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Japan's Explicit Content Bills

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Xeronia
Post #374631
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7:27 am, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 1650


They're stopping underage minors from buying loli/shota/explicit content, not banning the explicit content. That's all right, in my opinion. It's about the same as keeping tobacco from minors. We agree that raping a little kid isn't good, and we agree that smoking isn't good. So it's better that the kids accept it as bad, cause frankly, society would break if child rape were normal. But as an adult, you're empowered with the responsibility to keep a cool head and look at these things. As a kid, you're legally assumed to not be capable of the responsibility. Now don't argue with me on how the law is defined now.

Unlike a lot of other people here, I don't believe that banning one thing will lead to banning everything that is not family friendly. Have some faith people! Do you see any movement that bans porn that has gotten any real attention/consideration from non-fanatical people? No! Most people aren't fanatical. Child porn is traditionally different because you're putting children in harm's way in the process.

Whether loli/shota manga should be banned or not is a different issue. Google, a US based company, may have chosen to stop supporting MU because there's information on child porn. In the US, the sentiment towards child porn is very negative, unlike in some other places, so they decide to ban it from Adsense to avoid complications - that's just how you run a business, it's got nothing to do with them being wimps. I'd say let each country decide. Each culture has its own standards.

But here's my question? Are there kids hurt in the making of child porn? Are artists asking kids to pose nude and seeing how they squirm in person to sexual stimuli? If this is common, then banning it is not unreasonable in my opinion.

fr33noob
Post #374638 - Reply to (#374631) by Xeronia
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0n3 Winged
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9:40 am, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 603


Quote from Xeronia
They're stopping underage minors from buying loli/shota/explicit content, not banning the explicit content. That's all right, in my opinion. It's about the same as keeping tobacco from minors. We agree that raping a little kid isn't good, and we agree that smoking isn't good. So it's better that the kids accept it as bad, cause frankly, society would break if child rape were normal. But as an adult, you're empowered with the responsibility to keep a cool head and look at these things. As a kid, you're legally assumed to not be capable of the responsibility. Now don't argue with me on how the law is defined now.

Unlike a lot of other people here, I don't believe that banning one thing will lead to banning everything that is not family friendly. Have some faith people! Do you see any movement that bans porn that has gotten any real attention/consideration from non-fanatical people? No! Most people aren't fanatical. Child porn is traditionally different because you're putting children in harm's way in the process.

Whether loli/shota manga should be banned or not is a different issue. Google, a US based company, may have chosen to stop supporting MU because there's information on child porn. In the US, the sentiment towards child porn is very negative, unlike in some other places, so they decide to ban it from Adsense to avoid complications - that's just how you run a business, it's got nothing to do with them being wimps. I'd say let each country decide. Each culture has its own standards.

But here's my question? Are there kids hurt in the making of child porn? Are artists asking kids to pose nude and seeing how they squirm in person to sexual stimuli? If this is common, then banning it is not unreasonable in my opinion.



No, the artists do not have kids pose nude. No, they don't hit kids to see their reactions.
No kids are harmed. Child porn involves children...this does not involve any laugh .
They are drawings which are viewed to look like children. There is no abuse. There is no violation. Prohibiting advertisement of this product is acceptable since its nature is "offensive" to our realm.
Artist are being prohibited to draw such things creating a smaller box for the art world. I do not belive we consist of a sociaty filled soley with retards who think that drawings are being abused. It only offends those who belive this fantasy has a real impact on reality. When we can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy then bann it. A small statistc of people who take it seriously is not enough to put a clamp on art. Look at art history and see how much great art has offended people.

They have strong views on it in america about banning this but what exzactly are they banning? Think carefully about it, they are banning drawings...Is this because most of the american population views them to be real therefore they need to stop the abuse?
WHAT purpose does this ban have? We are just creating a mondain sociaty with false belifes.
If it really does get banned, i assume if there is an artist bold enough to use his imagination to draw loli/shota he would be sent to jail because of the law inforced bann. What crime has he commited? What false things has sociaty deemed bannable?

It resembles somthing offensive to those viewing it as reality. If we bann this i see no reason not to bann other illegal looking necessities wich could be potentially viewed as offensive. There are movies that have rape in them, crime, racism and others with alot of axcessive neccesities that can be viewed as offensive in them yet i see no bann eek Why is a manga more serious? laugh

-------------
Here is something to prove my point more. If you are going to Watch this video watch it to the end, i dont wan't any missunderstandings if your going to comment about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThUC1Q7rX4k

Last edited by fr33noob at 10:56 am, Apr 27

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Dr. Love
Post #374644
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10:41 am, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 8872


New article about the issue.

Osaka Designates 8 Boys-Love Manga Mags as 'Harmful'

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ByTheWay
Post #374645
Member

11:01 am, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 32


Considering that everything's been already said... Well, I'm sure happy I'll likely die before they ban all fiction out there. Funny that we're heading in the exact same direction as depicted in many sci-fi books with totalitarian governments in them.

