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Edit: Really guys? Fine, I've edited the question slightly to fit your more sensitive needs.
You can submit poll ideas here (and try to keep them manga/anime-related)
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903
Previous Poll Resuts:
Question: Have you ever camped out overnight or lined up for a long time to buy something right when it came out or for a large sale?
Choices:
Yes, I camped out and I'd do it again - votes: 349 (3.9%)
Yes, I camped out, and never again... - votes: 156 (1.8%)
I lined up for a while, but not overnight - votes: 1254 (14.1%)
Not yet, but I'd consider doing it - votes: 1448 (16.3%)
Never, and let's keep it that way - votes: 5672 (63.9%)
There were 8879 total votes.
The poll ended: June 13th 2015
I'm surprised a lot of people would consider camping out overnight. I wonder what would convince you to actually do it?
Comments (limited to first 100 replies)
» NightSwan on June 13th, 2015, 1:46am
I probably read shounen the least, but not because I hate it. I just find more stories less appealing.
» Klaster_1 on June 13th, 2015, 2:03am
» MinatoAce on June 13th, 2015, 2:38am
But, if you ask for something close, it would be Shoujo demographic...because I never read them and never will...the drawing style, and all the shitty sparkling annoys me...simply speaking, It's just not for me...! So, my vote goes on Shoujo!
Now, I don't have much problem with Josei...though, I haven't read much of them either!
If you are a little experienced on this subject, you probably already know that, people often mistake Joshi manga like 07 Ghost for a Shounen make...so, yeah...time to times they're CooL...
Okay...my favourite demographic is Seinen...I love the reality of it and at times' the blood rushing moments...
Shounen is the demographic, I'm most familiar with, and have most of the experience with...I really enjoy it...^^
Well, Seinen's level is many times higher than Shounen...one of the reason would be that, most of the Shounen follows some similar pattern and many similarities like Protagonist types, most of the Shounen protagonist babble Justice, love blah blah blah crap...well that's good for teaching kids good things, but, doesn't contains that much really...while Seinen tends to be unique...
If you are still wondering about the difference, you just need to go and compare the crime levels, and you're on!!
P.S. I didn't said things written above on any specific series, but, the specific demographic ~!
» calstine on June 13th, 2015, 3:16am
Of course, I'm not voting in this poll. There are manga I absolutely adore in every major demographic. (That ought to have been an option, you know: "I don't hate any of the 4 major demographics," or something along those lines)
» Faukner on June 13th, 2015, 3:19am
» darkraiders on June 13th, 2015, 4:03am
» philip72 on June 13th, 2015, 8:16am
This confrms what I've long thought about mangaupdates.com, that while its userbase is primarily male, the female minority are by far the most vocal users here.
» hahhah42 on June 13th, 2015, 9:36am
It's rather strange that you came to this conclusion, given the first part of your post gives a plausible explanation why the results would favor shoujo in this poll regardless of the actual demographics of MU. Anyway...
The last time MU had a poll specifically asking for the users' gender and nothing else was in October 2008 (so ancient history now); the split was female 51.1% and male 48.9%.
The last time MU had a poll in which every response required giving a gender ended on February 7th of this year (the yaoi or yuri poll); the "I'm female and..." responses tallied 51.6% of the vote.
Between these two, in 2013-2014, there were 3 other polls requiring users specify their gender with their response; females were in the majority in 2 of them. (Old poll data here.)
In short, there's not much evidence that females are to any significant extent a minority on MU.
» dezin19 on June 13th, 2015, 12:41pm
The last time MU had a poll specifically asking for the users' gender and not ...
Yes! What some people (usually guys) don't understand it that anyone can read any genre. Lot's of girls/women like to read "male" genres, while some guys do read "female" genres. I'm female and I read all genres, but probably dislike shoujo the most (at least the romance kind). You can't tell someone's gender by their hobbies or what they like to read.
» imercenary on June 13th, 2015, 9:28pm
Assuming people don't lie/rig the polls in huge numbers, Mangaupdates has a 50/50 male/female demographic.
If anything, it probably has to do with the fact that shounen and seinen stories are (generally speaking) "gender-neutral" genres. You don't have to be a male just to like DBZ or One Piece.
