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24 year old male x 12 year old female

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mizunosaki
Post #578023
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3:27 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 182


Well, it doesn't really matter what we think, or even what they (MuYi and Miki) think. We'll see in 4 years.

Human hearts are really fickle and they change often, especially when they're young. So when I see something like this, I just think 'Okay, we'll see about that.' I mean, wouldn't it be pointless to debate this when two months later they just 'Oh whoops, yeah we broke up.'

So I kind of agree that as long as their relationship is not physical in any kind, it's still somewhat okay. Because that way even if they break up, it's no gain and no loss.

Honestly though, the whole romanticization of 'forbidden love' and the 'relationship everybody is against' is probably just going to make their relationship stronger, so they might make it.

As far as influence, honestly I don't think it matters how old you are. We are always under the influence and impression from the media anyway. I agree though it's because he is in a position of authority, he has more impression on her.

Bottom line, we'll see.

0oKat~0
Post #578024 - Reply to (#578021) by jasonred79
Member

3:29 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 132


Aw, crap. clicked 'Report' and typed my reply there by accident. >.< Sorry mods!

Anyway, yea. jasonred79, that book is set in the during WWII period (plus minus a couple of years). It is not factually accurate in the current context. -.- Don't use it as a basis to how all asians act.

And no, traditional asians will not be ok with such things. I would be surprised if they didn't threaten to disown their kids if they found such a thing happening.

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jasonred79
Post #578029 - Reply to (#578024) by 0oKat~0
Member

3:50 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 118


ookat, well, yeah... i guess those traditional asians would require the matchup to have been arranged by a marraigebroker or by the parents, rather than the couple do it themselves?
Heh.
In many asian countries, those two would already be married, or engaged or something similiar... assuming they had parental consent anyhow.

icarusbride
Post #578032
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Member

4:04 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 25


If anything, isn't announcing their relationship to the world actually HELPING to keep them accountable? If this guy was really a predator out to manipulate a child into a sexual relationship, he would do so in secret, not announce it to the entire world and possibly ruin both their careers...

0oKat~0
Post #578035 - Reply to (#578029) by jasonred79
Member

4:13 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 132


Yup, and it's usually by the parents. But 12 years old is really pushing it. And nowadays, most of them would leave their child to decide their future partner for themselves, unless of course, they are rich, or they are still unwedded at a certain age (around their late twenties).

Nope. Marriage that young is still illegal, regardless of whether there's parental consent. As for engagement... Maybe? Unofficially and between the two families involved. Sexual relations is still illegal though.

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GuttedGnome
Post #578040
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5:03 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 146


I see some misinformation in some posts.
Pedophilia: (sexual) attraction to prepubescent children. People go on and on about it being a mental disorder and wrong, but then so is homosexuality and even heterosexuality. The fact is, most men have higher sexual attraction toward younger females than those older (I said most NOT all) but people deny it because they would be seen as disgusting and wrong when they in fact can't help it. Also females have a higher attraction to older males in most cases. Of course, these are standards.
You just can't help being attracted to what you're attracted to.
I in no way support sexual acts with children or between children, so don't get me wrong with this one.

'Age of consent' doesn't mean from when you can date or have a relationship with another person. It means to consent for sexual acts. Here in Sweden age of consent is 15 unless the adult is in a 'position of trust' which raises it to 18. 'position of trust' means legal guardian, teacher etc etc... Incest is still illegal no matter the age though.
Also age of consent in China is 14 unless it's Hong Kong or Macau which both have 16.
_______________

What is my opinion? I just don't care as long as they don't have a sexual relationship. Then again, I don't care even if they do for I do not know them. I also don't care if it is a publicity stunt.
The thing is, there is nothing wrong (legally and morally) with dating someone that is underage. That include 12 year olds. She is after all entering puberty. It is pretty much the norm to have some interest in such things at that age even if some people deny it.

Kaitentsuki
Post #578041 - Reply to (#578040) by GuttedGnome
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5:06 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 853


Damm, the most sensible post i have read today. With facts as a bonus.

fr33noob
Post #578045
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0n3 Winged
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6:00 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 603


laugh W0t, lets just say the age gap between a 30-20 year old makes little differences it terms of mental capacity. 20 vs 10....yeah, that makes a difference in terms of physical and mental capacity.

