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20 Years in Prison for Buying Manga

Yes, you read that right. Here's the deal. Christopher Handley of Iowa, USA was arrested about half a year ago for buying manga. One day, he receives 7 volumes of manga from the post office because he ordered them from Japan. The authorities follow him home because they already investigated the volumes and deemed them "obscene" and "objectionable." He is arrested, and they confiscate his whole collection: DVDs, manga volumes, VHS tapes, computers, etc. And now he faces a trial and up to 20 years in prison. All for ordering manga.

Now, it's true that sources say that some of the manga in question are yaoi. Sure, he may have had some hentai in his vast collection. But that's not the point. He was just going to read them in private in his own home. He didn't commit some heinous crime and rape someone. The issue here is about freedom. Your personal freedom.

The point is this. You decide what you want to read. Some of you (including me) will never read yaoi. Or yuri, or hentai, or gory/bloody stuff like Elfen Lied. That's our choice to make.
But what about this scenario? Your favorite series doesn't have any of that stuff usually. But just one place, in say volume 7, contains a single scene of rape to get the plot going in an interesting direction (mind you, it wasn't that graphic either). Now imagine the authorities busting into your house and arresting you because you own a manga series with that some obscene content here and there.

So how does this apply to you? Naruto has had some pretty graphic deaths before. Same goes for Bleach. You a shoujo fan? Ever read Peach Girl? Now read this news article. You can name many examples taken from your favorite series. I for one can think of scenes from Mahou Sensei Negima!, something I have personally helped scanlate for the last 2-3 years. Or even Gantz, which I know tons of you read. So who draws the line for what you read? You or them?

Now, I know what you're thinking. All your manga is downloaded, so there's no physical evidence of what you're reading. But investigators can check your hard drive or the trail you leave on the internet for what sites you visit. This may just be the beginning to something broader that could affect you in the future. Future technology could make it much harder for you to get your entertainment. Who can say? (Or the unspoken question: When/Will the companies finally crack down on fansubbing and scanlating?)

Or you're saying that you don't read any of that "hardcore" stuff? For sure you're safe... for now... With the current laws, you won't get prosecuted for reading Gantz (at least I hope so). But things can change, possibly for the worst.

So what can you do? I realize that a lot of you aren't even in the United States. But at least some scanlators are. And there are many manga fans here in the US too. I also realize that a lot of us don't have much money. (Or else why would we download illegally for free?) If you feel willing to help monetarily for this court case and future similar cases, you can do so by donating. If not, you can still spread the news to all the manga fans you know. At least I got you thinking. We fans could use better unity.

Or you can totally ignore this and feel it doesn't apply. Your choice.

For more information:
Donation Link
http://www.cbldf.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=2

Background Information
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-10-10/iowa-collector-charged-for-allegedly-obscene-manga
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-11-24/lawyer-indicates-manga-in-iowa-obscenity-case-are-yaoi

Other Editorials
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/editorial/2008-12-11/christopher-handley/jason-thompson
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/editorial/2008-12-11/christopher-handley/carl-horn

This news post does not necessarily reflect the official view of MangaUpdates. This was written by I, lambchopsil, admin of MU. This is meant to get dead fans thinking outside of their own little worlds. There actually IS a global fan base for anime and manga.

Posted by lambchopsil on December 12th 6:36pm

Comments ( 137 ) [ View ] [ Add ]

Comments

umm... by Tenshinchigi on December 12th, 2008, 6:54pm

From what I understand the series that got him thrown into jail were Shotacon series, ie. Kiddy porn, which is illegal not only in America, but virtually every contrey in the world. And yes, that includes drawn pictures too. It was only recently added to Americas laws, and by Bush. But the Amber Alert laws include laws against depictions of Child Pornography. America was actually pretty far behind in the matter, only recently outlawing it, while it's been illegal in other major countries for years. So It's not just Americans, the rest of the world has to watch out too. Your p0rnz are no longer safe.
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Re: umm... by naikan on December 12th, 2008, 7:15pm

The sources say it was yaoi depicting adults that looked ambiguously young. Which is certainly possible. If that's the case, then fans of Haruka Minami and CJ Michalski are in trouble, not to mention a few other authors who write stories about 20 year old men that look 10. :/
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Re: umm... by Hikage Idaten on December 12th, 2008, 9:26pm

They should get the manga-ka to back up the characters' actual ages. Would they have any basis for prosecution in that case if it was proven that they were adults. In that case it'd be no different from owning porn.
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Re: umm... by Tenshinchigi on December 12th, 2008, 10:00pm

Yeah, well the point of the law is to prevent pedo's from escalating. If they look like kids pedo's are gonna jack off to them, it doesn't matter what age they are in context. I mean sure I might be legal at 21, but I look around 12, meaning that any guy who hit's on me is a pedo. They don't know I'm legal so doesn't that mean they think they're hitting on someone underage?
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Re: umm... by drunkguy on December 12th, 2008, 10:47pm

That part's been dropped. The judge tossed it because the law in question was unconstitutional. The case is now centered on an obscenity charge based on a few panels in a few manga. Don't know what those panels are but this isn't just about pedophilia anymore. It's about censorship in general. If you care to speak out on that front then I'm sure a lot of people here would like to read it.
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Re: umm... by Tenshinchigi on December 13th, 2008, 6:37am

Are you sure? I know that originally Drawn Kiddy porn was illegal, and then some judge declared it unconstitutional, but the President of the USA added that law again just recently, can a supreme judge really over turn it that easily? As for the obscenity charge, isn't that only for public displays? Can they really tell you the p0rn you're reading it to hard core?
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Re: umm... by jijiey on December 13th, 2008, 8:11am

hah. no more loli nuuuuu......
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Re: umm... by jijiey on December 13th, 2008, 8:12am

just kidding... i hope they dont arrest for reading ecchi manga
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Re: umm... by drunkguy on December 13th, 2008, 4:10pm

According to the first editorial link listed by lambchopsil, it apparently happened with a comic store manager in Texas who sold Urotsukidoji despite it being clearly labeled adults only, kept in an adults only section and it being bought by an adult. This would be the first instance where a person is charge for just purchasing/owning the damn things.
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Re: umm... by naikan on December 14th, 2008, 10:27am

I don't know what pedophiles like do or don't like, but in this particular case it would less be like a guy hitting on your cuz you look 12 and more like, you look twelve but a classmate of yours who really likes you and knows that you are 21 hits on you despite you looking 12. More time than not, if the person is buying tank yaoi, they may very well be buying it because they know it's 18+ characters that just look a little young.
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Re: umm... by akuma_river on December 13th, 2008, 12:06am

First of all, shotacon is not technically illegal. Kiddy porn, actual porn made with actual kids is illegal. Drawn porn that feature kids on the other hand is not technically porn. Because porn by definition is with real (actually human being) participants. This has to do with the PROTECT Act and the Miller Test and the new addition of the Adam Walsh Act. The PROTECT Act and parts of the Adam Walsh Act are being contested on grounds of unconstitutionality. What he's being charged on is obscenity which is done by the Miller Test on what is consider art and what is considered obscene. This is basically censorship.It is damn hard to prove the Miller Test because all three aspects of the Miller Test have to be fulfilled for it to be considered obscene and very rarely all three can be proven. The problem is WHERE this case is taking place. Jury of your peers and all that. If you are from a religious and conservative place, consider yourself sentenced. If you are from a more liberal and artsy area, you can consider yourself safe. This all goes down to what is and is not art. And strictly speaking, not even the Supreme Court can define that and they said so. And this is in the midst of a Bush administration as well. I think the guy will get off if he was given a fair trial...but with the words "kiddy porn" being tossed about...I'm not so sure anymore.
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Re: umm... by Hikage Idaten on December 14th, 2008, 7:16pm

There's plently of disgusting no-way-is-it-art porn out there (2girls....). Are there laws against that? Or is it just America's messed up view that if it's a 'comic', kids must be reading it?
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Re: umm... by jijiey on December 15th, 2008, 2:59am

Comic and manga are different comic mostly contains comedy or action while manga is somewhat wide in many perspective. If the manga contains nudity or same sex relations its should be for adults only unlike in japan yaoi manga are for young girl and etc..
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Re: umm... by Hikage Idaten on December 15th, 2008, 4:13am

I agree that kids should not be reading yaoi and hentai and stuff (even though I did myself). But if someone is of legal age to buy adult material, that should be perfectly fine.
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Don't Exaggerate by Invader_Chimp on December 12th, 2008, 6:58pm

This guy who got arrested for ordering manga probably wasn't ordering Naruto or Negima or anything like that. The writer makes it seem like the FBI now has permission to bust into to our homes if we get caught reading Bleach or something. I bet anything this guy ordered some sick stuff with most likely lolis and rape, not just some normal manga. As long as you dont read this junk it should be OK.
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Re: Don't Exaggerate by Djamu on December 12th, 2008, 7:45pm

So if I read this corrcetly, what you're saying is > horror / thriller movies should be banned ( and prosecutioned ) too because they'll make you really do that stuff.... mmm maybe you're right.. no wonder America got the highest % of inmates ... I wonder who's the sickest ... dumb bible fanatics
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Re: Don't Exaggerate by drunkguy on December 12th, 2008, 10:55pm

