manga04_jpg login_tab_left_jpg
Username:   Password:    Forgot Password?
App
Try out our new iPhone application!
App
Manga Poll
Do you spend more time on anime or manga?
I do both, but more anime
I do both, but more manga
About the same amount of time for both
I don't watch anime at all
I don't read manga at all
 
See Old Polls

Manga is the Japanese equivalent of comics
with a unique style and following. Join the revolution! Read some manga today!

Coded in ConTEXT

Join #baka-updates @irc.irchighway.net

RSS Feed
 
center_left_tab Forums center_right_tab

You are now viewing a topic.

"Anime/Manga is racist" is a faulty statement

Back to Manga General


Pages (4) [ 1 2 3 4 ] Next You must be registered to post!
From User Message Body
movingstone
Post #597718
Member

6:11 am, May 5 2013
Posts: 155


People often throw out these etc etc is racist. And I don't think they know what the definition of the word is.

"1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race."

Definition 1 certainly doesn't fit in Anime. Also I am talking about anime/manga and not about the Japanese's sentiment some 70 years ago during WW2. But their national pride granted them quite an immunity from Western imperialism (they started their own, I know).

Definition 2 can be a sound argument to certain characters in certain series. But often the color of a characters do not necessary represent a nationality, ethic, and or race in reality. Take Naruto, well you could say hmm B is kinda a bit stereotypical black. But then what about the rest of his village? The Third Raikage is not particularly represent any race. How about Karui? Omoi? Darui? But then you have to say the lighter shade character must represent a race (totally not true) so that the dark shade characters represent blacks. And in this diverse cast of dark shade characters, why can't one character do the rapping thing. And I don't see no black person who played around with swords either.

You can make that case, if for some reason all the dark skins folks are portrayed as all gangster or bad guys. But I recalled the criminals in anime come in variety of background and shades of colors. Color in Anime/Manga is more of a shade of color than race/ethnic group/and or culture. Is Crocodile from One Piece Italian? or Egyptian/Middle Eastern? or freaking captain Hook?

Then we go to why everyone look so goddam Caucasian. I don't know. Indian caste system (prejudice) refer some one on lighter shade of skins but they still Indian and not European. Some country in Africa consider fat is a positive trait of wealth. Same with my old country, if you are fat and light skins meant you are not out on the sun and be a farmer but has a more prestige indoor job. How about hair color and eye color? Well, they use every shade of hair and eye color. And did you see the way Asian do their hair?? How is that Caucasian??

But that is still an aesthetic thing. Maybe some culture refer tallness, or non skinny, or etc. And then there are the individual level, a white woman who only sexually attract to black guys isn't racist. An Asian person who found brown curly hair pleasing, that isn't racist. It freaking aesthetic. People have different view on what they found as beautiful and it may or may not be influenced by their society. But that doesn't meant one race is superior than another or there is some sort of prejudice/discrimination against a particular race.

It isn't so clear cut like for these examples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCKxWQCs3f0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7xbJ11EyOg

Often people cry racists are usually from America because discrimination was not a so distance past. But to impose your lenses of reality on other culture is prejudice.

Last edited by movingstone at 6:16 am, May 5

TaoPaiPai
Post #597724
Member

7:10 am, May 5 2013
Posts: 952


hmmm
the racism in their comics spring from their rampant racism and xenophobia in their very culture and way of being
[not to mention the horrible way woman are looked upon in their society]

you should probably watch or read some more seinen-ish manga or pay more attention to what you actually look at before you start defending something

JUMP comedy manga like one piece or Naruto is probably not the best way to base your facts around


flowinmyboat
Post #597726
user avatar
Member

7:45 am, May 5 2013
Posts: 65


Who in the world is crying racism in anime/manga? I think everyone just assumes people in manga are all Japanese, regardless if they look white (unless otherwise stated). Japan isn't exactly the most diverse place in the world, so they have a lot of misconceptions about other cultures and races (the ever so common "a kiss is how Westerners say 'hi'" in shoujo or dark-skin gangster). It's not malicious, just misguided (given the benefit of the doubt).