There are moral lines there for a reason. Someone didn't just daydream these lines one afternoon for no reason. People who don't realize the development stages of human beings fail to see the problem here...Is he a parental figure to her and if not, what kind of development problems do they "both" have?

Its ridiculous and i will ridicule them for it.

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I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
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LilyNanami
Post #578047
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~(-.-~) (~-.-)~
Member

6:17 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 295


I sincerely couldn't care less about their "relationship". Though I'd read it if it was a manga... biggrin

-just like Adarushan no Hanayome- LOL

Apart from that, I've never heard of them till now, I just watched some videos of Miki and she has a pretty good english accent and a great voice!

Actually it's just like lawken martinez said in a YouTube comment:
"Age is JUST a number smile and oh i forgot.. Jail is JUST a room too."

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKSjg_B5jHQ&feature= related)

Last edited by LilyNanami at 6:34 pm, Nov 23

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jasonred79
Post #578050
Member

6:48 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 118


BEHOLD!!! I summon... BLUE EYES WHITE!!!

oh, sorry, wrong topic.

Erm.

BEHOLD!!! I SUMMON... GOOGLE + WIKIPEDIA!!! Go, my gookipedia!

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage

Urgh. 74.5% of nigerian girls between 20-24 were married below 18... hmm. Scarily high...

...

Anyhow,

I would say that the more "developped" or "westernized" countries are more ... ahem. "patient" in regards to when relationships are allowed...

My "memoirs of a geisha" thing is not about "accuracy" or "historical accuracy"... it is about "reception".
Basically, while I was watching it, I was thinking "so... the main romance in this film is between this girl who fell in love as a child and this VIP who fell in love with her? ... does NO ONE ELSE watching this see anything wrong with thisconfused"
And you know what? The answer is = "because it was artistically and tastefully represented, everyone just swallowed it hook line and sinker and in fact were cheering them on"

The sad fact is: humans are very very easily influenced by "charisma" and "fame" and "sparkly" stuff.

If this had been some 24 year old male school teacher and a 12 year old random normal girl he had taught from when she was 8, he might end up in jail. And the fact they're asian DOES make a difference... if it was UK, he'd probably be in big trouble. If they were in Nigeria or India, people would mostly ignore the whole thing.

hazai
Post #578059 - Reply to (#578040) by GuttedGnome
Member

10:10 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 23


Quote from GuttedGnome
Pedophilia: (sexual) attraction to prepubescent children. People go on and on about it being a mental disorder and wrong, but then so is homosexuality and even heterosexuality


Seriously i don't know how to respond to this. Are you seriously comparing pedophilia to homosexuality? This is the exact same bullshit that anti-gay people have, when in fact one concerns consenting people and the other is plain abuse.

Quote from GuttedGnome
The fact is, most men have higher sexual attraction toward younger females than those older (I said most NOT all) but people deny it because they would be seen as disgusting and wrong when they in fact can't help it.


So your saying most men or attracted to prepubescent child? I will agree people are attracted to youth, but they hit after puberty and are developed. Just because somebody can't help being attracted to a child doesn't mean they should act on it.

Quote from GuttedGnome
Here in Sweden age of consent is 15 unless the adult is in a 'position of trust' which raises it to 18.


He is in a position of trust since he is her music coach since she was 8.

Quote from GuttedGnome
She is after all entering puberty. It is pretty much the norm to have some interest in such things at that age even if some people deny it.


Of course she would have interest, she is at that age where these feelings are coming out. But the same can not be said about him. He has a position of trust and authority in her life and it is borderline criminal. If he truly wants to pursue a relationship he should stay away from the child, let her develop into her own person and revisit if they feel the same way.

HikaruYami
Post #578064
Member

10:45 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 105


I agree with everything hazai said.

I'll add some more, though.

