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Why do you not read Shoujo Manga

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jasperv
Post #559613
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7:17 am, Jul 5 2012
Posts: 289


another suggestion
Made in Heaven: well its Josei but this the kind of thing that let me read a manga from another demographic, two volumes every volume tell the story from the one partner Point of View a la Rashomon wink

Roughan
Post #559654 - Reply to (#559611) by Nirhtuc
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2:28 pm, Jul 5 2012
Posts: 250


Quote from Nirhtuc
I rarely read shoujo manga. I think I might have liked shoujo if I was still in primary school, but I'm 27 now and I don't enjoy the weak chibi female characters, immature storylines, and lack of depth in shoujo manga.

I like some josei, but romance is my favourite genre, and I rarely come across ...


First of all, shojo is a demographic, so BL is shojo/josei manga because it's made for straight women. Second, there are plenty of shojo manga with smart, independent female leads (or at least ones that mature into such), you are just looking in the wrong places if you can't find such manga. Third, shojo manga is incredibly diverse in terms of themes, characters, and style. Some of the better shojo manga tackle some of the weightiest issues in human existence with tremendous subtlety and imagination.

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asmageddon
Post #559788
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12:59 pm, Jul 6 2012
Posts: 104


I usually try to not read anything that can be easily categorized like this and shoujo is especially bad when it comes to being cliched and unoriginal in my experience.

That said, many(not really that many but oh well) of my favorite anime and manga are shoujo, including Karakuri Odette, Kieli and Ghost Hunt, Karin and Natsume Yuujinchou on the anime side.

In general, quoting Nirhtuc:
Quote
I don't enjoy the weak chibi female characters, immature storylines, and lack of depth in shoujo manga.


That said, I'm always open to suggestions.

weaklin6z
Post #559792
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1:50 pm, Jul 6 2012
Posts: 48


lol.. .i havent read a shoujo manga in my whole life...i really hate the glittering flowers lol dead

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fisukisuki
Post #559952
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5:08 pm, Jul 7 2012
Posts: 44


I do read and like Shoujo. but i pretty picky.
I don't really read shoujo manga with Love triangle/s, Harem, and weak girl(i didnt mean sickly). Actually maybe the reason is more than that but i guess my mind is not really work hard today so give a reason that i remember.

The type of shoujo manga that i read is mostly with not weak female/male, not too innocent/naive that you can call them stupid, and not thinking that s/he is the MOST PITIFUL PERSON in the big world. I didn't mind the crybaby type, because cry is something that everyone most do, as long as the person who crybaby is not weak, JUST crybaby. With kind of realistic and mature main character. But not perfect because that would be unrealistic.

And if i have a reason to hate shoujo maybe because if the female protagonist in shoujo manga always tell herself that she is ugly but actually the author made her sooo 'female shoujo character style' that meaning the protagonist is actually 'ordinary' or you could say 'pretty' but it's as if the protagonist never look her ownself in the mirror! THAT'S SO STUPID!!! dead Or perhaps because the female characters have braided hair, or because the shyness/morose, or appearance the geeky that covers her beauty itself but in the story is all the (others)people mocked her and say that female is ugly. mad Argh... that remind me with many shoujo manga that the female protagonist got bullied by others just because the closeness between her and populare male character in the story.

#somehow i suddenly angry sad

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Post #560795
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9:19 pm, Jul 12 2012
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For me, it's definitely the depth of the plot and characters.
If there are no evident themes it's automatically a 7.5/10 for me.
For instance, weak female leads, possessive lovers, maybe even smut. Typical shoujo.

That's why I don't read certain shoujo mangas. After all, I love shoujo manga. I hate to admit it irl but I love romance.

Another thing that keeps me from reading shoujo or manga in general is the ratings and the reviews on this site. If the ratings are poor, I don't usually bother picking it up.

I'm quite picky with manga.

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amy_levi
Post #560797
Member

9:37 pm, Jul 12 2012
Posts: 4


Too much love and romance. It's overrated and appears EVRYWHERE, I can't stand it anymore. Too unrealistic, too sappy, too dumb. Dunno, it just gets on my nerves. Romantic lovey-lovey dreams are for kids, I'm too old for that.

gwkimmy
Post #560800 - Reply to (#559654) by Roughan
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10:13 pm, Jul 12 2012
Posts: 279


Quote from Roughan
First of all, shojo is a demographic, so BL is shojo/josei manga because it's made for straight women.

actually, no, "straight women" is a demographic while shoujo is manga marketed at a specific demographic, namely younger women. BL and yaoi, while marketed at women, are most definitely not shoujo. they only share similar demographics. there can certainly be hints of BL and BL subplots in a shoujo manga, however. often shoujo vs. shounen vs. whatever can be identified simply by the magazine it runs in.

i'll read some cute shoujos now and then, just like i occasionally go to see the newest disney movie in theaters, but most of the time i stick to josei and some seinen. and my newest guilty pleasure is BL *cough*


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asmageddon
Post #560883
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8:12 am, Jul 13 2012
Posts: 104


Just wanted to note that shoujo doesn't pluralize as "shoujos" but rather "shoujo", same deal with "anime", "manga" and other Japanese loanwords. Wikipedia link

Drakron
Post #561024 - Reply to (#559952) by fisukisuki
Member

5:21 am, Jul 14 2012
Posts: 56


Quote from fisukisuki
The type of shoujo manga that i read is mostly with not weak female/male, not too innocent/naive that you can call them stupid, and not thinking that s/he is the MOST PITIFUL PERSON in the big world. I didn't mind the crybaby type, because cry is something that everyone most do, as long as the person who crybaby is not weak, JUST crybaby. With kind of realistic and mature main character. But not perfect because that would be unrealistic.