It was Yaoi and loli/shota manga. The postal inspector was suspicious of the package, opened it up and issued a warrant for police to search the guy's place. They then cleaned out his massive collection of manga and anime and took his PC. His defense is that he collected the works based on the fact that he liked the art style. Most of his collection contained mainstream series. Only a few of the manga, perhaps ten, are being cited as containing illicit content in a few panels. If that's true, I'm leaning towards believing him.
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Re: Don't Exaggerate by akuma_river on December 13th, 2008, 12:13am

Excuse me, but strictly speaking, there are scenes where Naruto crosses the "acceptable" button. Like where Naruto age 12 transforms in his busty blonde version and let's not forget the pervy sage. This is above all a test on what is censorable in the art and comic world. Because they don't like this, it "offends" their sensibilities and they want it gone. And you know what, the Post Office, had no legal right to search his mail. It's not REAL children, no one is harmed in the making, producing, or in the viewing of this material. it was an illegal search. They have no grounds. It is all about censorship.
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Re: Don't Exaggerate by tingster7 on December 16th, 2008, 8:11pm

totally agree! u made a good point there! they shouldn't be allowed search your mail like that. and it's drawn, not even THAT realistic....-____-
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No Subject by RilleL on December 12th, 2008, 7:38pm

Wtf, this is just sick! Since when is manga illegal, shotacon or otherwise? He's facing charges for obscenity in manga? First of all, have those guys even read manga? Secondly, am I the only one having watched hollywood movies? There's plenty of obscenity in there. Or does that only apply to manga? Prejudice, fear and disgust about things you're not familiar with. Now where have I heared that before... My god there is something really wrong about the american legal system, or maybe moral system.
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Another success... by Aleph0 on December 12th, 2008, 7:43pm

... in preventing ink & paper from being molestated. This law is a retarded one.
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Re: Another success... by milern on December 19th, 2008, 1:14am

I laughed so hard at this...
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No Subject by channel_49 on December 12th, 2008, 7:43pm

Wow what a load of bull. Maybe tomorrow they'll start banning all bishojo because characters never look like they're 18. I'm Canadian, and I hate America and all the late hypocritical shit they pull. I don't read yaoi or loli, but I STILL think this is a load of shit.
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he has my pity by fortune-teller on December 12th, 2008, 7:51pm

It's really unbelievable how some countries enforce moral codes through severe punishment. I wouldn't want to live in such a country. This would be unthinkable where I live. And trying to change or soften those laws is quite futile since the lawmakers and the majority of the population have a deep rooted way of thinking concerning moral and tradition.
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Re: he has my pity by CCTV_guy on February 26th, 2009, 9:10pm

don't be so sure, it shouldn't be allowed here either: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ---- First Amendment of the United States Constitution ----
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Time to Start Burning Books! :D by Aeylis on December 12th, 2008, 7:54pm

I don't read any of the 'yaoi' or loli stuff but honestly now. There are normal books, like all text BOOKS that are way worse than that stuff...I mean if the guy is actually thinking or acting like he wants to do what was in the book then they have a legitimate reason to arrest him, but come on...
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No Subject by Spawnblade on December 12th, 2008, 8:06pm

I personally detest shotacon, and yaoi, and various other 'sketchy' manga genres. However this is rather difficult to take in. Particularly because of how many series actually have one scene (as you noted) of some under-aged girl with her shirt off, in the Japanese fashion of odd humor. Also, manwha like Ubel Blatt would fall under this category. I have no love for the genres that focus on the illicit material, but the fact is that nearly all manga contains objectionable content in some chapter or another. And this case may simply be a gateway to prosecuting those that do not even hold interest in that 'fetish'.
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What?? by seraimes on December 12th, 2008, 8:16pm

OMG That SUCKS!! Why is he arrested for BUYING mangas. I feel so bad for the poor guy. If the US doesn't want people buying those types of mangas then they should ban it so EVERYONE knows about it. I'm sure he didn't know it was illegal, otherwise he wouldn't have done it. Sighhh poor guy.
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WOW WTF by Heirojero on December 12th, 2008, 8:16pm

This is wrong, they shouldn't arrest him just for ordering some manga even if the content was questionable. Like someone said, are they gonna arrest people for questionable books and movies next. Am I gonna have to start worrying about arrest because I got a copy of Lolita?
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No Subject by leoak on December 12th, 2008, 9:05pm

OMG I got to get out of the country!! I was just reading a yaoi Kuroshitsuji DJ... Well, if I wasn't paranoid about having the data on my dead hard drive recovered, I sure as hell am now. I had a yaoi D.Gray-man DJ on the desktop. I'm not a shotacon fan per se, but Mizukami Shin and CJ Michalski really know how to work the genre. The yaoi with preschoolers just isn't something I could read, but high school-age is different (I'm only a few years older than a high schooler anyway). From what I read in the articles, it's not that he had shotacon, but it's the typical issue non-fans have - they can't tell the age/gender of the characters because they don't know anything about the artwork. Example: My older brother was drinking from a mug with a Viewfinder character on it for months. The entire time, he thought the character was a long haired girl (so did my mom) and freaked when I told him it was actually a guy in his mid 20s. My parents can't, for the life of them, tell you if a character is a girl or guy, much less guess at an age. I hope someone explains the age/gender issue to the jury at his trial. Yaoi characters do look young (girls don't want to read about two fat, bald 50ish guys getting hot and heavy), but they tend to be university students, business guys or adults. The only exception that might sink him is the high school yaoi. That and him being a guy reading "gay porn" might not go so good with the jury. As a yaoi fan, the obscenity charges freak me out. I live in the U.S. (in the south of all places!) so I could be total screwed if "gay cartoon porn" was an arrestable offense. Let's face it, even if yaoi passed the Miller Test in the U.S., that fact that it's gay porn in a homophobic country will automatically get you thrown in jail.
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Re: No Subject by Digital-Eon on December 12th, 2008, 9:13pm

And high-school age can still be underage - child porn is 18 and under, isn't it? That's a perfectly decent law, and one that should be implemented worldwide for the protection of children. If it's a matter of ambiguity but the characters are clearly adults, or stated to be so, within the plot... that's not illegal. The thing is that what seems normal to most manga readers (sixteen-year-olds having sex in smut, for instance) is not actually normal outside of those fandoms. So what if real sixteen-year-olds are having sex? That's not something you'd see for entertainment (I assume), or at least not with real teenagers. No one would get arrested for reading stories that feature gay but consenting adults or stories with one questionable scene that is clearly meant to drive the plot. As mentioned above, there must be other reasons. For the record - you mentioned D.Gray-Man? One of the main characters, at least, is below even the standard age of consent (let alone 18). I have no desire to know anything further on your particular doujinshi, but using that as an example, yes, that's illegal. And it doesn't matter if the 'genre' is done well - underage is underage. It couldn't happen in the real world, after all.
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Re: No Subject by leoak on December 12th, 2008, 10:37pm

This brings it back to the “community standards” mentioned in one of the articles. People in the anime/manga community can have different standards as to what is acceptable in manga and what isn't in real life. I have no problem with the 18 and under law in regards to actual flesh and blood people. Minors in those situations (with the exception of those that think it's cool for whatever reason) are involuntary involved. Where I draw the line is where the characters are purely fictional ink-and-paper creations. That's the point where the government encroaches too much. The laws are meant to protect people from getting hurt not fictional ink and paper creations that, in some cases, look human (has anyone seen a human that looks like a manga character?). I know I come from an ignorant country, but I would hope my compatriots would have enough brains to realized the difference between a 16 year-old girl and a big eyed, Japanese version of the disproportionate Barbe. Unless you're 5 years old, have some sort of mental impairment or disease, people are capable of recognizing the difference between fantasy and real life. How? It's just as you said, "it couldn't happen in the real world, after all." I'm simply of the opinion that laws shouldn't encroach on fantasy because laws are meant for the real world. Either way, the whole argument is based on opinion. You'll have the bible thumpers and self-righteous thorns-in-everybody's-side argue that all manga should be burned because of panty shots, short skirts, low cut tops and gay/lesbian relations while others argue artistic freedom/free speech and still others will say "who gives a damn?" As for getting arrested for reading gay stories... I live in the south. If you don't live in the U.S. or have studied U.S. history from the south, I guess you wouldn't know the situation. Things here can be so backwards, that about two years ago people were trying to re-enforce a law that was still on the books from the Pilgrim days that said unmarried people couldn't live together. Basically, it was against the law to have a live in boyfriend/girlfriend. If that's not bad enough, I played cover for a gay friend the whole four years of high school. Why? Because the guy who was bi was found out and was getting attacked not only by guys, but girls too (teachers weren't fond of him either). So yes, I wouldn't put it pass the courts here to put someone in jail for reading something about gay relationships. Believe me, things are getting so out of hand here, people don't even want to call the police for help anymore.
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Re: No Subject by Lagito on December 16th, 2008, 10:30pm

Are you from the US?
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Re: No Subject by drunkguy on December 12th, 2008, 11:14pm

