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News Article
Group Links Update 2
All,

I have been in communication with PayPal directly, and they have re-enabled our account. We were required to remove the PayPal donate button from the site in order to do so, but we should be fine for now.

Additionally, we have worked the issue with our host, and we are no longer in any imminent danger of being shut down, due to our compliance with the DMCA request.

I wanted to clarify some of the rumors being passed around:

1. The DMCA was from an official source and not a troll. We have made a conscious choice not to reveal this source. We are not going to vilify the organization that did this. We want to encourage the adoption of manga outside of Japan, and we're not going to help that by putting a face to everyone's anger. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at us for removing the links.

2. The DMCA request was for "Contributory Infringement", and this link was provided directly by the organization that filed the request: http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca512/question.cgi?QuestionID= 268

3. The DMCA was narrowly targeted at this organization's copyright works. We had to act quickly to ensure that we complied with the request, so we disabled all links. We are looking into code changes to somehow enable links for scanlators who do not scanlate anything related to this organization's licenses. This may take some time.

4. This is the first time we've had any sort of DMCA filed related to linking to scanlator websites.

5. The DMCA was not submitted to us directly, but was passed instead to PayPal and our host. We found out from our host and acted immediately. We have worked with companies in the past to ensure their rights are protected, and we would have appreciated being contacted first. We are willing to communicate with the organization that made the demand. I can be contacted (manick @ mangaupdates.com)

6. The DMCA was submitted through an intermediary who specializes in handling removal of copyrighted material from the Internet.

The MangaUpdates team realizes the importance of group links. To some, this site is no longer what it was without them. While we cannot guarantee anything, we are still trying to come up with some way to provide this information.

We encourage everyone to BUY MANGA. While everyone's purpose for being in this community is their own, our goal is to increase awareness to anyone who wishes to be informed. That is our mission, and has always been our mission. We will continue to strive to do that as long as we can.

Thank you,

MU
Posted by Manick on December 7th 5:54am Comments ( 45 )  [ View ]  [ Add ]
Comments

» thevampirate on December 6th, 2013, 11:40pm

Have the scanlators doing series under the DMCA takedown been told which of their series are keeping them from having links? I don't know if there is a way to keep it quiet and protect the scanlators. I know if I was in a group blocked I would at least like an offer saying one or more of your series are keeping you from your links would you like those posts removed to give you back your links. I know this is a serious and sensitive process and I hope you know the community is behind you guys.

thread

» mysstris on December 7th, 2013, 3:35am

I don't have an answer to your question but I think (or I'd like to think) if any group is working on something under the DMCA, then they will simply stop working on it. I don't know any groups that are or have been affected by DMCA yet (to my knowledge) but if something is dropped, it's probable that the scanlating group will explain the reason for dropping a project.

thread

» kitty1826x on December 6th, 2013, 11:47pm

2- I was right it was Contributory Infringement.
4- I feel like that was directed to me ... I read some posts, and skimmed almost every post in this thread, and I don't remember anyone else saying this ... (Maybe I'm just paranoid)
5- Harsh.


Contributory infringement occurs where "[o]ne who, with knowledge of the infringing activity, induces, causes, or materially contributes to the infringing conduct of another."4 In general, the two elements of contributory infringement are (1) knowledge of the infringing activity; and (2) material contribution to the activity.

Like I've said before contributory infringement and MU is a gray matter. I know MU does not encourage downloads, or members to read from readers sites. ( As it was stated a few times in FAQ). So Inducement clearing not there. Knowledge, again that's gray. For all MU knows links to scanlator's websites are so members can see what other works they have dropped, planning to pick up, future projects, and maybe contact to join the group. MU has never said hey if you want to read something go to the scanlator's website and download it from there. ( that also goes to causes, and materially contributes effects). But hey I'm not a lawyer.
Speaking of lawyers any news about MU going to contact one so we can get our links back? ( I'm sure if decided to get one, that members would donate to fund such an event.)
Again not a lawyer, but I believe if you keep the web address as plain text and not a link it should be fine. ( I think they can't do anything about plain text because it would violate the First Amendment. Think is the keyword, but maybe something you can look into)


Oh last, and I almost forgot thanks MU staff for your quick actions saving this site from being shut down. Although I'm not as upset as others to the links being taken down, if all the hard work I put into my lists was gone ... I don't even want to think about it. no
Thanks again.

