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New Poll - Bad Spelling/Grammar

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cmertb
Post #579993 - Reply to (#579984) by Kirjava
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1:40 am, Dec 10 2012
Posts: 159


This is a rather bizarre critique of fan translators. If exactly the same Japanese cliche is used in the same circumstances all the time, why would you want to translate it in different ways? "Even if you say that...!" = そう言われても "At this rate...!" = このまま "As expected of" = さすが Any translator knows these cliches. Why would you bother to invent new ways of saying the same thing over and over when Japanese themselves don't bother with that?

Also, are you saying that 90% of scanlations shouldn't be done at all? I'm afraid you're in the vast minority on that as far as other leechers are concerned (not that I personally disagree).

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fridge
Post #579994 - Reply to (#579950) by Damnedman
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1:51 am, Dec 10 2012
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"[...] he fansub community due the all the engrish [...]"
You know, that post would be so much less embarrassing if you had actually bothered to proofread it beforehand. Amateurs, geez. You're a joke. Your argument is so completely and utterly flawed, it's pitiful. What are you trying to say? That all scanlators are a joke? That all fansubbers are the creme de la creme? Are you a scanlator? To what do you owe your intricate understanding of the scanlation community? How did you know about our lack of manpower and inability to find a proofreader/QC?
I get 10 guys like you every month applying to be proofreaders. And they're all the greatest, naturally, and they've seen dozens of mistakes in our releases. Know what happens next? First they provide a shitty script that they ran through in less than 30 minutes, and that I basically have to proofread from scratch. Then they disappear after a week because their life suddenly got busier... Please. I bet you're also one of those guys who come nagging for faster releases when the last release was less than a week ago.

MasamiAkane
Post #580003
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3:50 am, Dec 10 2012
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Wow. So many bitter readers of scanlation here. I've seen my fair share of horrendous fansubs. I don't think they're exempted from criticism.

On topic, I generally don't mind. If it's really bad then I just stop reading it.



Kirjava
Post #580022 - Reply to (#579993) by cmertb
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7:46 am, Dec 10 2012
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Translation is not a one-to-one mapping. There are many ways of saying all of the phrases I mentioned depending on (1) context and (2) the personality of the character saying the line. Just because manga authors can't be arsed to come up with varied dialogue, doesn't mean translators should follow their example. Seeing the same sentences over and over again makes the reading experience stale and boring. A great script can make even the most clichéd manga interesting and fun to read.

And I never said that people shouldn't scanlate. They can certainly try. I just can't stand it when translators--aspiring and current--don't bother to improve themselves or can't take constructive criticism in stride. A lot of translators have a misguided approach to translating: they think that they can just find "equivalent" words in the target language and call it a day. Translation is a helluva lot more than that. There would be a drastic improvement in the script quality of scanlations if more people understood that.

Anyway, I suppose this is more on the topic of localisation rather than grammar and spelling, so I'll get off my soapbox now.

hollabaloo
Post #580026
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10:07 am, Dec 10 2012
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It annoys the hell out of me. I would prefer it if the scanlation group just held on to the release for a few days longer instead of reading a release with bad spelling and grammar in it.

RattixEmpire
Post #580034
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12:45 pm, Dec 10 2012
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I often find it quite funny, it can be a little confusing, but I either ignore it or am amused by it, I don't see why people should get upset by something so petty, and the English language is so moronic that it is no wonder people make a few mistakes. Even if there are some completely untranslated bits, most manga are so predictable that you don't even need it to be in a language you understand to know what is going on. Kind of like Adam Sandler movies.

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Damnedman
Post #580035 - Reply to (#579994) by fridge
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12:48 pm, Dec 10 2012
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Yeah I could have proofread better but then this is a forum post and I'm studying for finals.

I never said every group was lacking in manpower and neither did I say all scanlation groups are bad. There are definitely groups that do lack manpower (i.e. the one-man or duo scanlators) and awful groups that release works with grammatical/spelling errors consistently (rather not say their names lest another Internet White Knight like you comes along). There are great scanlation groups as well and they have my complete respect, but that doesn't change the fact that there are shoddy groups releasing unreadable/barely-readable products out there.

As for fansubs, there are definitely some awful ones out there (Hadena for one, but that's a given). But I do find most of the best groups' releases to be easy to read and error-free or maybe with a v2's when they do make a serious mistake. That said, one of the biggest problems I noticed with scanlators is that whenever someone criticizes scanlations, there's always one of you who take it personally. I know that you're proud of your work, and I respect the fact that you're willing to spend your own free time making what you love accessible to the general public. But that doesn't mean you should jump at the throats of everyone that say you can do better, since there's always room for improvement.

Lastly, for your personal insults at me, I have never asked any group for a faster release even when the group is a few months behind. I might have even thanked you a few times for your work because I know that people are busy with their lives and free time is a luxury. I am, however, entitled to my opinions, and you being in denial and butthurt because I'm not kissing your ass isn't helping anybody.

inb4 fridge is PROzess on a throwaway.

Last edited by Damnedman at 12:57 pm, Dec 10

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cmertb
Post #580071 - Reply to (#580022) by Kirjava
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9:49 pm, Dec 10 2012
Posts: 159


Quote from Kirjava
Just because manga authors can't be arsed to come up with varied dialogue, doesn't mean translators should follow their example.

