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Radically kind or radically cruel, your choice.

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BlackOrion
Post #545010 - Reply to (#544962) by L@ZyBeRrY
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Not-BlackOrion
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5:03 am, Apr 11 2012
Posts: 761


Quote from L@ZyBeRrY
Yes we do...
i was just reading this and suddenly think of this thread ....LOL
http://readonline.egscans.com/Hells_Kitchen/Chapter_001/14[/u rl]


That's hilarious, i think i found my next reading.

In my case i just love a good Internet discussion, even if it's really meaningless (like all of them).

In reality it's almost impossible to make other people believe what you say on the net, not only because of the "My opinion is better than yours" mind set we all have, but rather because of the "The information that i have is much more reliable than theirs" one. As an example for this specific situation: I studied, not much but some, aliments analysis and learned the things in a way i think to be right, and i, of-course, won't start to believe other things just because of some random person opinion or a quote from some one who could easily ( in my opinion) exaggerate the whole thing in favour of his/her own beliefs.

Last edited by BlackOrion at 6:00 am, Apr 11

RattixEmpire
Post #545011
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A silly pumpkin
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5:03 am, Apr 11 2012
Posts: 170


Exactly my point, we still have to be careful of butterflies, they are incredibly dangerous animals and are not to be trusted. MI5 is concerned at this point that they may have created an alliance with the dragonflies. Wether or not moths are a part of this alliance is not yet clear, however, we warn people everywhere to remain vigilant.



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We work in the dark, we do what we can, we give what we have, out doubt is our passion and our passion is our task, the rest is the madness of art. Henry james
Sakura29
Post #545025
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6:42 am, Apr 11 2012
Posts: 26


If vegans love animals so much, why are they eating all of their food?
If you want to help animals then it's better to have a discussion about helping stop deforestation or something that will actually save animals. Most of the animals humans consume today are grown to be consumed on FARMS. If we started eating plants then, yeah we would certainly all be healthier but when it comes to points about animals, I will not turn vegan.

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RattixEmpire
Post #545046
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A silly pumpkin
Member

9:50 am, Apr 11 2012
Posts: 170


Pounds of beef produced on one acre, 250
Pounds of potatoes produced on one acre, 40 000

Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of wheat, 25
Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of california beef, 5 000

Food is grown specially for animals in the meet, dairy and poultry industry. Though vegans have similar diets, we take nothing away from the animals. If demand for those animals and their products went down, they would not be bred as such fast rates and would not need so much food set aside for them. As humans start to eat more veggies and less meat, less meat is made (less animals are bread) and more fruit and veggies are grown.

Deforestation happens because big industries need more space to accommodate for the growing populations. Allot of food in a vegetarian diet can be grown at home or in communal vegetable patches which would mean that there wouldn't be as much need for the big industries who take away natural habitat.I have even seen communal veggie patches being trialled in the city were I live. Vegan/vegetarianism is actually a way to help counter deforestation and habitat loss.




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We work in the dark, we do what we can, we give what we have, out doubt is our passion and our passion is our task, the rest is the madness of art. Henry james
Scyfon
Post #545048
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Mome Basher
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10:37 am, Apr 11 2012
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SAimNE
Post #545051 - Reply to (#545046) by RattixEmpire
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penguin king
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11:14 am, Apr 11 2012
Posts: 758


Quote from RattixEmpire
Pounds of beef produced on one acre, 250
Pounds of potatoes produced on one acre, 40 000

Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of wheat, 25
Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of california beef, 5 000

Food is grown specially for animals in the meet, dairy and poultry industry. Thoug ...

this is all correct, and with a proper diet of vegies/fruit/grains you get all the nutrients you need.... but iz love eating meat :F

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Most under rated:
Kindan no koi de ikou, kyou kara ore wa!.
m0r l83r... maybe >_>
RattixEmpire
Post #545074
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A silly pumpkin
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3:01 pm, Apr 11 2012
Posts: 170


I love meat
I love meat
I love meat
Like seriously, I really do, me, RattixEmpire, the vegan.
I think meat tastes great, it is convenient and fills you up so easily. I can't describe how much I loved meat. I thought vegetarian was never going to happen, and even when contemplating it, I never committed. If you asked me what I thought of vegan food four months ago, I would say it was just plain weird.

For anyone looking into free range.

Things to look up before deciding wether your meat, dairy and poultry is free range. If you actually know the people, do it yourself or have inspected the places already, this doesn't apply to you.

Call up the free range facilities or go see them, this is an important check list. If they refuse to reply, take it that they don't want to have to answer.

For Poultry

Check what happens to mail chicks,
Check what happens to chickens no longer in their prime egg laying time.
Check wether the chickens still have their beaks.

For Dairy and Meat

Check what happens to cows once they are past their prime milking time.
Check wether these animals have been castrated, branded, dehorned, tail docked or had their teeth ground without anaesthetic.