Up until recently, people could be arrested for engaging in anal sex (A.K.A.- Sodomy) in parts of the U.S. as a measure to discourage homosexuality. You really can't say for certain that an element of homophobia wasn't/isn't in play for this case. As for teens having sex, yes, it is definitely illegal in the U.S. for people under 18 to engage in pornography. It is not illegal for depictions to be made of completely fictional characters to engage in sexual activity so long as it is not deemed obscene. The problem is, obscene in the U.S. is far different in comparison to every other part of the world including Japan. Hell, obscene in Iowa is far different from New York, Las Vegas or Florida.
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Re: No Subject by nasztia on December 13th, 2008, 12:44am

In lots of normal countries all around the world, age of consent is around 16 and such (making characters in high school aged over 16 having sex not illegal). Why should the rest of the words accept america's warped standards?
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... by blibli on December 12th, 2008, 9:08pm

So... technically, if I were to buy a book....let's say Ai Yori Aoshi... the last book....(which I have...) They (FBI and etc) have the right to bust in my room, and just arrest me for reading the book... They may as well going S.W.A.T'ing into Tokyopop building and busting same asses... What exactly is the difference between buying it in Japan from mail, and buying it in a local Barnes and Noble... Back to Ai Yori Aoshi... I PURELY read it for entertainment....no...not that kind of entertainment....more as in something to read, and something to keep me from being bored as hell. For an imaginative person like me, not to be cocky or arrogant, I could easily imagine a scene with my own brain from reading a textbook or novel. SO in the end...they may as well burn all the books in the U.S, I live in the U.S and I feel like almost all of my rights are being stripped away... I may not make any sense because I'm pretty damn pissed off...
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No Subject by willdabeast on December 12th, 2008, 9:30pm

The idiots spending millions doing this meaningless shit are on the same level as the child molesters themselves. I even have some inkling that it's a ploy to detract people away from the real issues. You really think these agencies have unlimited income at their disposal? For example, let's say you got 7 locked rooms, and you have 3 keys, and in 2 of those rooms is a molester locked in with a small child. One of the locked doors sits Christopher Handley buying his manga and you already know which door it is but instead of using all 3 of your keys to unlock the other doors you instead open Handley's door and hope you're lucky with the other 2 keys you have left. These guys aren't out to protect children, they're only trying to make a show of trying to, and it is utterly disgusting the amounts of money they waste in the process. Rant off.
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My thoughts by SwordsRCool on December 12th, 2008, 9:31pm

I don't really see why the government would try to block drawn kiddy porn. I think completely stopping actual child porn would help many times more. Since the drawn version probably suppresses certain people's urges. I mean if your super into that stuff and you suddenly can't get any relief... Certain people might do something they'd regret later. Let people live in fantasy worlds on their own, just don't let that stuff cross over into real life.
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sheesh... by ese on December 12th, 2008, 9:46pm

whatever the f*** is this is too much! geez, they're now desperate just like my country. or should I say busybody? i mean, what's the problem w/ just to buy/order manga? unless we did 'that' stuff in real life.
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No Subject by Elcrane on December 12th, 2008, 10:02pm

They're going to stop producing porn movies too, right? Don't think so. Poor guy can't even read in the comfort of his own home, what happened to personal freedom? Why is he the only one arrested? I'm sure there are few hundred (thousands?) more people who probably ordered and bought the same thing. Or was he arrested for being a guy who reads yaoi, but aren't there other guys who read them too. Guess we should all pack our routers and leave the interweb, who knows what else they might track us down for.
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Gravitation by keikii on December 12th, 2008, 10:10pm

I find it funny that no one has mentioned gravitation seeing as it is a yaoi its been a while since i've seen the anime and read the manga, but i'm sure that shuichi does NOT look over 18 in gravitation. and that's distributed legally by tokyopop. imagine the amount of 14 year old high school girls that could get arrested because they own gravitation. also, i've read all the gravitation megamixes and remixes. i know what is in those. it's not light material amazing what this country has gone to do to take away our rights
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the law... by lchen on December 12th, 2008, 10:31pm

from what i remember about the law, it states that it applies to drawn art if it's indistinguishable from a photograph which we all know would not be the case in 99.99999% of manga. but we can't predict what a jury or judge might think/do. however if they do manage to convict, this case will undoubtedly be appealed to higher courts. and somewhere along the line they will find that his case does not meet the stature and possibly rule the law to be unconstitutional altogether.
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Re: the law... by leoak on December 12th, 2008, 10:44pm

Oh, I hope so. Let's hope the jury has actual members of his peers and there's a few anime/manga fans or at the very least, people who understand. The longer this is dragged out in court, the more determine the fanatical minority will be to try to make it illegal.
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Why investigate????? by Curium on December 13th, 2008, 12:28am

I admit I only skimmed the later posts, but I didn't see anyone ask this. Why did the authorities investigate the manga to begin with? Isn't that his private mail? Shouldn't it have been in a non-descript cardboard box for shipping? I want to know what triggered the cops to check the guys mail to begin with. Almost sounds like this "authority" was already targetting the guy before and just used what he could to get him.
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Re: Why investigate????? by bunnyhugger on December 13th, 2008, 12:51am

In theory, for the protection of the country, postal workers have legal rights to inspect suspicious packages In this case the worker thought this package for japan was suspicious and opened it. Freaked out about the pseudo kiddie porn, and called the FBI to investigate.
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Re: Why investigate????? by willdabeast on December 13th, 2008, 12:56am

Word of mouth probably spread around about the kind of stuff he was into and eventually was heard by the wrong people. On top of that he used legal methods to buy his manga, which is a lot more easily traced than if he used some obscure site to download it all. Speaking of which, I got Ranma 1/2 manga where I'm sure there are a few scenes with Ranma topless and we all know he's 16. Better scan that shit in, encrypt it, and burn the physical evidence.
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about time by akuma_river on December 13th, 2008, 12:41am

This happened back in October and I know it hit the comic industry fast and spread through the ranks and now it's finally reaching the manga level. This case really pisses me off because it's the neo-cons with their "child porn" yelling that are trying to impose more restrictions on art and what is obscene. This is not the first case of the PROTECT Act, Adam Walsh Act, and Miller Test. Do any of you recall the HUGE blow up over the Harry Potter fanart that happened on LiveJournal and spread through the ranks of the online world? This is that exact same situation only the Feds got involved because he ordered his stuff from Japan and it went through the mail which is federal territory. If this was me, I would be suing the state and the Post Office, they invaded his personal property. The Post Office opened up his mail and then called the Feds and the Feds followed him home. They raided his place looking for ACTUAL child porn, because they were told he was actually buying CHILD PORN. They tore through his place, his computer, and confiscated everything and jailed on the charge of Child porn. When they couldn't FIND ANY child porn they realized they screwed up. And they had to charge him with something so went with the case. The Judge throw out the charge of child porn, because, hey the guy didn't have any child porn. But because the stuff offended this religious and conservative area... My god the man is reading GAY COMIC PORN!!! They went with obscenity. If this was a fair trial, the guy would get off and be able to sue them for defamation of his character, illegal search, etc. But it's not, so he needs all the money he can get. It's art and if he gets convicted he still fight on grounds of appeal. Because hey, the PROTECT Act, Adam Walsh Act are being tried on ground of unconstitutionality by the Porn Industry on certain parts that effect the perception of obscenity and art. There is a lot going on and this just goes to show you that you can NEVER let yourself belief that no one is trying to take away your rights, because the Christian Right, is ALWAYS working to get rid of porn because it OFFENDS them. snorts If nothing else, PROP 8's passing just goes to show that they are willing funnel millions into a cause they believe in. And nothing offends the Christian Right more than GAY PORN!
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No Subject by CountMist on December 13th, 2008, 1:12am

This to me seems like a typical political pretense where... ...Policy makers try to get reelected by making vague but seemingly morally correct laws, which, in reality, just relocate public funds from current important issues to something with less of a priority. ...Police try to show they are doing something, because they haven't solved the last 50 homicide cases and haven't prosecuted the last hundred sexual offenders. ==== Below is my political view, it has nothing to do with this case, pls don't flame ========== Spoiler (highlight to view) I sure hope the new administration will get their priorities right, or we are going to get stuck with this economy for quite awhile. A simple fund allocation mistake is the Iraq War. Our initial goal after 9/11 was to capture Bin Laden. With the trillions of dollars we poured into Iraq, the US could definitely make a human wall around Afghanistan, and scan the whole country inch by inch. As to how we still haven't captured Bin Laden, it is well beyond any fictional story. Another example would be the Detroit Big 3. Instead of doing a simple market survey on what consumers really want, they just invested in executives who don't even know how to make a proper proposal (No plan + Private Jet???!! what is this? a relaxing vacation? COME ON) Below is an article, published by the Law School of Duke University, detailing a US Supreme Court Case on Visual Child Pornography. http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dltr/articles/2002dltr00 19.html I am begging the state officials to spend our tax money more wisely.
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Re: No Subject by akuma_river on December 13th, 2008, 4:30am

