Manga is the Japanese equivalent of comics
with a unique style and following. Join the revolution! Read some manga today!
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You can submit poll ideas here (and try to keep them manga/anime-related)
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903
Previous Poll Results:
Question: Do you have any manga-related apps on your phone or handheld device?
Choices:
Yes, and I regularly use them - votes: 2723 (27.9%)
Yes, but I don't really use them - votes: 1590 (16.3%)
No - votes: 4129 (42.3%)
I don't have a phone or handheld device that can install apps - votes: 1328 (13.6%)
There were 9770 total votes.
The poll ended: November 15th 2014
Hmm, I'm actually quite surprised by the number of people that do have apps like that...
Comments (limited to first 100 replies)
» ichigo_daisuki on November 15th, 2014, 12:05am
» herrdachs on November 15th, 2014, 12:29am
» imercenary on November 15th, 2014, 8:14am
This this this.
I don't think people realize how LETHAL any kind of censorship would be to ALL kinds of writing/drawings/manga/books.
» Bafflement on November 15th, 2014, 12:33am
» whitespade on November 15th, 2014, 1:02am
HOWEVER - thats just it, we are always being influenced by one thing or another, when you start banning loli shota, you will start banning others like gore porn of the saw franchise, drug and alcohol glorifying movies like the hangover, mafia movies because it incite people to become criminals...etc, etc. you just cant stop people from being influenced by everything, if we ban the 'undesirables' we will just have a sterile culture.
and anyway, children rape are bad in places like zimbabwe because they thought it will cleanse them of AIDS or nigeria because child bride is A-OK there. they dont have loli shota manga, they just have a f#cked up culture. thus, the most important thing in preventing child molestation is not banning anything, its education and actually have a civilized culture.
» TundraDweller on November 15th, 2014, 1:33am
» calstine on November 15th, 2014, 2:07am
Instead of wasting resources weeding out fiction, that time and energy should be devoted to finding real child molesters and people who make porn featuring child actors, and taking them down.
» deadphoenix on November 15th, 2014, 2:26am
» imercenary on November 15th, 2014, 8:16am
» deadphoenix on November 15th, 2014, 8:40am
Anyway, I've read already a lot (over 1500, off course I didn't finish the things I don't like) and I've read a lot that isn't mainstream. As a matter of act I've read at least some of each genre. And I know for sure, do not touch innocent children. Indeed it's not the only horrible thing in the world, but stay with question that is asked.
» imercenary on November 15th, 2014, 9:05pm
Sounds like you don't read at all.
» kainord on November 15th, 2014, 2:46am
Even loli-shota too. I don't like loli because it's against my taste, but i'm a huge straight shota fan, and not only hentai. There are good Older woman Younger man series with shota, so should we ban them too?
And if some pedo can satisfy himself with loli-shota fiction content and never think about touching a child, isn't that good?
Funny, that everyone is talking about Hentai but as i said, there are loli shota series that aren't.
» takeva on November 15th, 2014, 3:06am
FYI people who defend this by saying, "Well, they could always touch a real child instead of reading this!" Most criminals get their ideas from books/tv. It makes them want to do it in real life.
Either wa,y they will still do it regardless if this is around or not. Ban this garbage.
» -shiratori- on November 15th, 2014, 5:48am
"I don't like it, so ban this shit!"
Hypocrites.
» takeva on November 15th, 2014, 12:43pm
» zarlan on November 15th, 2014, 1:12pm
Yet you are fine with rape and murder? (please note: Murder is far worse than sexualization of children, or child rape. If you disagree, then why is it that we don't kill all victims of those crimes, to put them out of their misery?)
Also, you read plenty of works that contain elements that can be said to be disgusting (I'm limiting myself to those I've read myself, or am at least fairly familiar with ...which removes most of the works in your reading list):
3x3 Eyes (plenty of murder, lies, sexual assault, maybe rape [I don't entirely remember]...)
Air Gear (LOTS of sexualization of children and adolescents!)
Berserk (sexualization of children and adolescents, child rape, rape, sexual assault, murder, bloody gory violence... What possible disgusting thing doesn't it contain!?)
Hunter X Hunter (murder and gore)
Onani Master Kurosawa (I am not familiar with this work, actually, but... Just the title alone is enough)
Tenjou Tenge (rape, sexualization of adolescents ...and probably a lot more, but I haven't really read it, so I don't know)
In other words, you are not only a hypocrite, but you want to ban works that contain elements (i.e. sexualization of children) that are present in works that you yourself read and enjoy.
» takeva on November 15th, 2014, 1:21pm
Doesn't change my opinion of loli/shota.
» zarlan on November 15th, 2014, 1:35pm
Of course I don't believe you.
The list I checked was your reading list.
Not "unfinished" (where you put series you quit reading) or "on hold".
Reading.
I do not appreciate lies. Dishonesty is a thing I find to be extremely disgusting.
» -shiratori- on November 15th, 2014, 1:16pm
I think your opinion is disgusting, but you are entitled to having it since I do not believe in thought crimes. That's the difference between us two.