Funny thing is, I don't think I've ever seen a situation improve thanks to repression. I mean, even with all these "horrible" genres in Japanse manga their country is actually one of the safest in the world. Have it ever helped to ban something? I'd say in most cases it, instead, drives more people to do what's "prohibited".

TaoPaiPai
Post #374646
Member

11:50 am, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 967


so
they cant scare us anymore with enviorment issues
or
gain popularity votes from taking care of naturecrap anymore[it was getting a bit boring]

this seems like a perfect and easy target to gain some votes in the upcoming UN/EU/US/U name it/ elections

Kitteh_13
Post #374649 - Reply to (#374621) by John21
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12:49 pm, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 749


Quote from John21
can't the people of japan oppose the bill or something...i mean if the bill is unpopular it will not necessarily be passed. Doesn't the government like take public opinion into account while passing these kinds of bills which will affect a whole lot of people in Japan because well manga is popular in japan isn't it. Because well now they are banning images of minors in sexual positions, having sexual intercouse, nudity etc next they will be banning minors being involved in bloodshed and violence like in Ubel Blatt where the main character just looks like a kid really. Doesn't the Japanese public have any say in this matter? Is it definite that the bill will be passed


To the Japanese their image is everything. To come out and protect something so taboo in public...
Just a little embarrassing. Since image is so important in Japan it's like 100x more embarrassing then if it were in the west. I think the government would take it in to consideration, but the likelihood of that happening is slim to none.


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John21
Post #374650 - Reply to (#374649) by Kitteh_13
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12:54 pm, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 749


Quote from Kitteh_13
Quote from John21
can't the people of japan oppose the bill or something...i mean if the bill is unpopular it will not necessarily be passed. Doesn't the government like take public opinion into account while passing these kinds of bills which will affect a whole lot of people in Japan because well manga is popular in japan isn't it. Because well now they are banning images of minors in sexual positions, having sexual intercouse, nudity etc next they will be banning minors being involved in bloodshed and violence like in Ubel Blatt where the main character just looks like a kid really. Doesn't the Japanese public have any say in this matter? Is it definite that the bill will be passed


To the Japanese their image is everything. To come out and protect something so taboo in public...
Just a little embarrassing. Since image is so important in Japan it's like 100x more embarrassing then if it were in the west. I think the government would take it in to consideration, but the likelihood of that happening is slim to none.


oh ok i see. I sorta understand now. oh well i feel sad for the mangakas and hopefully it will only be the hentai stuff that will be affected.


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HayateSK
Post #374657
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1:47 pm, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 29


I'm torn on the whole issue. Iím from the US and I understand full well why they are trying to ban this stuff. I get it. Even if it wasnít from and foreign country it would still be banned in the US. I'm personally not a fan of loli/shouta when it involves an adult but I also understand thatís another cultures worldview. I would not impose my opinion on them, nor do I think theyíre monsters for creating it. I just donít read it. For Google to decide to not sponsor such images I cant argue with that either. Itís their worldview, we canít change it. The real problem is what happens to the ppl that supply it? Should they be ďpunishedĒ? Manga hosting websites are ripping this stuff down like clockwork now. Just to avoid losing money, but I never thought MU would have that problem. Itís more like an encyclopedia to manga. Why would MU be affected? Is it because MU sometimes lists a scanlator? Idk. The whole issue just seems blown WAY out of proportion. I understand both sides. I got nothing.
no confused dead

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1NICE
Post #374660
Member

2:59 pm, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 7


I personally think it's good. Far too much of this echii crap on anime AND in manga and creators are now more concerned with fan service than a quality anime.

It's because of this new phenomenon that we no longer get shows like Bebop and Trigun, people aren't interested in shows that don't have a crap load of underage babes flashing their panties. Hopefully this new bill will turn the tide around and allow companies to focus on shows that have good characters and good storylines rather than all this echii rubbish.

If you want that kind of stuff, go watch porn.

I don't need to be bumping into all this echii and borderline explicit crap every time I want to watch a decent anime, I'm damned as it already is.

Note that I don't really care about if you guys actually watch this loli-shota stuff at home, just don't go doing around in the real world. I'm saying this stuff has gotten way too popular and now it's impacting on the actual anime/manga industry- companies are focusing more and more on creating these wack job characters instead of actual solid characters.. One peak at RandomC tells you half the stuff on these days in this echii rubbish.

atomsk
Post #374664
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3:10 pm, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 15


i really dont know which animes the above post is watching but i think he is watching anime aimed for echi. really there is not that much echi or shota. really half? half? i think your definiton of echi is off.

1NICE
Post #374668
Member

3:45 pm, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 7


I might have the Oxford dictionary definition of "echii" off but still far too many animes these days have far too much boob flashing/ groping/ "accidents" etc.

Sure, some is fine but for some show it's their own lifeline. And lordy, why the hell would I be watching shows aimed for echi when I don't like echi? I mean, out of all the animes out there to watch (season to season wise) there is a disturbing trend when more and more current season animes are echii or close to that. And hence, less selection of anime that I find interesting. Hell I remember about 5 years most of the animes where these great action/ mystery/ slice of life/ adventure animes or such and I would have a hard time deciding what to watch. Now half of them seems to be about school boys trying to lay a bunch of school girls or school girls as fighters or something as some pathetic excuse for the creators to draw them in compromising positions or skimpy clothing.