(A little shocked this update thread wasn't locked like the 1st one)

thread

» melquiades on December 7th, 2013, 12:05am

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/contributory_infringement

I personally think, by reading that article, that they can't have a case against MU

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» Antaliss on December 7th, 2013, 2:10am

They don't need to. They know full well hosting companies won't ever risk their own skin for a customer and will shut you down preventively. While you're busy fixing the administrative mess left by preventive measures, your site is effectively out of commission. Law isn't about being right, it's about making it look like you may be right. The cost of so-called justice does the rest.

thread

» duskyderp on December 7th, 2013, 2:17am

Quote from Antaliss
They don't need to. They know full well hosting companies won't ever risk their own skin for a customer and will shut you down preventively. While you're busy fixing the administrative mess left by preventive measures, your site is effectively out of commission. Law isn't about being right, it's about making it look like your right.


A chilling effect counter DCMA claim can force any paypal company to not only reopen its doors, but issue you an appology, and be on watch for preventively shutting you down based on other excuses.
Seriously, how do you think chuggaconroy still get money for he youtube videos of nintendo games? Someone from Chilling Effects watchs his channel. (If I am not mistaken he get the money he's payed in advertisements by google directly to sent to his paypal account.) Paypal will not even touch a DCMA claim related to him any more for fear of possibly being wrong. (Also he donates alot of the money, if I remember correctly, because he doesn't want to be payed to play video games.)

So, yes they need to because they have legal and social precident to do so. Now Paypal may send them a BS letter, but this exactly why I talked about contacting Chilling Effects is for.

Quote from socru
I commend you on the very professional way of handling this. It goes without saying I will keep MU on my bookmark list. :-)
However, this organization, has acted simply INTOLERABLE. They could have approached you directly, yet they needed to form a bully gang ... I'm sure you would have cooperated with them, yet they chose to be mean.
They need to realize they took the wrong approach. What I suggest is this - remove manga pages of all the manga they own. Let them realize their manga is worthless unless it's promoted by a popular site like MU. And that it's better to be friends than enemies with MU. Regards, Socru.


I could not have said it better myself. *Applause for Socru*

thread

» AstroNerdBoy on December 7th, 2013, 6:34am

Yep. Welcome to the world of "guilty until proven innocent." As one who's been hit TWICE with false DMCA claims, this whole law angers me to no end.

thread

» Hantu on December 7th, 2013, 12:06am

I hope you will find peaceful solution that you looking for and it a win-win solution. That was underhand move by DMCA, targeted your PayPal and host instead of directly deal with you. MU is still important even without direct link to scanlation group. There wont be much different for most of us thanks to a workaround by kind anon.
Just a suggestion, maybe MU can create alternative site or method to mirror releases. I didn't really use Facebook or Twitter. But having those will make you harder to be taken down by underhand tactic. Stay strong and calm in a time like this. Peace.

thread

» Chinmay on December 7th, 2013, 12:27am

For now as long as we have the up to date releases, and an active manga database, I am grateful.
I can manage the other problem. My bookmark bar has always been my favorite thing for many things!

thread

» Reyalsdog on December 7th, 2013, 1:33am

Other than Crunchyroll, it could be Kadokawa. They not so long ago merged with 3 pretty big publishers, and now probably hold like 1/3 of entire market.

Quote
we are still trying to come up with some way to provide this information.