» zarlan on November 15th, 2014, 1:32pm
I don't get what people find attractive about ballet, opera, sport "fencing", aikido, cheer leading...
Edit: I somewhat misunderstood a certain statement. Re-reading it, it was not really that wrong, so I removed that bit.
» MinatoAce on November 15th, 2014, 3:17am
as I don't read anything related to loli/shota...it's not my taste...
But, called for making it illegal or banned would be too high a horse to ride...too bothersome...and certainly wastage of time...
and You see the number of Lolicon are quite high here, 42.8% atm...while the people standing against it are some what half of it, 20.7% atm...don't counting the don't care ones...
Oh! It's not surprising that most of the ones voted for Yes/Yes like me(I'm a guy) are Girls...ya, love those people...Women Are Certainly Intelligent Beings !!
So, that's how it goes ~!
» GuttedGnome on November 15th, 2014, 3:56am
Seriously though, I voted no/no because it's fiction. Of course, if it's a hentai [insert the media here] based on real events I'd see no issue with banning that specific piece, but all of it? No, just no.
Also as mentioned, some people get inspired by fictional works and some even by real events. But banning something just because an idiot that's psychologically ill (most likely antisocial) copies what was done in a fictional piece is just wrong. These people will just get inspired by something else then. Maybe they'll end up doing human trafficking just by watching someone selling vegetables at a marketplace. Or maybe they get impulsive and kidnap, rape and kill children in the thousands.
Whatever you think, banning isn't the right way to stop these people. It just creates more of them. And by the time you've banned everything that can inspire criminal acts there's a full scale rebellion and anarchy outside. Good luck stopping actual rape of anything (women, children, men, animals, objects) at that point.
What should be done however is trying to find these people before they commit a crime and give them the help they need to function in society. Some, however, will never function in society. Ever...
» zeroINUGAMI on November 15th, 2014, 4:13am
I voted no/no its all or nothing
if loli / shota fiction is banned or made illegal, then the bible must follow that is the most harmful fiction in the world
» GuttedGnome on November 15th, 2014, 4:53am
Me? I do know what antisocial means. It's just that antisocial behavior usually leads to worse things than petty crimes of inconsideration if nothing is done about it. By the way, sociopathy is called Antisocial Personality Disorder for a reason.
» zeroINUGAMI on November 15th, 2014, 5:02am
Antisocial Personality Disorder is one part of many, that makes someone a sociopath
» GuttedGnome on November 15th, 2014, 5:42am
Antisocial Personality Disorder is one part of many, that makes someone a sociopath
Remember, ASPD is a pretty broad definition just like the autistic spectrum (no, I'm not comparing them if someone think that). Sociopathy is a branch of it.
Anyway, we can agree on one thing about sociopaths. Society just ain't their forte.
» zeroINUGAMI on November 15th, 2014, 5:50am
» GuttedGnome on November 15th, 2014, 5:58am
Did I hurt you or something by stating facts I've read in actual official manuals and papers about psychiatry?
Well, whatever. We're already quite off topic so it's better to end it like that.
» zeroINUGAMI on November 15th, 2014, 6:27am
every parent who believes false facts that say their kid with Antisocial Personality Disorder is a sociopath, leads to a kid being controlled and drugged
» Saibak on November 15th, 2014, 4:02am
» StaticHD on November 15th, 2014, 4:14am
Think about it. Let's say unintentionally drew some loli child, in an awkward pose, on a piece of paper. And then 5 seconds later, without any warning, my house is raided by police officers and they find that art drawing of some unintentional loli, in an awkward pose, I drew 5 seconds ago. I go to prison for doing something that could be done by anyone unintentionally.
No Artist (professional or newbie) will be safe.
If this becomes globally illegal, it would just mean freedom of speech has been limited to just "speech".
» herrdachs on November 15th, 2014, 4:41am
One involves drawn pictures and the other a living, breathing human. Any sane person can differentiate the two and look at one and say "Yeah, I get that's not right and I would never do that" and "This is fiction that doesn't hurt anyone" and anyone who can't, or can and still would commit any illegal sexual acts on minors would do it EITHER WAY. This way, these people who are prone to do it, would just find another way to satisfy their needs and without any manga or such, who's to say they wouldn't start looking at actual child porn?
Is the solution really do just swipe it under the rug, say "that's taboo, don't even think about it"; alienate a way for /potential/ predators to suppress/cope with their urges? Mind you, I am not saying EVERYONE that reads/enjoys loli/shota deserves to be labeled a pedophile, far from it. But there is probably a certain percentage that could be, and I wouldn't want them to start looking for other ways to satisfy their sexual urges.
There are of course plenty more reasons not to make it illegal, which has been mentioned.
Sites, shops and such can certainly ban it if they want to, but like the person above me said: To illegalize it wouldn't make the problems go away.
» Chocolate Chip on November 15th, 2014, 5:02am
» gurumao on November 15th, 2014, 5:16am
Moralfags, fucking moralfags everywhere!
Burn them all!