And about everyone looking white: Big eyes are considered what's beautiful (this is an Anthropological/Sociological thing I can't explain) in Japan, for the most part, and along with white skin and sometimes blonde/brown hair given to characters, makes them look white. By the way, how can you tell race by hair-style? :\

EDIT: I watched that second video, and yes, that is racist. I don't even get how it's not. It's not about aesthetics. It's plays on all the negative stereotypes about blacks (monkeys, "Lazy Town", dumb, the "fat, black woman" etc). It personally disgusts me that you'd use that as an example of people "freaking" out (please correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying with this example). But this is a whooooole other topic and it could get ugly, I'll leave it. smile

Last edited by flowinmyboat at 7:53 am, May 5

________________
User Posted Image
movingstone
Post #597798 - Reply to (#597724) by TaoPaiPai
Member

8:36 pm, May 5 2013
Posts: 155


Quote from TaoPaiPai
hmmm
the racism in their comics spring from their rampant racism and xenophobia in their very culture and way of being


Isn't this consider as prejudice?

Quote
you should probably watch or read some more seinen-ish manga or pay more attention to what you actually loo ...


How do you know I am not reading seine-ish manga? I am. What is the women treating are we talking about here. Superwomen and big boobs bull crap from American comics.

TaoPaiPai, you need to give specific examples before spouting bullshit. It is ignorant to say why is a series like Ravages of Time don't focus too much on women because goddam the classic literature of Three Kingdoms do not have too many women characters. Why don't Game of Thrones have more blacks, because goddam, there isn't too many blacks people in the book series. Why are men raping women in samurai series? Because goddam, that is historical accuracy of the way of life back then.

Quote from flowinmyboat
Who in the world is crying racism in anime/manga? I think everyone just assumes people in manga are all Japanese, regardless if they look white (unless otherwise stated). Japan isn't exactly the most diverse place in the world, so they have a lot of misconceptions about other cultures and races (the ever so common "a kiss is how Westerners say 'hi'" in shoujo or dark-skin gangster). It's not malicious, just misguided (given the benefit of the doubt).


Hmm you don't read the comment sections much do you. In fact, you don't even read the post right above you from Taopaipai.

Quote
And about everyone looking white: Big eyes are considered what's beautiful (this is an Anthropological/Sociological thing I can't explain) in Japan, for the most part, and along with white skin and sometimes blonde/brown hair given to characters, makes them look white. By the way, how can you tell race by hair-style? :\


Hmm, why are you restating my goddam points.

Quote
EDIT: I watched that second video, and yes, that is racist. I don't even get how it's not. It's not about aesthetics. It's plays on all the negative stereotypes about blacks (monkeys, "Lazy Town", dumb, the "fat, black woman" etc). It personally disgusts me that you'd use that as an example of people "freaking" out (please correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying with this example). But this is a whooooole other topic and it could get ugly, I'll leave it.


English is my second language. At this point, I don't know whether I am fail to communicate or you are having trouble with reading comprehension because I clearly state that those videos are example of racists. While the shit people say about x, y, z is racist is manga is not actually racist.

========================================================= ===========

Yes, my tone is irritating. Why? Because flowinmyboat just pretty much mistake everything I said by restating exactly what I said and think that I am so stupid to not know the links I posted are example of racism. And then there Taopaipai just called me as ignorant without giving anything of substances or being any specific. Yes, I gave the example of Shonen. Why because I heard people calling about Bee is so racist. Luffy with afro, that is kinda racist. Up course, that's meant people don't actually know what "racist" meant by throwing out crap "racist" randomly like this.


========================================================= ===========

Taopaipai is making a faulty statement. It is like saying since chinese has their sinocentric way in the past. That is why chinese opera, or chinese kungfu, or whatever is racist because they are xenophobia in the past?? Does that even make sense?? If you don't know what sinocentric is look it up. I recalled I read comments at one point in Naruto, people calling Naruto is racist because there is no blacks characters ( this is before the introduction of Bee). So are they gonna go around and said why is Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is so damn racist, there ain't a single white person in the film.

========================================================= =========

I will examples of what I found as racist so that Tao Pai pai know what my standard is:
-If ALL or most colored characters (in a series) are portrayed as ignorant, murderous bullshit that isn't historically, socially, or even realistically correct. Example: Birth of a Nation.