By comparison, shoujo and josei stories are (generally speaking) VERY heavily female orientated.
Female: "Its a story about love~"
Male: "Thats nice, so why should I read it over another X shoujo/josei story?"
Female: "...CAUSE I SAID SO!"
» Calamansi on June 13th, 2015, 11:49pm
If anything, it probably has to do with the fact that shounen and seinen stories are (generally speaking) "gender-neutral" genres. You don't have to be a male just to like DBZ or One ...
Ehh, I disagree. Not about the MU demographic (I remember that poll), but your generalization of shounen/seinen/shoujo/josei stories. I enjoy plenty of shounen and seinen series, even when it's quite obvious they were intended for a male audience (otherwise we'd have less damsels in distress, better romantic subplots, and more shirtless guy fanservice dammit). I dislike the idea of masculine being treated as "gender-neutral" while feminine remains an outlier, though the English language itself seems to propagate this belief.
I believe it's more about gender expectations. Society tends to be much more lenient towards girls who express interest in masculine things, as opposed to vice versa.
It's clear by your little dialogue that your exploration of shoujo and josei titles thus far has been quite shallow... And that you haven't had a serious conversation with anybody who's tried to convince you to do otherwise. Why should you read X shoujo/josei over Y? It could be due to a plethora of reasons. They're demographics, not genres. The only shared theme is the fact that the publisher decided to put them in a women's magazine because they assumed that's where most of their profits would come from.
For example, I'd recommend 7 Seeds over Midnight Secretary because the former focuses on character development, world building, and survival, whereas the latter tells the story of how some average office lady manages to get in bed with her sexy, rich, abusive, blood-sucking superior (obviously not my cup of tea).
In the end, I believe it just boils down to individual tastes and how comfortable you are with expressing them and discovering new interests. But, as I've mentioned before, girls tend to face less criticism for such a thing, and thus we have the lopsided results of this poll.
Which really needs a fifth option that goes along the lines of "I don't hate any of 'em" to give more people on this site a voice.
» auriga on June 14th, 2015, 7:55am
There's no need for a "neutral" option. The question has been amended (I'm going by lamb's word as I never saw the original question), and depending on how one chooses to interpret it it is actually possible to respond objectively without having to change the existing options.
» Calamansi on June 14th, 2015, 9:42am
To respond to the actual poll, nowadays I read shoujo the least, though back when I first started manga it was shoujo, shoujo, and more shoujo. Now that I read less manga (I've gotten pickier), the series that I follow now are mostly ones I started years ago, and a lot of the shounen and seinen series I like have a habit of... not ending.
» imercenary on June 17th, 2015, 7:30pm
Sure but which society are your talking about? In "Western" societies, yeah. Thats a fair statement. But in Japanese society? Sorry, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Actually I've read a number of volumes of 7 Seeds, before I dropped it. Is it still ongoing? The only memories I really have of it are; theres more than 4 survivors and they find more, people were chronologically frozen( ), the plot is reminiscent of Fallout and it goes nowhere.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
» Calamansi on June 18th, 2015, 4:16pm
Why in the world would I be referring to Japanese society? We've had previous polls that confirm the majority of the users on this site are from North America and Europe.
It sounds like you dropped 7 Seeds fairly early. Tamura-sensei tends to flesh out the characters before throwing lots of plot at you. Which is the order I prefer (I'd rather care about the characters I'm reading about). Kudos for giving it a shot, though. I remember reading 1 volume and dropping it for over a year before I picked it up again and marathoned the heck out of it.
Sorry, I don't understand your reaction to the part you bolded, unless your experiences in the matter have been completely different. I was never ridiculed for being into RC cars, liking DBZ, getting into fights, or having mostly male friends when I was younger. Can't say the same for the boys who admitted they liked pink or playing with dolls.
Fast forward several years and now I have male friends who I have to pester before they admit they did something "girly" like cry during Angel Beats.
» imercenary on June 20th, 2015, 8:29pm
Because theres no point in comparing Western gender expectations in something that was originally designed for Japanese audiences. All it does is reveal the fact that you're an ignorant fool. For all you know, MU might have had a massive influx of male Japanese manga readers who voted for Shoujo because they're afraid to admit they hate the genre publicly.
