if you hate it so much" just because it sounded like a good argument. Weigh the gravity of what you are saying first. If every scanlator felt that way and all quits what happens to your little paradise of manga reading? I'm really sorry for venting. But what you said, I really resent it. Coming from someone mooching off of others I RESENT it. Seriously, it's like biting the hand that feeds you, then telling them to stop feeding you. What kind of logic is that?

Anyway, you can help with more ways than just translating. If you're a native english speaker, proofread. Proofreading 1 chapter won't even take you an hour. I'm sure that if you have time reading manga, you surely have time for that. If you know basic photo editing, typeset or clean. A couple of months ago I even saw someone in the recruiting section offering to help moderate a scanlation team's forum. It's really easy to learn the basics too, even if you don't have prior experience in photo editing etc. There are TONS of materials out there that you can learn from. Tutorials, forum threads, video tutorials on youtube. Some scanlation group even offer to TEACH YOU how to. Point is, all it really comes down to is how much you want to help.

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» KaoriNite on October 21st, 2013, 12:56am

Quote from nakie08
Quote from KaoriNite
if you really hate all that comes with scanlating (the ungrateful readers, etc) then just stop doing it.
What kind of backwards suggestion is that? Basically every scanlator has moments of frustration towards leachers. Specially at times when real life is being a bitch, which results to late release ...


for me, this statement is similar to all the scanlators who have been writing "if you have a problem with the scanlations then you should do them yourself or stop complaining". it goes both ways. if you have a problem with reactions of some of the readers, then realize that you have no obligation to this job for them. and yeah, i'm one of those readers who don't help out, but hopefully i haven't been one of those ungrateful readers who complain about every detail of scanlating to the point that scanlators want to quit.

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» Galooza on October 21st, 2013, 3:15pm

You're completely ignoring the plus sides making your comment one-sided. Though there are plenty of ungrateful leechers, there are plenty of grateful ones also. We don't just want to up and disappoint them due to the others. Plus, this may just be me, but I honestly enjoyed scanlating. I did every job in the field except translate (except on one instance) and learning how to clean scans better, typeset better, etc, was honestly fun for me. Redrawing not so much, but ya. I'm not criticizing you for thinking that way if you want, but why should scanlators have to give up the pros of doing it because they might lament one downside? At least for me, I like to be able to rant, whether anyone reads and acknowledges it or not doesn't bother me.

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» KaoriNite on October 21st, 2013, 5:44pm

I appreciate this comment.

I was making my one-sided comment (only about ungratefuls) because that's what the other scanlators were focusing on. None of them were saying "I love what I do, I just wish this one thing would change." Maybe that message was hidden between the lines. But all I kept reading was "There are too many rude, inconsiderate, ungrateful readers and I don't think they deserve to read what I produce". And if you really feel that you aren't being appreciated and you no longer like what you do, I think the only way you'll be happy is if you quit. Because at the end of the day, you aren't going to be able to force every reader to appreciate what you do, let alone contribute to scanlating.

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» cmertb on October 21st, 2013, 6:26pm

Why so drastic? There are other things scanlators can do to make themselves happy short of quitting. For example, drop manga with annoying leechers. I've done it once, and it was quite satisfying. When some leechers whined, I simply pointed out that the fact that they were too lazy to post "thanks" on releases, but not too lazy to post their whines when we dropped it. I think they got the message. Hopefully, it will teach them to be more considerate with the next scanlator unlucky enough to pick up that project.

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» KaoriNite on October 21st, 2013, 9:37pm

This is a good solution, especially if its only one particular manga that's the problem. Or maybe if there are particular leechers you don't like, you can form a group that bans those people from reading your scans.

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» nakie08 on October 21st, 2013, 6:29pm

Quote from KaoriNite
I was making my one-sided comment (only about ungratefuls) because that's what the other scanlators were focusing on. None of them were saying "I love what I do, I just wish this one thing would change." Maybe that message was hidden between the lines. But all I kept reading was "There are too many rude, inconsiderate, ungrateful readers and I don't think they deserve to read what I produce". And if you really feel that you aren't being appreciated and you no longer like what you do, I think the only way you'll be happy is if you quit. Because at the end of the day, you aren't going to be able to force every reader to appreciate what you do, let alone contribute to scanlating.
And based off of what you DIDN"T read you suggest that scanlators QUIT? If you haven't done any scanlating at all then you wouldn't really know would you? Do not make an assumption about something you don't know and think it is right, let alone force it upon someone else. If you're the type of person to give up on something you love just because it gets hard sometimes then so be it. But please don't assume that everyone is like you. And I suggest not trying to spread it around while you're at it.

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» KaoriNite on October 21st, 2013, 9:50pm

Quote from nakie08
And based off of what you DIDN"T read you suggest that scanlators QUIT?

Yes, I can only make suggestions based on what people write. I'm not a mind-reader.

Quote from nakie08
If you haven't done any scanlating at all then you wouldn't really know would you?

My opinions may mean less because I'm not a scanlator, but everyone is able to have opinion. Especially since the topic of this forum is based from the opinion of the manga READER (with the exception of the option "People who ask: "When will the next chapter be released?")

Quote from nakie08
Do not make an assumption about something you don't know and think it is right, let alone force it upon someone else

Sorry, was I forcing my opinions on someone? In a debate, you present your side and hope to convince the other party, but debating is not "forcing". Afterall, I can't make you, or really anyone else for that matter, do anything they don't want to.

Quote from nakie08
If you're the type of person to give up on something you love just because it gets hard sometimes then so be it.

And as I said in the statement before, I was making those suggestions because there are so many people only complaining about how much they hate being unappreciated for their scans, without mentioning that they find anything enjoyable in what they do.

Quote from nakie08
But please don't assume that everyone is like you. And I suggest not trying to spread it around while you're at it.

Isn't the basis of these forums to talk about your ideas with other people. I don't know where in my previous posts I ever suggested that everyone is like me or should be like me. And am I only supposed to to make suggestions that I know everyone else will agree with?

Edit: and at this point I'm just going to ban myself from talking with you since our conversations aren't doing anything productive. sorry for taking up so much space in the topic with this B.S.