Anyone that thinks this is acceptable because people did it in the past is an _imbecile_ that knows _nothing_ of developmental psychology. Yes, it's normal for her to be attracted to her teacher, there's well-known psychological evidence for that from teaching/parental figures that are not biologically related. But that's exactly _why_ the guy in this situation can't behave this way. It's possible, and even likely, that he's an idiot that really believes they have both just found True, Pure Love in each other, but other people that know these psychological factors are otherwise responsible for teaching these two what's up in the girl's developing mind. If he refuses to accept it after learning, that's the point at which he becomes a disgusting pedophile that wants to take advantage of her--I don't believe he's there yet.

As for the past, uhm, those were _arranged marriages_, because back then, and even in several developing countries still, women were property that were just meant to be pretty things on men's pinkies at all times. People didn't normally fall any more deeply in love at that age than teenagers do now--if you ever actually *read* Romeo and Juliet (juliet was, like, 14), you'll see that the progression of romanticism makes absolutely no sense at all. It was normal for women to get married at 14 because back then, _every_ marriage was a business or political marriage.

Rukia168
Post #578066
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Member

10:59 pm, Nov 23 2012
Posts: 91


Well, age is just a number smile

GuttedGnome
Post #578078 - Reply to (#578059) by hazai
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1:00 am, Nov 24 2012
Posts: 146


Quote from hazai
Seriously i don't know how to respond to this. Are you seriously comparing pedophilia to homosexuality? This is the exact same bullshit that anti-gay people have, when in fact one concerns consenting people and the other is plain abuse.

Did you not read? I wrote homosexuality and heterosexuality.
By the way Pedophilia is attraction (sexual AND non-sexual) to prepubescent children. That is all. Just as homosexuals are attracted to same sex and heterosexuals to opposite sex. Just because someone is attracted to prepubescent children does not mean they're engaging in sexual acts with them. It's like saying aids/hiv is a homosexual only decease and all heterosexual men rape women on sight. The world isn't black and white like you seem to think. It's gray, oh so very gray, but a colourful gray that is way to beautiful to watch.
Anyway, the words you seem to mix up are pedophilia and child rapist. Those are extremely different. Child rapists are rapists that rape children. Scum of the earth. Pedophiles does not need to be child rapists just because they're attracted to prepubescent children. There are also no statistics that pedophiles are raping more children than anyone else. If you need to hate then hate heterosexuals. And all rapists have a fundamental psychological issue no matter how they are or what they rape.

Quote from hazai
So your saying most men or attracted to prepubescent child? I will agree people are attracted to youth, but they hit after puberty and are developed. Just because somebody can't help being attracted to a child doesn't mean they should act on it.

I'm saying that most men are attracted to younger females. never said prepubescent children. But still, a lot more are attracted to prepubescent children than you think there is. Most of them hide it, are in denial or even unaware of it. What shall we do about these people? Hunt them down, reprogram them to upstanding citizens that marry someone their own age, get two children (one boy and one girl) and live a standard life without anything different in it? Sure why not. Then we do that to everyone else that are different because they can do bad things unless they behave like we want them to right?

Quote from hazai
He is in a position of trust since he is her music coach since she was 8.

And therefor he cannot engage in a sexual act with her until she's 18 instead of 15 according to Swedish law. But he's in China not in Sweden and I don't know that much about Chinese laws. And if he is engaging in a sexual act with her he's breaking far worse laws and may get quite a severe punishment.

Quote from hazai
Of course she would have interest, she is at that age where these feelings are coming out. But the same can not be said about him. He has a position of trust and authority in her life and it is borderline criminal.

True, it is borderline criminal but it isn't criminal. It'd be criminal if he had some sort of sexual relationship with her. But there is no proof of it. Maybe it's platonic to the point that they're more like friends? Maybe it isn't? I sure don't know neither do you. Or are you stalking them? I doubt it but it is better to ask.

Quote from hazai
If he truly wants to pursue a relationship he should stay away from the child, let her develop into her own person and revisit if they feel the same way.

Also true, but who are we to say that their feelings are false? Who are we to deny their feelings? If they are dating then why should anyone judge them except for a judge in a courtroom after accusations of rape or molestation of a minor?