Ummm... CCPA got tossed out for being too broad in it's scope, it was replaced with the PROTECT Act in 2003, which is the new and current standard. The Adam Walsh Act added new things to the PROTECT Act and as such parts of the AWA and PROTECT Act are now being tried in cases as unconstitutional. Already parts of the PROTECT Act were tossed out. So...that link you gave is a bit outdated on the concept. And the virtual child porn thing was about actual photo-like computer renditions of children. Not drawn figures is...was protected by the PROTECT Act...before the Adam Walsh Act was passed...which counters part of that and upholds it to the Miller Test. This is the first actual testing of the new acts due to the AWA enforcing and circumventing parts of the PROTECT Act. Oh and I agree completely. The Right had better stay the hell out of this...I'm just waiting for Viz or Tokyopop to make a stand... Because I know for sure this is not the end and it will come down to money.
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GAAAH by Guest on December 13th, 2008, 1:20am

this, amazon.co.jp have quietly decided to ban a huge variety of adult products: WARNING: NSFW link http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/12/10/amazon-bans-lolicon-av-eroge-follow/ the world slowly descends back into the dark ages where not only books, but also its author, can be burned for 'violating the laws of god' somebody must act
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Re: GAAAH by Guest on December 13th, 2008, 1:25am

well im not serious on the 'somebody must act' part ^^
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*BULL FCKING SHT!!!!!* by Shuu-chan on December 13th, 2008, 1:24am

This is why I REALLY hate America. I live here and all these guy bashing/hating bastards are really starting to PISS ME THE HELL OFF!!! Obscenity? I'm not a law buff, but I thought, to be charged, it had to have been towards someone or publicly. How could they do this to a poor guy who just wants to read some yaoi? Through me in jail then motherfckers!!! I guess I'm a goddamn criminal!!! I guess that rapists, child molesters, drug dealers, murderers and the like are no longer the problem, but a guy into yaoi is!?!?! I hope all the prosecutors die horrible painful deaths!!!! Some one please explain to me exaclty how you can be charged with obscenity because I obviously don't know. FCKING BULL SH*T!!!!
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*Re: BULL FCKING SHT!!!!!* by Shuu-chan on December 13th, 2008, 1:27am

I meant "Gay bashing" not "guy bashing" lol. Totally different subject.
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*Re: BULL FCKING SHT!!!!!* by Guest on December 13th, 2008, 1:34am

at least America is still better than those ultraconservative nations im living in Indonesia, we just breathe the fresh air of democracy and freedom in 1998. but i fear sooner or later it would be the 'Islamic Republic of Indonesia' if the islamic fundamentalists group here still allowed to roam free and continue lobbying government to apply 'sharia laws'(islamic laws). heck, two weeks ago our stupid president just signed anti-porn and nudity law, that was protested by many civil rights movements.
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*Re: BULL FCKING SHT!!!!!* by vietangelix on December 13th, 2008, 1:35am

You can get arrested for anything here -0-.
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crap by jijiey on December 13th, 2008, 3:24am

Really its just a 2d anyway its not real... so what after this the gonna shut arrest people who plays h-game / eroge or shutting down manga shop. Geez...
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Re: crap by Mr.Two on December 13th, 2008, 3:52am

where is the common sense and logic
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Re: crap by jijiey on December 13th, 2008, 9:00am

sorry about that, im in emotional state while typing that sentences. lol
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Re: crap by Mr.Two on December 14th, 2008, 8:46pm

I was agreeing with you jijey sorry I didn't word it right
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nani? by Mr.Two on December 13th, 2008, 4:02am

I just read in one of those links that Gaiman said that he drew fictional minor sex for storytelling so that means that Gantz and stories that have a plotline are safe from the feds...I think
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My View by jianime_rocks on December 13th, 2008, 4:24am

I, for one, am reading yaoi mangas and it just freaks me out to know that a person was actually charged because of mangas, I also own some Junjou Romantica Licensed Copies (Printed in the USA) and just glad that I live in the Philippines because I can't imagine our house being raided due to some printed materials. I definitely have decided to never live in America someday. If any of these laws actually pass and everything gets too overboard, then I'd just love to relocate myself to the home of mangas, Japan, where anime and manga definitely would not be banned, probably ever.
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What by mrsatan on December 13th, 2008, 5:25am

So technically under that act wouldn't at least 90 percent of all porn be deemed "obscene"? I don't understand the charges if they dropped the minor thing.
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*Sigh* by Dr. Love on December 13th, 2008, 5:43am

I'm not even going to dirty any words on this...
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No Subject by kaeleer on December 13th, 2008, 5:44am

Wait.... I haven't actually seen anyone ask where the hell this guy was living. Certain areas in the US have stricter laws concerning porn in general than other ones. And in small town, extremely conservative areas things like this may be possible. But if you're living in a larger area (and by larger I mean like greater than 10,000) generally moderate area, I doubt they'll come banging on your door about reading yaoi, hentai, or porn in general. [Shota and lolicon are another matter entirely] Its just a matter of knowing the laws in your area and its views
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Re: No Subject by Dr. Love on December 13th, 2008, 6:19am

You obviously haven't read the article clearly, it says Iowa.
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Sad by 50carrots on December 13th, 2008, 7:05am

That's sad. Why would It matter what we read anyways? There is so much worse porn everywhere on the internet. Heck even youtube could get more explicit easily. Chirs Handley should be FREED >
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Oh my... by NightSwan on December 13th, 2008, 7:29am

That's ridicules... How can there be absurd laws like this? People can buy all kinds of porn, but not manga?... I don't live in the US, my country is probably too lazy to bother, and it's a good thing. Who cares what people read behind closed doors... Fine, protect the children from things they see everywhere by not letting them read manga. Are they trying to do their parents' job? And besides, since when can people start restricting what others read? And I'm not talking abut little kids. This whole thing is absurd... I agree. How long is it before even the more innocent reading material will be checked, and our privacy will be broken into....
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No Subject by noisette on December 13th, 2008, 7:39am

This is absurd. What about the package made the Postal Inspector suspicious enough to open and riffle through the contents? I'd sure as hell like to know because I'm expecting a shipment Dr. Ten and Hoshino Lily manga to be dropped off at my doorstep next Friday, and it would be nice if the police didn't come with it. I would really like to know just what titles they are referring to in this case.
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*rolls eyes* by Name-Undecided on December 13th, 2008, 7:41am

You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. There's no way this guy is going to get 20 years for buying manga, geez. And if he did, so what? If that's the law, that's the law. If your state law says depictions of sex are obscene, that's what your law says. Rage against it, fine. Try to get it changed, fine. But if you don't want trouble, don't break it. Silly Americans and their lack of personal responsibility.
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Re: rolls eyes by fouloldron on December 13th, 2008, 8:06am

This is all about precendent. Furthermore, not even lawyers keep upto date on what all the latest amendments and interpretations are. How can an ordinary person be expected to? Particularly when it's just a manga? I understand you're opinion, but he was being charged with a recent amendment. Which, hilariously, turned out to be unconstitutional. How can an ordinary citizen obey the law when the lawmakers can't even compose them correctly? Such a situation could be applied to any country and if you did not know it was illegal, don't think it should be illegal, is it not logical to fight a criminal charge? However, you are entitled to your opinion. Ronnie.
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Re: rolls eyes by Aleph0 on December 13th, 2008, 1:19pm

Even if he doesn't do a day of prison or the law gets repealed, the legal bill is easily going to run in the thousands of $, so a very real damage has already been done. I really hope he can sue that dummy postal inspector for anything he's got, because a few mangas - yaoi or otherwise - obviously can't menace the national security so he was acting outside of his remit.
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Re: rolls eyes by drunkguy on December 13th, 2008, 4:22pm

People wouldn't be making such a fuss if he knew he was potentially breaking the law. As far as he knew, all he was doing was buying manga. Seeing as this is going to trial, he may very well be judged to have not.
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Mmm... by fouloldron on December 13th, 2008, 7:59am

I find this quite an interesting response from the country of first person shooters e.g. Grand Theft Auto which certainly features a lot of obscene and vulgar material. Also if they are doing such censorship it will have to be applied to all art forms including written works, which can feature some pretty hard stuff. Personal opinion of course. O.k. I read Yaoi, Shounen ai and very, very rarely shota (4 to date), and I read 2 of the shota because I really like Haruka Minami and C.J. Michalski and wanted to see what they did with the genre and the other 2 I didn't even realise were shota until I saw the MU classification and went back to check the school uniforms. Now I respect that many people don't like this. I don't like Loli or Horror or Hentai, etc. However, just because I like homosexual manga doesn't mean I condone child abuse or rape. I certainly would never look at real pornography featuring children. The mere idea of sexually abusing any one, let alone a child, makes me feel physically ill and emotionally repulsed by the person carrying out such behaviour. Manga is an art form used to explore all possible representations of a reality. This is why there are so many genera, each with their own following. I do think this charge is ridiculous and think that the americans should spend their time and money combating the child trafficing which occurs within their own country. And if we're really worried about abuse in manga let's start with the ones depicting hard core rape, regardless of gender or age, without any negative consequences, and at least include a page about the real effects of rape in each book. Furthermore I find that the shota I've encountered mainly features children happily choosing to have sex with each other, not older men preying on children, and the only manga with such a plot point shows it as extremely emotionally damaging for the boy. My apologies if this was rambling and makes no sense. I'm glad that at least some people are helping him, and glad that I will never live in the US. Ronnie.
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Gaiman on Freedom of Speech by noisette on December 13th, 2008, 8:10am