Edit: As a friend of mine once said, "If I can commit a crime with just a pencil and a paper in a closed room, then there's something seriously wrong with the system."
Dear "Yes/Yes People", it's all fiction. You might as well ban all crime-related fiction going by that logic. Ban all rape books, ban all murder and terrorism books.
» bnad on November 15th, 2014, 5:57am
Moralfags, fucking moralfags everywhere!
Burn them all!
Edit: As a friend of mine once said, "If I can commit a crime with just a pencil and a paper in a closed room, then there's something seriously wrong with the system."
Dear "Yes/Yes People", it's all fiction. You might as well ban all crime-related fiction going by that logic. Ban all rape books, ban all murder and terrorism books..
There are a lot of crimes you can do with that btw.
Fraud, threats of violence, solicitation, medical malpractice through misinformation or lack of information, child pornography (loli/shota in a lot of countries), defamation that meets the legal burden, incitement to riot, perjury, false report, etc etc.
And please research what logical fallacy you committed with your last sentence. It would help you with your next argument.
» sleekie on November 15th, 2014, 6:57am
Fraud, threats of violence, solicitation, medical malpractice through misinformation or lack of information, child pornography (loli/shota in a lot of countries), defamation that meets the legal burden, incitement to riot, perjury, false report ...
>closed room
Reading comprehension.
You could just tell him instead of trying to be a smartass about it. Apart from anything else, you just proved you can't read a short post properly, so you're not really in much of a position to not back yourself up.
» imercenary on November 15th, 2014, 8:27am
Reading comprehension.
Insider trading.
Person A walks into a room with a pencil and paper but leaves only with the pencil. Person B then walks into the room with nothing but walks out with a paper. Person B later acts on information that only Person A should have known. The paper is never found but Person B cannot explain/justify why he made those actions in any reasonable and/or logical fashion.
Try taking some basic law classes.
» bnad on November 15th, 2014, 1:23pm
Edit: As a friend of mine once said, "If I can commit a crime with just a pencil and a paper in a closed room, then there's something seriously wrong with the system."
Reading comprehension.
Right back at you. Read again. Use "in the context of..." and comprehend. I wont help you more than that.
Okay. It was an ad hominem for you.
» cecropiamoth on November 15th, 2014, 12:16pm
Burn them all!
Edit: As a friend of mine once said, "If I can commit a crime with just a pencil and a paper in a closed room, then there's something seriously wrong with the system."
I voted No/No for the reason stated so clearly above.
» -shiratori- on November 15th, 2014, 5:44am
Child porn is illegal in order to protect children from sexual abuse. No actual children are being harmed in loli/shota porn, so there is no reason to make it illegal.
» Dumber on November 15th, 2014, 5:54am
» asdfffdsa on November 15th, 2014, 6:32am
I think loli, shota, futanari, yuri, scat and many other things are disgusting, but I'd never consider banning them.
Now on the other hand I believe actual child pornography should be banned because there are several other negative effects, e.g. children must be exploited for its creation.
» darkraiders on November 15th, 2014, 7:03am
Seriously i think that's completely ridiculous.
It's all fictional, what kind of fucked up world are we in if peoples worry more about fictional characters than worry about real problems our world have...
» Here_And_Now on November 15th, 2014, 7:32am
» MinatoAce on November 15th, 2014, 7:35am
Anyway, we can agree on one thing about sociopaths. Society just ain't their forte.
every parent who believes false facts that say their kid with Antisocial Personality Disorder is a sociopath, leads to a kid being controlled and drugged.
Oh Man...Why are you guys, fighting over Unnecessary things ?
Does it actually matters...is it harming your daily life ?
Are you a Sociopath or Antisocial human being ?
Doesn't matter...try to speak to the real topic...
And Please, don't misunderstand Sociopath and Antisocial with Criminal...
Being Antisocial or Sociopath is totally different from being a Criminal...
A criminal always can be a Normal guy or others like antisocial or sociopath or a maniac...ok
Sociopath = someone with a sociopathic personality; a person with an antisocial personality disorder (`psychopath' was once widely used but has now been superseded by `sociopath')
Sociopathic Personality = a personality disorder characterized by amorality and lack of affect; capable of violent acts without guilt feelings (`psychopathic personality' was once widely used but was superseded by `sociopathic personality' to indicate the social aspects of the disorder, but now `antisocial personality disorder' is the preferred term)
Antisocial = hostile to or disruptive of normal standards of social behavior
Antisocial Personality Disorder = a personality disorder characterized by amorality and lack of affect; capable of violent acts without guilt feelings (`psychopathic personality' was once widely used but was superseded by `sociopathic personality' to indicate the social aspects of the disorder, but now `antisocial personality disorder' is the preferred term)
but, if you still insist on doing this...Then GuttedGnome certainly wins over zeroINUGAMI, in terms of Knowledge...Okay...Peace
» Karona on November 15th, 2014, 7:53am
Simply because it's fiction and it's not harming anyone.
I don't see any problem if someone reads it on his own computer and doesn't bother anyone.