Take this script, and make an add-on for browsers. If no one from MU know how - find someone who can. That would be all, end of the drama.

thread

» Hinokai on December 7th, 2013, 1:36am

You don't really need to put a face on anything, it's obviously Crunchyroll considering the timing. Gotta protect those licenses to put on a good impression for the new investors.

thread

» Bedouin on December 7th, 2013, 1:40am

I agree that the tactics used were underhanded, and I'm disappointed about that. Targeting your host and PayPal was essentially lighting a flame under your backside to act immediately. This organisation showed a profound lack of respect towards MU by not contacting you from the start and basically holding the site to ransom. Most ironic considering the principles that the DMCA is supposed to uphold.

thread

» kihi on December 7th, 2013, 1:59am

no.5 wow they used underhanded trick. Funny for some organization with "power" to use DMCA they're sure are sly coward with no dignity laugh .

I still think it is better for you to disclose the DMCA so that scanlator can be more cautious on titles they work on. Otherwise the scanlators are left in pitch darkness and the next thing they know their site link no longer in MU. Thats not really fair for the scanlator.

Whether you guys put a face or not putting a face they are not many publisher out there. We can get angry at one or at all of them but still if you want to get your fill of manga (btw i personally love printed copy) you have to get it from them. *shrug

thread

» booknik on December 7th, 2013, 2:02am

They've already been playing a losing battle with the for profit host sites that nod their heads on one end and keep doing things behind the back. The host sites have been the target for years with little to no luck (with exception of mangaone but that only caused mangafox to become more popular and over bloated). The scanlators are sometimes hard to pin. It was only a matter of time before this occurred. With mu the scanlators have a backbone to move around but still be found.The scanlators depend on people finding them as well as donating. You break both the ease of access of a portal along with the ability to move and readily be found. It's an indirect way to hit the scanlators and an attempt to hit the supplier the host sites that are wildly popular; it also can cause a disconnect between the scanlators and their main direct base of readers/donations. It's a brillant move by the company's lawyer, but that was just mean they didn't think to directly negociate with MU first (maybe they are too use to the shenanigans of the host sites?). Pissed off as I am to lose the links to things that haven't hit the US market, I think I've been expecting this move against MU since around the time mangaone got hit. cry

thread

» duskyderp on December 7th, 2013, 2:03am

As I mention, this actually smells like a Fraudulant DCMA claim.

I talk about this in slightly ranting/raging length here:
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=44023&pa ge=16#post623626

The reason is simple. They are using Chilling Effects, but from what you have told us, not provide a chilling effects open record DCMA claim report. It literally and open document where anyone can review or look at the filed DCMA claim with Chilling Effects. Thus, it provides due process because the public and accused have an open record of the case being filed. There is not secret court of DCMA claims but a Clearing House were people can view them. (Hence the Chilling Effects Clearing House)

For example if this was google, there is a policy with chilling effects to actually post there major DMCA reports. In fact, I believe if you look around the chilli's effect site there should be page up about proper filing of DCMA claims and how when using chilli effect, you are supposed to provide the accused website with a link to their claim. This is what google has done impart to so many false youtube copyright claims. (it gets over 1,000 a day)

Even if Chilling Effects is the immediate, they still have this policy of giving the website accused due process by having an open record of the claim. Its a corner stone of their policies as shown below:

Quote
Chilling Effects welcomes submission of letters from individuals and from Internet service providers and hosts. Chilling Effects welcomes submission of letters from individuals and from Internet service providers and hosts. These submissions enable us to study the prevalence of legal threats and allow Internet users to see the source of content removals
Chilling Effects aims to support lawful online activity against the chill of unwarranted legal threats. We are excited about the new opportunities the Internet offers individuals to express their views, parody politicians, celebrate favorite stars, or criticize businesses, but concerned that not everyone feels the same way. Study to date suggests that cease and desist letters often silence Internet users, whether or not their claims have legal merit. The Chilling Effects project seeks to document that "chill" and inform C&D recipients of their legal rights in response.