If you guys get a chance, read Neil Gaiman's "Why Defend Freedom of Icky Speech?" here: http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedo m-of-icky-speech.html ...especially if you're on the fence about whether or not to take up arms for something you really aren't into. Like lolican or yaoi. Spread the word and donate to the CBLDF if you can!
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lol :( by vojo85 on December 13th, 2008, 8:58am

Hahaha im so glad im not from a free contry like Americe where you can do what you like...or not My country realy has no problem with what people read so informations like this one can only show me where i dont want to go ever!
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Re: lol :( by anime_lover122488 on December 13th, 2008, 9:35am

Which country is that? Anyhow, this is so ridiculous. Just because of the manga he bought, he was searched for child porn, which he didn't have, so the police just charges you for something else that's not even illegal. All the while, you lose all your stuff that you accumulated for so long. Really feel sorry for the guy.
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No Subject by Catriona on December 13th, 2008, 10:12am

This is pretty sick. Just before I get started I want to point out that this post is in no way meant to insult or offend any person in particular, I've got some friends in the US. This post is directed at the politics of the US. My views on the US and the hypocritical politics it drives isn't that high to begin with but it feels they just hit a new all-time low. What's with the slogan " The land of the free"? If people have to be afraid of ordering manga (stories made by pictures and such which a slight resemblance to regular comics) just because they might face a trial and prosecution that slogan is the height of hypocrisy. In that case, do they also prosecute people who read romance novels (where the contents can be quite graphic if I remember correctly) or for that matter Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler (or whatever they're called)? If that's so I'm sure quite a large number of US citizens (teenage boys for example) would probably be standing accused right about now. It's just sad to see, considering for example that the politics of US (as well as quite a bit of their lifestyle) affects the rest of the world to such a degree.
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No Subject by kmits on December 13th, 2008, 10:53am

This is just STUPID. This is why I'm scared to buy manga. I live in a pretty liberal state but a somewhat smaller town, so to get manga I'd have to go to the city or get it through mail. I can't trust that my privacy will be protected so I do neither. Shouldn't they be spending their time on actual child predators, or stopping people from being forcefully whored for money. There are women, children and men being enslaved in this country and the government is focusing on manga. Do they not have more important issues to take care of.
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This is STUPID and a waste of time. by Saber on December 13th, 2008, 12:32pm

donated to the cause Of all the things that people are concerned about. This is the stupidest. Good money wasted on something so trival. I really hope that that guy gets off. I feel that people should buy and read what they want to read, granted, some genres like yaoi, shota/loli, hentai, horror, etc aren't my thing. But the important thing to remember is that manga is NOT REAL! If they want to charge "obscene" and "objectionable," go charge those buying/downloding real porn.
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We Don't Suck That Much, so Handley May Be Okay! by noisette on December 13th, 2008, 1:04pm

Not that I am a flag-waving nationalist in the slightest, but there are all these posts talking about how "awful" it is in the United States so I thought I should say a little something in defense of my tuft of dirt on this planet. Or at least, something that puts this situation into perspective for people that aren't from the US. Listen up. The prominence of certain social values in public in the US, be they conservative or liberal, life depends a large part in what state you're from; they are not the same in every part of the US. One of the reasons that this happened to this poor guy is that he is from Iowa. Now, Iowa is a very, very, very socially conservative state. A lot of people with openly fundamentalist, evangelical Christian views call Iowa their home. If Christopher Handley was from California, New York, Oregon, Massachusetts or any other socially liberal (usually coastal) state the chances of this happening to him would have been lower to none. Even if he was from a state where politically people are conservative yet generally believe that the best government is little government - New Mexico or Montana, for instance - he probably would be fine. The fact of the matter is that Handley is living in the wrong place at the wrong time. The current presidential administration in this country was in large part built by the Christian Right, and with Bush as president they attained a lot of power in public life (this happened before, too, during the Reagan administration). And they are especially pro-active in places where are lots of people who share their views. Like Iowa (and most of middle, farm-country America). And even if the people who went through Handley's mail aren't religious conservatives, Iowa is still not a place liberal or progressive views about anything from right-to-privacy to same-sex marriage are held by the majority. They will go through your stuff if they think that it is for the better of the "community" (that is, people who think like them). So that's a large part of how I think this happened at all. And it also one of the main reasons that I think he will be okay in the end. Freedom of Speech is so hotly contested, debated, and defended in this country all the time that in way you could say that this trial is nothing special. It is very important for manga and comic readers because is the first that anyone will be prosecuted for actually owning obscene material. But not everyone who is going to be helping this dude out are social conservatives from the Mid-west. He's going to have supporters from all over the place with much more progressive views - or should I say, mainstream views? Because even if most people do not agree with what someone is saying or enjoying the general attitude most Americans have towards free speech is that it is necessary and fundamental to society and should be preserved at all costs. This is the reason that the Klu Klux Klan is allowed to erect crosses in Fountain Square in my hometown of Cincinnati. Trust me, we hate it, hate with a passion. But we know that if we put up a law preventing the Klan from "expressing" themselves (bleh), then that same law could be used to prevent us from expressing ourselves in the future. Many people in the US understand that the law does not make neat distinctions, so I think Handley will be cool in the end. If manga and comic fans in the US get the word out we can drum up a lot of support for this guy. And when Bush leaves office, I know things will change. I don't think that the Christian right is going to be so bold and cocky once their open supporter in the White House leaves ('cause President-Elect Obama sure as hell isn't their friend). But why wait? We should do what we can now! And I would suggest to Mr. Handley, after all of this is done, that he consider moving somewhere else.
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Donation by bluegenjutsu on December 13th, 2008, 2:40pm

I donated too. Since I am a reader of yaoi manga and have read some shotacon, I am hoping this guy won't go to jail and his case ends up being thrown out. It's not just this Handley guy's rights that have been abused but the rights of every person that loves to read or enjoys looking at art in the privacy of their own homes. It can even affect fans of anime, also. This guy was not hurting anyone and it's wrong to say that what someone does in private, that doesn't affect/harm other people, is something that the government should be allowed to attack. The one being harmed with the government's case is Handley and the government is not in any way doing this for the protection of anyone. I believe though, that this guy will get off because this case is unconstitutional.
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In short... by riney25 on December 13th, 2008, 8:46pm

Ridiculous. Simply, and utterly ridiculous.
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so ammm... by saxon1231 on December 13th, 2008, 9:03pm

Thats kinda weird cause i could swear that there was a case saying that drawn graphic images are not the same as real images, i.e. hentai is not porn, and that they cannot be tried or even considered the same thing. But what ever if they would dare to do that to me, I'd just take a magnet to my HD lol.
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... by ALazyCat on December 13th, 2008, 9:07pm

So, even though this has been beaten to death with a very big stick, it has gotten me thinking. The continual tug-of-war between Public and Private, how to protect kids, how to protect people's views, the average person. America is a great place, and I mean that very seriously, we have the freedom to challenge the government, we have the freedom to disagree. Yes, we have our limits, and yes, we all disagree with the limits occasionally. When is the government allowed to invade our private lives? When are they allowed to control our public? Comics aren't necessarily new, in fact, they could be eons old if you're counting the drawings on cave walls, eon perhaps being an over exaggeration in this case. But when Motion Pictures were new, they were denied free speech, subject to a censor board and everything (this was in 1915), because they might be used for evil. Now, to give some credit to the folks of that time, motion pictures have made us generally apathetic toward all of the violence and sex that we see in movies, but that means that our Community Standards have changed as a whole. That court case was a few years ago now, and it's almost the year 2009, so is it right that comics, which as fans of anime and manga, we consider a form of art, a statement, our speech, should they be censored?
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Re: ... by drunkguy on December 14th, 2008, 6:50pm

I've always been a proponent of the "clear and present danger" rule regarding free speech and art. So long as it doesn't cause an immediate hazard, it is fine. As for protecting kids, that's what good parenting is for. Saying you can't watch over your kids all of the time is too often used as an excuse to explain away failures instead of working to try to prevent and fix them.
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So wait by sefinalishehalif on December 13th, 2008, 9:32pm

Now yaoi isn't allowed? I have only read a few series, the first of which is Loveprize in Viewfinder. Which is sold in the USA, and can be bought at Amazon.com and Barnes and Nobles, and I know cause I've seen it being sold there online. So that's illegal? While its still being sold? Cause I think we all agree that the first chapter in Viewfinder is pretty dang graphic. Well, I just wanted to point this out. I could on this topic for a while....
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lets be serious by SCKing88 on December 13th, 2008, 10:33pm

i read a LOT of the opinions here, and its not that they should be dismissed; but the dude obviously didn't have the regular ecchi manga or something that could be taken as a joke if they choose to arrest him for it. sorry but i'm going to go ahead and take sides with the law on this one, IF the guy indeed had some heavy shota/loli or some crazy rape manga than in all due respect he should go to jail for a bit, NOT 20 years though lmao; thats a little excessive, maybe a month and simply have him burn the stuff
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Re: lets be serious by bluegenjutsu on December 13th, 2008, 10:59pm