Anyway, reading loli/shota wont turn anyone into a pedophile (just saying in case some people still think that way) and if it's banned, then might as well ban all the hentai/gore mangas or mangas that show rape and killing.
» Rukia168 on November 15th, 2014, 8:51am
Should we make everything illegal just because there are people who think it's wrong?
Games, movies, literature.... Anything involving killing, rape, violence, or any kind of action we generally consider "wrong" should be banned with this logic.
You could no longer find your favorite work by George R.R Martin in your local bookstore, there wouldn't be a movie genre called gore and every person playing Call Of Duty would be called murderers.
It just doesn't work that way.
If someone wants to read loli or shota, let them. It doesn't harm you in any way. Reading FICTIONAL CONTENT doesn't make anyone a pedophile.
And all of this is coming from a straight girl who doesn't read loli/shota.
PS: Sorry my bad English
» residentgrigo on November 15th, 2014, 8:52am
» nightazday on November 15th, 2014, 11:10am
I put "don't care" because even if it is perfectly legal, people will still look at you funny kinda like Bestiality and Incest in some state. In fact it's worst than that, it's more like Guro which is perfectly legal to fap to but you can't (and shouldn't) do that in real life.
» zarlan on November 15th, 2014, 12:00pm
There are a lot of means of entertainment that needs actors, but which cause no harm.
TV, movies, theater...
...and there are a lot of means of entertainment that need no actors, but which cause harm.
Having a fight in a Colosseum, where you have people fight to the death, doesn't involve any acting. Not to mention that some people may find it entertaining to kill others ...which does rather seem to be a harmful thing.
The issue is, that there is no way to create child porn, which does not harm the children involved.
And just as with the violent media issue, there is no serious debate.
It has been studied and there are no signs that either cause any harm.
Especially violent media, which has been studied to a ludicrous degree.
Unless the thing can be shown to be harmful, on what possible grounds would you have any reason to forbid it?
Especially in societies that supposedly hold the right to Free Expression, to be a valuable human right?
» zarlan on November 15th, 2014, 11:51am
Who are the hypocritical assholes who actually vote Yes/No or No/Yes!?
As to banning these things...
Sure, loli and shota may be sick and disgusting, but:
Does it hurt anyone?
No.
Does it create, encourage or strengthen any inclinations towards sexual behaviour towards real children?
No.
Is it used to, in some way, assist paedophiles to either commit their crimes, or lessen the negative consequences they may face?
No.
Does it, in any way, directly or in-directly, cause harm.
No.
There is no evidence to say it does, and plenty to say it doesn't ...unlike real child porn (which harms the victim, by it's very existence, for a start).
On what basis, then, should it be banned?
"I don't like it, so it should be banned"?
...because using that motivation, you can ban pretty much ANYTHING.
There are a lot of manga, that portray rape and/or sexual assault. That's nearly as bad.
There are a lot of manga, that portray murder. That is far worse. (if you don't agree, then why don't we kill all children who have been victims of sexual assaults or rape, so as to put them out of their misery?)
Some manga express certain beliefs or attitudes, that they deeply disagree with.
There are a lot of manga, that portray non-belief in religion, which some find utterly deplorable. Some finding it worse than any of the above.
There are a lot of manga, that portray belief in a religion, that differs from theirs, which they find to be only somewhat less bad than non-belief.
Also, where do you draw the line?
How do you determine which character is too young?
What about characters who are 700 years old, but look like they are 8? Or characters who are supposed to be 14-16, but who have bodies that no 14-16 year (but maybe a 18-20 year old) old could possibly have?
I remember a court case, where the "police expert" (from the prosecutors side), who of course knew nothing of art or how stylized art makes her attempts at measurements rather suspect, was asked by the defence attorney to judge the age of the girl in a particular, rather more realistic, drawing. I'd have judged the girl to be around 20 (possibly 16 ...or 26. Hell she could be 30).
She said 11. (also, she said that, because the genitals where blurred/censored [as it must, by Japanese law], this was intended to draw your attention there, further proving it to be pornographic)
This isn't just a problem with drawings, of course, as people have been arrested for child porn, for possessing porn depicting adults, but where at least one of the porn actors where deemed, by the "experts", using their "scientific" methods, to be under-age. Basically, no one appears to have bothered to construct proper ways to determine if a person is under-age or not, but instead rely on tools that were never meant to be used for it, and which are not up to the task.
...and do you limit it to manga? After all, if you ban loli/shota in manga, why not in all other media?
That would make mountains of renowned, important and praised works, instantly banned.
The bible? Banned.
The koran? Banned
Romeo and Juliet (as previously mentioned)? Banned (Romeo and Juliet are both, very much, underage).
Lolita? Banned, of course.
Any works (many of which are autobiographical) detailing romance/lust in adolescents? Banned.
"Don't stand so close to me" - The Police? Banned
"Hot for teacher" - Van Halen? Banned
"Sweet sixteen" - Billy Idol? Banned
"Walk this way" - Aerosmith? Banned
"It" by Stephen King? Banned
I could go on ...for many, many pages. A ludicrous amount of pages.