Fast forward several years and now I have male friends who I have to pester before they admit they did something "girly" like cry during Angel Beats.
Because neither of us knows each other's background, your initial statement is meaningless.
» Calamansi on June 21st, 2015, 11:56am
There is a point to the comparison because this is a discussion about a poll on a site with a largely western userbase, as previous poll results have reflected. Understand that, while manga is originally designed for a Japanese audience, the polls on this site are not (hence why they're, you know, in English).
Don't go around throwing insults when you have nothing to back your claim of some sort of "influx of male Japanese manga readers". I originally brought up Western gender expectations because this is a site with a majority of North American and European users. Don't believe me? Simply visit the list of older polls and search "continent". In a more recent poll, only 2 percent of respondents stated their primary language was Japanese. You're grasping at straws; I'm simply pointing out facts.
Also, remember that my first several posts were made in reference to the poll's older wording. Initially, many users responded to this poll negatively because they like works from all four of the demographics. I simply voiced an opinion as to what could be the underlying cause behind the amount of prejudice we saw against the female oriented demographics. I used your original post as a reference for my argument, but it wasn't meant as a direct attack to you.
That was an open invitation for you to describe your own experiences in the matter. Initially you yourself agreed (or at least said it was a "fair statement") that in western societies, girls face less criticism for expressing interest in masculine things as opposed to vice versa. If you've observed the exact opposite to be true, then please tell - I'm always willing to expand my views of the world. This is supposed to be a discussion, not some sort of battleground for who's "right" or "wrong". However, by your continued use of disparaging language, I see you are less than willing to continue on in a mature manner, so we can end this here. The poll was changed to include "read the least", so I'm already happy.
» imercenary on June 21st, 2015, 6:06pm
Yes, but citing a Western poll about how people think/believe about manga is meaningless since Westerners aren't the target audience in the first place.
You could have a similar poll about Western novel genres given to Japanese audiences and be given similarly extreme results.
Yes, it was a "fair statement" because it was broad, vague statement. What do you consider "Western"? By some standards, Japan is a "Western" country yet Japan is the same country where there are women-only train cars due to molestation.
This isn't a classroom nor am I a teacher. If you're not stating your intentions or questions clearly, there is little to discuss.
» Calamansi on June 21st, 2015, 6:51pm
This isn't a classroom nor am I a teacher. If you're not stating your intentions or questions clearly, there is little to discuss.
You were the one who initially brought up the whole Western society vs Japanese/ Eastern society dilemma, so I'd like to hear your own opinions on what distinguishes the two.
Unfortunately, the only countries I've been to are the United States, Canada, China, and Japan. As far as the cardinal points are concerned, the former two and the latter two represent countries positioned in the extremes of the western and eastern directions, respectively. However, we both know that we mostly use geography to group the two different societies together, and geography only begins to explain their intricacies.
From personal experiences, I could try describing how the US and Canada simply "felt" different from the nations I visited in the east, but it would be terribly biased and inaccurate because I've spent a disproportionate amount of time in the States. I could also regurgitate the things I learned back in AP World History, but that'd be an essay neither of us would want to plow through (though if you're really interested, we can continue this over PM).
You could have a similar poll about Western novel genres given to Japanese audiences and be given similarly extreme results.
You believe citing a Western poll is meaningless? Even though the poll I'm citing is the one we're currently discussing? It's only natural to reference it, since it's the topic. I don't see the point in continuing this discussion if you believe the very topic is meaningless. We've gotten enough off-topic as is.
» imercenary on June 21st, 2015, 7:10pm
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh......
I believe citing a Western poll on a Japanese subject is misleading. And a number of people claimed that the poll itself was poorly worded.
If you think that a poorly worded (and since edited) poll about a Japanese topic from a primarily-Western audience holds a lot of weight, there is nothing to discuss.
» Calamansi on June 21st, 2015, 8:06pm
There you go, using "uhh" again as if people can read your mind. If you have a differing opinion, then state it; otherwise, don't bother saying anything at all because you're coming across as rude and not contributing much to the discussion. What you quoted is comparable to an introductory statement I would've used in a timed writing; don't take it as an answer in full.