However, in this cause the organization has linked to a chilling effects FAQ page instead of the report. This tactic is very very commonly done by trolls who file fraudulent DCMA claims. Even if their DCMA has even some value of merit, its still a fraudulent claim because how they have served you the notice of the DCMA claim. Legally speaking how can someone fairly respond to DCMA claim they have only heard rumors about with no legal document action. You have no idea of the scope of the claim, the validity of the party claiming it (which Chilling Effects actually fact checks), their is no legal ground to stand on.) Literally its like issuing a subpoena for a witness and failing to deliver the letter of the subpoena to the witness. In the link, I gave I talked about very historical examples of DCMA battles being delayed or even won, due to improper procedure. (The fox one is my favorate because its a perfect example of the same type of DCMA threatening an harrassment you guys are experiencing.)

In short, I am pretty sure you guys and paypal are being trolled



A few suggested things would might do/consider:

1) You should write back through paypal, to the organization that if they do not produce or link to the necessary DCMA legal documents or Chilling Effects documents, then you will have no recourse but to file a counter DCMA fraud claim with Chilling Effects and the Better Business Bureau. While you have done what they suggested, the continued lack of proper legal procedure does not guarantee that mangaupdates couldn't possibly bring back links to the organizations.

2) (If they write you back a super threating e-mail do this)---> If they still don't produce the necessary documents or link to them, you might also consider contacting the major manga companies or google (depending on who this organizations says they work for) for concerns of possible identity theft of one of their employees. In this e-mail you might add, you are willing to work with google and manga companies to sort out any copyright problems as long as both parties have a fair and respectful tone. However, mangaupdates will not be harassed by organizations who fraudulently misrepresent major corporations with improper due process. You don't believe that such persons who e-mailed you were truellying working in google or manga companies best interest based on the reaction you have seen. In fact, all this DCMA claim has done is to make the problems worse not better.

3) Finally, open record is important, we don't file DCMA claims or emails in secrety NSA courts. Wendy Seltzer didn't create Chilling Effects, so that people could be threated as her own work has shown that automated DCMA silence Internet users, whether or not their claims have legal merit. The lack of an open record is also highly disrespectful Nelson Mandela, who faught to prevent discrimination specifically online discrimination just before he died.

4) You might also still want to contact Paypal for believing based on the information given that this is a fraudulent copyright claim especially because they have not produced the necessary legal documents or chilling effects to show DCMA claim. If Chilling Effects was the organization, I would not only send the message to paypal, but also Wendy Seltzer. This is becuase the email is seriously disrespectful of her work in making DCMA cases open to the public. http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/people/wseltzer


I write this becuase I deeply respect the founder of Chilling Effects too much and a deeply respect manga companies too much... too much to let 1 person and 1 e-mail ruin there life works in the eyes of the manga community. It is already hard enough to get manga in certain parts of the United States. (Its very complicated and would take me an entire thread to explain). We should do anything to hamper it. (we cannot even get it shipped to us online, without manga updates, I probably wouldn't know who to contact or message from manga companies to ask for e-book versions due to inability to obtain a physical copy.)


Quote from booknik
They've already been playing a losing battle with the for profit host sites that nod their heads on one end and keep doing things behind the back. They've been the target for years with little to no luck (with exception of mangaone but that only caused mangafox to become more popular and over bloat ...

You have a very valid point, if this didn't smell like fraud, I would agree with you. However, there is something rotten in Denmark.



thread

» socru on December 7th, 2013, 2:14am

I commend you on the very professional way of handling this. It goes without saying I will keep MU on my bookmark list. :-)
However, this organization, has acted simply INTOLERABLE. They could have approached you directly, yet they needed to form a bully gang ... I'm sure you would have cooperated with them, yet they chose to be mean.
They need to realize they took the wrong approach. What I suggest is this - remove manga pages of all the manga they own. Let them realize their manga is worthless unless it's promoted by a popular site like MU. And that it's better to be friends than enemies with MU. Regards, Socru.

thread

» booknik on December 7th, 2013, 3:20am

Quote from socru
However, this organization, has acted simply INTOLERABLE. They could have approached you directly, yet they needed to form a bully gang ... I'm sure you would have cooperated with them, yet they chose to be mean.