Edit:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:John_Bauer_-_Princess_ Tuvstarr_gazing_down_into_the_dark_waters_of_the_forest_tar n._-_Google_Art_Project.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Toilet_of_Venus,_by_Fran% C3%A7ois_Boucher.jpghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Toile t_of_Venus,_by_Fran%C3%A7ois_Boucher.jpg
» residentgrigo on November 15th, 2014, 12:08pm
I find it interesting that shota-ban "won" againt loli-ban.
» MinatoAce on November 15th, 2014, 12:33pm
MAN, AM I THE ONLY ONE, WHO GETS SCREWED EVERY DAMN TIME I DO A MULTI POST ? AND GETS MY POSTS FUSED BY ADMINS !!
OR, SOME PEOPLE ABOVE GETS IT TOO...
DON'T COMPLAIN PAL...I ALREADY GOT THREE TIMES !!
» residentgrigo on November 15th, 2014, 12:42pm
» herrdachs on November 15th, 2014, 1:04pm
Sexualization of children in literature? The word lolicon comes from the book "Lolita" written over 50 years ago, look it up.
» takeva on November 15th, 2014, 1:10pm
Serious note. I don't care what your opinion is. I spoke mine, so please explain your problem with what I think about loli/shota?
Will looking up that book change the fact that it's disgusting and needs to be banned?
» zarlan on November 15th, 2014, 1:14pm
Agreed.
Thus, according to takeva's logic, takeva's comments should obviously be banned.
» herrdachs on November 15th, 2014, 1:12pm
» takeva on November 15th, 2014, 1:37pm
lol my reading list xD gawd you people just figured me all out, huh?
» takeva on November 15th, 2014, 1:42pm
Please say yes? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!
» zarlan on November 15th, 2014, 1:45pm
You posted a comment on a public forum.
Why on earth did you think that you were entitled to being able to make a comment (especially a controversial one, where you also say some highly offensive things), without getting backlash?
Yeah, why do people bother to speak out against moral wrongs?
...
*rolls eyes*
Unless the list is a lie, it does reveal that you are reading several works that sexualize children.
» Cthylla on November 15th, 2014, 1:25pm
» takeva on November 15th, 2014, 1:31pm
» zarlan on November 15th, 2014, 1:41pm
I sense a troll...
Having a moral sense?
Ah.
So you admit that you are incapable of changing or leaning, in any way.
I don't really know of any insult I could fling at you, that would be worse than what you have just said of yourself.
» takeva on November 15th, 2014, 1:44pm
Yes.
Yes...
So you admit that you are incapable of changing or leaning, in any way.
I don't really know of any insult I could fling at you, that would be worse than what you have just said of yourself.
Yes?
You know everything!
» zarlan on November 15th, 2014, 1:47pm
Yes...
So you admit that you are incapable of changing or leaning, in any way.
I don't really know of any insult I could fling at you, that would be worse than what you have just said of yourself.
Yes?
You know everything!
...
I shall heed the ancient wisdom: "Don't feed the trolls"
I shall not bother to respond to you anymore
» residentgrigo on November 15th, 2014, 1:38pm
» takeva on November 15th, 2014, 1:50pm
» bnad on November 15th, 2014, 1:59pm
Japan, as one of the most perverted county in the world, has proven itself by having one of the world lowest number in sex crime (and one of the lowest birth rate surprise surprise). It's probably because of the easy access to pornography of any kind, hence providing the means, to relief themselves just by "that". Since it's only fictionalized character, you could argue it's kind of the necessary evil.
But that being said, even with freedom of expression and my above reason, there's nothing to stop the society from making fun of lolicon/shotacon, or warn their friends and family about the lolicon/shotacon in real life. So there's that.
It's very obvious that these people do need professional help. And here's the fact. If word got out in real life that these people are lolicon and shotacon, the society will shun them. I know that, you know that, they know that and people know that.
Get help.
» Cthylla on November 15th, 2014, 2:17pm
» KaoriNite on November 15th, 2014, 6:31pm
It always weirds me out to see people who have overly idealistic views of a country. In the case of Japan, the country has its own share of issues related to sex crimes. @bnad mentioned the low rate of sex crimes in Japan. I think this has more to do with the lack of reporting that happens: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/iatl/reinvention/issue s/volume1issue1/gray/.
Also, until recently child pornography was still legal. Even now, the country has given people a 1-year grace period to get rid of child pornography material (why this takes a year to do is beyond me).
Anyways, a long message just to say don't paint Japan as some perfect country that gets everything right.
As far as should loli and shota be banned, I would say no. I view manga as an art form. If you ban everything that is illegal in real life from art, then people could no longer depict things like murder and robberies in movies. As we know, people can draw distinctions from things they view for fun and things they do in real life. Just being you like watching horror movies doesn't mean you fantasize about killing people. Looking at loli and shota doesn't necessarily mean that you fantasize about assaulting children.
And for people who say that criminals get their ideas from watching tv and movies, that would mean that there were no crimes before the invention of film.