Why do I said historically/socially correct? Because let's said, a film about slavery, the whites were portrayed as hateful, supremacists, ignorant, violent, inhumans. Infact, if all of the whites in that movie were like that even though not all whites people at the time are like that. I would give it a pass, because it was historically and socially correct. But if you prejudge a white person as inhuman/supremest nowadays just on the basic that they are white. That too is racist even though white supremacists are very much alive in some regions.

-If a person is denied of government jobs, rights, services, etc due to race, ethnic, religion, yes that is racism.

-etc and etc.

Last edited by movingstone at 9:04 pm, May 5

imercenary
Post #597801 - Reply to (#597798) by movingstone
Member

9:51 pm, May 5 2013
Posts: 120


I'm not sure what the OP is talking about. Racism is present in manga/anime just as racism is present in Hollywood movies.

Quote from movingstone
-If a person is denied of government jobs, rights, services, etc due to race, ethnic, religion, yes that is racism.


No its not, the government is within its rights to deny anyone jobs, rights or services by any criteria they damned well please. Contrary to popular belief, most of the world still legally upholds racism/sexism/discrimination at some level.

RIP131
Post #597802
user avatar
Member

10:19 pm, May 5 2013
Posts: 532


Quote
hmmm
the racism in their comics spring from their rampant racism and xenophobia in their very culture and way of being


Isn't this consider as prejudice?

considering that they upheld this law in 2005 not entirely
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/GB08Dh01.html
and one more thing:
http://www.hrdc.net/sahrdc/hrfeatures/HRF39.htm
Every culture have their own xenophobic and chauvinist prejudice that eventually is shown in one way or another in their media. To dismiss it entirely is wrong and hypocritical.

flowinmyboat
Post #597829
user avatar
Member

4:29 am, May 6 2013
Posts: 65


Okay, your original post didn't have any background to it (I got the vibe you're referring to Naruto specifically for some reason) and the grammar wasn't that great, so I must have misunderstood. My bad. There is no reason for you to be so angry; if I restated your points then we agree and have you have nothing to be angry about. You could've at least said, "That's what I said, but the point I'm making is..."

I personally have never seen anyone calling manga racist in the comment sections but I mainly read shoujo, josei and seinen so maybe that's why.

Lastly, you got pretty hostile with the people relying. I can understand if it's something you feel strongly about but that's no reason to tell someone they're "spouting bullshit" for saying their opinion... Also, you're grammar and word structure made it hard to understand your exact point (after re-reading it I kinda understood where I was repeating) so I can say I made a mistake replying to what I assumed you said. Next time (if there is), I'll ask clarifying questions first and read more closely. smile

________________
User Posted Image
Skinny Kazoo
Post #597831
user avatar
Member

4:49 am, May 6 2013
Posts: 146


Eyeshield 21 is an immediate flaw in your list that "anime/manga" is not racist...which in the first place is both a broad generalization and a hasty generalization.

You have given no evidence to support your claim, and I, for one, have seen racism in this stuff, so I have no idea what you are reading and seeing

With that being said I can understand and agree with your observations from the original post (except for this stuff about immunity from Western Imperialism, I could be grossly misunderstanding your statement, but the idea of Western civilization had major impacts on Japan historically)

Last edited by Skinny Kazoo at 4:57 am, May 6

________________
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.
-Oath of the Night's Watch, A Song of Ice and Fire
silencecomes
Post #597835
user avatar
Member

5:21 am, May 6 2013
Posts: 633


I honestly do not see the point of this thread. Discrimination is everywhere be it reality or fiction.
Unfortunately that's just the way humans are. Humans fear one another when one party different, a survival instinct actually.

It's ridiculous to get so worked up about something like this unless you're trying to do something about it.

I often find myself wondering "Why the fuck can't we all just get along?". You think racism is bad? Go take a look at sexism first. Actually no, don't. It's not going to stop, never has and it never will as long as humanity stays the way we are.

________________
Is this me in a nutshell?
Pretty much.
User Posted Image
switchgear
Post #597846
user avatar
Member

9:39 am, May 6 2013
Posts: 214


Racism is present in anime and manga. You are naive and delusional if you don't think it is. Yes, Bee can be seen as a stereotypical black character (not exactly racist, but ignorant if not for the lack of other characters from his village and childhood).