So, you are saying that a person should go to jail for having a manga that has shota/loli or even rape in it, then how about the people that have watched on tv or at the theaters, movies or even tv shows that have this same material for public viewing (not just private, like in one's home)? Or anyone that reads any book, fictional or otherwise that has to do with anything concerning these subjects? Sorry, but that would mean millions of people deserve to go to jail then.
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Re: lets be serious by willdabeast on December 14th, 2008, 12:22am

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Do you even realize how much money it would cost to have the ownership of fictional material suddenly become a crime? Money that can be spent on REAL criminals? As much as I don't like the loli/shouta stuff someone who is into that stuff does NOT equate to sexual predator. If that was the case then even more interactive media such as violent video games would see a correlating rise in violent crimes but yet the opposite has happened. And you also show total ignorance of what being convicted of a sexual act or crime of any nature represents. Even if this guy gets only one month in prison it's very likely he will be on the sexual predator list for the rest of his life. City decides to built a school close to your house? You're going to have to move, too bad. That is not reasonable AT ALL.
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Re: lets be serious by drunkguy on December 14th, 2008, 1:33pm

Gotta commend you for being brave enough to to post that opinion. The number of people here itching to flame you is probably sky high despite the fact you're part of a sizable minority. Personally, while I can understand the disdain some people may feel for the material he may be carrying, honestly, he bought it legitimately from an overseas retailer. It isn't as if he went to a back alley to buy a gun and some crack. It's like he went to a Barnes and Noble, bought a trashy book and got arrested for it. That's what people here are railing against.
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Re: lets be serious by SCKing88 on December 14th, 2008, 2:07pm

haha, i'm not really concering with the idiots on here who flame someone for stating their opinion, it just singles out who to ignore... as for him buying it legitimately, that may be the case over there; but he should really have checked our laws on that material first, i'm just saying that the arrst itself is actually quite valid... nevertheless they could be trying to figure out the murder down the street instead of being concerned about what a person reads
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Re: lets be serious by drunkguy on December 14th, 2008, 6:37pm

Not quite. The kiddie porn charge was ruled invalid by the courts. Now only the obscenity charges are in question. Considering how subjective the process of determining what constitutes obscene material is, it is hard to fault anyone for purchasing something deemed obscene in one area and simply distasteful to others. Valid or not, the guy is innocent until proven guilty and we ain't the jury. It's up to the knuckleheads in the court to do that. That said, if he is ruled guilty, I do hope he gets the twenty years just to illustrate how fucked up the system in Iowa is.
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Re: lets be serious by SCKing88 on December 14th, 2008, 9:53pm

well, being valid doesn' mean hes guilty; its simply valid charges, but if he gets 20 for obscenity that'd be quite messed up -_- like i said before, with a charge like that you don't deserve more than a night or two... and then it HAS TO BE PROVEN that it was heavy, sick, disgusting shota/loli/rape manga that he ordered, not something like Cherry x Cherry <--- perfect example of what he better not be getting arrested for
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Re: lets be serious by SCKing88 on December 14th, 2008, 10:00pm

also, even if the "kiddie" charge was dismissed the obscenity charge has to be directed at the same area, there cant be much room to charge obscenity over a h manga if its not about the h
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Re: lets be serious by drunkguy on December 15th, 2008, 1:42am

Technically, only the arrest was valid, not necessarily the charges. If he is judged guilty, then the obscenity charge is valid. As for what they may be holding against him, I wouldn't discount anything. We have no idea what books, much less what panels, are being used to prosecute him. For all we know they are trying to hang him for a Gunsmith Cats tankobon published by Dark Horse Comics. It had quite a bit of drugs, rape and murder. "Minnie" May Hopkins, a lead intentionally designed to look like she was an elementary school student, had lots of explicit sex. They don't have to prove he has "heavy, sick, disgusting shota/loli/rape manga." They have to prove the stuff he had fails the "Miller test." If the stuff offends the average person in the community and every juror sees no literary, artistic, political or scientific value in the work, it's obscene. And no, porn (a.k.a.- H) by itself is not obscene.
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Re: lets be serious by SCKing88 on December 15th, 2008, 8:34am

nobody said porn itself is obcene, but it had to be in whatever way it was potrayed in whatever manga/comics this man bought; thus both charges were originally aimed at the same area of this manga, and i'm sure if its a "heavy, sick, disgusting shota/loli/rape manga." it WILL fail the test
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Re: lets be serious by drunkguy on December 15th, 2008, 9:56am

Not true. Heavy, sick, disgusting shota/loli/rape stories may offend but such content does not automatically make it devoid of any literary or artistic value, a part of the third question in the Miller Test. Urotsukidoji, the grandfather of tentacle rape and guro stories, contained plenty of gruesome underaged rape and murder but, for better or worse, it has been an inspiration for entire genres.
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*Complete and utter bullsht** by archspiritadvent on December 13th, 2008, 11:37pm

This is completely retarded. Whatever happened to the Bill of Rights? People should have the choice to read whatever the hell they want. Whatever we want to read we should have the right to do it. I have no words to describe the stupidity of being arrested for reading porn. What he wants to read for his personal entertainment is no ones business but his. Individual rights seem to be dwindling by the second.
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*Re: Complete and utter bullsht** by bluegenjutsu on December 14th, 2008, 9:43am

I agree. This case is about a person's individual rights, not just as a certain citizen of a country but also as a human being.
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*Re: Complete and utter bullsht** by samanthaknd on December 14th, 2008, 10:25am

so true! I like yaoi/shounen-ai actually, I am a female but even if I was male it should be MY choice wether I read yaoi or not. I think this case is a waste of time and should be thrown out at court.
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No Subject by MoJo on December 14th, 2008, 11:21am

Now this seems like scare tactics for the CBLDF. This is a real case and I take this seriously but the point your trying to make is being detracted from buy the blatant pug for a hand out.
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Re: No Subject by magicbulletgirl on December 14th, 2008, 5:30pm

nods I read the story as it started to come out more on manga related sites and at first I was as worried as anyone else about their manga (not that I have much to be scared about anyway - Viz edited Midori Days) - but as I thought about it more the domino theory doesn't work in this case. As long as we can show a manga uses nudity, sex, etc for the story, then we'll be okay. Don't forget that there are some american comics with just as much "obscene" material. We have pretty lax standards for material and if the facts we are being given, such as that he only had a few volumes of questionable material out of thousands, are true then the charges will be dropped and the manga returned. I have faith in my justice system.
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Re: No Subject by archspiritadvent on December 14th, 2008, 6:10pm

Actually, the bill of rights gives you basic INDIVIDUAL freedoms that the government CAN'T take away. So any law that takes those freedoms away can be declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court and therefore blasted into nothingness. I don't see where u get this "freedom to take away freedoms" crap. Countries like that where they can take away any freedom they want are called totalitarian dictatorships, you know, like nazi germany way back then.
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Re: No Subject by archspiritadvent on December 14th, 2008, 6:11pm

lol whoops clicked wrong reply button, this was meant for the post bellow V V V V V
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Nation devoted to FREEDOM! by o0James0o on December 14th, 2008, 4:19pm

i believe you all have known that U.S. is a god damned nation devoted to FREEDOM - that means the freedom to take away your freedom... it is meaningless to argue anymore, it is just how the nation are... if it wasn't, how would there be all those banned books?... now now, to those who live in U.S. or love U.S. or think its awesome or etc... LONG LIVE FREEDOM!!!!!
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Think of moving to japan by natalus on December 14th, 2008, 5:49pm

well since i love these stuff i think, it's better to move to japan ^_^
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Re: Think of moving to japan by drunkguy on December 14th, 2008, 6:53pm

I wouldn't bother. Idiocy like this happens everywhere. Best to fight it out first and then flee the country if things don't work out. Preferably to a place that doesn't have extradition treaties with said country of origin.
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WTF?! AHAHAHAHA! U got to be kidding me... by Onizuka on December 14th, 2008, 7:05pm

Omfg ffs wtf?! This is ridiculous... Regardless of what he's reading, 20 yrs in prison for reading MANGA?! We're talking about made up stories, black and white, on paper, non moving, NOT REAL, DRAWINGS and letters... FCKING INK AND PAPER! 20 fcking years ppl, think about it. People get less for killing someone or rape in REAL LIFE. Bureaucracy has gone MAD and is in a SAD state. Obscenity my ass. It's entirely subjective. This is laughable. Before you know it, another war is going to start between two countries, i think you can guess which two... The cause? F*cking manga... Shit, what has the world come to these days... What are they going to do next? Launch an international investigation to hunt down mangaka and chuck em in Guantanamo or something?! This is ludicrous...
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No Subject by Hikage Idaten on December 14th, 2008, 7:33pm

When is this trial? We should get people to protest. Someone tell Anonymous.
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No Subject by uNpreDicTed on December 15th, 2008, 2:59am