» -shiratori- on November 15th, 2014, 7:47pm
It always weirds me out to see people who have overly idealistic views of a country. In the case of Japan, the country has its own share of issues related to sex crimes. @bnad mentioned the low rate of sex crimes in Japan. I think this has more to do with the lack of reporting that happens: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/iatl/reinvention/issue s/volume1issue1/gray/.
Also, until recently child pornography was still legal. Even now, the country has given people a 1-year grace period to get rid of child pornography material (why this takes a year to do is beyond me).
Anyways, a long message just to say don't paint Japan as some perfect country that gets everything right.
Producing hardcore child pornography was never legal, just possessing it. What was legal is producing softcore porn i.e. semi nudity, lolis in swimsuits and bikinis making suggestive poses and stuff as well as child nudity on film/photo without sexually suggestive content.
I'm for the ban of real child porn, but the international pressure on Japan to enact laws against child porn is just part of a much larger campaign that seeks to force western-style cultural marxism on the Japanese (multiculturalism, open borders, hate speech laws and lgbt rights, to just name a few).
Violent sex crime is barely a problem in Japan. Japan's real problems are underage prostitution and sex tourism.
» KaoriNite on November 15th, 2014, 10:05pm
It always weirds me out to see people who have overly idealistic views of a country. In the case of Japan, the country has its own share of issues related to sex crimes. @bnad mentioned the low rate of sex crimes in Japan. I think this has more to do with the lack of reporting that happens: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/iatl/reinvention/issue s/volume1issue1/gray/.
Also, until recently child pornography was still legal. Even now, the country has given people a 1-year grace period to get rid of child pornography material (why this takes a year to do is beyond me).
Anyways, a long message just to say don't paint Japan as some perfect country that gets everything right.
I'm for the ban of real child porn, but the international pressure on Japan to enact laws against child porn is just part of a much larger campaign that seeks to force western-style cultural marxism on the Japanese (multiculturalism, open borders, hate speech laws and lgbt rights, to just name a few).
Violent sex crime is barely a problem in Japan. Japan's real problems are underage prostitution and sex tourism.
Just a question, do you think that the international pressure is a bad thing? I can't comment much on open borders, but for the other issues you mentioned, I do think that there needs to be a change. I wish that the pressure to change was coming from within Japan rather than outside of it, but (not sure if this is accurate) I don't see Japan as really a country that fights for expanding individual people's rights and freedoms. I remember learning how it wasn't until America came in at the end of WW2 that women's rights were expanded. There didn't seem to be a movement by Japanese women to have more rights.
As far as violent sex crime, I wouldn't say that it's barely a problem. Although, I do agree that underage prostitution is a bigger problem.
» NightSwan on November 15th, 2014, 2:16pm
I think it should be a no for both.
Censorship is not a fun thing.
And besides, those're just drawings. Nobody's getting hurt.
Just wanted to add that those arguments stating that it promotes and encourages similar acts in real life just doesn't hold up.
Have you ever watched somebody getting killed on tv?
Read/watched torture porn?
Did you go out and do any of those?
I think most of us can tell right from wrong.
Those who can't aren't aided by fiction.
» residentgrigo on November 15th, 2014, 2:39pm
They just tend to ignore a LOT but restriction guidelines have become stricter in all sorts of places(especially videogames) in the last years. Be highly productive and get your freak on behind closed doors is their motto. A used pantys machine in the street is more indicative of the neighborhood it is placed and not of their society as a whole.
» unya on November 15th, 2014, 4:08pm
1) drawings do not hurt anyone
2) would you really want the police to waste their time arresting lolicons over arresting actual criminal who hurt children?
» zarlan on November 16th, 2014, 12:55pm
Indeed. That point is pretty serious.
The police generally have limited resources ...and that tends to be especially true of child porn departments, which are often just the one police officer.
A lot of paedophiles get off without any punishment, whatsoever, because the police don't manage to go through all the evidence, before the statute of limitations run out.
Thus criminalizing fictional child porn not only doesn't protect children, but it makes real sex crimes against children, go unpunished. It shields child molesters and owners of real child porn from the police. Either due to the police not having the time/resources to find them, or to actually go through the evidence.
» Sogno on November 15th, 2014, 6:34pm
» residentgrigo on November 15th, 2014, 6:42pm
Even Mr. Negima had some things to say but he writes lolicon porn as hobby(yes he does) so i wasn´t surprised.
Here are some basic facts to conversation sake and yes the National Diet had the same conversation we are now having way to often:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_Japan
Violent video games sell the best. Rated M for MONEY.
» Cthylla on November 15th, 2014, 6:50pm
» fovika on November 15th, 2014, 7:58pm
I don't like loli or shota, but I don't care that it's out there, I just ignore them (as best I can). It has a following and I have no reason to ban it, as it's fiction (clearly, as it is manga). Real life imitation though is a whole other ball park, so can not be compared.
Fiction is fiction. I read romance novels that have werewolves and vampires in it, doesn't mean I wish to meet a werewolf or vampire (that would be creepy and scary and most likely lead to my death).
