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witch hunter anime

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Inarius
Post #542407
user avatar
Inarius
Member

8:16 pm, Mar 27 2012
Posts: 2


I don't see a problem here...so allot of the stuff can be traced back to other mangas. Big deal, the mangas in question traced stuff from other mangas/games/movies as well.

Nothing is original these days, everything is just recycled over and over. As for the backgrounds, there are books that serve as referrals if you're a mangaka.

As for the Star Wars part, yeah it looks alike but I don't see why all the fuss? If I was Lucas I'd be proud as f**k knowing that a manwha artist got some of his inspiration from my movies.

I don't get why all the butthurt over this series. Is it not fun to read, is it not entertaining, does it not have beautiful artwork?

Well if you don't like it, then don't read it....I didn't see people machine-gunning Kishimoto for copy/pasta'ing Raven from tekken or Kubo slightly modifying Seiji Sawamura from Midori Days into Ichigo.

But that's just my opinion. By all means, feud on. It's not like it will actually make a difference to any of the WH readers.

switchgear
Post #542776 - Reply to (#541609) by Kaitentsuki
user avatar
Member

12:51 am, Mar 30 2012
Posts: 214


Quote from Kaitentsuki
Quote from RamonE15
Call me stupid or w/e you like but as far as i know the story is unique.. There might be similiar background and poses but that doesnt now mean the author is copying some else work. Just because 1% of his manhwa was not done by him does not mean he is plagiarisming anybody. He did the other 99% by h ...

Your entitled to your opinions as i am to mine so im not going to call you stupid embarrassed
Heres mine, you gotta admit its a bit lazy to copy backgrounds no?
Some mangaka have even been put out of work for plagiarizing backgrounds (more severe then this one though) so its not really a good idea to do that, risking your career because u liked a background so much youd make a identical scenery with a fresh look is not worth it.
And the one above me, what was your input on the LOTR castle or whatever it was, dont really remember the name but that was kinda identical.


Minas Morgul...It looks very similar, almost identical if memory serves. I'm not defending the dude for plagiarism. Its the cheap way out, and rather pathetic. Taking inspiration from a design is one thing but copying it is another.

As I said before I will still read WH because I find the story interesting and it does have some rather unique plot elements, like the last arc. I would have absolutely no problem if he credited the inspiration for his buildings like using Minas Morgul in his work. The things that gets me is some of the near identical panels and drawings from other serious. A building is a building. I'm sure there was some inspiration for Minas Morgul that looks really similar out there somewhere.

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efile
Post #572737
Member

7:03 am, Oct 7 2012
Posts: 1


This is dumb and who really cares. Witch hunter is still very good and original in its story and characters. most of the poses are generic and he used some other pages as templates...so what. you tards need to grow up.

Atchim99
Post #577386
Member

5:38 pm, Nov 17 2012
Posts: 4


I guess people just don't get what plagiarism is.
What the author did is far from plagiarism, it just means that the author lacks creativity.
Even if a legal action is taken nothing will happen, why?

1° The LoTR and Star War references, they are world wide famous series, there are things far worse than one similar character(or similar hat), armor, and scenes, so someone copying something is normal, and in this case the author is below normal, so they cant be used as references for legal actions.

2° Berserk cant be used either, Berserk is manga whose story that goes on an ancient Denmark(Midland), using maps and characters as references is legal, if it was illegal then half of European comics should have been removed, or he should have asked permission from Denmark govern to use Denmark history? who knows(sarcasm).
Spoiler (mouse over to view)
(the Denmark is Midland stuff has been confirmed by Miura Kentaro)


3° copying small parts of story like Bleach, D-gray man, FMA and Dogs, isn't a problem its called reference, and he didn't copy much(actually he copied very little), copying a hole page isn't a problem unless he do the same for many different chapters for 70 chapters he only copied around 20, its a very small number, if he did that for over 100 pages then it would be plagiarism.

Besides if he was to be sued for this, then they should persecute Oda too, after all there only two character in entertainment world that can acknowledged by their shadows, Indiana Jones and Monkey D. Luffy, and both are extreme protective of their hats, they always grab their hats if it means to lose their arms, both loves freedom and adventures.

Another thing, Freezing is Japanese manga written by a Korean author, that's why it got an anime.

One last thing I pretty sure most people that are butthurt with this, would never be able to create a manga with the so called originality they defend, they create even more copies than Cho Jung-man, some would even draw on paper above the manga, so if even yourselves cant create something better or original don't complain its pathetic.

PixiPie
Post #577391
Member

7:08 pm, Nov 17 2012
Posts: 7


Denmark ... Midland? Eh, no.

Atchim99
Post #577415
Member

10:46 pm, Nov 17 2012
Posts: 4


It is http://berserk.wikia.com/wiki/Midland, Miura said that in a private interview

Unrequited
Post #577419 - Reply to (#577386) by Atchim99
Member

12:14 am, Nov 18 2012
Posts: 66


Quote from Atchim99
I guess people just don't get what plagiarism is.


