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Category Clarification (read the first post)

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oriana3k
Post #502919 - Reply to (#502872) by AnjuxKuran
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3:56 am, Oct 23 2011
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Quote from AnjuxKuran
what is a Manfra?


Did some digging, and Manfra apparently refers to manga-styled French comics.

kitty1826x
Post #626907
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What is Cohabitation?

(I guess I really want to know what's the difference between Cohabitation, and Live-in Lover ... wouldn't they pretty much be the same thing? )

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Badkarma
Post #626913 - Reply to (#626907) by kitty1826x
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Quote from Kitty18dnsz
(I guess I really want to know what's the difference between Cohabitation, and Live-in Lover ... wouldn't they pretty much be the same thing? )



Wouldn't cohabitation mean that they're roommates, but not in a relationship?

kitty1826x
Post #626914 - Reply to (#626913) by Badkarma
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Well if you look at the definition

cohabitation n
1. (Sociology) the state or condition of living together as husband and wife without being married
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (of political parties) the state or condition of cooperating for specific purposes without forming a coalition.

This is where my confusion stems from.

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Badkarma
Post #626922
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Huh.

You know, I never knew that. I never really knew that cohabitation had that kind of meaning. I simply followed basic English principles and assumed it meant what it meant. Co-habitation: two people who share a house or room; IE: a fancy way of saying 'roommates'.

Hmmm...

Now I can see where your confusion lies, but thankfully with my perspective of the term, I'm able to give you an answer. A quick glance at the first page of 'cohabitation' is rather telling, as I see things like Aki-Sora next to Ai Yori Aoshi.

Ok...?

Given this new meaning of cohabitation, Ai Yori Aoshi I somewhat agree with since they were pretty much committed to each other. They didn't exactly live as husband and wife, but that was more due to the circumstance, otherwise they would've. But Aki-Sora? That little puke stain of a ladyboy Sora didn't have anyone he thought of as a wife living with him! Aki!? Gimme a break...

Looking further, I see Blood Alone, and to my knowledge, they didn't have the type of relationship on the level as husband and wife.

So why are all these manga tagged with cohabitation? The answer is pretty obvious: nobody knows the true definition. Like me, I'm gonna guess that the vast majority of people used their understanding of the English language to define it, rather than knowing it had a deeper implication.

That's my guess, anyway.

In any case, to answer your question, the contrast between cohabitation and live-in lover is also kinda simple for me. From my understanding, you're married, yes? If cohabitation is on the same emotional commitment level as marriage, then could you ever refer to your husband with a term like "live-in lover" without being ironic?

I didn't think so.

I'd put a "live-in lover" tag on something like Absolute Boyfriend or Video Girl Ai, where the protagonists are definitely living with their lovers, but there's no real commitment. Something like Ai Yori Aoshi, though, I'd find a "live-in lovers" tag a little off.

Having said all that, the tag should probably be removed anyway, since no one seems to know what it actually means. I'm seeing all kinds of manga that have no business being tagged with it, and I can't imagine the collective manga updaters on the internet suddenly being enlightened after this conversation.


That's what I think, anyway. What do you think?


Last edited by Badkarma at 10:31 pm, Jan 3

kitty1826x
Post #626926 - Reply to (#626922) by Badkarma
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I think I like the way you write biggrin

Back on topic.

If you look at cohabit's definition
1. To live together in a sexual relationship, especially when not legally married.
2. To coexist, as animals of different species.

I could see why the tag cohabitation can still stay as a tag.

Yes I'm married,(Are you stalking me? o.o . Just kidding. Although if you were I wouldn't mind ...) and I would still call him a lover, but that's me.


Yes, it did cross my mind it could mean something like roommates, or all the character live in the same community (or apartment). Seeing it from that point of view it makes sense.
I guess I was wanted clarification because I saw the tag cohabitation where it should be live-in lover, and wondered if meant two or more characters living together (whether romantically or not). Thus any manga with live-in lover would have to have a cohabitation tag as well.
Or was it just for non-romantic situations (although technically not following the definition) like you thought.

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Badkarma
Post #627030 - Reply to (#626926) by kitty1826x
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Sure. As I said, I could see someone referring to their husband or wife as a 'lover' in casual conversation, but I'm speaking in terms of formality. Like, if you were to introduce me to your husband, you wouldn't introduce him as your live-in lover or lover, I hope. That'd be weird, and a little confusing for me. Different people put different values on certain words, and I find 'lover' is too vague for formality. It'd make me think he's your boyfriend, or your sex friend... or you're both swingers... or something. I DEFINITELY wouldn't conclude that you were married; of that, I'm certain.