So what have we learned people? Reading illegally online won't do you any harm, but legitimately buying yourself copies will get you 20 years in prison. I really love the US, but sometimes they really live in the opposite world. Obscene or not, manga should never get you 20 years in prison period.
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Re: No Subject by 2H on December 17th, 2008, 3:02am

Well the the US is hilarious from the start. Prostitution is illegal, but if you tape it and sell it it's legal. xD
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Re: No Subject by uNpreDicTed on December 18th, 2008, 1:52pm

haha that is so true
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Hmmm... by Lord_Lucifiel on December 15th, 2008, 4:28am

I love the kinda freedoms the US could offer but it seems to be degenerating into a state run by fascists, bible thumpers included. We'll see what happens under Obama's leadership.
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Absurd by tuldok89 on December 15th, 2008, 4:58am

Authorities breaking into the privacy of your own home, just because you read MANGA...I tell you, this is preposterous.
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Re: Absurd by kujika on December 15th, 2008, 1:18pm

As far as I understand it's not just "because you read manga". You also can't compare it to thriller, horror, mystery. I mean, even people who normally stick to lighter stuff sometimes watch a horror movie. It's suspenseful, it's gory, it's shocking. Hell, even I watch it sometimes even though I'm more the "comedy, romance" kind. But when someone likes to read anything that features kids being raped, what does that say about this person? Now don't say they're afraid of adults or something like this... I'm totally against the invasion of privacy too, but I've got issues with people who jack off on kids porno, no matter in what form.
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Re: Absurd by drunkguy on December 15th, 2008, 2:15pm

Once again, this case is no longer about kiddie porn. It is about a few panels in a few manga in his massive collection that possibly contains material deemed obscene under the law of Iowa. The panels in question could be about adult women having sex with pigs and playing with their excrement for all we know. So long as it possesses any literary or artistic value, and it does not place anyone in immediate harm, then such material, while vile and appalling to most, is not illegal to produce, sell or own. If the work was marketed to kids, if it had hidden messages in it, if it was made using child sex slave as models, then it would be clearly illegal. Right now though, they are just distasteful and provocative panels in bodies of works that may or may not be judged obscene in Iowa depending on the results of the trial. To answer your question about people who jack off to kiddie porn, yes they are sick fucks. So are a hell of a lot of other people. People watch/read/listen to media about killing, doping and raping but we don't arrest them for owning the entire collection of South Park. Punishing people who act out vile deeds is one thing but to punish them for reading total works of fiction involving those topics is another.
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Manga = Graphic Novel by jijaymonz on December 15th, 2008, 1:37pm

Isn't manga basically a form of novels in graphic sense - to tell stories? Then if it so, why they don't banned and charge those novels? If it is to protecting development of "minds", isn't it better just to cut all the movies/novels/etc2. . . If manga is censored, why novels don't? They all associated to what our minds would think of and how we would react on those situation ? If literature -which indulges sex scenes, violence, etc2 in form of words structure - is an art , why comic/manga are not ? - cannot provide any examples right now, but it just as it is. . . how terrible
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Re: Manga = Graphic Novel by vampiremaddy on December 16th, 2008, 10:46am

I agree.. Even if it was paedophilic I still don't think he should be prosecuted.. pictures and videos are mainly wrong because of the exploitation and abuse of the children... DRAWING PERVERTED PICTURES DOES NOT AFFECT THE KIDS. It affects them in no way, and he is not causing anybody any physical or psychological harm, so surely it is much better if he can indulge his perveted fantasies in the secrecy of his own bedroom, not causing any harm to anyone? If perverts can be satisfied by drawings then I think this is an excellent solution to prevent them from purchasing real images or video that genuinly causes huge problems and is morally wrong.
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No Subject by grumpiepeechas on December 15th, 2008, 8:37pm

personally, I feel that all of this stems from an issue with homosexuality and sexual exploitation. People are so fearful that they are ignoring the fact that perfectly decent, normal citizens are allowed kinks. All i basically read is yaoi, is it only acceptable because I am female? Why is it that the post officer had any right to inspect a comic book? Technically in the state I live in it is illegal to purchase hardcore pornography, does this mean that the post office can now rifle through my legally bought porn collection? Why does it matter that he might have drawn material of a questionable nature? Now if his entire collection was shotacon or lolicon, sure I can see a certified member of the psychiatric post office being allowed to question his purchase or more so what his purchase might represent. But what right do they have to judge it acceptable or obscene? I watched a porn once with a girl going down on a guy who had a chocolate eclair over his junk, let me assure you that was obscene. I do not doubt that many males and females would have found it positively appetizing. Perhaps had it been a creme eclair and not chocolate I would not have thought twice, be that as it may I am not about to go sicking the cops on the directory for being dirty. Though may he burn in hell that image has been stuck in my head for over half a decade, thanks. Still, I live in a conservative location and no doubt if the cops ever break down my door I will be in a whole lot more trouble than my male counterpart. No offense to anyone but screw you if you think you have the right to tell me what I find erotic or worth reading. The problem is that if they attack drawn pictures what is to stop them from proceeding to books that have inappropriate depictions written down. And honestly there are a lot of rape scenes that are written for plot and you are not expected to masturbate to, the point is that there is no definitive line that can be determined by any group of persons. The hope that a consensus will be obtained is unlikely. I'm ranting and no one will read this far no doubt, but there it is my opinion is posted in cyberspace for all the word to see. God help the FBI agent that had to riffle through my collection of juicy manga, anime, porn whatever your preference. And good luck to the poor sucker they are attacking, no one deserves to be humiliated or persecuted for buying a book.
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Re: No Subject by drunkguy on December 15th, 2008, 10:18pm

Hardcore porn is technically illegal in your state? I could have swore making/selling/owning your average hardcore porno has always been legal all over the U.S. Otherwise the porn industry wouldn't exist the way it is. I do agree with the observation on how an attack on manga can potentially open the door on an attack on fiction in general. Movies, TV shows, and comics in general would face more pressure to censor content. The written word probably won't be attacked as vigorously because people simply don't read the printed word as much anymore. That and, ironically, the kind of people who would attack such things aren't the type to read such things anyway.
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No Subject by Ixiaz on December 17th, 2008, 4:16am

Jesus, why the hell do americans whine and bitch about muslims, their moral enforcement and double standards, when they are just as bad when it comes to their own morale and double standards. This obessive need to go through peoples stuff, calling things obscene and putting them in jail. What the fuck is obscene ? Massive uselss gore in hollywood movies, or "obscene" gay comics. Ohh noes ! Men having sex! OH SHII!! Christian moralfags all of them. Religious morals + political power = prosecution of normal people doing stuff the "rulers" dont like. Seriously, i like moderate christians, but move a bit into the future america. Gay is okey. moralfags. JESUS !
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... augh by Shinumi on December 18th, 2008, 8:02am

We all know that manga is beyond the standards, there are as many shota and loli going around as there's the common Shoujo and Shounen. Most of the guys who read Hentai don't go around the world looking for girls with knockers bigger than the rest of the girls body. Most of the Mayu Shinjo fans don't hook up with violent rapist good looking teachers... And I may have liked "Dear Mine" by Shigeru Takao, but like hell I'm going to start dating a guy 7 years younger than me, I don't want to end up in jail for a brat. The problem is that different countries have different laws on the matter, most people believe that reading manga is wrong, reading manga about loli and shota is even worse. I don't agree with putting a guy in jail for buying shota unless they can prove that the guy is mentally capable of going around raping kids.
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oh my gods by NarutoVixin on December 18th, 2008, 12:10pm

i hope they never let the manga Bitter Virgin over here then if they have a fit about Peach Girl.......Most manga i have read are about life and i see one parent that needs to get one. if just owning manga is a bad thing then im up for about 10 years and add another 10 for the anime alone.......i HATE people and parents that just dont care then they read one of their kids books and its "Oh my god i didnt know they had this and i dont want to see it and i dont want her to see it" its stupid and they need to grow up im 28 and i plan to let my son read Peach Girl if he wants to let alone any other manga or anime. when he was born i watched anime with him on my lap his Father watchs anime with him and hes 2 years old next week. it sickens me to read about this kind of prejudice in the news its hard to even Get half the manga i read here in the mid-west of the USA now they want to take a way even more. ill be asking my library about what they do for weeding out some of "bad manga" but as far as they think most are about something that can happen to Any teen.
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Re: oh my gods by Shinumi on December 18th, 2008, 12:50pm

The thing about Peach Girl and Bitter Virgin is that those are things that could very well happen. I'm 23 now and my mother doesn't bother too much about what I read or stop reading, a few years ago my sisters took away a book from me (not a manga, but a novel) called "Veronica decides to die" because I was a teenager and my sister viewed me as "suicidal" I thought she was out of her mind. At the end of the day we would like our children to know the truth, my mother never used petty lies on me on why people behaved like they did, and she was always very extremely concerned that I was well informed about date rape when I was a teenager (it's pretty disturbing to be 10 years old and have your mother tell you not to accept open sodas from your friends unless you've seen them drinking from it first) pedophiles and the like (when I was 5 I remember her telling me that if someone ever touched me to tell her right away, that it was against the law for adults to touch children in "naughty places" Adults believe that children don't need to know about the evils of the world, but that's just the way that other adults manage to taint children, thanks to that ignorance bestowed by parents pedophiles and perverts are able to take advantage of children.
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Ridiculous by se7a on December 19th, 2008, 12:58pm

