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new genre recommendation

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Do you want to filter "Incest" ?
YES !!
NO
Votes: 154

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12:44 pm, Jul 25 2007
Posts: 1191


I think it's a good idea ^o^ Cuz sometimes I'll read something and be surprised that it's incest, not that I really mind, but I think I'd prefer to know beforehand and sometimes it's not stated in the summary that it's incest.

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Post #29898
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1:38 pm, Jul 25 2007
Posts: 7784


You're all so evil. ;_;

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Crazy Cat Lady
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2:32 pm, Jul 25 2007
Posts: 1850


It all depends on what exactly would be filtered out. As others have pointed out, would Ouran High School Host Club be filtered? It really doesn't have incest in it (well, the anime at least makes it clear that the "twincest" is all for show & not for real). How about Kodocha? Sana is the product of niece/uncle incest, but that's only one small (though important) part of the story, would that be filtered out too?

I have zero interest in incest as such, but filtering out anything that could possibly be labeled as "contains incest" is going to eliminate a lot of manga where incest is NOT the main story.

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2:51 pm, Jul 25 2007
Posts: 221


How would you define "incest," though? I mean, it seems obvious enough, but what if someone was with their third cousin or something? Would that still be considered incest, or would their relation be too far off to warrant the title? (XD Then again, I don't think that anyone'll find any manga with such a plot... )

I can't really see this being all that possible unless the label of "incest" went into a somewhat detailed description about the relations of the two (sister-brother, cousin-cousin, etc) and how incestuous (would that be the right word to use?) it is (crush, dating, sex, etc).

Post #32068
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3:19 pm, Aug 3 2007
Posts: 173


I'd say no to adding incest. The reason:
Incest is a part of Hentai.
A manga can be a Hentai without being an Incest, but the reversed wouldn't.

Heh, i'd say we need to add a Harem genre, but then all harems are usually
Romance/Comedy/<someone more>

I hate to contradict myself bigrazz

Post #32087
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4:31 pm, Aug 3 2007
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Incest is not a part of hentai.
There is a difference between hentai and mature and such so
it would depend on what the context is.
It could be just a romance between blood related people not
heaty *******.

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6:11 pm, Aug 11 2007
Posts: 84


I would love to see this genre. Several times I have found a manga, and it had NOTHING about incest in it, only to find that BAM! There is a brother and sister after each other.

Thats not what I want to see, not everyone who reads manga wants to see Hentai and incest. As for description, I agree with "Relationship with people who are relatives."
I don't care if they are half brothers and sister, or step.. they are freaking brother and sister. Its disgusting. >_< If I can filter out hentai, adult, and so forth.. incest is the next step.
So, I vote yes. As for the people who say No.. why? Are you that worried you might have to check one more whole box when you do searchs?

Post #34329
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7:02 pm, Aug 11 2007
Posts: 106


Step sibs isn't incest. They're usually not blood related at all. You can get the feeling of incest from it but it isn't incest.

Post #34367 - Reply to (#34287) by Artimidorus
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8:08 pm, Aug 11 2007
Posts: 185


Quote from Artimidorus
As for the people who say No.. why?

Simply, because "incest" is not a genre:
Quote from "Dictionary.com"
Genre: 1. a class or category of artistic endeavor having a particular form, content, technique, or the like

but a kind of human close relationship which is forbidden in most modern societies. If we begin to label any activity or attitude that we don't like as "genre" we'll soon have genres called "adultery", "concubinage", "polygamy", "slavery", etc. just because some people consider those activities "disgusting"...

Quote from Artimidorus
I don't care if they are half brothers and sister, or step.. they are freaking brother and sister. Its disgusting. >_< If I can filter out hentai, adult, and so forth.. incest is the next step.

Are you aware that the term incest does not limit itself to brothers and sisters?:
Quote from "Dictionary.com"
Incest: 1. sexual intercourse between closely related persons.
2. the crime of sexual intercourse, cohabitation, or marriage between persons within the degrees of consanguinity or affinity wherein marriage is legally forbidden.

And here is where the major problem lies: every person has a personal definition about what incest is according to his/her own beliefs, customs and culture. For example, for me a romantic relationship between step-siblings doesn't count as incest at all. But (as we have seen in the thread Incest in manga ) there are a lot of people who don't agree with me since since they have a different criteria, which is perfectly normal when we're trying to define highly subjective terms like these.
And the most controversial thing of all is that the Japanese doesn't consider intermarriage between cousins as incest, but most of the Western world does. If the Administrators decide to implement this "new genre", this would cause a lot of heated debate...(heck, even Love Hina would be considered an incestuous series by some people.)

Quote from Artimidorus
Several times I have found a manga, and it had NOTHING about incest in it, only to find that BAM! There is a brother and sister after each other.

And this is another reason of why I don't agree with this: In some series, it is thought that two characters are blood-related, but later we learn that that isn't the case (or the opposite, like the case that you mentioned as example) and that is a plot device, and how could we put such an important thing in a manga's summary? What I'm trying to say is that in a lot of series, in order to correctly label them as "incest" we'll have to read all the manga and in the worst of the scenarios, this will imply reveal their final.

Quote from Artimidorus
As for the people who say No.. why? Are you that worried you might have to check one more whole box when you do searchs?

And I ask you: Why do you want to "invent" a genre, that will bring great controversy, debate, dispute, polemic, and disagreement when you can just read the series' description to determinate if the manga that you pretend to read contains "things that are disgusting" to you? Why?

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11:20 pm, Aug 11 2007
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Neofire.. as my post says, Relations between relatives.
I was using the brother sister thing as an example. It should have been obvious from the next few lines in my post.