Perfectly acceptable after a formal introduction; totally weird as a formal introduction.

Which begs the question: how would someone in a cohabiting relationship that have no intention of getting married address their significant other in a formal introduction? Spouse? Husband or wife, even though they're not married? Partner? Hmm...

...

Oh, I'm losing focus.

Back to the point, no. I might have minced my words because that's not how I previously saw the tag, and for completely non-romantic situations, I'd use 'roommates' or 'housemates'. In the event that these roommates saw each other in a different light and became lovers, then I'd put a 'friends to lovers' tag and keep the 'roommates' tag, because that's how they were initially introduced.

Using my assumed false knowledge, I would've still distinguished the tags differently. With a 'roommates' tag, I'd assume it to mean that the living arrangement was something the two people agreed on, yet have no romantic relationship, whereas a 'cohabitation' tag was something like the beginning of Kimi no Iru Machi. More precisely, I thought of the cohabitation tag as something like "living with your love interest". "Live-in lover" would naturally mean what it means.

The tags seem to reflect that too, with the most damning piece of evidence I was able to find being this: Cohabiting Lover. It immediately caught my eye when browsing through the tag, you know, since the title's so redundant. Good thing it did, because its description is almost exactly what I'm trying to explain.


And of course I'm not stalking you, but please be aware that when you write things on the internet, people will read it. Even if you've never provoked a response from me till now, yeah, I'm creepily lurking in the background reading your posts whilst feverishly ringing my hands and giggling madly at all the time I'm wasting.

It's a sad state of affairs, I'm afraid.

kitty1826x
Post #627031 - Reply to (#627030) by Badkarma
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This is making me think you were right with "no need to have a cohabitation tag" (Paraphrasing)

Seeing as there is a Roommates, Apartment Life, and Live-in Lover tags having a cohabitation tag doesn't make sense anymore ....
- Also in the case of Kimi no Iru Machi I would use both the Live-in lover, and Roommates tag.
I always took "living with your love interest" as Live-in lover (since they do end up being lovers later).

I think it may be time to make a post in the Categories(Tags) Bug Thread if no one else can come up with a different use of the Cohabitation tag.
(I'll wait a bit before making a post)


Thanks for clarifying this tag for me.

Sidenotes:
- Ha yes I would formally introduce my husband as my husband. Back when we were together (fully committed), but not married yet I called him my husband (just because it was easier that way then to explain oh we've been together # years, and plan to get married one day and so on).
- Anything I post on the internet I'm okay with anyone knowing. If I don't want someone to know something I won't post it. (Doesn't everyone think like this? ... wait no, not everyone, but thank you for trying to look out for me) I do find it funny when people put two and two together from different posts, but even then having the info to put two and two together is only possible because I remember what I posted before and am okay with you putting the pieces together. (Bleh another run on sentence. I hope it made sense).

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lynira
Post #627034
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4:29 am, Jan 4 2014
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Quote from Kitty18dnsz
What is Cohabitation?

(I guess I really want to know what's the difference between Cohabitation, and Live-in Lover ... wouldn't they pretty much be the same thing? )

I've always thought it was like this:

-Cohabitation indicates an unmarried romantic couple who are intentionally living together for romantic purposes.
-Live-in Lover indicates people who have some romantic connection (could be love interests or a couple), but the living arrangement is not for romantic purposes (in other words, it's coincidental or unintentional that they live together).
-Roommates and Housemates indicates people living in the same room/apartment/house but with no romantic connections or purposes.

Last edited by lynira at 2:40 am, Jan 9

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kitty1826x
Post #627040 - Reply to (#627034) by lynira
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...
Okay if Cohabitation was (is?) suppose to be for romantic couples who are intentionally living together. (Sorry I was unclear if you were telling me that's how it is used, or how you thought it was used)

Wouldn't it be easier to just use Live-in lover? (I understand you said it's more for living arrangements for non romantic purposes, but I always thought it was as simple as a couple living together out of wedlock. Whether romantically or not. Makes better sense to me that way, On that note it should would make sense to use it for married couples seeing as they would still be considered lovers, and living together ...).

If Cohabitation was suppose to be for non romantic couples wouldn't it be easier to just use Roommates or Housemates?


Live in vb (intr, adverb)
1. (of an employee, as in a hospital or hotel) to dwell at one's place of employment
adj
2. living in the place at which one works: a live-in maid.
3. living with someone else in that person's home: a live-in lover.