I agree that it was mean, but I wouldn't go so far as say intolerable. Annoyingly the approach was logical. I have a pet hobby of researching, and went through a stage that copyright was my target of interest (ironic I know). What I can follow of this mess, I can see the reasons to use the method they did. Paypal and the host site are both easier targets for the lawyers. The lawyers also likely realized that the terms of use means all they would have to do is scare both these targets. Present even the potential that the law has been broken, and either/both companies can easily use the terms of use to terminate business with the potential offender (no innocence until proven guilty needed). Despite all of their dedication, MUs staff are not considered an organization. They are individuals and thus a harder direct target for the lawyers, also an unknown target, To them MUs staff could just as easily give them the bird. Rather they went with the tactic that had more secure odds for working. Heavy handed? Yes. Mean? Yes. The wrong move? Given the difficult nature of copyright enforcement, I have to say no.

thread

» Hantu on December 7th, 2013, 4:13am

Quote
3. The DMCA was narrowly targeted at this organization's copyright works. We had to act quickly to ensure that we complied with the request, so we disabled all links. We are looking into code changes to somehow enable links for scanlators who do not scanlate anything related to this organization's licenses. This may take some time.

I hope this will NOT completely remove the group from your database, especially if not all of the scanlation are related to the DMCA claim.
Also, this probably mean that we will soon know who is this organization. I also second this motion
Quote
What I suggest is this - remove manga pages of all the manga they own.

Or at least make a new tag (DMCA?) so I can filter them out. MU is basically doing them favor by giving free information to their current and future customer. They don't want it, you can remove it.
P/s: I'm still pissed off by their underhanded tactic mad

thread

» ryful on December 7th, 2013, 11:54am

Well id sure like to know who filed it, cause they just pissed off a customer, and frankly i want to make sure i dont buy from them

thread

» Zuan on December 7th, 2013, 3:24am

A simple thing to do regarding group links is create a script that can be used via greasemonkey/tampermonkey and update it for new groups.

thread

» Anabiotic_Pineapple on December 7th, 2013, 7:48am

Did people not catch the bit where Manick mentioned the request was sent to PayPal and their host? If PayPal and the host don't want to play ball, then MU can't really do anything to fight this. I use manga updates as an AniDB of manga. The loss of group links sucks, but to me, the tracking of series, their reviews, and user ratings is far more important to me.

If they have to comply with a request, fraudulent or otherwise, in order to keep this info available, then more power to them. Even if they do "fight" and win, if the host decides the whole thing is more trouble than it's worth, MU will be dropped like a rock (a hot one at that). Not to mention the fact that PayPal sucks and will drop their account every time a new request is sent.

thread

» alchemist11 on December 7th, 2013, 12:37pm

I am a bit dumbfounded as to why IRC addresses were not click-able? Hopefully that is back as soon as possible too.

thread

» Reyalsdog on December 7th, 2013, 1:12pm

thread

» Ikari on December 7th, 2013, 12:54pm

If you do want people to buy manga, you should make the licensing information more prominent put it above scanslations links. I know most people come here for the scanslations but a large percentage is also ignorant that a legal alternative even exist.

If you're honest about wanting people to buy manga, you should make that information more readily available to newcomers on the site. Maybe even look into Bookdepository and Amazon affiliate links if possible, a lot of publishers now offer their manga digitally as well.

There's a lot to be done, right now manga-updates as it stands is pretty much scanslation oriented.

thread

» kuroneko003 on December 7th, 2013, 1:03pm

Yes! This is an excellent idea! It should be clear which series are licensed and in print. And when practical, there should at least links to purchase from Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and the license holders website for the series. This should be a manga information website and not just a scanlation directory.

thread

» Harimau on December 7th, 2013, 6:46pm

I think it's a good idea.