Fact is, dating a 12 year old at the age of 24 is just as immoral and illegal as two men or two women dating. Well, some countries have made homosexual relationships illegal but I don't count them. There are no laws that I know of against dating undeveloped brats.
If she regret starting to date then fine. Let her learn about what and what isn't love or whatever from experience a bit as long as it isn't sexual. Overparenting is one of the worst thing you can do to a child. Give the child some freedom to date at that age, let them learn about the world. You can't just throw them out in the real world when they turn 18. If we do we get shut-ins taking our homes and mental patients living on the streets.
But I can agree that dating an adult person may become a problem because there are people out there trying to take advantage of little girls. But that goes for all of us. Just because female A is a friendly and great girlfriend in front of male B doesn't mean she's not cheating with male C, D, E, F, G, H etc etc... and then kill male A because he wanted to break up with her when he found out.
And to deny their relationship and her feelings because she's still developing psychologically is just wrong. She is indeed still developing psychologically but that doesn't mean she's not allowed to experience real life and real life feelings. Even if the guy is 12 years older than her.

I hope I cleared my self up. Just because you were born with a certain attraction it doesn't mean you're disgusting, right? If so then as a heterosexual 23 year old that isn't attracted to anyone under 19 (approximately, for it is around that age they turn less annoying) am now disgusting and should be punished for being attracted to something.

So everyone, chill out, drink some of your favorite drink and read something entertaining like a manga.

hazai
Post #578083 - Reply to (#578078) by GuttedGnome
Member

2:07 am, Nov 24 2012
Posts: 23


Quote from GuttedGnome
Just because someone is attracted to prepubescent children does not mean they're engaging in sexual acts with them. It's like saying aids/hiv is a homosexual only decease and all heterosexual men rape women on sight. The world isn't black and white like you seem to think. It's gray, oh so very gray, but a colorful gray that is way to beautiful to watch.


First off I don't think pedophilia means that they are having sex with children. However in this case he is actively pursuing this relationship, while not sexual is emotional and it is this active pursuit which makes it wrong. He is in a position of power and has the opportunity to escalate this should he choose to wield that power. Imagine if this story was not public, and they were not celebrities, without the burden of prosecution nor public perception what do you think would have happened. It is a slippery slope, if you say this is ok, whats to stop other people from claiming that same thing, including those whom would rape child.

Quote from GuttedGnome
There are also no statistics that pedophiles are raping more children than anyone else.

That statement is retarded because anybody that rapes children would be a pedophilia already. Anybody going around raping children would already be a pedophilia because why else would they do it if they weren't sexual attracted to them.

Quote from GuttedGnome
Most of them hide it, are in denial or even unaware of it. What shall we do about these people? Hunt them down, reprogram them to upstanding citizens that marry someone their own age, get two children (one boy and one girl) and live a standard life without anything different in it? Sure why not. Then we do that to everyone else that are different because they can do bad things unless they behave like we want them to right?


The key underlying fact that you cannot seem to grasp is that child CANNOT consent under the law. Making exceptions undermines the law. Just because this guy might try anything doesn't mean somebody else might not. It creates a precedent that child molesters can take advantage of.

Quote from GuttedGnome
Fact is, dating a 12 year old at the age of 24 is just as immoral and illegal as two men or two women dating.


Key word here is consent consent consent.

One last point I want to make clear is i am probably not going to convince anybody posting this on a manga forum where forbidden love is a key staple for a whole genre of manga.
However people need to understand the difference between real life and fiction. Fiction is created to make people root for the forbidden relationships. Fact of the matter is real life forbidden relationships are rarely made out to be like the novels.

Some facts from the US dept of HHS 1 in 5 girls and 1 in 20 boys is a victim of child sexual abuse;
Self-report studies show that 20% of adult females and 5-10% of adult males recall a childhood sexual assault or sexual abuse incident;
During a one-year period in the U.S., 16% of youth ages 14 to 17 had been sexually victimized;
Over the course of their lifetime, 28% of U.S. youth ages 14 to 17 had been sexually victimized;
Children are most vulnerable to CSA between the ages of 7 and 13.

These are facts from the US and these statistics are even lower if Asia where abuse is severely under reported. Of course the world is not black and white but you can't do making exceptions because they happen to be famous. Child abuse is real and if the man had happened to be an obese hikkimori otaku, NOBODY would be arguing in his favor.

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