As far as this topic goes, yes, the poll results are relevant because this is the place for discussing said poll. I never attempted to make any overarching statements that could explain the way manga demographics, in general, are viewed - just the way they are viewed on this site. If I did, I would have 1). Been off topic and 2). Definitely cited data on Japanese opinions.
I would've guessed otherwise initially, but it seems you dislike this poll more than I do, and I was one of the people who first opposed to the wording. I don't know what you're here for, but I was interested in discussing the poll's results, which now make more sense based on the new wording. I've only continued this discussion because you made false assumptions about my argument and then deemed it fit to claim I was "ignorant" or a "fool" based on said assumptions within the same posts. Not cool.
» imercenary on June 22nd, 2015, 10:19am
So are you or are you not a mind reader?
So are you making overarching statements or not?
I don't dislike the poll, before or after the edit. What I dislike is the MU community is getting itself into a frenzy over the poll. The idea that MU readers "hate" or "dislike" genres like Shoujo and Josei ultimately meaningless since so many MU readers lack the cultural/social background to understand those genres in the first place. Therefore, its only natural that they will "hate" or "dislike" the genre.
» takeva on June 13th, 2015, 4:22am
» Natsuki@ on June 13th, 2015, 4:31am
For me this poll is kinda pointless because I do not really hate any genre it's more that I do not like some art styles or story types. Also demographic hate is weird to me because it aims at a group of readers. It would be like saying sports book suck just because I'm female, while it aims more to guys but I'm sure some females read them.
» RoxFlowz on June 13th, 2015, 4:35am
» VawX on June 13th, 2015, 5:09am
» toshirodragon on June 13th, 2015, 5:49am
I probably read shounen the least, but that's because a lot of them are sports manga and I don't like sports that much.
» Nirhtuc on June 13th, 2015, 6:46am
» Cthylla on June 13th, 2015, 6:49am
» Lost Rabbit on June 13th, 2015, 8:23am
» mikako17 on June 13th, 2015, 8:36am
Anyway, I don't hate any demographic especially with how manga for different demographics are now branching more into different genres. I have to say though, that I've really outgrown Shoujo and don't read it much anymore (I still really enjoy shounen e.g. One Piece, Hunter x Hunter, etc) and like Calstine I think scanlators need to scanlate some better quality Josei since personally most of them feel like Shoujo 2.0. So if it was vote for least favorite, I would have voted for Shoujo.
» Calamansi on June 13th, 2015, 9:34am
I believe "most hesitant to read" or "contains the most annoying cliches" would have been better questions.
» dezin19 on June 13th, 2015, 12:38pm
The shoujo manga I dislike are romance with the cutesy art and cliche plots (what most people think when they hear "shoujo"). However, works like Natsume Yuujinchou are awesome.
The seinen manga I really dislike are...boobs. Just boobs everywhere (especially the ridiculously large ones that somehow defy gravity) and other stupid body depictions like gigantor muscles and stuff. I'm not against violence and blood, but the over-the-top crap done for the sole sake of making a work "more manly" is annoying. However, there are some decent seinen manga out there (like Ouroboros, though Ouroboros still uses the "useless female" trope).
That said, there are things I dislike and like in every genre.
» Lost Rabbit on June 13th, 2015, 2:49pm
There are a ton of great seinen series that I find to be good examples for representing the demographic, and most of them do go beyond your expectations for what would be considered as "decent," such as:
I Am a Hero,
Dorohedoro,
The Voynich Hotel,
Gate - Jietai Kare no Chi nite, Kaku Tatakeri,
Keyman - The Hand of Judgement,
Renai Boukun,
Sidonia no Kishi,
Vagabond,
Otoyomegatari,
Berserk,
Hare Kon. (still needs time to develop tbh...),
Omaera Zenin Mendokusai!,
etc. etc. etc.
Check any of em if u want. If u don't like any of them, that's fine, but I think it's overall always nice to get some recs from someone.
» MinatoAce on June 14th, 2015, 7:21am
Are you certain that you're not mixing things up ?
"boobs" ?! Are you sure, that, you're not mistaking Shounen for Seinen ?
If you've not mistaken, then unfortunately you've only read sucky ones...
Please read some descent seinen like 20th Century Boys, Eden - It's an Endless World! etc. before making a statement on seinen ~!
