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Japan's Explicit Content Bills

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Aikanaro
Post #374180 - Reply to (#373576) by loosecannon504
Member

9:31 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 543


Quote from loosecannon504
Quote from Nisseman
Nothing should ever be censored in any media. If you don´t like it don´t watch/read/play it.

That logic is flawed. If someone came out with a video game/book/TV Show and it was blatantly racist (Let's say towards Asians for example), should those Asians just ignore it instead of fight back against the racism?


Yes.

They don't even need to ignore it - they're quite welcome to critique it, or get morally outraged over it, or say whatever they like about it. But banning it? No. How does banning an expression of an idea make anything better?

Quote from Noam Chomsky
If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Goebbels was in favor of freedom of speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise.



HeavennevaeH
Post #374181
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Lurker Queen.
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9:35 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 779


I have two things to add to this thread. Sorry if I'm repeating anything stated before.

1. http://www.impactlab.com/2008/01/06/internet-porn-shown-to-de crease-incidence-of-rape/ STATISTICS. Learn to love them.

2. More child molesters are found out because the news coverage is far bigger than it used to be. I can't speak for myself, but my parents certainly didn't hear of any rapists or child molesters from Japan in the news in the 70s'-80s'.
So of course three news of child molesters a day will seem like we're heading towards complete debauchery, but I want an omniscient God himself to come down in front of me and told me that 2000 years ago there were less than three child abuse cases per day.
And as you can see from the statistics, less repression => less rape/child abuse.

Drawings satisfy the curiosity of 999 people out of 1000, the remaining one will stay deranged no matter what. We're currently taking that one man and turning him into evidence. We neglect the statistics and bend them to the current trends in what's "socially acceptable".
In 2010, governments are still butting in as if people are a herd of idiots that can't tell fiction from reality. Did anyone go hunting dragons after reading a fairytale? If they were sane, then no.

I personally hate loli/shota and avoid it like plague, but I'm afraid we're headed for a new moral panic. I don't read it, don't care for it, it could burn for all I care, yet I'd say the world would be a better place if some people would stop being so concerned over what goes on in other peoples' minds. Which applies to virtually anything.

@Vudoodude - Amen.

Pzyko
Post #374208
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3:24 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 2


Well not even mentioning if it should be banned (I personally think not for the reasons stated before by Vudoodude and HeavennevaeH.) I think it is very hard to enforce such a law.

My point is: How do you determine something is child porn. Childlike bodies? Could be but there are some adults with childlike body features. that wouldn't be illegal either right?

If it's about age, in the manga and anime Omamori Himari a character is depicted as a child but actually is a very old monster. technically speaking it woudn't be illegal since she's thousands of years old.... yet she has a childlike body. I wonder if they could win a courtcase if it should come to that.


P.S. I don't think the inventors or the people who pressure japan to ban it will listen to reason. It are always those zealous crusaders who view themselves as righteous and people who pretend to be politically correct who come up with these kind of things.

Last edited by Pzyko at 3:31 pm, Apr 25

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Oddwaffle
Post #374215
Member

4:50 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 78


I just notice something.... a large portion of manga/anime is about high school and younger. I believe that most nations consider under 18 as minor. You can't do half/half and ban loli only cause people don't like it. You can't really judge someone with unclear law cause some smart lawyers will call it unconstitutional somewhere down the line.

As I said before, you can't ban something fiction, it's purely imagination. If you ban something fictional, then somewhere down the line some dude will tell you that fictional killing should be banned. Even the US law is pretty shaky since it can only nail people on the 'obscene' charge which is purely subjective (ex: If I think anal offensive then it would be obscene) and a large portion of porn can be called obscene.

I personally have no problem with lolicon/shotacon. I don't hate nor like it. It's just another genre amount the masses of manga has to offer. Even if I were to hate the lolicon/shotacon, "I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write."

loosecannon504
Post #374257 - Reply to (#374180) by Aikanaro
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The Gorilla Killa™
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8:38 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 3228


Quote from Aikanaro
Quote from loosecannon504
Quote from Nisseman
Nothing should ever be censored in any media. If you don´t like it don´t watch/read/play it.

That logic is flawed. If someone came out with a video game/book/TV Show and it was blatantly racist (Let's say towards Asians for example), should those Asians just ignore it instead of fight back against the racism?


Yes.