So, from what I heard, he was buying shotacon and got arrest? Good riddance. The biggest problem with manga comunity is pedoretards. You might say whatever you want, but loli and shotacon try to depict kids having sex or w/e. KIDS. Be they 18+ or not the main reason is for them to look like KIDS. IT IS PEDOPHILLE. And it IS a crime, and one of the wrost. All of you idiots who like Loli or Shotacon should really go to jail and die there. I don't know if he bought yaoi shotacon, but if he did, I seriously hope he not only get arrest, but suffer for the rest of his life. If he didn't and it's just normal yaoi/hentai, then it's just you americans being stupid again, no news there.
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Re: Ridiculous by MrEngenious on December 19th, 2008, 4:27pm

You're being awfully biased there. At least take a moment to put yourself in the shoes of the other side(s), otherwise you're not going to prove your point effectively (unless you're simply stating your opinion without trying to persuade others). Here, take my shoes (I'm a lolicon). My view: None of the is real, therefore it's not a crime until it DOES become real. I've seen a variety of things, loli/shota, rape, tentacles, guro, all that stuff. Thing is, I never wanted to actually do them (except for the things that you would deem "legal" or morally allowed in hentai manga). I have morals and I follow them. Should I really rot in jail for whatever happens to be going on in my head and in my head ONLY? That's what I'm receiving from your post, that even what I think is going to eventually put me in the slammer (and my imagination runs pretty wild compared to what's laying in my hard drive). Now I'm not saying that there aren't people who would watch/read loli/shota and turn into pedophiles, but those are (in my opinion) rare cases. There are many other factors that can contribute to pedophilia and I'm not denying that manga is one potential one. BUT should we all be punished for the rotten apple in the bunch? Lastly, your last line, at least for me, kills any credibility for believing the argument you're presenting. Whether it's your emotions or your own extreme bias, it does not matter as it makes me believe that you're not thinking about this in a focused and intelligent manner.
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Re: Ridiculous by drunkguy on December 19th, 2008, 6:24pm

So does that mean that as long as the character doesn't look like a kid, you are fine with that? What would constitute a character that looks like an adult? Guess you must hate Moetan or Bokusatsu Denshi Dokuro-Chan. Are there any other topics you'd feel comfortable with getting the axe? What about no guro in comics? Rape? Perhaps granny, midget and fat porn are closer on topic? In any case, it isn't a crime to make drawings or write stories of minors engaging in sexual activities so long as they are complete works of fiction that have no direct bearing on any real life minor. This case is accuses the guy of owning a few books that contain panels which may or may not be deemed obscene. Said laws are exceedingly subjective/disputable. The books in question, much less the panels are unknown. For all we know, they could be trying him for owning a copy of Negima. With no precedent regarding the legality of ownership of drawing of such material, the result of this case is pretty much up in the air.
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Re: Ridiculous by fortune-teller on December 20th, 2008, 6:49am

You are being ridicoulous!! Why'd someone reading a shotacon-manga (or similar) be a potential child rapist and someone reading an action-/fantasy-manga like Sanctuary or Naruto not be a potential murderer. He'd be an even more dangerour person if he watched live-action movies. If I remember correctly murder is also a crime. It might be even more serious. So all who enjoy fiction of this genre should rot in jail and suffer for the rest of their life.
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Re: Ridiculous by se7a on December 26th, 2008, 12:19am

Let me make myself clear: All I said and will say are for people who watch hentai with loli or shota. Anything that actually depict kids having sex. And I don't know if that guy was arrested cause he was watching hentai loli/shota, but if he was... Do NOT try to make it sound like morally right by saying it's going in your head. It's almost as sick as if you were doing it. I am not saying that it is legal or not. I am saying that it is NOT right. I, myself, think that people who endorse any type of pedophille, even those people who will never ever do it, who just likes to watch it or draw it or whatever, are sick people and the world would be better off without them. I bet all of you think just like me. I bet you'd never ever admit in your school, jobs or w/e that you watch cartoon with kids having sex; cause you know it's not something to be proud of. And my last line: yes, you americans are so conservative sometimes it's just dumb. Arresting people for no reason. Homo comics are the same as homo porno and they are just normal. IF he was arrested cause he was reading gay shit without kids, it's just you americans being stupid. No one in my country would be arrested because of that. Don't give me that crap about "what would constitute a character that looks like an adult". You know that the characters are supposed to look like kids, and that's what turn you bastards on, right? Pedos. It does not matter if it's just drawing and if it's legal or not, you still want to see kids having sex. That's the point, right? Seeing kids having sex. You are a pedophille, or at least you wanted to be one. And don't give me that crap logic saying that people who watch naruto are the same as murderers. The point in naruto is not to have pleasure in seeing people die, it's action and super-power or w/e. If you like to watch people die, you are almost as sick as people who like to watch kids having sex.
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Re: Ridiculous by fortune-teller on December 26th, 2008, 5:21pm

The point isn't whether Naruto enjoys killing or not, it is how you feel about it. When a super villain is defeated, don't you sometimes feel very satisfied if he dies. I get annoyed when the villain somehow has a change of heart and peacefully goes his way after his defeat (like in Full Ahead! Coco). But if you want someone dead cuz he killed someone else, then you're not really better. They're the same or at least similar primeval emotions of the murderer. And some mangas produce these feelings and would be pretty boring without them. By the way, don't people enjoy killing each other in egoshooters in their deathmatches. You may call it sick, but I'm confident that I and most others can differentiate between reality and fantasy. And why'd you think that a graphical display of children having sex is much worse than e.g. a graphical display of a woman being tortured and raped? Just cuz you find something sick, you want it banished and severely punished?
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Hmmm by akire_and_atem on December 19th, 2008, 7:26pm

You know, what's worse is than most rapist, pedos, etc., are the ones you never imagine them to be ppl act ALWAYS so you never know their true thoughts, I'd be worried about this guy if he was a single male roaming around real life kids and asking them obscene things but if he was in the privacy of his home with no kids around when he was reading, then I don't see where he did wrong... I say investigate politicians and priests, those are the ones who are most likely to commit a crime, why? Because that kind of ppl is the one that has the power and influence enough to get away with it. Well not just them, any person who thinks that is above the law should be halted
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It's not about Shotacon!! by tina21 on December 20th, 2008, 4:26am

- 1st I don't think that the country that released SAW and HOSTEL has any right to censor anything what so ever...!! - 2nd I don't think its about Shotacon, Lolicon, Incest and put whatever you like Hentai, Yaoi, Yuri in this least What one of the cases that might be is the fact that some of this manga are licensed but Western Companies and if they guy bought Japanese once, where you see the conflict of profit...!! And the case is that they entered his house, opened his mail and broke every law that protect this guys PRIVACY...!!!! When and if he ever hit on a 10yr old then he should be arrested but if he is satisfied with jacking off to pics then I say that they didn't have any right...!! Also as I have heard he had a pretty mainstream collection of Manga that those too where confiscated...!!
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double standards by rainflower05 on December 20th, 2008, 8:15am

if shota is the problem why is it again that tittles like Kirepapa and Junjou Romantica are "Licensed (in English)" and sold.. 1 half of the couple are high school kids.. these are just pupolar ones.. i could dig up many more but im lazy... it's nice to see the goverment working to protect kids against pedo.. but if they made a mistake, move on.. there are plenty more real criminals out there to catch.
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Re: double standards by Shinumi on December 20th, 2008, 10:47am

Yeah, the problem is that the real criminals are difficult to catch, they are 'respectable' members of the comunity, they have families and they got good jobs... people you usually wouldn't suspect of being criminals. It's much easier to suspect a person who's simple and that has 'dubious' hobbies like reading manga.
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No kidding! by melon-ramune-freak on December 27th, 2008, 8:49pm

No way! Going to jail for reading yaoi manga? ~(°w°'~
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Thats just idiotic by KyuubiNoNeko on January 27th, 2009, 11:11am

I find that to be pointltess. Not only is shotacon/lolicon not considered 'porn' but It's just plain idiotic that they're gonna brand it as illegal, but that I mean, what are they planning to do throw everyone who's ever purchased, downloaded, viewed, scanlated, distributed, subbed and so on any such content!?
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Obscene No! by Victo513orcd on April 14th, 2009, 11:21am

There's Japanese Penal Code and there's Protect Act of 2003. And Yaoi is Gay Comics. So Christopher Handley shouldn't go to jail because of some faggots like to fuck up for unconstitutional characters that are teenagers. And the uncensored Genitals is not obscene. Try using Honey Room Manga case and no charges in japan. Gay Sex is fetish. Baka-mitau. So about that we do not buy Manga in america and Japan Sonna-no uso-dayo. Yeah. Yaoi fans love this Kuso. MangaUpdates admin Mocca-Mocca Su Su. And Don't even think that all Yaoi fans will forgive you.
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