It's such a damn shame to see the anime/ manga world decline.

Moirae
Post #374669
Member

4:30 pm, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 23


Let me preface this by saying that I have never in any way been sexually attracted to a child. In fact, I have only ever been attracted to older men. Also, I can't stand most kids and didn't even like them much when I was one myself. However, I do read the occasional shotacon manga. They are mostly yaoi doujinshii titles such as Kuroshisujii, Prince of Tennis or HunterxHunter dj and read adult fanfiction in such categories too.

I don't read them because they are shota, but rather I like yaoi and most of my favorite titles just happen to involve underage characters and I don't care for works which increase the characters age via time skip to make it less "iffy", but don't alter the personality to reflect the age change at all (I guess I feel the mind matters more than the body in these cases).

It irritates me when I see people who read or fangirl for example SasukexNaruto mature fanfiction and then rave on people who like shota. Naruto starts when they are 12; they are very young for the most part and even after the time skip are still underage IIRC. Meaning they like shota, too, even if they won't admit it. There's nothing wrong with it and I doubt all the older fangirls/boys are all pedophiles. (Not even going to go into all those high school manga that are technically shota/loli.)

There can be many different reasons for reading shota/loli that doesn't mean you are a pedophile.I'm 23 now, but some titles I've been following since I was 14 or younger and I've just retained a crush on the characters/couples which happened to have aged much slower than me. Amusingly enough some of the characters were actually older than me when I first starting reading the manga. I wonder if this is the case for many other people too?

Also there's the possibility that the reader is imagining themselves to be in the child's role rather than the adult's. Perhaps they aren't attracted to the kid, but rather want to imagine being the kid (and occassionally the child is actually the agressor in the story). The same goes for rape manga. Let's face it there are a lot of shoujo/yaoi noncon titles out there and while I can't abide rapists (especially as I have family members that have unfortunately suffered through child molestation and rape), I enjoy these titles and have on occassion imagined myself in the girls role. It doesn't mean I want to be raped ever [even if the man looked like he was straight out of a Shinjo Mayu title].

As long as it's not hurting anyone, let people have their fantasies. I don't much like futa, guro, tentancle porn, or bestiality in manga, but, if there's sufficient warning, they don't harm anyone and you can avoid being mentally scarred. Since it's all just pen and paper, no one is being harmed and frankly even the most extreme manga doesn't really make me feel dirty the way RL porn (adult not shota) tends to.

On another note, I find it ironic that the idea of depicting underage characters having sex is so more offensive than having a manga with children who fight and kill from a young age. There are many young teens (and preteens) that are sexually active in RL (what's the average age in the US to lose their virginity 14.6 yrs I think i've read) and that's the norm, but when has assassin-trained/soldier children ever been acceptable in RL?



Unrelated but,
Quote from 1NICE
It's such a damn shame to see the anime/ manga world decline.


I have to say, I agree with this. As much as I like the occasional shoujo smut or yaoi manga, the decline in the number of quality anime has been upsetting and I rarely want to watch or rewatch the newer series. Though how much ecchi in anime has proliferated is up for debate.


Last edited by Moirae at 4:44 pm, Apr 27

atomsk
Post #374672
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Member

4:51 pm, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 15


ince why do you think it is declining? i think the sales for anime and manga has been increasing and not mainly to echi. i think there are what over 80% of manga that is just as good as cowboy bebop, trigun. its the 21century, people are more ... tolerant for lack of a better word.

maybe this is what the manga artists WANT to do. and they couldn't before because of strict laws or because of society. now that society has advanced and is changing they can do what they wants. their not being held back. simply because you do not like echi does not make it bad. i honestly kind of get the feeling that you are somewhat mixing echi and hentai.
i cant think of any anime thats echi that doesn't have a story, or is a comedy. also its anime. ANIME.

You see worse on the TELEVISION which is "real" and parents Leave the T.V.'s to watch there kids. now in america there is hardly any anime on television. i think this whole bill is truly sad. and most of what i want to say has already been said in multiple reply's. i think most of the people who read manga/anime understand that it is cartoon and not reality. yet the people who want the bill passed don't. shouldn't they be looked at lawl?

But why were at it why dont we start banning "echi" in music videos and TV? i mean come on, anyone ever see the music video for stacys mom? or single ladies. how this is ok and how "echi" should be banned is BEYOND me.

XStraider
Post #374675
Member

5:20 pm, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 3


I have been reading this kind of topics and i thinks that the only way we have to fix their brains is to appeal to count for insulting us by calling us rapists and staff. They wont care for words but if we strike their money they may just get it.
No point in speaking with fanatics.

Nisseman
Post #374676
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A bomb!
Member

5:33 pm, Apr 27 2010
Posts: 479


If they ban loli/shota it will go like when they banned alcohol here in finland around 1935 or something like that. Finns never dank as much alcohol as that time.

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