Hopefully with the lure of free(?) advertising for their products, content owners back off MU for a bit. But I'm concerned it could also make content owners more "aware" of MU. Can anyone please weigh in?

Should MU also list legal releases (online publication or paperback volumes) in the Releases page, maybe highlighted even?

thread

» soyokaze on December 7th, 2013, 9:52pm

Quote
If you're honest about wanting people to buy manga, you should make that information more readily available to newcomers on the site. Maybe even look into Bookdepository and Amazon affiliate links if possible, a lot of publishers now offer their manga digitally as well. [Ikari]


That is absolutely, horrendously ridiculous idea.

First of all, you cannot assume that everyone here is from USA. We're not. There are different publishers for different countries and regions, some ship internationally and some do not ship to specific countries. Most of manga here aren't even scanlated, not to mention they don't have ANY translations. They are only being released in Japan, so are you gonna link Japanese Amazon? Japanese publishers? There are better sites for that purpose and they do just that.

Secondly, this site is a manga database with updates on fan translations, not a price aggregator, publishers association or whatever. If you decide to go commercial, you are no longer independent and lose donations. You cannot decide anything. You might as well pack yourself, sell it and forget about it. Also, NO fans or groups are gonna provide information on this site which is about, what, 80%? 90%? 100%? That means you won't even know your favourite mangaka has started new manga in Japan as you obviously cannot read the Moonlanguage. Not to mention that if some company bought it, it would do it only for massive database and to take down the updates on translations. That means death to MU. Do you want to kill it? You cannot put in publishers links just like that, it doesn't work that way. What would be the purpose? To please publishers? To have revenue from ads? I have no goddamn idea.

I believe I don't have to continue, but I can still go on. Let me just tell you that it's you who is ignorant of the fact, that - if not for scanlators, manga sites and MU - there wouldn't be so many official international releases. It's companies role to make good product and sell it easily at good price and in no way it does become better by killing half of the whole fandom just for the heck of it.

thread

» yarn on December 7th, 2013, 10:53pm

Quote from soyokaze


First of all, you cannot assume that everyone here is from USA. We're not.


Chuang Yi would like to have a word with you.

But seriously, even if you don't live in the US, wouldn't you want people who DO, and who have access to it, to buy it? I've known lots of people here who are barely aware that there are legal means to buy/watch anime and manga. They got into it because their friend introduced them to it via scanlations/fansubs, and don't even bother trying to use legal routes, because they're kids and they're naive. How much more does the love need to be freely spread, when it is available to buy for cash?

People on this site have hated me for saying this, I know, but it really is good to buy manga. It doesn't have to be a ton. Just what you can afford. People hate the "big they," but amongst the greedy people in the "big they," are a lot of good people who just want to earn a living.

I've supported putting licensing info at the top of the page for a while, but the site still hasn't implemented it. Maybe they'll reconsider now. Either way, I agree, don't add direct-buy links. MAL has links on all their anime/manga pages direct to Rightstuf, even though most of the stuff isn't even licensed or available there . roll eyes

thread

» Sorcha on December 7th, 2013, 11:45pm

Whoa, dude.

Did you imply that most people here are ignorant people who won't buy legal manga? Well, it's not completely off the mark, but it isn't fair for those who actually buy the manga/anime, right?

Of course, we want people to buy the manga when they got the access to it, and me myself always buy the manga that I considered good when I could afford it. But I know those quality mangaka from scanlation at internet, and it was way better than randomly buy some manga with nice cover from the bookstore. Why? because most legal manga in my country is well, bad, and made people think manga is a low class reading material.

About the link to amazon or other, I'm with Soyokaze in this case. Why? Because it only focused on US/europe citizen. As someone living in a developing country, to buy manga from US (if they isn't licensed in my country) is expensive. Hell, I could use the money to buy lunch for one weeks. And waving the said link in my face when I can't and won't use it would only made me quit any website/forum asap.

thread

» soyokaze on December 7th, 2013, 10:01pm

1. MangaUpdates, Manick - first of all, thanks for clarifying the situation. I won't curse anymore how sick this whole situation is, as everyone here already knows and feels similarly.