» auriga on June 13th, 2015, 9:11pm
» herrdachs on June 14th, 2015, 12:13am
Josei can be very enjoyable reads, if I find something good, which is rare for me. It becomes more of a search than just jumping straight into as soon as I see it, unlike seinen and shounen.
Shoujo... I just can't, the art, the stories... ugh. I mean shounen can be much the same most of the time, but at least they appeal to me as a guy.
» residentgrigo on June 15th, 2015, 6:27am
Half the reason I came up with the question was to provoke a reaction and i further took my wording from the prequel on March 9th 2013 where the female targeted Yaoi won with 40% and hentai came next with 20%. Yaoi though also won the "Favorite Demographic?" poll from October 18th 2008 with 21%. "Demographic you read the most?" from April 25th 2014 had Yaoi as a runner up with 21% after Shonen with 27%. Fascinating but the respective forum is also a traffic tycoon.
Our downright schizophrenic poll mausoleum is certainly worth a look.
I suspect that the site has more female then male users (the margin could be small) or the Manga Fu Genre Filter / Highlight settings would look different amongst other hints which have been pointed out. Imercenary´s to the point breakdown of genres is spot on.
» NightSwan on June 15th, 2015, 9:47am
It's not the same as to find something less interesting or appealing.
Yaoi and hentai are much more common (wouldn't say reasonable) targets of hatred, because they depict, for the most part, explicit sex which remains more controversial than violence, for example.
Think of it more like the bara of demographics. A niche, if you will.
The main demographics, like the base colors, are much more varied in their depictions and themes, while being much less offensive to many, at least generally.
Which is also why I don't see the reason for your calling the poll results "schizophrenic".
You may suspect, but according to MU's own polls (unless you choose to disregard them), it's pretty equal.
» residentgrigo on June 15th, 2015, 10:54am
Violence is more controversial in big parts if western Europe as Blue Is the Warmest Color (the comic is superior) or Nymphomaniacis are 16+ over here. The Passion of the Christ though proved to be a flop in the very Christian Germany while America soaked it up.
All 3 are respectable film though.
Japan on the other hand started to turn away from both forms of extreme of content in the mass (that part is important) market and especially 80s manga are more wild then the ones of today. Hard content is further unheard off on nighttime tv (2/3+ of today´s anime) as Psycho-Pass 2 met with backlash when the new team decided to commit to the violent nature the story that predecessor didn´t show on screen and was even forbidden by the sponsors. The fact that the identical in story Psycho Pass anime (josei), manga (shonen) and novels (seinen) shows how pointless our categorizing monikers can be. Or should... but pleas do it right dear updaters.
US comics started to changed their tune as the 3rd biggest publisher Image now has 15+ rated books as East of West with non sexualised breasts, dismemberment and swearing. Their or Avatars 17+ books can´t even be published in Japan as is and the last 2 Eisner winners Saga and Sex Criminals are exceptionally sexual but both now have more female then male readers. Both are LGBT community darlings too.
Digital publishing should be the way to solve the inherent hypocrisy of the current state of manga as especially politic statements are nearly unheard of now but that is another topic and European comics have always embraced the sexual and violent (or homosexual / pornographic) content due to Frances rather liberal stance on such matters who are the driving force of that market. Back to manga.
I have a bit of an axe to grind with one of the 4 members of the manga god hand but that will come later as i have zero interest to derail my own discussion piece.
The notion that a target audience in inherently unhateable is already a good think piece and the way the percentages are staring to shake out is getting interesting.
» silver and blue on June 15th, 2015, 11:43am
» crazyboutcute on June 15th, 2015, 10:12pm
» licorice on June 16th, 2015, 8:33am
» residentgrigo on June 18th, 2015, 12:07pm
Helter Skelter and Maihime Terepsikola won the Tezuka Grand Prize and A Cruel God Reigns the runner up award but this low amount of such wins for the highest critical honor a manga can get (yes Shoujo is underrepresented too) is telling.
Enough Josei works even win Shoujo awards or random essay/special prizes so the critics can´t care that much. A higher honor is to get an anime (long and during the day if possible) but Josei ones barely exist anymore (and most modern Shoujo shows are night time only ~sigh). Even Noitamina which was supposed to give us/me such has gone astray. They can very well get life action adaptions but my respect for these is rather low due to the no budget nature and none can get rich that way.