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» nakie08 on October 22nd, 2013, 12:13am

Quote from KaoriNite
Yes, I can only make suggestions based on what people write. I'm not a mind-reader.
Sir, I think you got it wrong. You MAY be magic since you based your suggestion on what WASN'T written here, not the other way around. Read the sentence again and realize you twisted the argument.
Quote from KaoriNite
My opinions may mean less because I'm not a scanlator, but everyone is able to have opinion. Especially since the topic of this forum is based from the opinion of the manga READER (with the exception of the option "People who ask: "When will the next chapter be released?")
What I was referring to is the fact that you just ASSUMED that scanlators are unhappy with what they do. Is that something you would know for sure as a leecher who's never been to the other side? Maybe you ARE magic after all. You twisted the argument here too.
Quote from KaoriNite
Sorry, was I forcing my opinions on someone? In a debate, you present your side and hope to convince the other party, but debating is not "forcing". Afterall, I can't make you, or really anyone else for that matter, do anything they don't want to.
No, you weren't debating a side at all. You were basically just telling scanlators to quit whining or quit scanlating. Another twist here.
Quote from KaoriNite
And as I said in the statement before, I was making those suggestions because there are so many people only complaining about how much they hate being unappreciated for their scans, without mentioning that they find anything enjoyable in what they do.
Here lay in my sole point. It answers what I've written in the first three arguments, which you didn't really address with your reply. You took the fact that scanlators hate being unappreciated, dream t up a reality where scanlators work like slave laborers, forced into servitude, believed it was true, and suggested that they quit. That was my sole point. Breaking up my argument into sentences is confusing it.
Quote from KaoriNite
Isn't the basis of these forums to talk about your ideas with other people. I don't know where in my previous posts I ever suggested that everyone is like me or should be like me. And am I only supposed to to make suggestions that I know everyone else will agree with?
"If you're the type of person to give up on something you love just because it gets hard sometimes then so be it. But please don't assume that everyone is like you. And I suggest not trying to spread it around while you're at it." That's what I wrote. You broke it off. So, are you that type of person? Someone who gives up when it gets hard? Because going by your comments you are assuming everyone is. And yes it is up to you to spread that lazy-ass mentality, but I was just asking you not to spread it to scanlators, because that will surely be the doom of the manga community.

You confused every little thing I said. You even broke it up into sentences. Of course you'll miss the point that way. I felt like all I did here is explain my last post and had nothing to debate on. To be more clear I will explain what pissed me off so much so you get it okay? Scanlators work VERY hard jobs just to give the leechers something to read. Leechers take that for granted and just selfishly ask for more. But that I get since I TOO am a leecher of other scanteams work. I know the feeling of wanting more manga to read. What I HATE is after all those hard work, here you come telling scanlators to "quit whining or quit scanlating". I know that's not what you said exactly, but that is how I read it. That's a whole new level of ungratefulness.
As I said before, The next time you decide jump into an argument, weigh the gravity of what you are saying. To the mods, sorry for taking up so much space. I, too, am out of here.

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» PROzess on October 22nd, 2013, 6:36am

It's not like I'm doing scanlation for the appreciation from the readers.
(For the most time) I work on series I like myself, but even then, if tons of people come to you saying "MOAAAA", it gets annoying.
I don't want your thanks, I don't want your money, I just want to scanlate in peace and complaining disturbs that peace.

Thanks are always welcomed, but not getting any isn't something that makes me quit. Complains on the other hand are a major reason to quit.

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» T1 on October 22nd, 2013, 7:10am

"ability" lol please...time you can always make and resources are all over the net. Ability is overrated. You know what a genius is? One who uses all his time with something specific and easier pass others...of course, the dude used most time on the stuff. -_-;;;;; excuses excuses for not learning it.

No the reason why everyone doesn't speak Japanese is that everyone don't got an interest in it. It would be like China...1,351 billion people speaking Chinese. Not because of ability, time and resources but cuz they need to do so. Otherwise they would have a big problem living in China.

I agree with "there's no need to translate for people if they complain" reason. Still explain this to me: If I stop because of one tard, what about the rest of the readers who love the title?

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» KaoriNite on October 22nd, 2013, 7:32am

Maybe learning a language is relatively easy for you, but its not the same for everyone. So yes, ability does play a part. No, you don't need to be a genius to learn a language, but I think we all know that people's skills and talents vary. And at the end of the day, should everyone who wants to read manga have to learn Japanese? If this is what you believe, then why have scanlations, or the official translations?

Quote from T1
No the reason why everyone doesn't speak Japanese is that everyone don't got an interest in it. It would be like China...1,351 billion people speaking Chinese. Not because of ability, time and resources but cuz they need to do so. Otherwise they would have a big problem living in China.


You can't compare the two. Learning your native language is completely different from learning a second language.

Quote from T1
I agree with "there's no need to translate for people if they complain" reason. Still explain this to me: If I stop because of one tard, what about the rest of the readers who love the title?


I'm surprised people are treating this as a completely novel idea. I've had manga that I'd been reading be dropped because the scanlators were so frustrated with ungrateful readers. Yes, they punished every one for what a few did.

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» PROzess on October 22nd, 2013, 11:44am

No one says that you HAVE to learn japanese.

The argument is: If you have time to complain or make excuses, use that time to study.
Period.

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» KaoriNite on October 22nd, 2013, 6:56pm

Quote from T1
If you can use time on reading manga then you can use time on learning how to read in Japanese so you can read your manga.


Quote from ikore
If you got time to read manga, there's time to learn Japanese.


Their argument is different from yours.

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» cmertb on October 22nd, 2013, 7:26pm

And all of their arguments are correct, even if different. What was your argument again? smile

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» KaoriNite on October 22nd, 2013, 7:52pm

It's more of a question: If we all should just learn Japanese then why do we need scanlations?

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» cmertb on October 22nd, 2013, 9:02pm

Quote from KaoriNite
It's more of a question: If we all should just learn Japanese then why do we need scanlations?

Obviously, because you haven't learned Japanese. Once you do, you won't need them.

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» PROzess on October 23rd, 2013, 1:38am

Isn't that the ultimate goal?
I mean, what's so good about being dependent on a third party for your hobby?

Lots of problems would disappear if just everyone knew Japanese^^

But that's an utopia anyway, so we just ask the people for patience, to no avail-.-

Translators dedicated years of learning japanese and then dedicated their time to bring you guys more manga, yet most comments consists of "want more" "want faster"....