This is where I have to disagree strongly. It's not the translator's job to embellish the original. Any translator who does that becomes a co-author, and to me it's not acceptable. I don't want to read such translations, and I refuse to produce them. I suspect that many readers (maybe even majority) would agree with you, but then, I'm not a pro and I cater to my own taste first and foremost.

As for localization, I, together with the vast majority of leechers, strongly reject it. You mistakenly attribute this to lack of desire to improve, when it's in fact a conscious choice for most fan translators. If I read a translated literary work, I want it to be a gateway to another culture. Localization simply narrows that gateway, if it doesn't shut it down entirely. I've read many translated works in my life, but it was only the utterly unlocalized fan translations from Japanese, with all their accompanying translator notes, that made me fall in love with the language and start learning it.

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cmertb
Post #580074 - Reply to (#580035) by Damnedman
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10:09 pm, Dec 10 2012
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Quote
inb4 fridge is PROzess on a throwaway.

You miss.

Your problem is that you turned this discussion into fansubbers vs scanlators. There are sucky fansubbers and there are sucky scanlators. If you have a problem, then name people/groups you disapprove of specifically. If you attack the community in general, it just means that you're telling me that I suck, and that you're telling fridge that he sucks. And that's personal. You don't need PROzess to tell you that.

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Horn
Post #580075
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10:21 pm, Dec 10 2012
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An occasional error is fine; noticeable, but fine. Everybody makes mistakes. I consider myself somewhat anal when it comes to QCing, at least spelling-wise, but I've let some really embarrassing mistakes slip. Consistently, though, I'd really prefer if the spelling and grammar hold good standards. Particularly the grammar - translating the words isn't enough, you gotta make it flow in English too, make it sound natural, and translate -everything- instead of producing some strange half-japanese-half-english hybrid. The point of a translation should surely be to let people who can't read the original language enjoy it just like the natives.

I can be a bit extreme though, I guess. Were it up to me, I could very much do without even the name suffixes (-chan and -kun and whatever the like; I just don't feel that they add as much as people seem to think, and only serve to take up space), but I realize that's not the standard opinion.

deadhoney
Post #580076
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10:42 pm, Dec 10 2012
Posts: 17


It really depends, if the scanlation is nearly perfect in every other aspect I get a bit distracted by grammar or spelling mistakes because I don't expect them. And english is not my mother tongue so I start to wonder if I got it wrong, or them. v_v

But if the scanlation looks well.... like something you need to get used to first anyway, then I don't really bother as long as the given pieces make sense.

deadhoney
Post #580077 - Reply to (#580075) by Horn
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10:46 pm, Dec 10 2012
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I think the importance of those suffixes depends on the story. In some ( well, rather rare ) cases it displays the social standard pretty well or is necessary for jokes. But yeah, in most cases it just takes up space, especially then the "-chan" needs it own row.

killjoy890
Post #580080
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11:54 pm, Dec 10 2012
Posts: 72


to me depends on how bad the grammar mistake is lol.I am a proofreader so i can easily re-word things and ignore them unlike some other people, but some things i get annoyed by (even my own proofs at time) till a point where i am just re-reading the line over and over till it sounds right.

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Jeli
Post #580085 - Reply to (#580077) by deadhoney
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12:18 am, Dec 11 2012
Posts: 16


Although the suffixes wouldn't alter the story entirely if omitted, it shows the level of how familiar characters are between each other, and sometimes even a progression. Like going from a -san suffix to -kun, -chan, or even no suffix at all. That shows that the characters feel closer and would be lost in translation if it was omitted from the getgo.

Damnedman
Post #580086 - Reply to (#580074) by cmertb
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12:29 am, Dec 11 2012
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Quote from cmertb
You miss.

Your problem is that you turned this discussion into fansubbers vs scanlators. There are sucky fansubbers and there are sucky scanlators. If you have a problem, then name people/groups you disapprove of specifically. If you attack the community in general, it just means that you're te ...

Didn't think he was, but it would've been funny.

First of all, I made it clear that there are bad scanlators and bad fansubbers as well as good ones and the ones I am criticizing are the former groups. I didn't actually intend for this to be scanlators vs fansubbers, but you know what? It would be interesting to do a comparison of the two communities. After all, the translation processes are fairly similar even if the rest is different. What I can say for certain is that speedsubs (even ignoring the CR edits) do have a lower %error compared to speed scanlations, Maybe it's because there are more scanlation groups. Maybe it's bad luck on my part. But speed scanlations are very error prone. There's also a lot more complaining about fansub quality than scanlation quality. It seems like the fansubbers have grown used to it while scanlators seem to get a lot more butthurt over such a trifle. If you're doing a good job but is still so insecure that you believe I am hurling personal insults at you. Fine. I am not obligated to convince you otherwise. However, if you are doing a bad job, then you should probably look over your past work and see how you can improve (kudos to Red Hawk Scans for improving their old releases, although I know there are others who have done the same).

TL;DR Take criticisms in stride and don't bitch and moan about it. Even if you do, it's not like that improves your work.

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