As for Love Hina, I agree. It was one of the worst things added to the series. Luckily, they straightened it out, and set the rules of "I love this person, you are my SISTER."

As for your definition of genre, I really don't think that matters. Smut would not be a genre, adult would not be either.
Now, I don't know why you really have such fire about this issue, hopefully its up to the votes if we get a category that is much needed; (which, btw are what genres basically are, especially in this site. Categories to search by, and define the series)

Now, Neo, to make you aware, I don't care if its tolerated in Japan. Are you aware that they have procedures about that? For example, you couldn't marry your mothers sisters daughter? Are you aware that it has to have a certain level of separation?

Now, as for you saying to read the series in order to find out if they are blood related: I don't care. You cannot look upon someone in your family; or that you consider family, as a possible mate. That is seriously sick.
Its not a "western" belief, nor just a christian belief; its a moral belief. If I consider someone family, in my mind, they are instantly removed from potential mate status. We aren't cats/dogs after all.

Sorry for any disjointedness that appears in this post, Its 2:22am, and I am reading about 12 different sites, watching a few shows, and also reading a book.... I don't do well trying to pay attention to something that only updates when people surf back to the something. ^_^

Btw, you said it yourself why incest is a genre.
"Genre: 1. a class or category of artistic endeavor having a particular form, content, technique, or the like"

Content. Various parts of the story count for content in that story. Same as "Martial Arts" is.

Last edited by Artimidorus at 11:27 pm, Aug 11 2007

Post #34467
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5:43 am, Aug 12 2007
Posts: 95


The relational aspect of incest is a term which has no universal definition. Your definition of "relatives" will not apply to everyone.

As extreme examples: What would you say to a person whose consanguinity consists of only the male line (patrilineal)? How would you explain your moral belief to a culture that practices lineage endogamy?

"Martial arts", "smut" and the other examples that you've given do not have as much ambiguity to them as "incest" does.

Quote from NeoFireHawk
Every person has a personal definition about what incest is according to his/her own beliefs, customs and culture. For example, for me a romantic relationship between step-siblings doesn't count as incest at all.

Quote from Artimidorus
You cannot look upon someone in your family; or that you consider family, as a possible mate. That is seriously sick.

To be technical and anal, your disagreement with NeoFireHawk actually proves Neo's point concerning incest's vague definition. You disagree with him, he's right. You agree with him, he's right. Life's a b----- huh? ^_^

Quote from Artimidorus
Now, as for you saying to read the series in order to find out if they are blood related: I don't care.

He is not asking you to read a manga to find out whether or not there is incest in the story. He states that the subject of incest is sometimes used as a plot device, and to label a manga as such would be spoiling it. You might not mind such a thing, but plenty of other people do.

A satirical look at such an occurance.


Quote from NeoFireHawk
a kind of human close relationship which is forbidden in most modern societies. If we begin to label any activity or attitude that we don't like as "genre" we'll soon have genres called "adultery", "concubinage", "polygamy", "slavery", etc. just because some people consider those activities "disgusting"...

I concur. If I'm going to have my incest I better well have my concubines (lots and lots of them), adulterous relationships, polygamy, slaves, S&M, bondage, etc., etc.

Instead of "Incest" for a category, I vote for "The Actual Or Use Of Feelings Of A Romantic Nature For Or The Copulation With A Relative Defined By Your Society Within The Bounds Of Your Cultural Practices And Laws".

Aye? Nay?

...that wouldn't work either would it? none

Quote from Artimidorus
Btw, you said it yourself why incest is a genre.
"Genre: 1. a class or category of artistic endeavor having a particular form, content, technique, or the like"

Quote from Artimidorus
As for your definition of genre, I really don't think that matters.


confused Come again?

Post #34684
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2:36 am, Aug 13 2007
Posts: 106


Since someone mentions that incest is used as a plot device.
Spoiler (highlight to view)
Would Marmalade Boy be labeled as incest or not? At first it seems they are totally and absolutely not related but are only step sibs (which some consider incest). Then the boy thinks that they might be half sibs (incest). In the end they discover they're not sibs at all. (not incest but still that step sibs incest thing). So, there are like three stages to their relationship.

So, to people who consider step sibs dating to be incest this would be a definite incest manga. (but as i stated earlier, if you're not blood related it's not incest, no matter how sickening it seems to some people)

But to people who actually say that incest is for people that are related then Marmalade boy would be an iffy manga.
For the people who have only read the first part then Marmalade Boy isn't an incest manga and having that incest label on it would spoil the story for them.
For people who have read only the first and second stages then of course Marmalade Boy is an incest manga. "Who's the stupidhead that said it wasn't?"
For people who have read the whole manga then it's definitely not an incest manga and once again "Who's the stupidhead that said it was?"

So, how would controversial manga be labeled? Or would they just keep changing labels when someone with a different opinion sees that series page?

Post #34686
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2:45 am, Aug 13 2007
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Argh, all these catholic no fun nuns. >.<

Post #53986
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8:02 am, Sep 15 2007
Posts: 1650


How about saying that they just have to be after each other. If they have sex, it'll also be labeled a hentai or smut.

I'm for this b/c people do get offended by it.

Post #53992
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8:36 am, Sep 15 2007
Posts: 1325


Filter.
If there are people who think incest is wrong/disgusting or the exact opposite, fun/interesting, why not allow them to have the chance to choose whatever they like?After all, it's an information site. For some of people who visit MU, this type of information is probably important.

And how to handle incest or not incest problem...I would say to label it as incest even if it's about a relationship between step siblings, cause the whole situation in which they are seems like an incest for most of the other characters. People may want to/don't want to read something with incest or just about it (then it doesn't even matter if it really is an incest or not)
I can't explain it right, don't bite me.

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