I just want to do something about the ignorance of people, even though it's seems impossible.

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» PROzess on October 23rd, 2013, 1:35am

Now you have to keep in mind what the poll is about.

It asks what is "annoying" about scanlation and as pointed out previously, half of the "problems" can be solved by the reader itself by becoming a scanlator himself.
So the first argument was to use the time to study instead of complaining, but then the focus fell onto studying Japanese and people made excuses about having no time, thus shifting the argument to "Time to read = Time to study".

I would prefer if you would read the thread in it's entirety before putting in you're two cents.

Again, if you do not find any of the poll choices "annoying" and can patiently wait for a release, nothing of the above applies to you.

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» KaoriNite on October 22nd, 2013, 6:56pm

Sorry, somehow I double posted.

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» ikore on October 20th, 2013, 12:32pm

It's all very easy. If those things annoy you, just learn Japanese already and you won't have anything to complain about anymore, except maybe people making money off scanlations (which sadly will always be the case with online readers).
"When multiple groups scanlate the same series" Is pretty much bullshit, I (and probably a bunch of others) just scanlate whatever I like. Does someone else does it? So be it, not like anyone has "the right" to scanlate something.
Don't get pissed off for such stupid reasons, if it really pissed you off that much you would do something about it.

... oh and if you need to ask when the next chapter will be out when there's been a release in the past few weeks... you're plainly retarded.

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» cecropiamoth on October 20th, 2013, 2:48pm

"If you got time to read manga, there's time to learn Japanese."

This is really unrealistic. It's like telling someone who likes to watch soccer but can't find it on the tube in the USA to go start a team himself (or move to a soccer-playing country). People have jobs and families. They have to give those first priority. These days jobs are getting ever more demanding. There's very, very little time left for fun and personal interests. Someone who lives in this hectic work world and sets out to learn Japanese MIGHT learn it in, say, 5 years if he could stick with it that long, and didn't give up after falling asleep over the kanji in a few months.

Not to mention that most readers of manga (including me), just aren't interested enough in it to take on THAT big a job.

I think most viewers of manga are very often very grateful for a scanlation. I know I am! It's too bad there's not some convenient way, right there on the aggregation sites, to tell them how grateful we are. Maybe Botato could find a way to make that possible.

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» sophie0 on October 20th, 2013, 3:11pm

I could be wrong, but I think the "then go ahead and learn Japanese reaction" is targeted at people who are annoyed because other people - who invested the time to learn Japanese and make scanlations available- aren't doing things the way they'd like, and in that case, the reaction is justified, imho. No one is saying that everyone should just learn Japanese, just the people who have time to complain or be annoyed.

edit: also, I managed to learn enough Japanese to be able to read manga in about a year. While working full time. It was a lot of work but it was worth it. (Which, again, is not to say everyone should do that, but, well, rather than complaining that no.group was scanlating the manga I wanted to read, I practiced kanji.)

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» PROzess on October 21st, 2013, 4:12am

Quote from cecropiamoth
"If you got time to read manga, there's time to learn Japanese."

This is really unrealistic. It's like telling someone who likes to watch soccer but can't find it on the tube in the USA to go start a team himself (or move to a soccer-playing country). People have jobs and families. They ...


You cant compare learning a language with starting a soccer team-.-
You can perfectly study Japanese bit by bit on a regular basis. You don't need to invest 8hours a day. 1h or even 30min are fine, as long as you keep it up regularly.

I don't know what kind of harsh life you are living that doesnt even allow you to have one free hour in a week for studying japanese-.-
I know plenty of people that succeeded slowly but surely in their studies by dedicating 1-2 hours per week on it. So stop with the excuses.

If you don't want to learn it, it's a different matter, but then you aren't allowed to complain about scanlators, which ultimately is my point.

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» T1 on October 22nd, 2013, 7:20am

Why are you calling football for soccer? Ahhh, you must be American. Anyway, good thing you are. Let me give you an example which I really find quite annoying that it happens in America.
You people are so lazy that you compare learning Japanese with making a "soccer" team that it's ridiculous. It doesn't come as a surprise though. When Chinese students go to USA to study they can't use their own names. Why? cuz you compare the act of being able to pronounce their names with making a "soccer" team so you just don't do it. Instead they are kinda forced to get themself an american name like Racheal or Stephen instead of Xiang or Dam. Well if you can't respect others by using their real names then it's no wonder that learning Japanese is hard when you compare everything with making a "soccer" team. THAT BIG A JOB, EH?!

Being grateful is fine but even if you can't do Japanese there's lots of stuff you can help them with. I'm quite sure you know that translating isn't the only job in a scanlation group. If you do then I'm sure you are nothing but a leecher.

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» KaoriNite on October 22nd, 2013, 7:40am

Quote from T1
When Chinese students go to USA to study they can't use their own names. Why? cuz you compare the act of being able to pronounce their names with making a "soccer" team so you just don't do it. Instead they are kinda forced to get themself an american name like Racheal or Stephen instead of Xiang or Dam. Well if you can't respect others by using their real names then it's no wonder that learning Japanese is hard when you compare everything with making a "soccer" team. THAT BIG A JOB, EH?!


You're getting a bit off topic, but in response to this I'm American and we have tons of foreigners. I've never been any where where they were forced to change their names, In most cases, people change their names on their own because they get tired of people struggling with the pronunciation. Americans themselves often have strange names (you thought Beyonce was a special case?). Most people will try to pronounce others' names as well as they can.

Also, the topic of learning Japanese came up because someone was saying that readers should learn Japanese and then they wouldn't have to complain about the quality and speed of scans. No one ever mentioned that they wouldn't be useful to a scanlation group because they can't read Japanese.

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» aagcnet on October 20th, 2013, 3:46pm

this option: When you start a series and then find out: Last Release (1000d ago). Completely Scanlated: No
its mostly because biggrin this other option: When a good series stops being scanlated because it's not popular

hehehe so we got a winner

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» telepop on October 20th, 2013, 5:47pm

What makes me really angry is when people say OEL's aren't manga and some north americans just make comics to get money. Webcomics, dojinshi, and OEL's can't be on myanimelist. I hate people censoring others. And people doing shitty translations. And anime being so popular when all i like is manga but that's my problem. Okay thank you.