Lol people know what plagiarism is. Panel for panel mirroring is plagiarism. That goes above and beyond reference. Especially when people like Nick Simmons get blasted unequivocally for doing the same shit. There's no irony or adaptation to the referencing. You can make homages to series you like without straight up copying shit. Furthermore most of the examples of plagiarism don't pay homage at all, except for maybe the Star Wars/Lord of the Rings ones. Also there's no threshold for plagiarism and even if there were, there's certainly enough evidence to overcome reasonable doubt.

Fuck my shit how are people defending this to such a degree? Look at the panels that are copied. They're various, insignificant panels of other multiple series. Nobody's god damned referencing anything. Nobody's gonna go, "Haha cool, this author referenced page 46, volume 3 of <Insert Comic Here>!"

See it for what it really is. Cho Jung Man as a fledgling artist, ran into composition roadblocks. He didn't know how to draw certain things so he copied them from other authors. Notice how all of the plagiarism complaints come from earlier on in the series? That's because as Cho Jung Man was forced to draw more and more he began to acquire enough talent to compose his own shit with more conviction, without having to rely on other artists as crutches.

I can't even believe you'd think that Miura and Oda are equitable comparisons to Cho Jung Man. They don't go out taking pictures and then just trace over their photographs because they don't know how to draw or convey what they want. Referencing or taking inspiration from real life things is in no way comparable to cherry picking your favorite panels from other artists.

Quote from Atchim99
One last thing I pretty sure most people that are butthurt with this, would never be able to create a manga with the so called originality they defend, they create even more copies than Cho Jung-man, some would even draw on paper above the manga, so if even yourselves cant create something better or original don't complain its pathetic.


Worst defense to criticism ever. People don't need to be chefs to know they're eating shit. Haha by this logic, "Hey guys don't you be calling Battleship a dumb movie! Unless you can make a better movie, don't have a negative opinion of anything... ever."

Now, that being said... I still think Cho Jung Man's got plenty of talent and can write a decent enough story. But everyone going through every fucking hoop to make sure to Cho Jung Man comes off as impeccable? In denial. Point is, you can still like something/someone while also admitting they've fucked up. You don't have to be perfect to be talented.

Atchim99
Post #577527
Member

7:12 pm, Nov 18 2012
Posts: 4


When I said
Quote
"I guess people just don't get what plagiarism is".
I meant that as in the legal sense, there are references and copies, not everything he did was a pure copy, so it you cant use everything as plagiarism, plagiarism is a crime and demands legal action, accusing someone of plagiarism will demand a legal action(like what happened with Nick Simmons).

Quote
See it for what it really is. Cho Jung Man as a fledgling artist, ran into composition roadblocks. He didn't know how to draw certain things so he copied them from other authors. Notice how all of the plagiarism complaints come from earlier on in the series? That's because as Cho Jung Man was forced to draw more and more he began to acquire enough talent to compose his own shit with more conviction, without having to rely on other artists as crutches.


I agree with that, even the authors assistants confessed it in a blog.

Quote
I can't even believe you'd think that Miura and Oda are equitable comparisons to Cho Jung Man. They don't go out taking pictures and then just trace over their photographs because they don't know how to draw or convey what they want. Referencing or taking inspiration from real life things is in no way comparable to cherry picking your favorite panels from other artists.


It didn't meant to sound like that, I tend to think about something and only talk(or post) only a part of what I thought, sorry it was I just at expressing myself.
The first part of my post was supposed the explain that the copies of Bleach, Berserk and FMA weren't legal plagiarism(since the author confessed it just becomes a heavy reference), and the second part was to explain that the copies of Lord of the Rings and Star Wars were just references, to people don't aggregate everything as plagiarism=crime, and the quote

Quote
One last thing I pretty sure most people that are butthurt with this, would never be able to create a manga with the so called originality they defend, they create even more copies than Cho Jung-man, some would even draw on paper above the manga, so if even yourselves cant create something better or original don't complain its pathetic


was also about this, once again sorry for the misunderstand.

if we analyze copies from 1 to 10, and being 10 the worse.
I would say Nick Simmons case is 9 and Cho Jung-man is 4, and the criminal plagiarism is on 6, there are exceptions such Raruto which would on 8 but since its a comedy fan-fiction is falls to 4 and its legal, and he doesn't need permission to use it and can profit from it, if Cho Jung-man didn't confessed it would had reach 6, and the manga could be cancelled, Nick Simmons tried to cover and went from 8 to 9, I do understand about copyrights, piracy and plagiarism since my family works in the politics and the legal area, hope this can help.
And once again sorry for the misunderstand.