You are really going to use wonderwoman and big boobs as a negative for Western Culture, have you seen pretty much every shounen manga/anime that exists. When was the last time you saw a skinny woman with double G cups?

You need to calm down and accept that racism and prejudices exist in anime and manga. Japanese society is still rather racist (maybe not as much as in the 1930s) and that does in some series like when you give the black character giant abnormal lips or in Eye shield 21 where they spend chapter after chapter talking about the advantage Panther has because of his heritage. That is not to say that the mangaka are racists (some might be but I've never met then so I don' know that) but there characters sure as hell can be.

By making the argument about skin colour vs shading you are just trying to justify evidence against your position that you must have found. Not every black character has to be a gangster and not every American has to be a fat, rude, gun toting, violence pushing, jerkoff. Sometimes characters are like that to make a point, but then sometimes misconceptions get added in because of a lack of understanding of other cultures. If a white guy says all East Asians know kungfu that is racist and saying that all Westerners (white folk) kiss as a hello is also racist because it is a direct snub/slur against the "liberal" "loose" "weird" "against our social norms" West.

You need to calm down, take a chill pill and realize that Bee is a little racist (he talks in rap frecking sake)

________________
Banana Gecko!!
User Posted Image
User Posted Image[B]
Vudoodude
Post #597850 - Reply to (#597846) by switchgear
Member

12:14 pm, May 6 2013
Posts: 293


Quote from switchgear
Racism is present in anime and manga. You are naive and delusional if you don't think it is. Yes, Bee can be seen as a stereotypical black character (not exactly racist, but ignorant if not for the lack of other characters from his village and childhood).

You are really going to use wonderwoman an ...


Having a lack of black people aside from Bee isn't necessarily racist. Just because a particular race or skin color is absent in a series does not equal racism, the purposeful exclusion of a race and skin color would be racism. So if there were plans for Bee to be black, or other characters to be black and they decided to change them white, that'd be racism, but something we wouldn't know unless we see their rough draft for characters.

Similarly, drawing skinny women with big breasts is a bit sexist, but it's also a form of drawing what the author thinks is ideal. The roots to men's preference of big-breasted women is something that is deep rooted in evolution, and a manga is trying to sell copies by appealing to what we find attractive, so of course it is going to draw them with big breasts, or beautiful. Is it sexist, kind of, but no one complains that Ichigo is tall, muscular, or lacks acne/pimples.

I'd write more, but gotta go to work.

Raattis
Post #597868
Member

5:23 pm, May 6 2013
Posts: 2


As an aspiring game developer I've thought should I have characters of other ethnicities in my games. The thing is I have quite limited social circle which includes very few people with different ethnic backgrounds. If someone asked me why a character is of a certain skin color when I know no one with that particular complexion is "No reason." a good or bad answer?

Well, quite a few of my games don't even have human characters in them. I'm lucky that's possible.

As I understand it, having a character in any piece of work made to be of any particular race to purposely have them exhibit stereotypes associated with the race is being racist. Still there are lots of stereotypical "black" characters in American movies and TV. Makes me wonder how is anime and manga any different.

How do you create a manga character with a trait you know nothing of? MTV. Japanese know very little of the concept of racism, and aren't prepared to filter through the stream of shit that is American television.

imercenary
Post #597869 - Reply to (#597868) by Raattis
Member

5:46 pm, May 6 2013
Posts: 120


Quote from Raattis
As an aspiring game developer I've thought should I have characters of other ethnicities in my games. The thing is I have quite limited social circle which includes very few people with different ethnic backgrounds. If someone asked me why a character is of a certain skin color when I know no one wi ...


As a gameplay or art developer, that answer is fine. As a designer or writing developer, thats a horrible answer. Unless your game is packed with generic characters of various skin colors (or you have a "create a character" system), having one/a few characters with a distinct skin color makes them stand out. Therefore logic dictates that (A) the character(s) is important and/or (B) the creator is drawing attention to the character(s) for a reason. It doesn't matter if there no reason, the audience won't know that and will you call you on it.