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» Dionaea on October 22nd, 2013, 2:04am

Same here. And the worst is when the shitty translations happen because of shitty proofreaders. A lot of the shitty scanlations are due to bad proofreaders/QCers who have an absolutely minimal understanding of english. What absolutely mystifies me is that groups with these problems NEVER have an opening in one of these positions roll eyes

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» T1 on October 22nd, 2013, 7:22am

2 reasons could be the reasons for that.

1) Having too many proofreaders ends up with people not doing enough and the bored proofreaders starts making problems instead of helping out.

2) Leechers want their next chapter and it can't come out too fast so groups jumps over the proofreading and let the QC'er do it who sux as proofreading or focus on the editing mistakes.

Sucks but true none

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» T1 on October 22nd, 2013, 7:27am

OEL != Manga, cuz we use manga as a definition for Japanese produced comics. Just like how manhua is for Chinese comics and manwha is for korean. Now that we got those 3 names why should OEL mean manga and not manhua or manwha?

I hate shitty translation too...but that's what happens when there aren't being produced enough Japanese translators and you have to resort to chinese-english, viet-english, french-english translator...or google translate, lol. You can't really expect the old translators to continue until they die, you know...

Anime is popular cuz people watch TV and anime pops up on their TV. This in turn also focus on the manga or novel which the anime is based on and more people starts reading it. So it's only a plus if you want more people to know your favorite title. ^^

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» nakie08 on October 21st, 2013, 1:02am

Quote from KaoriNite
for me, this statement is similar to all the scanlators who have been writing "if you have a problem with the scanlations then you should do them yourself or stop complaining". it goes both ways.
The difference is if the scanlators REALLY quit everyone in the manga community suffers. If on the other hand ungrateful angry leachers opt not to help it doesn't really change much does it? Hell, if they disappear altogether the community would be SO much better. And as far as going both ways go: leechers asks scanlators for releases, is it really that unfair for scanlator to ask leechers not so much as to help out but to wait for the release? And I get the fact that not every leecher is the same. There are still those who show up at the scansite and express their appreciation. I don't even want to argue about the "leechers being ungrateful" thing anymore because that is a VERY VERY old topic already. Don't want to talk about them. What I can't stand is YOU saying scanlators quit if they hate the raging leechers. You say you're not one of the "ungrateful leechers" but that statement is the lowest of the low you can go.

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» Jet on October 21st, 2013, 11:52am

Nothing from the list pisses me off embarrassed Why would I get pissed off by something as trivial as that?
I like speed scanlations. Never cared about quality and never will. I got a firm belief, that real gems shall shine regardless. And there is way too much raw stuff, so the faster equals the better wink .
I don't really care about people making money off scanlations all that much. I'm just a leecher and I enjoy speedy and comfy reading. A couple of adblocked banners won't ever hurt^^.
And it doesn't matter to me what kind of reason there was for a group to stop scanlating. The title would most likely stay dead and that's all there is. Want to read it, but can't, well, that's life for you. Oh, and in like 99% of those cases, it means, that that manga shall seriously go downhill afterwards.
It's sorta lame, when a group has too many projects and releases are slow for the series you read, but look on the bright side - we might get to learn more series this way too.
Guess, I'll vote for "when multiple groups scanlate the same series". It's been nagging me forever. So much potential being lost. But who are we to complain? Looks like there are lots of ppl, who won't ever consider translating anything beside One piece, Noblesse or whatever, even if their releases are pretty much useless.

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» Karuna on October 21st, 2013, 5:15pm

Hello smile .
I'm not only a lecher I'm also a cleaner or a typesetter for some groups so I think it's okay if I complain a little.
The thing that angers me the most is when multiple groups scanlate the same series, it really get's me mad. There are sooo many super great series so why do you want do the same two times? At last they could do a join.
And I think lately it's happening more than before, in the genre I read at last.

Edit: I left one more thing that I don't like pretty much but it isn't in the list, I don't want to make mad anyone and everyone can do what they want but even so don't like it...
I don't like when there are many good groups of the same genre and then a lot of new groups start to pop-up because I know what that will lead to "When scanlation stops due to a Cease & Desist" and "When a good series stops being scanlated because the group closed". I think so, because even if there are a lot of groups the staff translators/editors doesn't change so one group or another is left without staff sad.
And now I've really stopped complaining, even thought when I see people saying to make the releases quicker I think why don't you join if you have a little of time everyday, at least to be a typesetter, for me that doesn't take to much time. Because I'd like to have faster releases too you know?
But I'm not mad at the readers because in the groups I'm in they are pretty grateful and they almost always say thanks smile.

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» mysstris on October 21st, 2013, 11:29pm

Maybe it's such a great series that they want two times the charm? lol sorry but the thing is that people translate differently and translations for scans haven't actually improved over the years either. One example is I'll give is for two speedscaners, they split the job. One person titled the chapter in a way that would spoil the chapter and the other speedscanner made a note in the comments section of that manga that the title should have been something else, something more subtle but also very profound.

But you're right, it's happening more than before and I've been reading manga online for more than just a few years. I don't mind it. If one does a better job in terms of quality, I'll read that one. If they're kind of equal, I'll read both eventually. Plus it's helpful if one group suddenly goes inactive.

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» T1 on October 22nd, 2013, 7:30am

I agree...sooooo many titles just waiting to be scanlated and people are doing the same title as others...it's stupid.

Your readers must be nice ones...I wish every reader was like that. I had 200 downloads, 2 thanks and 6 mails asking for retranslation...I wish I had your readers who are grateful as when you release.

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» Dionaea on October 22nd, 2013, 1:54am

[rant]Multiple scanlators doing the same series, especially when the first scanlation is of good quality and is still downloadable. What's the point of redoing it? I've seen groups redo stories done by Omari's Sister/Crimson Flower, one of the best groups around, why on earth would you redo a story which has been translated and edited well and is easily available for download? There is so much manga out there going untranslated... Why, WHY, WHYYYY?! [/rant]

Seriously though, it's so pointless.

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» youtakun on October 22nd, 2013, 7:21am

"When a good series has no scanlations at all"

How do I know if they are(/might be) good, you ask? I've seen them in magazines in JP.