They don't even need to ignore it - they're quite welcome to critique it, or get morally outraged over it, or say whatever they like about it. But banning it? No. How does banning an expression of an idea make anything better?

I never said anything about getting the offensive work banned. I said fight back against it, because the way Nisseman formed his opinion, it made it sound like he was saying that people should just ignore it and that's it. If people fight back against something offensive and that offensive thing happens to be banned , then so be it.

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darkraiders
Post #374297
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11:46 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 113


That's just stupid i said that a few time already but who the hell r they trying to protect with that seriously they r just fictional drawing character.If they can prove to me a Law like that protect people then i wouldn't mind but no matter how much i think about it i don't see how it will protect any1 except fictional char.And seriously if Japan have nothing better to do then making law to protect fictional char well i think Japan is even more sick then what i was thinking.

genre001
Post #374460
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12:56 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 163


all hell got loose.

i mean, why prohibit these genre? although i'm a devout christian and uphold strongly what they call morality, but it doesn't mean that you need to pass such bills. if they want to do it, why not take action first on those porno videos?

yes, it should not be sold to minors, specially those that are in their childhood days: those below 12 yrs old. but these law should define the parameters that adults CAN still view these articles or works online. Coz it seems that even those are not minors can't view these articles online.

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flyingturkey
Post #374514
Member

7:09 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 2


Quote
Is it true that the current governor of Tokyo, Shintaro Ishihara, wrote stories that could be restricted if this bill passes?
You be the judge: "In 1955 a young writer of 23, Shintaro Ishihara, won the most famous Japanese literary prize, the Akutagawa Prize, for his second novel, whose original title meant 'Season of the Sun' (translated into English as Season of Violence). Its hero, a young [high school student] boxer, has as his motto, 'I do what I want, as I want'; he leads a bourgeois girl who falls madly in love with him to her death, then goes to disrupt the funeral ceremony. Ishihara followed up the next year with Punishment Room, whose main attraction is the rape of a girl student drugged by a rebellious delinquent student." 3

So Ishihara's novels are safe because they are written in text, but if you did the exact same story in manga or anime, this bill could restrict it?
Yes, that is correct.


Quote
I don't understand--If material that is "sexually stimulating" can already be classified as harmful content, then why do they need to expand the definition to include fiction featuring "minors involved in anti-social sexual situations?"
We have a hard time understanding this as well, but the Tokyo Metropolitan Government has responded a number of times stating that "some fiction featuring extreme anti-social sexual situations, such as rape and bestiality, cannot be regulated because they are not highly sexually stimulating to minors.


from the article http://www.translativearts.com/nonexist01.html

haha somewhat of a contradiction ...

if you don't understand, here's what they are saying

Novels will not be regulated because they are written text, even if they have rape situation (1st quote)

Mangas will be regulated if they have rape situation, even if showed one panel saying the girl was raped. (2nd panel)

VampireBanana
Post #374573
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11:57 pm, Apr 26 2010
Posts: 844


Come to think of it... won't such bills affect manga like Otoyome-gatari if they're passed? I can think of a few thousand pissed-off readers if Mori Kaoru's stuff is banned/regulated. embarrassed

Gods... I'm wondering if this isn't the "indirect Asian way" of dealing with touchy-touchy topics they don't want to see?

If that's really what they're thinking of... prepare to see a lot of manga banned and destroyed. And stuff like Hourou Musoku, scenes in Naruto(and possibly any and every other manga that contains sexually implicit scenes with minors) will probably go up in flames as well.

Prepare to say goodbye to all your shounen and whatever.

And don't mind my saying this... but I suspect it's also a move to clamp down on the artistic liberty of females 'cos as of late, there've been many complaints that women are getting out of hand in Japanese society(not just in the field of manga but in their challenge of many cultural/social/economic/gender norms). What this will mean is that probably even some of the famous manga classics like Kaze to ki no uta or even A cruel god reigns in heaven... will vanish. The former: for its portrayal of sexual scenes between minors and the latter: for its portrayal of pedophilia. Japan can be really extreme in its zeal of cleaning up all the dirty things in life.

To continue, if they want to go for more drastic measures, then women will no longer be able to write much. Men will go back to writing shoujo... and maybe even josei. No more women in seinen, shounen, etc. Any and every remaining genre that women have freedom within... will probably be heavily regulated, restricted. Well... chauvinism at its best, I guess. But I doubt they'll take this route but instead, use bills after bills to routinely suppress the rights and freedom of not just women but also men... using "gender conventions" to probably set forth guidelines determing what men/women can/cannot write but in a highly indirect manner.