Let me take this as a example of a Shoujo series I enjoyed.

Fruits Basket.

Tohru is not really a strong person, she is also what I would call innocent/naive but reason why it works is because the story is not about Tohru getting a Bishie, the story is about the Sohmas and the Zodiac curse.

That is why it works, Tohru works as a catalyst for the story to unveil and is not even the cause for the curse to end so it functions.

A weak character is not the problem depending on the structure, the problem I see is the copy/paste of the exact same elements and I am not tried of female leads as much I am sick and tired of the god damn rapists that pass as "male leads", those one dimensional "bad boys" are the issue I have.

Another series I liked reading was Ima Torikaebaya Monogatari ("The Change" just brings up too many results) that also had mostly normal people, I suppose the issue I have is not as much as the female leads but rather how piles and piles of Shoujo are nothing but "Why Abusive Relationships are The Right Thing" guides.

Mature female character means nothing if oh, she falls for that womanizer bad boy Bishie that at one point or another will sexually assault her if he had not done so.


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tsuyutonamida
Post #561623
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1:34 am, Jul 18 2012
Posts: 24


I do primarily read shoujo manga, but I have to spend a lot of time finding one that is worth reading. The reasons are: too many cliches and stock characters, the main character is usually an incredibly whiny, self-absorbed person, the love interest is perfect in everything (good at sports, attractive, has money, and has a devoted fan club), even if the lead's man is abusive she tolerates it and takes it as a sign of his "true love" for her (the whole "rape is love" scenario), most of the lead's problems would go away if she didn't spend so much time over analyzing the little stuff and neglecting the urgent matters, most of the stories aren't that deep, and that despite the lead not feeling ready to have sex she still does it in the end because if she didn't it would mean that she doesn't love him enough.

Sorry that it's a bit too long. I think that shoujo manga's downfall though for many people is that it is perceived as girly and that in and of itself is the kiss of death (and that stands for anything in society). But its flaws also help to put a lot of people off, in my opinion, at least.



Last edited by tsuyutonamida at 3:17 am, Jul 18

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elqi
Post #562045
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4:25 pm, Jul 20 2012
Posts: 36


- too many cliches
- doormat/weak lead female character
- perfect character (usually male)
- serious issues left hanging/without explanation/forgotten when the plot advanced, or finished with some illogical conclusion (excusable for comedy,though)
- good guy get friedzoned, bad guy got the girl

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dustdog
Post #562051
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4:49 pm, Jul 20 2012
Posts: 4


I read shoujo, though I don't super care for it; I'm not the target demographic but it's probably closer to what my tastes in romance are compared to BL-stuff or shounen. elqi's points pretty much point out what vexes me about it. On the plus side, I thought I was the only one who hates love triangles where the good guy was obviously getting the shaft, I always root for him, if only to see something different, and it never happens! Fruits Basket was an enjoyable read first time around when I had rarely read any shoujo, but I don't think I could deal with reading it ever again, I'd flip a wig. I really don't care for shoujo/seinen where it's 6+ volumes, and the series ends with them getting together at the end of high school or whatever, I find it a real turn off having it dragged out for so long, and you don't even see what happens after they get together. 10 years on epilogues do nothing for it.


BL type stuff written by guys for guys and I'd be all over it, bara does not really count.

Last edited by dustdog at 4:57 pm, Jul 20

Roughan
Post #562405 - Reply to (#560800) by gwkimmy
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3:14 pm, Jul 22 2012
Posts: 250


Quote from gwkimmy
actually, no, "straight women" is a demographic while shoujo is manga marketed at a specific demographic, namely younger women. BL and yaoi, while marketed at women, are most definitely not shoujo. they only share similar demographics. there can certainly be hints of BL and BL subplots in a ...


I'll just quote this from shojo manga anthropologist and expert Matt Thorn:
Quote
Strictly speaking, the term shôjo manga refers only to those manga geared explicitly at girls below the age of eighteen, but as often as not it is used as I use it in this article, to refer to all female-oriented manga.


and:

Quote
Then there's the genre of "boys' love" or "yaoi." These feature romantic and sexual relationships between male characters, but these are nothing like gay comics made by and for gay men. Because they are made by and for women (and read by many teen girls, too), they are, strictly speaking, a subgenre of shôjo manga


see this article for more details

Basically any manga that is made for females is categorized as shojo (or josei which didn't exist and was lumped together with shojo before the 80's). That means that any BL manga that's targeted toward women qualifies it as a shojo manga.

Take for example, the Shogakukan Manga Award, which has 4 award categories: Children's, Boy's, Girl's, and General. 7Seeds is classified as a josei manga, but it won the award for Girl's category. This confirms that shojo and josei are usually lumped together as shojo to refer to all female-oriented manga.

Also, the first BL manga (Heart of Thomas, The Song of the Wind and the Trees) appeared in shojo magazines.

Last edited by Roughan at 3:32 pm, Jul 22

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Kitteh_13
Post #563078
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3:43 am, Jul 27 2012
Posts: 749


Thanks for all the info guys! biggrin Finishing up my power point right now.
If any of you live in the Toronto area in Canada come to Con Bravo in Burlington this weekend!

My panel will be on Friday at 7pm if anyone would be interested bigrazz

Also female oriented manga would be: Shoujo, Josei, AND Redikomi.
BL and Yaoi can be under Shoujo/Josei/Shounen or Seinen
It all has to do with which publication it's published.

Last edited by Kitteh_13 at 6:20 am, Jul 27

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