I made a list a year ago, and now that I took another look at it, I see a handful have been picked up in the mean time. Remaining: http://www.mangaupdates.com/mylist.html?id=185425&list=u ser13

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» T1 on October 22nd, 2013, 7:32am

True...how would you know. I know cuz my understanding of Japanese is better than you but I guess you wouldn't know.
It's again a poll that is pointing in 3-4 demographers so fail poll D:

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» Kewl0210 on October 22nd, 2013, 12:27pm

I just wanna say, this has some really good discussion about this whole subject. A good wide range of opinions, even if some have some circular thinking.

I generally think that as far as many groups doing the same manga goes, it's kind of silly, but some groups will translate/scanlate differently than others. Some are speed groups that do a quick, cheap job that aren't necessarily poor, and others do HQ versions with better quality sources. Also some just are crap and others try to do a better version. I do think it's a good idea to encourage people to work on other manga that's not being worked on than say, be the 5th group simultaneously doing the same one manga though, if it's already being done in good quality. Whining that something that's up to date with the latest in Japan isn't fast enough, just because other manga come out faster, is not.

It certainly is possible to self-teach yourself Japanese, because I did it. I didn't set out to become a manga translator, though. I started out just doing small things then eventually moved onto doing manga when I thought I could do it satisfactorily. It's better to start with something simple, maybe something with pretty simple grammar, and then move up as you learn more. It really just takes constant use of it, building on what you learned before and exposing yourself to new things (And repeating the old so you know it better). That said, you shouldn't whine about people not giving you your free grey-area legal thing fast enough or whatever. Or whine about tiny mistakes in huge projects. And it's certainly better to volunteer to help than whine all that time which a lot of people do. Though I wouldn't say you HAVE TO or anything.

The thing is, anonymity of the Internet makes it really easy for people to do that kind of armchair criticism. People see things from the perspective of their computer screens and usually don't take much effort in figuring out how it gets there. It is MUCH easier to criticize someone without really thinking than it is to consider how much work, time energy, they put in and what complying to their demands would entail to the person. And while sometimes criticism is legitimate, often people are just entitled brats about it. That sort of things upset scanlators. If a group's not doing basic proofreading or their translations are clearly full of meaning-related errors, or the cleans look through they were run through a washing machine, or they didn't even do basic cleaning they could learn in a tutorial in an hour, then it's worth criticizing. Whining that there's a small typo in a scanlation of 400+ lines that the entire team put together in less than a week to maintain an up-to-date weekly schedule, is not. Whining that a group is spending too much time on one project rather than the project they personally want the group to work on is not. There's a different in "wanting your scans to be up to a certain standard of quality" and "demanding everything be perfect while you are doing nothing to contribute or give back while the person does it for free". The thing is, most manga doesn't get scanlated and often if a group drops it, it doesn't get picked up. Or often the scans won't be of nearly as good quality. That goes for popular manga in the US/Japan as well as obscure ones.

Humans have a tendency to feel entitled to things they're just "used" to getting. If something is seen as a "we usually get this without having to wait" then if they have to wait, they feel like they've been denied something. People usually bring up the "it's a privilege not a right" thing here. Basically, when you get used to something always happening, you can start to think that it not happening is a denial of your rights, somehow. In cases like this, it really isn't. You've just been being treated special the whole time, other people have been going out of their way for YOU. It has to do, I think, with emotional empathy. The people that complain relate it to a company offering a product to them that they're purchasing, which is a completely different relationship, one where the source is getting money back which allows them to reasonably devote time to it and meet expectations in order to maintain a livelihood. They don't see the "human aspect" because it's not personalized TO THEM. Most people don't go about reading blogs scanlators write or anything, see who does what, learn about the scanlator's preferences, philosophy, likes and dislikes, creative choices, and all that. They just check a reader to see if something's there or not. It's really an immature, thoughtless response that I'd like to think most reasonable people are able to curb that impulse and realize this is something people do in their free time, for no money, that takes tons of time and they get really nothing in return for, doing it purely for love of the manga and wanting to spread that thing they love to other people. At most, it's good practice for being a professional translator or a writer, but it's not something you can put on a resume or get monetary compensation for. When you have free time outside of work/school/training/sleep/other important parts of life, then it's reasonable to do. If people demand that they spend more of their time on something, they don't consider that maybe the person would like to, but can't do it without sacrificing one of those important things. Like I end up having little sleep a lot of the time just to keep up with weekly schedules, often just so my own staff work on it because even they sometimes don't show up if my job's done late. I won't even go into the tons of problems between staff, but often if you have enthusiastic people who can perform every job except one, then the project won't get done. It takes every step being done for it to be done. It can often take more than hard work, but also compliance from other in order to get jobs done. I've got a good number of scanlations I've done over a year ago that aren't scanlated yet, and I don't have time to bug people or try to do it myself, or find a new group to do it with at the moment.

But basically, if people see something getting done for them that they don't have to do anything special for, they don't have any emotional empathy for the people and just see it as this cold-emotionless entity that it's okay to make demands for because that's what they're "supposed" to do. There's a diffusion of responsibility, because it's just a thing put openly on the internet that lots of people read. They don't feel like someone went out of their way for them specifically, so they don't OWE anyone anything, and they can therefore complain if something makes them mildly uncomfortable. That I think is what causes the problem. One group of people is doing tons of work for nothing out of passion and the spirit of sharing something they love, trying to make others happy for no personal gain, and the other group doesn't view that aspect and just continuously thinks the former group OWES them. That a group that takes a long time to do something is "just lazy" and bullshit like that. As someone mentioned, the relationship isn't even close to equal. And they don't make an effort to relate to the person or understand their situation at all, which is generally pretty immature and self-centered. Especially on the internet where everyone thinks it's okay to complain, blame, and shame everybody for whatever thing they feel entitled to have. Then they insult people that don't deliver. It's kind of a human heuristical response that only goes away with a more widespread understanding of how the process works. Which I encourage people to do, try to emphatically convey to these people what is going on, I mean. And maybe it will get people to stop being jerks about that sort of thing a little bit. Course, some people will just be spoiled brats anyhow.