I guess Japan wants to shoot itself in its feet, hands and legs. *sighs*

Last edited by VampireBanana at 12:44 am, Apr 27

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lollipop_bop
Post #374602
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3:28 am, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 2


i wouldn't mind so much if it was just a ban on underage people buying the products, but if they were to ban mangaka from creating shota/loli stuff off the basis that it's child pornography...it kinda makes me fear for the future of manga. one of the reasons i enjoy manga so much is because it just seems like an uninhibited art form where anything goes, but if this ban were to be issued, to me it'd be kinda like "how far would they go?" is it all shota and loli content regardless of its graphic nature and/or context? will they go after guro next? content of manga should be left to the mangaka and editor, they ought to know best what kinda content is appropriate for what kinda audience.

international image?...speaking as one from western culture, if this debate were to become mainstream here......oh god...i don't even want to imagine it...'cause i know that i would probably not discuss this type of thing with friends who have not had exposure to manga/anime. i couldn't imagine that any major media outlet would depict shota/loli content "objectively" and i doubt the majority of people would take it upon themselves to try to understand the manga culture as a whole, shota/loli included. it's undeniable that there are portrayals of all kinds of deviant behavior and perversions in manga, and i wouldn't be surprised if people were to liken shota/loli manga to pedophilia in the catholic church or something. and as manga grows in popularity outside of japan, it's only a matter of time before it gets the same attention as graphic videogames.

i just dread a bleak future for manga if mangaka were to have to conform to regulations set up just to enforce a "clean international image." even if they accomplished that, it wouldn't be much more then a cheap facade (will it cut down on sex crimes?!! will we see a decrease in actual child pornography where real children are unconscionably exploited?!! will it cure society of pedophilia?!! can't you start with the actual criminals first?!!!!!!) if any of the mangaka or readers of these shota/loli manga were committing any heinous crime such as rape or pedophilia, go ahead and arrest them and ban them from doing what they do or whatever, but really, where are the crimes to society occurringconfused? go ban infallibility from popedom or something!!!!

HuhWhat
Post #374611
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4:22 am, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 101


You guys are completely ignoring the feelings of the characters. Maybe loli/shota characters like being raped, abused and turned into cum buckets. Oh wait, that's not possible... because they don't have feelings any more than my cup noodle has burn scars.

By the way, I'm still searching for that hentai about the boy raping his alien foster mother. sad

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John21
Post #374621
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5:16 am, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 749


can't the people of japan oppose the bill or something...i mean if the bill is unpopular it will not necessarily be passed. Doesn't the government like take public opinion into account while passing these kinds of bills which will affect a whole lot of people in Japan because well manga is popular in japan isn't it. Because well now they are banning images of minors in sexual positions, having sexual intercouse, nudity etc next they will be banning minors being involved in bloodshed and violence like in Ubel Blatt where the main character just looks like a kid really. Doesn't the Japanese public have any say in this matter? Is it definite that the bill will be passed

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flyingturkey
Post #374623
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5:23 am, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 2


if they can somehow prove that otaku are the leading reason for rape/child molestation, than banning shota/loli seems unjustified.... since the majority of the readers are probably otaku

Nisseman
Post #374628
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6:39 am, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 479


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This is whats happening to the world.

qwert123
Post #374630
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6:49 am, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 157


Ban something because, although its fictional, it "reproduce" some illegal or immoral act?

Yes, so let's ban it!

So let's ban shota/loli,
Let's ban rape games ,
Let's ban guro,
Let's ban violent video games(God of war, no one? shooters? Devil May Cry?...),
Let's ban violent movies, that show a lot of killing (all of Hollywood basically ).

Going with that line of thinking, Let's ban the news because it shows our family, specially our children, a "darker" side of society, and because of that my son is going to become a serial killer, a rapist, a corrupt politician, is going to kill every body in his school because he's bullied, or anything else you can think of it.

Since one of the main type of distribution media is the Internet, let's ban it! What if the bank systems will suffer from it, what if hell will break loose, WE STOPPED THE PROLIFERATION OF IMMORAL CONTENT, we can now have a happy society!!!

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