To read about something and to commit that thing are not the same. You read about a crime, nobody is hurt or harmed. You commit a crime, people are hurt or harmed. People know the difference between fiction and real life, and those who don't are taken out of society (jail, hospital, mental ward...).
» residentgrigo on November 15th, 2014, 8:52pm
» BlackOrion on November 15th, 2014, 8:53pm
Bottom line, I don't see it as a terrible thing, people don't go around beating hookers after playing GTA, nor trying to fly after reading a Superman's comic (unless they have mental problems, but if that's the case then they were bound to do some shit, whatever the reason, when not taken care of properly), so I don't think there is any real need to ban it, but If they did it wouldn't bother me either.
On another note, the people that vote Yes/No or No/Yes do bother me, I understand the people that might want it banned, and people than don't, but the people that think one is ok and the other not strike me as both sexist and hypocritical, don't be dicks people.
» loki lee on November 15th, 2014, 11:20pm
I voted no/no.
Drawings are a victimless crime. If I draw someone getting beheaded or a skull getting f*cked through the eye socket, I'm not going to go out and repeat that. If someone gets off to that - good for them. At least they're not going and recreating that shit themselves. Anyone who takes advantage of a child like that, with full knowledge of what they're doing - is disgusting. But a 2D image? Sure it's not the nicest of hobbies (but neither is reading hard core BL or watching gay porn) but nothing harmful about it. (Unless you believe video games promote violence and rainbows promote homosexuality.)
If we made this stuff illegal how would it even be policed? Would it be "all work featuring participants under 18 is illegal"? But we know 16 year olds have sex. We know that 14 year olds have sex. Highschool students do it - would we ban all those high school shoujo with sex? Maybe it'll say they're 18 but the character has a baby face. Would that be ok? Or would be ban "sexual acts with participants appearing under 18."? Where do we stop?
Do we decide to ban rape too - cause that's illegal in real life. Do we ban the depiction of drugs? Perhaps, if this was 100 years ago - we ban depictions of homosexual acts. What about incest - that's illegal in some places. Censorship is terrifying, and I worry if we begin banning depictions of just one thing, we won't stop.
» CuthienSilmeriel on November 16th, 2014, 12:30am
I find the whole idea disturbing. I live in Japan and frankly there is a worrying amount of sexuality attached to young children. Grown women dress and act like young girl to attract men because cute=desirable. I know that I have no right to judge consenting adults, but I worry about how much of it spills over into not-so consenting children.
I attended natsucomi in Tokyo once, and made the mistake of strolling through the cosplay section. Granted there were some amazing costumes, but there were also a number of older women dressed as very young girls (like under 10) surrounded by men of all ages with cameras pulling sexually suggestive poses. It was wrong on so many levels.
I don't care what you call it, art, free speech, and outlet of desire, sexualising children in anyway is sick and should not be acceptable. I feel that allowing it in one form desensitises people to the shocking nature of the action, thus possibly leading to escalation until real, innocent children are abused. So I'm 100% in support of a ban on all forms of child pornography.
» Nirhtuc on November 16th, 2014, 5:21am
» residentgrigo on November 16th, 2014, 5:46am
» Dumber on November 16th, 2014, 6:32am
sure ban cp,,, but loli aint **child pornography,** its FICTION its DRAWN...how the hell can ppl compare them.......
» colonywars on November 16th, 2014, 10:51am
I voted Yes / Yes
Yes, because I wrote from country, where this kind of materials are prohibited. But I am fully aware, that there are countries like for example Japan, which are (in)famous from this kind of stuff…
Yes, it should be banned. And not only this but Ero-Guro also. This site is the largest manga database in the World. You are unable to verify the age of Your users. There is 18+ restriction, but is can be easily bypassed by making an account, but only then it is only show cover images. The content, the summary is accessible even without an account.
This site is visited by many Minors, and some content is unacceptable for them. It is easily for them to accidentally step across things, which They should not see or be aware of it yet. Even on some hentai readers there are loli/ shota restrictions!
There comes a time for everything, sex, drinking, making driving license, reading hentai, Guro, Main Kampf, loli / shota, Bible, Koran, and it is a role of Parents and Adults (teachers, priests, ect.) to protect and inform Our children about it, and any other threads they may encounter in Their lives. Curiosity can sometimes kill the cat. And even We Adults have problems with acceptations of some fictional contents. I read recently “Highschool Girl in Concrete” by Uziga, and I DO NOT wish to mine, or any other minor, children to find accidentally or on purpose something like this, until They will be grown old enough to comprehend this stuff. This applies to any content, to which you just need to be Adult enough.
So for people who voted no /no explain this to Your children why in this hentai fictional manga, You like to read or drawn so much, the main motive could be (using TAGS cloud): “gangbanged, incest, double insertion, double penetration, scat, guro, rape on drugged 9 years old girl with mind break and suicide from guilt of being cut into the face, slut”. Or read Them Nabokov’s Lolita Or let Them sexualize Them self with Playboy, as They wish. And that You really do not want to harm Them by this, or any of Their minor, under aged friends. This is good as long, as it does not hit YOU personally.
