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The Lolicon Shotacon Debate

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Odrin
Post #534864
user avatar
Member

10:31 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 17


so i would only remove DL links to sities like megaupload, mediafire, rapidshare... any1 who is interested in loli or shota can use google or any other search engine to find some group thats translating that genre... so i dont see a point in removing links to groups that they can find easly with just couple more clicks....

RilleL
Post #534865
user avatar
Member

10:35 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 172


To me, and to most people I don't think shotacon/lolicon actually matters that much. I'm more about enjoying a good manga. I therefore vote to remove both the genres. Someone posted earlier a link to a blogg which brings up MU, and it was 2 links that linked to the genre page of loli and shota. If the genres were removed no one could say that MU is specifically categorizing them.
Now is not the time to "stand your ground" and show big daddy how tough and stubborn you are. The future of MU may hang in the balance. You don't need genre to tell you about loli/shota, you can just read the manga itself.

derpMonster
Post #534866 - Reply to (#534863) by BlueCheese
Member

10:41 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 43


this view has a funny slippery slope see - people want scapegoats.

next they'll look at yaoi and yuri and say - I don't really see how anyone can justify that stuff. Get rid of it all.

then they'll look at shounen ai and shojo ai and say - I don't really see how anyone can justify that stuff. Get rid of it all.

then they'll look at seinen and josei and say - I don't really see how anyone can justify that stuff. Get rid of it all.

then they'll look at ecchi and harem and say - I don't really see how anyone can justify that stuff. Get rid of it all.

then they'll look at shounen and shoujo and say - I don't really see how anyone can justify that stuff. Get rid of it all.

slippery slopes are dangerous.

i humbly vote - keep the info - disable adsense on those sites - remove the legal warning thing - and remove the dl links.

derpMonster
Post #534867 - Reply to (#534864) by Odrin
Member

10:51 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 43


yep - no point jeopardizing the entire site :< - i might suggest moving to a more adult friendly ad-provider as well?

Freelance
Post #534868
Member

11:07 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 6


How about moving *all* the porn reporting including shota/lolicon to a separate site? But keep the database shared? It feels as if the hentai stuff is actually flooding the release page to the point where it bloats it and finding the actual manga nuggets get harder. Sifting through new releases only to find a bunch of yaoi is really annoying. It's been bothering me for a couple of months already.

That way this site would remain advertisement friendly.

Mini_Twilight
Post #534869
Member

11:07 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 27


While I do not agree with the publication of Shotacon and Lolicon manga, it is undeniable that these genres do exist, and as a website that gives information on manga there is no fault in providing information regarding titles of this genre. I believe that confirming the existence of the subject material neither condones nor condemns the material itself. It may further be argued that providing links to groups scanning such material also does not condone nor condemn the material. Google in particular should be no stranger to this line of thinking, considering this is the fundamental property for which their search engine relies.

Given the sensitivity and controversy of the subject, I think information on groups scanning and translating the material should remain, however direct links to their sites should be removed. If a person wishes to access such material, the onus is on them to then manually find the group involved. In this way, MangaUpdates is not directly providing such sites with traffic and cannot be accused of doing so.

derpMonster
Post #534870 - Reply to (#534868) by Freelance
Member

11:13 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 43


i think a column for genre in the releases page is a good idea if it's possible - we won't have to click lolishot accidentally - also, i read yaoi but some people may may not like it smile

DFC
Post #534871
Member

11:25 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 1


"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."
-Pastor Martin Niemöller


Perhaps a solution could be reached, simply by separating the site into a hentai/normal database. However, by giving in to these unreasonable demands would be too much. How about I remove your right to worship some fictional character under the subset of religion? How would you feel huh?

Nadorn85
Post #534872 - Reply to (#534837) by true_grave_unit
Member

11:37 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 1


I voted 'I don't care', but that's because while I don't believe in censorship and think the pricks that started this are being tyrannical, no matter how I don't really care about the content, I think the people who own this site should do what they have to do, and what they think is best.

dreamer00013
Post #534873
user avatar
Member

11:38 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 320


I am also no fan of shotacon/lolicon, but I've got one thing to say: There are series that are categorized under these genres, but aren't like that at all. "Blood Alone" is one of them. By the way, it is also my only lolicon-series that I've ever read. So I don't want to say: People who read that stuff are all pedos or perverts. I just don't want to claim that.

Anyways, MangaUpdates shouldn't erase a part of its information. It may be better if there really were a second website for all hentai-stuff or lolicon/shotacon stuff. But whenever I find a name somewhere and want to search for it because I'm absolutely clueless & curious, I want to know which genres it has. So it would be absolutely great if there was a saying a là "If you want to know more about this series which includes the following genres:"", please visit this website, where you will find more information."
Would that be an option?

Aleph0
Post #534874 - Reply to (#534838) by crystalsouls
Member

11:46 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 14


This. It's about the only solution that would have prevented the Adsense shitstorm in the first place...

BTW, how are the chances that Google will reverse the decision even if you remove the DL links? I'd wager quite slim...

Chibi-Chibi
Post #534875
 Member

11:53 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 103


(I don't have time to read all the comment so if the same was said, sorry for another read <_<)

As one who back in the day studied to become kindergarten teacher, having this profession now and having professional experiences with children I am entirely against children porn.
However i think that trying to erase lolicon/shotacon manga/anime/doujinshi is totally senseless. Priority of people who are making decisions should be in preventing the actual crime (ie adults taking out their sexual frustration on children) instead of trying to ban something that is drawn. Drawn images are exactly that, drawn. (For sake of future generations i hope that in most cases are) Pictures based on imagination and not reality. And that is exactly the was reader will see them. As much as pedophiles as such make me sick i'd rather see them fapping over lolikon manga than do some hunting at neighboring school.
Leave it as it is, at best i could go with what the first comment said (erasing the DDL that can be found here). Going along with this "lets censor the internet and RL" will hurt humanity on the long run. I'm not actually expecting that censors will not happen, the only thing we can do is delay the process.
I guess nobody can really learn anything from out history. Censoring literature happen in the past already, until people snapped and stuff happen. I guess this world really is doomed <_<

NightSwan
Post #534876
user avatar
Mad With a Hat
Member

11:54 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 4598


Like I've stated before, it's all fiction.
If they start removing lolicon/shotacon, what's next?
Personally, I won't cry if there's none of it, but other people enjoy it and it's their right.

I'm against censorship.
Where does it end?

My opinion is that no action should be taken.
To be on the safe side though, I agree with the link removal - and I vote for that.
At least until things clear out (if they do).
Other than that... MU is an information site.

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unya
Post #534877
Member

12:09 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 39


Won't change anything to remove them unless you removed all adult contents to begin with because it's well known they aren't trying to just ban lolicon only, but any h-mangas that seem to involve underage characters.

Konbanwa002007
Post #534878
user avatar
Member

12:36 pm, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 20


I think you should leave things as they are, this is an information site afterall. It is ridiculous to try to censor, as where do you draw the line as to what is or not loli/shota. Im not one for reading loli or shota but if theyve removed 'Kaichou wa maid-sama' because its loli then it appears that i will have read some possibly more than i even realised. Will they then move on to more innocent manga series like 'Lucky star', 'Yotsubato', 'K-ON', 'Mahou Sensei Negima' 'Minami-ki' all having young characters/young looking characters portrayed in them. I can see why they pick up on series like 'Kodomo no Jikan'. but it really does depend on what they will class as having loli or shota in them...
Would just a single character or scene lead to the censors crying out "loli/Shota" to a perfectly decent series?!

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