The clear goal for at least the publisher is to become a bestseller but best-selling manga only shows me Sazae-san that became a family targeted anime franchise and is thus Josei in the same way Shin Chan is Seinen, Nana (i tried fixing but wiki don´t care) and Nodame Cantabile that got a full anime by Noitamina so i will take it as an exception to the rule and crown it king even if Tomoko now joined the Seinen club.
Chihayafuru is currently having a good go at it too but both also won a Shoujo award. See how little this makes sense? As if the market doesn't care about putting publications into boxes that stop after one turns 30-ish. I am already too old to be targeted by traditional Seinen (it means youth) if i go by our definition alone but the older shewing Weekly Manga Times / Gorakudo exist, so does Like Shooting Stars in the Twilight (the Bande dessinée market is flooded with such tales) and the king of the mountain Golgo 13 is even read by high ranking politicians. Pointing out the reverse for Josei is way harder and recent major trend are all males casts and series that come of as Shonen so what is the point again?
Emma, Town of Evening Calm, Country of Cherry Blossoms, Working Man or magazines as Fellow! could/should be Josei and who knows how the readership shakes out but the publishers will have a reason for the marketing decision. I further gave perfect scores to Honey and Clover where the author is now a Seinen girl (a lot of quality female writers tend to go for the male market after establishing themselves) and Kids on the Slope but the manga still hasn´t come to America and only the rushed Watanabe anime.
Josei magazines tend to further be niche (have fun listing a few without a database) and manga as Paradise Kiss can even be published in lifestyle or fashion magazines which is fine but that brings me to my last and most severe reason. Josei is the demographic that covers the least amount of topics with the male publications winning with a landslide here. Content limitations differences between Shoujo and Josei tend to be less severe when compared to male ones due to the lesser amount of themes covered (e.g. Death Note refused to get political and sociological) and girls get enough Smut and Shonen-ai instead of Yaoi. The perfect Mars or Please Save My Earth wouldn?t have improved if they got to run in a more grown up magazine and Nana straight out breaks the system.
The difference between both is that they are placed in different corners in book stores (remember those?) and one is predominantly about high school freshmen finding the love of their life while the other is about OL´s below the age of 27 finding the husband of their dreams if one is honest. I may understand that Japan considers comics and games a children?s hobby that one is supposed to outgrow but i frankly expect more.
Variety isn´t quality too but the much derailed girls manga have more reach of genre content despite the obvious negative contractions and they are a gateway drug in a way that the older sister isn´t. Josei is even the least represented amongst my reading list as it is statistically the rarest one. Agree or not but Mikako17 gave it the moniker Shoujo 2.0 and math doesn´t lie as scanlators can´t be "blamed" alone here.
Thus i dislike, nay hate that the demographic isn´t getting a time to shine but these are a sham anyway (please note my job and i have been a comic/anime guy since the 90s) and i highly suggest to look at the respective magazine when you next consider a manga´s demographic as Seinen by Young Animal isn´t the one even Young Animal Arashi will give you to keep it simple. Printed magazines are furthermore Dinosaurs and not a good format to begin with so I, For One, Welcome Our New Digital Overlords.
Bleach was mentioned so i will note that One Piece is now technically a Seinen manga with healthy amount of female readers. Even at my library and our Madoka manga are in constant rotation by girl between 12-16 but aren´t these for serious adult men only?
NBC´s ultra-gory Hannibal gained more female then male viewers which now influenced the show runner´s decision to not go into the sexual violence aspect of the source material and how many porn sites use My Little Pony as mascots as modern day Meo is more of a Seinen phenomenon than anything. Even veterans of the I'm Looking For board don´t take demographic only requests that strictly.
Berserk was lastly envisioned as Shonen once upon a time . Thank god Hakusensha snapped him up and not Akita Shoten but Vinland Saga was published as a boys manga for a bit in 2005 too. Of course! I wouldn´t even call male targeted manga that much more sexist as the one´s for women but that is another topic.
I just know that female targeted publication are easier to spot then male ones and my respect for girls manga as a medium is only marginally lower the the ones for boys if i had to line up all 4 in order of quality. Japan also takes the girl comic market way more serious then any other nation currently so that one has my respect overall.