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» PROzess on October 23rd, 2013, 1:47am

+1

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» Dionaea on October 24th, 2013, 12:58pm

What a great, thoughtful response, I agree with you completely. I don't understand people who think they have the right to complain to people who give them something nice for free. I stated some of my pet peeves in this thread, but I've never complained to the scanlators when I came across them, only glared and grumbled at my computer screen a bit X) I really appreciate the work scanlators do smile

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» Kewl0210 on October 23rd, 2013, 7:51am

Prozess is saying that complaining is rude/lazy/easy/hurts everyone and actually going about learning the work and doing it is polite/proactive/difficult/helps everyone. It's something that can purely be done by hard work. You don't need to leave your computer, get a degree or have tons of connections before you can get your foot in the door, a lot of jobs can be learned in a couple days (At least on a rudimentary level). Translating at least at the basic level can be done in a couple years if you work hard. Even completely on your own (Though working with others will be faster. I'm trying to learn a third language completely on my own and develop my Japanese skills mostly on my own). Or else sooner but much slower if you use the right sources (You'd be looking things up a lot more, or else you'd be doing manga with very simple language). So basically actually working is the better choice. And as it's been established, you're not owed anything so you really don't have a leg to stand on if you're complaining.

It's not like say... You think your city's professional sports team sucks, so go work for 10 years and devote all your time and energy to it and become a member of the team so the team does better. That's an unreasonable request. What's more, because usually those such people are being paid and are in a competitive market. Scanlation is a hobby that really can only get you practice/experience that could maybe someday lead to getting money, but is not life-supporting in itself.

It's not a reasonable thing to complain about scanlations not being done the way you want. However it's fine to just be sad that something you wish were scanlated isn't scanlated, just the complaining and the rudeness is the bad part.

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» LawX on October 24th, 2013, 8:41am

What angers me the most is not even on the list so I'm going to use this opportunity to rant a little. What angers me the most is when scanlation groups make you jump through hoops just to get to their releases. Creating treasure hunts where they give you a quiz, and then you have to search through their forum for the answers. Then say they do it because they don't want their releases to be uploaded somewhere else. However, that only has the opposite effect the sooner they realize that the better.

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» cmertb on October 24th, 2013, 12:10pm

I hate to point out the obvious, but if you don't like how scanlators make their releases, become one and do it better. You are not giving scanlators anything, so they have neither need nor obligation to make things convenient for you.

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» LawX on October 24th, 2013, 1:31pm

Quote from cmertb
I hate to point out the obvious, but if you don't like how scanlators make their releases, become one and do it better. You are not giving scanlators anything, so they have neither need nor obligation to make things convenient for you.


I've done scanlating before thank you very much. So much for that suggestion. Also, so what? Doesn't mean I don't have the right to complain or have an opinion on it. They have their rights and I have mine. Also I never go and complain to the scanlators directly so who cares? I can complain about it when asked. Not like my opinion is hurting anyone's feelings.

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» cmertb on October 24th, 2013, 3:23pm

You're welcome, although your logic is deficient. The fact that you've "done scanlating before" doesn't mean that anyone should take your complaining about scanaltors seriously now.

I agree, you certainly have the right to complain (where you won't get banned for it wink ). But at the same time you must admit that scanlators have the right to ridicule your complaints on the basis that you consume what they produce without giving anything to them in return. If you don't think they have that right, then you don't have your right to complain either. Let's be logical, okay?

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» x0mbiec0rp on October 24th, 2013, 5:58pm

Quote from cmertb
You're welcome, although your logic is deficient. The fact that you've "done scanlating before" doesn't mean that anyone should take your complaining about scanaltors seriously now.

I agree, you certainly have the right to complain (where you won't get banned for it wink ). But at the same t ...

In the situation used, the scanlators in question ARE requiring something in return. They are taking people's time and soliciting forum views (and often, forum activity) from the potential reader.

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» LawX on October 24th, 2013, 6:12pm

Quote from x0mbiec0rp
In the situation used, the scanlators in question ARE requiring something in return. They are taking people's time and soliciting forum views (and often, forum activity) from the potential reader.


This.

Quote from cmertb
You're welcome, although your logic is deficient. The fact that you've "done scanlating before" doesn't mean that anyone should take your complaining about scanaltors seriously now.


Also, where did I say that because I've scanlated that people should take me more seriously? You're making assumptions here, I was merely answering back to what you said.

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» KaoriNite on October 24th, 2013, 6:55pm

Totally agree.

I think its weird that people think scanlators shouldn't have to deal with complaints or criticisms. I get that you're doing a job for free, but if you are doing a bad job at it why can't I have a complaint (whether I'm another scanlator or just a leecher)? In the end, aren't most of the criticisms trying to help the scanlators become better at their jobs?

Also, what this forum was meant to be was what angers you about scanlations. If there are complaints about readers, maybe there should be a different poll for that next week.

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» PROzess on October 25th, 2013, 2:03am

If they are doing a bad job and you're pointing that out politely, then it's criticism.

But if you just bluntly tell them how they suck, it's complain.

And the matter at hand here is the complaining part.

I doubt any scanlator has anything against constructive criticism, some even welcome it.
But complaining is a completely different matter and shouldn't be grouped together.

I still don't see the problem as to why you cannot commit 5 minutes to download a release, when the group itself spend HOURS to make the release.
Groups have their reason for releasing stuff like they do, mostly because of the influence of online reader sites.

That resentment only comes from your own laziness.
Be honest, you just want to read the chapter as quickly as possible and maybe leave a short "Thanks" as a comment, so that you have fulfilled your duty as a loyal reader.
But then some group dares to make you browse through some forum for a couple of minutes to find the release, which steals your precious reading time. I can understand that, but you complaining about it, is not an option. You might seek a discussion with the scanlator about that problem, or you could simply wait until the release shows up on an online reader.

But no, in most cases, the readers/leecher always resort to complaining/flaming/etc, which is outright wrong.

Quote from LawX
I can complain about it when asked. Not like my opinion is hurting anyone's feelings..


It can hurt if expressed in the wrong way.
Of course everyone has the right to have an opinion, but if a scanlator has to read these "opinions" like "you're too slow" "release faster" every day, then I'm sure they can hurt, or at least make him lose his motivation.

Again, you should differentiate between complaining and constructive criticism.

Then why not just shut up and go there?

That's the problem to begin with. Reader feel entitled to express their egoist "opinion" to the scanlators.
What makes your "opinion" better than theirs?

They spend HOURS to make that release, so it's their fucking choice how to distribute it.
You can either comply with that or shut the fuck up and go away.