Be a good Parents
Thank You.
Sorry for My rusted English
» kitty1826x on November 16th, 2014, 12:03pm
MU is fine the way it is. Yes, it doesn't require you verify if you're 18, but honestly does that do anything? If a kid can read they could lie and click "Yes, I am 18" anyways, or do the math and put in a date of birth that says they are 18 or older. It would be an added hassle all that when it's contents are already have some restrictions.
If you find of of the images of the cover art too vulgar or inappropriate you can report it.Since
As for the summaries, *sigh* if a kid is old enough to read, and go on the internet alone than he or she is old enough to know what kind of manga not to read, what genres to avoid, and (Since kids these days are tech friendly) know how to use the advance search to exclude certain tags.
If the child needs to be supervised while on the internet, well that's the big deal? The supervisor can quickly go, no don't go there, and quickly click onto another page.
I am not the sort of parent that would leave my kid completely oblivious to the horrors or kinks in the world, but than again I'm not giving full details either. (Just slowly easing my way into them knowing these kinds of things.) But that follows more my logic of if my kid knows enough about sex and all the consequences I'm still not promoting underage sex, but I would know my kid knows better. (Instead of the hypothetical coming home one day pregnant because they had no idea what condoms were, or something)
Don't blame this site for already doing it's job of keeping it all age friendly. It's a parents job to filter these things (either completely or a lot) until they are ready to know of these things.
I do have kids and I still wouldn't want these things banned. If they are old enough to be on the internet by themselves, I can either put parental locks for certain things. Or in my case I may not even do that once they hit a certain age. I know I was already reading BL's at 14. I was mature enough back then, my kids may be mature enough at 15 or 16 for loli/shota but they may not even be into it. (They may just take a glance and then know to avoid that from now on)
Most of what I want to say on the matter zarlan said
Sure, loli and shota may be sick and disgusting, but:
Does it hurt anyone?
No.
Does it create, encourage or strengthen any inclinations towards sexual behaviour towards real children?
No.
Is it used to, in some way, assist paedophiles to either commit their crimes, or lessen the negative consequences they may face?
No.
Does it, in any way, directly or in-directly, cause harm.
No.
There is no evidence to say it does, and plenty to say it doesn't ...unlike real child porn (which harms the victim, by it's very existence, for a start).
On what basis, then, should it be banned?
"I don't like it, so it should be banned"?
...because using that motivation, you can ban pretty much ANYTHING.
There are a lot of manga, that portray rape and/or sexual assault. That's nearly as bad.
There are a lot of manga, that portray murder. That is far worse. (if you don't agree, then why don't we kill all children who have been victims of sexual assaults or rape, so as to put them out of their misery?)
Some manga express certain beliefs or attitudes, that they deeply disagree with.
There are a lot of manga, that portray non-belief in religion, which some find utterly deplorable. Some finding it worse than any of the above.
There are a lot of manga, that portray belief in a religion, that differs from theirs, which they find to be only somewhat less bad than non-belief.
Also, where do you draw the line?
How do you determine which character is too young?
What about characters who are 700 years old, but look like they are 8? Or characters who are supposed to be 14-16, but who have bodies that no 14-16 year (but maybe a 18-20 year old) old could possibly have?
I remember a court case, where the "police expert" (from the prosecutors side), who of course knew nothing of art or how stylized art makes her attempts at measurements rather suspect, was asked by the defence attorney to judge the age of the girl in a particular, rather more realistic, drawing. I'd have judged the girl to be around 20 (possibly 16 ...or 26. Hell she could be 30).
She said 11. (also, she said that, because the genitals where blurred/censored [as it must, by Japanese law], this was intended to draw your attention there, further proving it to be pornographic)
This isn't just a problem with drawings, of course, as people have been arrested for child porn, for possessing porn depicting adults, but where at least one of the porn actors where deemed, by the "experts", using their "scientific" methods, to be under-age. Basically, no one appears to have bothered to construct proper ways to determine if a person is under-age or not, but instead rely on tools that were never meant to be used for it, and which are not up to the task.
...and do you limit it to manga? After all, if you ban loli/shota in manga, why not in all other media?
That would make mountains of renowned, important and praised works, instantly banned.
The bible? Banned.
The koran? Banned
Romeo and Juliet (as previously mentioned)? Banned (Romeo and Juliet are both, very much, underage).
Lolita? Banned, of course.
Any works (many of which are autobiographical) detailing romance/lust in adolescents? Banned.
"Don't stand so close to me" - The Police? Banned
"Hot for teacher" - Van Halen? Banned
"Sweet sixteen" - Billy Idol? Banned
"Walk this way" - Aerosmith? Banned
"It" by Stephen King? Banned
I voted No/No if you couldn't guess yet, heh.
» Badkarma on November 16th, 2014, 12:20pm
Mostly because when you start making fictional works conform to actual laws, then what? You'd close a lot of creative doors.
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