When trying to look up synonyms live-in lover everything is related to "significant other" (meaning any couple in a romantic situation, living together would be a live in lover)
When trying to google the definition of live-in lover which ended up talking about cohabitation.


confused I feel like I'm more confused now as to what is Cohabitation, and why would that be used instead of Live-in Lover, or Roommates/Housemates.
(Which I'm thinking this tag is used in both ways by users ... making this a messy tag).

Last edited by Kitty18dnsz at 5:17 am, Jan 4

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Badkarma
Post #627045
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5:59 am, Jan 4 2014
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There's not much to be confused about; it's exactly as we've just discussed. In the absence of a proper textbook definition or a provided definition, everybody has their own view on what these terms actually mean, and misinformation breeds more misinformation. For example, the smut genre's description reads:

Quote
Deals with series that are considered profane or offensive, particularly with regards to sexual content


But did you know that the tag is only for shoujo manga? Crazy, right? The description doesn't say that ANYWHERE. If a website that claims to be an information database can't even provide a proper definition for a term it uses to classify its information, would you trust that information to be 100% accurate? I wouldn't. Simple as that.


I thought the exact same as thing as lynira, except I had her definitions of cohabitation and live-in lover switched. I figured that with cohabitation, it was something that just... happened through coincidence. I relied on my own wit to define the word, and when I think of the word 'habitat', I think of the outdoors, or rather a 'natural habitat'. A 'natural habitat' is something you can't easily control, so cohabitation appealed to me as something the protagonist didn't control.

And as I've noted, I've browsed through the tag pretty thoroughly, and I've spotted a LOT of manga that have this characteristic, so at least I'm not alone in my logic.


It's all a matter of perspective, and there's no value in allowing yourself to be confused by other people's confusion. When you look at the situation as a whole, it's all pretty obvious. Without an established, universal definition provided on the site, people will assume what they want to assume. That's all that happened. Well, probably.

...

*re-reads post*

Err...this post wasn't meant to be abrasive, so sorry if it comes off that way...

mogiks
Post #627047 - Reply to (#627045) by Badkarma
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6:09 am, Jan 4 2014
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Quote from Badkarma
For example, the smut genre's description reads: (snip) But did you know that the tag is only for shoujo manga? Crazy, right?


It's used for josei manga also wink

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Badkarma
Post #627048 - Reply to (#627047) by mogiks
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You're right.

I wrote shoujo, but I was generalizing and was implying "the collective shoujo demographic".



And for your information, the smut tag also applies to yaoi.

kitty1826x
Post #627050 - Reply to (#627045) by Badkarma
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Quote from Badkarma
It's all a matter of perspective, and there's no value in allowing yourself to be confused by other people's confusion. When you look at the situation as a whole, it's all pretty obvious. Without an established, universal definition provided on the site, people will assume what they want to assume. That's all that happened. Well, probably.


Wait isn't the purpose of this thread for a clear established, universal definition of tags. o.o
Since I had wanted a clear answer to what the tag is (only to think why is there a tag when some people think one way, and others a similar but different way) where there is already good enough alternatives ...



T^T sorry for dragging this out, and making it difficult to define something for me.
(With emotions I'm okay with gray, but for everything else I like exact and clear answers. Your normal black and white- It's like this, not like this, no gray area in between.)


Sidenote: I think smut is used for female audiences, and borderline H for male.

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Badkarma
Post #627065 - Reply to (#627050) by kitty1826x
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7:11 am, Jan 4 2014
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Yes. That IS the purpose of this thread.

Think about that for a second.

Don't you find that to be the source of the problem? This thread exists because there's no provided definition for anything, and as I've pointed out, sometimes the provided definition isn't even accurate.

Quote
Sidenote: I think smut is used for female audiences, and borderline H for male.


See? Perfect example of misinformation breeding misinformation. You're wrong. Here, this is a search for any manga with a shounen and smut tag. Here's a list of manga with a seinen and smut tag. How many manga do you see? Exactly.

'Smut', as used to define manga, has a specific function that's not as general as the word's regular definition. It's a term coined by Western fans to categorize a trend of shoujo manga that depicts explicit sexual material. (and again, by shoujo, I mean the collective shoujo demographic IE: Josei, yaoi, ect.)

With a standard understanding of the word, yeah, some things that are seinen can be pretty smutty, but if we're using it to define manga, then no, if it's not shoujo, it's not smut.


Smut aside, some things are completely subjective. Combine this with a user-updated interface, and you're bound to find a few hic-ups.

This is merely one of them. I'm sure there's hundreds more.

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