2. I think this is very real case of wrong and abusive censorship in work. The next in line for DMCA note might be google, asked to remove most of active scanlators sites from the search engine. Without links neither here nor in google, they are as good as non existing. That is a real threat and abuse of power - even if ultimately declared as legal, the sites are in a deadly grip both financial and social until the end of the court.


3. I'm sure most of people here have seen the script that re-enables links here. That is something completely outside the DMCA note and this whole problem as it is or in future might be made by someone completely anonymous or not connected to the site. Just a random fan. There is one issue with it though, as it works by inserting the list of links that is in the script itself and that means very soon it will be out of date. I know you can add the links by yourself, but it's not a long term solution. It would be needed to get updated with changes and new groups once a month or so, as it doesn't have access do MU database.

You know, putting that aside, today I had a dream in which some anonymous guy magically posts this script updated from time to time. As for me and all really interested, it would solve the whole problem while not being in conflict with the compliance. That's just a dream though, maybe it happens, maybe not. Time will tell.


4. I know you decided not to reveal the organisation behind the note. You might be obliged, you might not know completely, you might still be nervous - I understand. However, there is an elephant in the room that the time it happened might not be a coincidence. I don't have to write what that coincidence is, do I? I have serious reasons to suspect it and I absolutely not tolerate this elephant stepping on whoever it wanted over the past few years.

Thus, if anywhere in the next post that is or isn't an answer to my message (no matter whether you actually answer me or not) you guys write word "yes", I will or will not interpret it that this elephant might or might not be responsible for the compliant. Now, if you excuse me, please forgive me my delusional blabbering and keep doing your best. You are one of the very few sites that managed to stay great over the years.

thread

» Great on December 8th, 2013, 3:14am

OOT a little :
I just want to mention, there are alot of activity and responding member because of this incident. Quite interesting to see there are even some member whose first few post is reaction to Group Links Case instead of introduction.
That means all this time, they are just sitting in the dark, clicking the link, and when its gone, they come rushing out to defend it. Or at least try to fight for it....
with insult....
or sarcasm....
and alot of intellectual knowledge about DMCA Fraud (No, duskyderp, I dont know about DMCA Fraud. My brother never said anything about it)
Even after Manick inform about it, that Mangaupdates (MU) decision to not reveal the culprit for the DMCA and just blame the MU.
No way! Im not gonna blame MU.
And I didnt intent to bother about the DMCA. Im just trying to encourage, not to abandon MU just because its harder for us to find the link we are looking for.
Quote
3. The DMCA was narrowly targeted at this organization's copyright works. We had to act quickly to ensure that we complied with the request, so we disabled all links. We are looking into code changes to somehow enable links for scanlators who do not scanlate anything related to this organization's licenses. This may take some time.

And I think they could find out how to and the link for the nonrelated to the DMCA could be back up again.

thread

» wolfery on December 8th, 2013, 8:33am

Quote from Great
Im just trying to encourage, not to abandon MU just because its harder for us to find the link we are looking for.

Encourage MU? What for? They complied with all demands of this 'mysterious company' regardless of lawfulness. Or in your America 'law' is just hollow word as in any third world country? In any case seems like MU don't want to defend themselves so your encouragement is wasted.
Lastly, I think that 'mysterious company' wasn't named due to cowardice of MU staff and not any other dignified reason. And if the culprit wasn't named, then we can assume all american publishers as guilty. So if someone find current situation intolerable, don't buy any manga from american publishers ever again. Not that they actually be sad over this, they don't care about rights, community and manga at all. Don't see the reason to shelter that kind of people, but MU does this quite eagerly.