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» x0mbiec0rp on October 25th, 2013, 6:44am

Quote from PROzess
That resentment only comes from your own laziness.
Be honest, you just want to read the chapter as quickly as possible and maybe leave a short "Thanks" as a comment, so that you have fulfilled your duty as a loyal reader. But...

Thanks for implying my time is near worthless, and the only reason I have a problem is laziness. I love that. Especially since you're just using this as a platform for your real dispute, the readers who angrily demand new releases from scanlators and insult hard work with not basis.

They're jerks. Do keep in mind, though, that that's a separate issue and that you shouldn't try to twist my complaint into support for their actions.

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» cmertb on October 24th, 2013, 7:06pm

Quote from x0mbiec0rp
In the situation used, the scanlators in question ARE requiring something in return. They are taking people's time and soliciting forum views (and often, forum activity) from the potential reader.

Hmm? So you consider a request to be a decent member of the manga fan community to be a payment? Isn't participation something that you should give freely and gladly?

Quote from LawX
Also, where did I say that because I've scanlated that people should take me more seriously? You're making assumptions here, I was merely answering back to what you said.

If your past scanlator experience is irrelevant, then don't bring it up. Since you disavow that line of argument now, let us return to the original point: if you don't like how scanlators do releases, become a scanlator and do it yourself the "right" way. Your other option is to take what you're given for free without complaint. Your third option, if you don't like the first two, is to meekly submit to the well-deserved ridicule. Your choice.

Oh, I can process three leechers at a time:
Quote from KaoriNite
I think its weird that people think scanlators shouldn't have to deal with complaints or criticisms.

You're a little confused here. The issue is not leecher complaints regarding quality, which can be valid and are more often than not addressed to everyone's satisfaction, especially if they're politely worded. In fact, I don't even see them as "complaints" per se, more like additional QC reports. The issue under discussion here is ridiculous complaints arising from leechers' false sense of entitlement. Like the ones I'm addressing above. You have to agree that there is a world of difference between "You have a typo on page 3" and "I'm pissed off that you're making me show my appreciation when we all know I don't appreciate you at all, and by the way, hurry up with the next chapter, will you?"

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» x0mbiec0rp on October 24th, 2013, 7:18pm

Quote from cmertb
Hmm? So you consider a request to be a decent member of the manga fan community to be a payment? Isn't participation something that you should give freely and gladly?


Yes. Participation is something that should be given freely. Freely. As in not as payment for scanlations or being payed with scanlations. Which is what the complaint is about.

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» LawX on October 24th, 2013, 7:26pm

Quote from x0mbiec0rp
Yes. Participation is something that should be given freely. Freely. As in not as payment for scanlations or being payed with scanlations. Which is what the complaint is about.


It's this, why is this so hard to understand? Instead, you are getting the illusion of appreciation. If you want to continue forcing "appreciation" go on ahead. Just pointing it out.

Quote from cmertb
If your past scanlator experience is irrelevant, then don't bring it up.

Again, I was only answering back to what you said in the first place. You are bending things to suite you.

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» cmertb on October 24th, 2013, 7:35pm

Quote from x0mbiec0rp
Yes. Participation is something that should be given freely. Freely. As in not as payment for scanlations or being payed with scanlations. Which is what the complaint is about.

Should be, but isn't. If you were willing to give it freely, you wouldn't complain about being required to give it. If you're not willing to give it freely, what's your basis to complain again?

Quote from LawX
It's this, why is this so hard to understand? Instead, you are getting the illusion of appreciation. If you want to continue forcing "appreciation" go on ahead. Just pointing it out.

You're preaching to the choir. In case you haven't noticed, I'm merely pointing out that a leecher complaining about it is ridiculous. It's scanlators' business how they do releases. If you want to point out that it's only an illusion and not the real thing, I'm with you. If you want to complain about it, then be ridiculed, regardless of whether you have some irrelevant scanlator experience in the past or not.

Quote from LawX
Again, I was only answering back to what you said in the first place. You are bending things to suite you.

If you thought it was an answer, you didn't understand the question. Would you like me to walk you through that line of argument again?

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» x0mbiec0rp on October 24th, 2013, 7:49pm

Quote from cmertb
Should be, but isn't. If you were willing to give it freely, you wouldn't complain about being required to give it. If you're not willing to give it freely, what's your basis to complain again?

Call me old fashioned, but I generally like to appreciate something after enjoying it. It's also easy to turn appreciation into resentment, if you're demanding your "appreciation" in specific amounts in weird places that require people to fill out forms and agree to terms of service.

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» Unknown on October 25th, 2013, 2:11am

Post Deleted

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» Unknown on October 25th, 2013, 2:07am

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» Unknown on October 25th, 2013, 2:14am

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» LawX on October 24th, 2013, 8:06pm

Complaining about being forced to show appreciation is not ridiculous considering it is my payment. Also, there is another option and that is go somewhere else to dl it. laugh

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» Unknown on October 25th, 2013, 2:16am

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» LawX on October 25th, 2013, 2:31am

Quote from PROzess
Then why not just shut up and go there?

That's the problem to begin with. Reader feel entitled to express their egoist "opinion" to the scanlators.
What makes your "opinion" better than theirs?

They spend HOURS to make that release, so it's their fucking choice how to distribute it ...


Oh my such language, you seem upset. Anyway, this is what this thread is about is it not? This thread opened up the conversation. As I said I never go to scanlators directly with how I feel about the matter. If I don't want to go to the effort of jumping through hoops then I'm not going to go through of effort of sending messages to them. Yes, they have the right to distribute their releases however they want. That still doesn't mean I have to like it or lick their boots.

I'll go to other scanlation groups and give them my genuine appreciation. Instead of being forced to answers quizes and go on treasure hunts.

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» blueflor on October 25th, 2013, 2:22am

See, I scanlate because I want others enjoy it. I don't have to do it and I certainly don't care about what you want to read or how fast you want it.

I would like it if, you, the leechers would be able to leave your thoughts on what you thought of the manga instead of just "thanks" on my website, but it seems people only become "creative" writers if you delay or piss them off.

Also, I might add that positive feedback/appreciation generally motivates those who spend countless hours perfecting the releases you read.