» mysstris on June 19th, 2015, 12:46pm
Shoujo
Seinen
Shounen
I have nothing against Shounen but it just so happens to be the type I read the least of.
» Calamansi on June 22nd, 2015, 10:39am
Clarification: I cannot translate non-committal grunts. However, like you, I am capable of making assumptions. If I was false in doing so, feel free to tell me.
Not ones about people's views on manga demographics on a global perspective. Did you not read the part that says, "that could explain the way demographics, in general, are viewed"?
You seem to be avoiding several of my direct questions - even though I have tried to pose them as bluntly as possible, as per your request. Still waiting for your own experiences on gender expectations, and what you define as "eastern" or "western". But I'll try again, 'cause I'm curious.
What makes you so confident that the MU community's opinion on the matter is null and void? Have you lived in, or are you currently living in Japan? Or have you extensively studied Japanese culture? Sure, manga was originally intended for a Japanese audience, but as far as I'm aware we're all humans in a highly globalized world, with exposure to media and entertainment from all sorts of countries. Many of us responded that we don't hate any of the genres. Personally, I don't dislike any of them; I just read shoujo the least because I mostly follow long, ongoing series, and all the shoujo I really like tend to be max 50 chapters.
I'm not saying you're wrong; I just want to know your reasons, and the source of your confidence.
» imercenary on June 24th, 2015, 4:53pm
I don't know if you were false because I don't know what you're talking about.
Seeing as MU polls barely push 20,000 votes, I think you have a very narrow view on demographics.
My experiences on gender expectations? Guy get blue, girls get pink. What do you want me to say?
I define "Eastern" or "Western" based on the context.
Based on the fact that the overwhelming majority of the MU community does not live in Japan nor do they buy Japanese copies of manga?
» Calamansi on June 24th, 2015, 6:36pm
And I think you're confused - I was still referring to manga demographics in the quoted text. I don't see why you brought up the whole 20,000 votes thing, unless you think I was inferring that this poll would be the sample to use when explaining how manga demographics, as a whole, are viewed. 'Cause I wasn't.
I was curious because you initially reacted so vehemently when you misunderstood one of my earlier posts. I thought there was a personal reason behind you insinuating the idea that, unlike in countries with more Western cultures, women in Japan do not face less criticism for expressing interest in masculine things than men.
Well, okay. I'm sure most people do, since they're such vague concepts. Still doesn't answer the question, but I don't care anymore.
But neither do you, apparently. Which is why I find it... jarring, to say the least, that you make definitive statements such as how the MU community's opinion is "meaningless". I thought such confidence stemmed from a certain level of credibility (like you having actually been to Japan, at least), but, judging from the fact you haven't stated otherwise, I suppose not.
In the future, I advise you consider your own experiences and knowledge base before making claims of how someone else is an "ignorant fool" or "knows nothing" (which I now know were due to a misunderstanding) in reference to a subject (i.e. Japanese culture) that you, yourself, seem to have little credibility in. It's one thing to disagree; it's another to rudely assert your own opinion.
But whatever, I feel like I've gone lecture-y on you enough, and though I've done a terrible job of proving otherwise that honestly isn't my style. Feel free to take my advice or ignore it or give some sort of inflammatory response; I'm done.
» imercenary on June 24th, 2015, 10:35pm
If you were referring to manga demographics outside of MU; two words, Citation Needed.
Ah no. You genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/22/japanese-par liament-to-women-breed-don-t-lead.html
I don't but I used to import Japanese manga (Hurray for Magic Knight Rayearth artbooks!). Nonetheless, it meaningless.
Its long been known that publishers use the sales figures/popularity polls for manga volumes sold to gauge whether or not to keep a manga ongoing. If the manga doesn't sell/garner votes, it doesn't matter what the MU community or international readers think. The manga gets dropped. English copies do not factor into that since they're only published long after its been "tested" in Japanese markets and English popularity polls are not used/taken.
The idea that you think that you've been lecturing this whole time without knowing this basic industry fact demonstrates your remarkable ego. I can only imagine you dread the prospect of recognizing your own deflated self-esteem.
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