And you seem to misunderstand. The Japanese know about the concept of racism, its just that they've literally been taught for CENTURIES that racism is perfectly acceptable.

Is this racist? Yes. Is it true? Unfortunately yes.

movingstone
Post #597889 - Reply to (#597829) by flowinmyboat
Member

9:12 pm, May 6 2013
Posts: 155


Quote from flowinmyboat
Lastly, you got pretty hostile with the people relying. I can understand if it's something you feel strongly about but that's no reason to tell someone they're "spouting bullshit" for saying their opinion... ...


hmm, I am an open minded individuals. If anyone of you could give me enough evidences to convince me some how the manga/anime culture is blatantly racist as some of the comments and youtube videos suggest. Then I may change my mind. But to call me ignorant like Taopaipai and you with your "It personally disgusts me that you'd use that as an example of people "freaking" out "

Quote from Skinny Kazoo
Eyeshield 21 is an immediate flaw in your list that "anime/manga" is not racist...which in the first place is both a broad generalization and a hasty generalization.


I am well aware of Eyeshield 21. Let's examine both cases that I think you are talking about. One about Americans portrayal. Americans are not particular well like in the world, and Americans are not a race. Each country has a stereotype of Americans. The white coach was portrayed as racist to the black panther. Is that true? Possibly that is the reflection of reality. Where I live (Illinois) blacks has a 57x higher rate of getting arrested for the same minor nonviolent drug charge than whites despite the fact that the rate of usage is about the same. So to portrayed the white coach as racist is a reflection of reality. Notice not all of the white teammates are racist.

Let's look at Panther. I actually, I gonna wait until you point out something specific to me before I reply more carefully about Panther.

Quote from Skinny Kazoo
You have given no evidence to support your claim, and I, for one, have seen racism in this stuff, so I have no idea what you are reading and seeing


List examples like I ask, and tell me how does that pertain to the definition of racism as I posted above. As it stand Japan and Thailand were the 2 country in Asia that was not being colonize by western influences. China is too big but Macau, Hongkong, and certain parts are greatly colonized.

Quote from silencecomes
I honestly do not see the point of this thread. Discrimination is everywhere be it reality or fiction.


The problem I had, my friend, is this American lenses of reality that imposed over other cultures.

Quote from switchgear
You are really going to use wonderwoman and big boobs as a negative for Western Culture, have you seen pretty much every shounen manga/anime that exists. When was the last time you saw a skinny woman with double G cups?


Context is key here. Why did I reply with that? I replied to Taopaipai's sexism within manga culture. In which, I found that manga and anime, although, do have sexism but it never so blatantly like American comics. Women in manga and anime is much more diverse.

Quote from switchgear
You need to calm down, take a chill pill and realize that Bee is a little racist (he talks in rap frecking sake)


Since most of your rant doesn't contain any points. I don't feel the need to reply to it. Are you kidding me with all your stuffs confused It is the reality of this realm that we live in. Why don't you do the racial components of what races constitute the NFL. I think it is more of a racism against Asians that Asians do not represented so well in the NFL, just as blacks are not well representative as quarterback. Why is it that not 33% whites, 33% blacks, and 33% asians?? I don't think praising the black athletes as racism. I feel it is racism if society set up so that the only way for colored folks to get ahead is only by the way of sport, that is racism.

"but then sometimes misconceptions get added in because of a lack of understanding of other cultures." This is racist why?? as pertain to the definition of racism. I need you to further clarify on this. Chill, bro. I got angry because people are "disgusted" and calling me "ignorant." I have yet see a reason why you should be angry.





Last edited by movingstone at 9:18 pm, May 6

wolfinthesheep
Post #597894
Member

9:43 pm, May 6 2013
Posts: 170


http://shamanking.wikia.com/wiki/Chocolove_McDonell

Typical example of racist representations of black people in anime and manga. Every other character has straight, angular faces and non-existent lips. The one African American character looks like a Blackface stereotype.

Pages (4) [ 1 2 3 4 ] Next You must be registered to post!

Back to Manga General  Back to Top

Search This Topic:
 
Manga Search
MANGA Fu
MEMBERS
TEAM-BU


footer