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» waftingwish on October 25th, 2013, 5:27pm

Most release posts I come across usually say something like, "Hey, chapter x is out. Enjoy." Plus maybe the occasional status update or personal rambling. On your page do you make it known that you want "creative" responses? Do you put out a statement or question that would encourage discussion? I only make longer comments in response to an actual question or an interesting statement left by a scanlator or another commenter. I also tend to avoid longer comments to avoid spoilers. Plus, I read a lot of fluff manga to which the only response can be kyaaaaaaaaa! And that's just silly.
I know scanlators like appreciation and I think they deserve it, but I don't like the idea that saying a simple thanks is not enough. There's only so much a reader can do short of joining a group.

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» blueflor on October 25th, 2013, 2:35am

hmm I must say I don't understand why people would make it very difficult to download manga. I mean if the whole point is to distribute manga that other people may not have been able to read then why make it so difficult?

That being said, I'm okay with password protecting the files as long as they clearly state what the password is.

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» NightSwan on October 25th, 2013, 4:27am

What the hell is matter with people here? What's with all that bashing?

This thread is specifically about qualms about scanlations and scanlators.
Just because it's free, doesn't mean a person should be happy when served with shit.
Scanlations were meant as free for fans, fans being the people who don't do the work.
I'm not saying it's not in their "rights" to make it hard for said fans to have access to their releases, but it's definitely within the fans' rights to complain about it, especially if there's a thread around this question.

I'm an active scanlator, but I don't scanlate every single manga out there and I don't know Japanese, so naturally, I read other groups' releases.
On the subject of jumping through loops I'm on agreement with Law. It's annoying. Very annoying.
Law also specifically stated not ranting about it directly to the groups, so what's wrong with being unsatisfied with them and speaking out in this particular thread?

@cmertb
So high and mighty.
What some groups make you go through isn't a mere sign of appreciation, but an offering of time and sanity to their thrones of megalomania.
Again, they can do what they want, but it doesn't mean we all have to scoop the poo with a spoon and smile with content.
There's another side to this. If some groups demand this payment (and it is payment, no matter how you choose to spin it around), why shouldn't all groups? Soon, to get to a chapter that was done for fans for free, readers will be forced to go through hours of nonsensical torture. But hey, as scanlators, we have the right. Forget about the aggregator sites who'll profit from this, and that nobody will be visiting scanlators' sites directly, at least we've had our pound of flesh and 50 posts to topics that don't relate to anything from each dedicated reader, if any are left.

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» cmertb on October 25th, 2013, 3:01pm

Quote from NightSwan
@cmertb
So high and mighty.
What some groups make you go through isn't a mere sign of appreciation, but an offering of time and sanity to their thrones of megalomania.
Again, they can do what they want, but it doesn't mean we all have to scoop the poo with a spoon and smile with content.
There's another side to this. If some groups demand this payment (and it is payment, no matter how you choose to spin it around), why shouldn't all groups? Soon, to get to a chapter that was done for fans for free, readers will be forced to go through hours of nonsensical torture. But hey, as scanlators, we have the right. Forget about the aggregator sites who'll profit from this, and that nobody will be visiting scanlators' sites directly, at least we've had our pound of flesh and 50 posts to topics that don't relate to anything from each dedicated reader, if any are left.

1) I'm modesty itself.
2) It's not a payment, no matter what terms you choose to describe it, since there is no material benefit gained by the scanlators. Their sense of self-aggrandizement, if applicable, is not quantifiable and cannot be used as a justification to refer to the whole process as "payment".
3) As far as the effect on driving leechers toward aggregators goes, I personally believe it's negligible. But also, it's a separate discussion if it comes from a fellow scanlator point of view and pertains to how it affects other scanlators. For now, I am merely pointing out that any bellyaching about this from leechers is ridiculous and not worthy of consideration. I release the simplest way possible (i.e. I just upload to Mediafire and post on my release blog), but would defend the right of other scanlators to release any way they see fit as long as they are not materially compensated.

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» LawX on October 26th, 2013, 3:44am

Quote from cmertb
...but would defend the right of other scanlators to release any way they see fit as long as they are not materially compensated.


No one is arguing that they don't have to right to distribute their releases however they want. As I have said many times before I agree they have the right to distribute their release however they want, but that doesn't mean I am required to like it. I did not set out to change anyone's method of distribution I only answered to the thread. You can stop pretending to use that as the basis for your argument now. This is really just you getting offended over an opinion.

Through out this whole thing you've revealed that you don't really care for your readers or readers in general since you see them as "worthless." That's something that is always nice to know. (◕‿◕✿)

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» whitespade on October 25th, 2013, 7:40am

wow, so many anger, resentment, and hurt feelings!

i should say 'we should get along' but thats boring. i actually think it is good people hold very strong opinion here - lately the polls are not very good and engaging, so it is nice for us forum members to get heated once in a while.

flame on! laugh

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» KaoriNite on October 25th, 2013, 11:06pm

Quote from whitespade
i actually think it is good people hold very strong opinion here - lately the polls are not very good and engaging, so it is nice for us forum members to get heated once in a while.


I agree. I've really liked this topic. Its something everyone has an opinion on, and its more interesting since the opinions are so varied.

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» Amplify1 on October 25th, 2013, 7:42am

This one really needs to be multiple choice, so I can select all of the first 5 options.

At the very least it's a tie between #1 and #3.

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» Galooza on October 25th, 2013, 12:23pm

I do and don't have issues with how releases are obtained. something like irc, for example, I say get off your duff and take a few minutes to get acquainted with it. It ain't that hard. If I see an adfly link through which to get a release, I'll purposely avoid it. I don't believe in forcing people to obtain releases through monetized links or methods. I don't complain about those. Something I will complain about that I think plays in part to Law's argument is horrible site design. There are some places that you can search to the ends of the site practically and never find a link to the download anywhere. I will happily complain about that till the cows come home. And in this case, not telling the group leader would be a mistake. Most will probably blow it off even if you are nice about it, but some may actually listen and address the issue which wouldn't happen if you never mention it.

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» waftingwish on October 25th, 2013, 5:45pm

I chose the 3rd option. It's the one in the poll that bothers me the most as a reader aside from knowing that people are out there making money off scanlations. It especially bothers me when licensed published series go incompleted.
I also don't like groups that make you join a forum and do the whole song and dance. I don't complain to those groups. I simply move along and read other manga from other groups. I could make a constructive argument against those requirements, but I doubt I'll sway any to group to change their ways. Besides, if I did I would probably be subjected to ridicule anyway.

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