Kaitentsuki
Post #577528 - Reply to (#577527) by Atchim99
user avatar
Member

7:20 pm, Nov 18 2012
Posts: 853


Didn't he confess after it got exposed? I mean if he had said it beforehand or shortly after its release I would accept it but since it got exposed and he said that it was just a reference afterwards I wont. I agree however that It is really borderline of being a plagiarism.

PixiPie
Post #577529 - Reply to (#577415) by Atchim99
Member

7:23 pm, Nov 18 2012
Posts: 7


Quote from Atchim99
It is http://berserk.wikia.com/wiki/Midland[/url], Miura said that in a private interview


.. I live in Denmark. How come I haven't heard of it.. Hm.

Atchim99
Post #577538 - Reply to (#577528) by Kaitentsuki
Member

9:11 pm, Nov 18 2012
Posts: 4


Confessing after being exposed by the fans is one thing, after being exposed by legal action(like Nick Simmons) is another thing, besides confessing before or using as a joke like Gintama, Sket-Dan, Binbougami Ga! it would have no legal or complaint(exception if the person is a troll, with absolutely nothing to do expect complain), besides the author made copies of different series in nearly equal amounts, which is even more difficult call plagiarism, plagiarism is manly for one only work, those with multiple references of various series can just be called references, in Nick Simmons case 90% of the plagiarism was for Bleach, and he even denied saying that he never heard of bleach, only after a legal action from Viz he confessed, I don't know if his manga was cancelled, but i believe it has(or it should).

PixiPie

It was on a private interview so I doubt there are many who know, I already had an idea of locations in Berserk world, but The Midland thing was a surprise for me too.

Kaitentsuki
Post #577539 - Reply to (#577538) by Atchim99
user avatar
Member

9:18 pm, Nov 18 2012
Posts: 853


But im not talking about Nick Simmons, im talking about the one that wrote Witch Hunter, though i do admit Nick Simmons did a much more severe plagiarism, which is why i wrote that the author of Witch Hunter did was close to plagiarizing.

disgradius
Post #579546
Member

7:14 pm, Dec 5 2012
Posts: 1


Wow, this discussion... Painters regularly copy and repaint previous works, playwrights recycle and rewrite scripts from the past, composers straight out rip themes and motifs from other composers they admire. This isn't plagiarism, just a copy. It's perfectly fine to craft a work using another work as reference, plagiarism in arts/culture occurs only when you copy entire sections of the work exactly as is. Plagiarism in the arts differs significantly from that in academia. The latter revolves solely on ideas whereas the former also values presentation. So long as you don't see Edward Elric showing up in Witch Hunter, it's not really plagiarism for the author to take similar scenes and copy them as reference.

Kurogane Akuma
Post #579556
Neutral being
Member

10:24 pm, Dec 5 2012
Posts: 3


Only three things

1. idiots

2. argue about "plagiarizing" in a topic that is not about an anime for WH

3. anime would be good, but it is not well-known enough

Unrequited
Post #579581 - Reply to (#579546) by disgradius
Member

3:21 am, Dec 6 2012
Posts: 66


Quote from disgradius
Wow, this discussion... Painters regularly copy and repaint previous works, playwrights recycle and rewrite scripts from the past, composers straight out rip themes and motifs from other composers they admire. This isn't plagiarism, just a copy. It's perfectly fine to craft a work using another work ...


Yeah, imagine copying down a whole page from another book then just and then just replacing some of the shit with synonyms. *Totally not plagiarism guys!* This isn't some fucking Rosencrantz and Guildenstern offshoot adaptation. *Nothing wrong with referencing!* Suddenly soulless palette swaps are references now? Because, you know, everybody will understand the reference to Volume 6, Page 95 of <Insert Comic Here>. These aren't just vague themes and motifs.

There is absolutely no homage or inspirational merit to 90% of those so called "references" pointed out. You must be kidding yourself if you believe that what has been shown is okay in any professional capacity. I suppose Nick Simmons would have been fine if he only copied buildings/backgrounds. Or maybe his Kenpachi ripoff should be permissible so long as he threw in a few more cosmetic changes. It's just copying and not plagiarism if he gives his character a different name and personality! Just like your Elric example. It wasn't technically Kenpachi so it's all good! I dunno what people were complaining about.

Inconspicuous plagiarism doesn't mean it's not plagiarism. It just means there are worse perpetrators. And being vapid, uninspired, cliche/derivative is not the same as what happened here.

Quote from Kurogane Akuma
Only three things

1. idiots

2. argue about "plagiarizing" in a topic that is not about an anime for WH

3. anime would be good, but it is not well-known enough


Haha that's rich. I suppose all of us are #1 because of #2. But you've gone ahead and fucked up #3, so come on and join us in the #1 circle! Come to think of it not only were you wrong, but you were wrong about the actual topic! Are we bigger idiots for being irrelevant, or are you a bigger idiot for being wrong? The word may never know!

P.S. It's probably you...

Last edited by Unrequited at 3:43 am, Dec 6

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