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» Great on December 8th, 2013, 10:47pm

No, Im not talking about anyone specifically.
And No, Im not saying anyone is a jerk. Im just saying that its good that even anyone could join the fray and speak their mind out. Freedom of Speech.

Quote from wolfery
Encourage MU? What for? They complied with all demands of this 'mysterious company' regardless of lawfulness. Or in your America 'law' is just hollow word as in any third world country? In any case seems like MU don't want to defend themselves so your encouragement is wasted.
Lastly, I think that ' ...


Not encourage just MU, but encourage us all. Instead we argue to each other. While the real culprit is probably smiling/laughing because they could stay hidden in the dark.
Oh, and Im not in US.

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» wolfery on December 12th, 2013, 12:31pm

No, I didn't try to argue with you. I'm simply disappointed in the way MU handled this situation. They look like some weak mc you may find in many mangas shoved around by everybody. Very frustrating.
Quote
Oh, and Im not in US.
Good for you =)

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» Great on December 14th, 2013, 1:30am

Quote from wolfery
No, I didn't try to argue with you. I'm simply disappointed in the way MU handled this situation. They look like some weak mc you may find in many mangas shoved around by everybody. Very frustrating.


Ermm... I think some of the manga that I like to read has that kind of mc,
and I kinda like the variation of different type of mc available,
doesn't have to be strong or unbeatable,
so,
well,
at least they are still the MAIN Character. biggrin
Oh, and those kind of mc is usually in a Harem manga where they are also surrounded by many other people (weak and strong alike) and they all tend to focus their attention to the mc.

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» destroyer_ck on December 8th, 2013, 9:29am

You're obviously talking about me.
i don't mind.
yes i'm a jerk to the bone.

i'm not proud for being such jerk, but nothing more i can do anyway.
and even if it's gone forever, though, at least i know how to google.

but, for sure i don't have any intention to insult or sarcasm.
i'll do the same thing if i'm in their position.
I just point out some possibilities so 'I' can get what 'I' want, without hurting MU much.

i obviously point out about the 'link' that those DMCA associate (host, paypal and i-don't-know-what organization) 'failed' to notice.
just like ordinary jerk, i'm looking for hole in the rules.

flaming me won't give anyone any benefit.
and by that, i have no intention to say anything bad about MU.
i prefer have MU without links to get it shut down by the host.
i've been using it for almost 10 years and it's like a mangawiki for me.
with lots of external resource links.

just treat it as, that the wiki can't have external feature anymore.

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» MinM66 on December 10th, 2013, 2:04pm

Quote
"We are not going to vilify the organization that did this. We want to encourage the adoption of manga outside of Japan, and we're not going to help that by putting a face to everyone's anger."


I see..

Quote
"We are looking into code changes to somehow enable links for scanlators who do not scanlate anything related to this organization's licenses."


wait, doesn't that mean anyone with a brain would be able to figure which company submitted it? We'll figure it out anyway, though I am sure most people already suspect the culprit.

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» cmertb on December 10th, 2013, 2:55pm

5 bucks on Kodansha.

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» Great on December 11th, 2013, 10:43pm

Quote from MinM66
Quote
"We are looking into code changes to somehow enable links for scanlators who do not scanlate anything related to this organization's licenses."


wait, doesn't that mean anyone with a brain would be able to figure which company submitted it? We'll figure it out anyway, though I am sure most people already suspect the culprit.


Well, thats the hard part. making code changes that wont be showing which of them is the culprit, while the non-culprit still could be seen. laugh

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» booknik on December 14th, 2013, 4:39am

I don't think MUs reaction was weak. Their move while drastic was the safest one they could made under the circumstances. We shall see where this leads.

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» Great on December 15th, 2013, 6:53pm

Maybe for "strong" people, the "safe" move is "weak".

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» aagcnet on December 15th, 2013, 6:57pm

let it be... no links is safer... dont worry about links... thats why google exist... heck if you follow a manga.. be kind enough to bookmark the group if google makes u feel lazy.

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