For Everything

Check how much room the animals have inside and outside on the free range farms and the amount of land that one animal has.
Check that every single animal can comfortably fit in the outside enclosure at once and how much room they will have.
Check that they do have shelter were they can all fit comfortably and have clean bedding (for poultry check for perches.)
Check how many windows there are in the barns
Check how good ventilation is in the barns
Check wether they are fed antibiotics. If they are fed antibiotics find out exactly why and how much.
Make sure that the trips to the slaughter houses (if they do go to the slaughter houses) are humane, don't kill the animals and wether they spend the journey packed tight with hundreds of other animals in their own faces and urine. Many animals do die on the journey to the slaughter house, so be vigilant.
Make sure that the animals aren't conscious when they have their throats slit, because it is often the same slaughter house as the factory farmed animals, they may still be conscious when they are dismembered.
Remember, look up your countries laws about calling things free range and see how much the farms are monitored.
Remember to check the laws on how animals are to be killed (poultry is often missed out, I know it is in Australia)
Dig online to make sure that what you are told is correct and ask around.

If enough people band together and demand truly kind food, then the industry will cater for those demands. Slavery was abolished, women have been given voting rights, African Americans have been given human rights, if enough people band together, things do change. If people get noisy enough, democratic governments will, slowly and unhappily make changes. This isn't really related but there was a party in the Australian Government called the Australian Democrats, their main aim was to
"keep the bastards honest."
This does apply to this topic in relation to the farms and slaughter houses, we need to keep them honest. My signature also has relevance.

"We work in the dark, we do what we can, we give what we have, our doubt is our passion and our passion is our task, the rest is the madness of art." Henry James
This sums up my thoughts entirely. Here are some other great quotes I found.

"Can you really ask what reason Pythagoras had for abstaining from flesh? For my part I rather wonder both by what accident and in what state of soul or mind the first man did so, touched his mouth to gore and brought his lips to the flesh of a dead creature, he who set forth tables of dead, stale bodies and ventured to call food and nourishment the parts that had a little before bellowed and cried, moved and lived. How could his eyes endure the slaughter when throats were slit and hides flayed and limbs torn from limb? How could his nose endure the stench? How was it that the pollution did not turn away his taste, which made contact with the sores of others and sucked juices and serums from mortal wounds?' ~Plutarch" He was a Greek historian and was born A.D 45 even the ancients thought meat eating was strange.

"A veteran USDA meat inspector from Texas describes what he has seen: 'Cattle dragged and choked... knocking 'em four, five, ten times. Every now and then when they're stunned they come back to life, and they're up there agonizing. They're supposed to be re-stunned but sometimes they aren't and they'll go through the skinning process alive. I've worked in four large [slaughterhouses] and a bunch of small ones. They're all the same. If people were to see this, they'd probably feel really bad about it. But in a packing house everybody gets so used to it that it doesn't mean anything.' ~Slaughterhouse 1997"

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. ~Albert Einstein"

"Would you kill your pet dog or cat to eat it? How about an animal you're not emotionally attached to? Is the thought of slaughtering a cow or chicken or pig with your own hands too much to handle? Instead, would hiring a hit-man to do the job give you enough distance from the emotional discomfort? What animal did you put a contract out on for your supper last night? Did you at least make sure that none went to waste and to take a moment to be grateful for its sacrifice? ~Anonymous"

That is it from me and I'm not going to even look at this topic anymore so... Please, if your going for the organic and free range, make sure it is what they say it is. If you aren't going to change, I hope I have made you question your food at the very least. See ya. smile


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We work in the dark, we do what we can, we give what we have, out doubt is our passion and our passion is our task, the rest is the madness of art. Henry james
FlareWarrior
Post #545087
Member

4:18 pm, Apr 11 2012
Posts: 6


You're vegan, good for you! I, however, love meat, have tried to go without and follow these stupid dietary restrictions, and found myself growing weaker every day. I got agitated, moody and just generally pmsed 24/7. Sure, the conditions are bad and those bad people need to be stopped etc., but I don't love animals enough to make myself sick or get a job at animal control. If I go over to a friendís house I don't want to make them spend more money just so I can eat a separate meal. If Iím going to take up a cause, my cause will be for the HUMANS in the SAME situations. Enjoy your beliefs, and please be respectful of others.

melon-ramune-freak
Post #545104 - Reply to (#545046) by RattixEmpire
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5:32 pm, Apr 11 2012
Posts: 259


Quote from RattixEmpire
Pounds of beef produced on one acre, 250
Pounds of potatoes produced on one acre, 40 000

Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of wheat, 25
Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of california beef, 5 000

Food is grown specially for animals in the meet, dairy and poultry industry. Thoug ...


Like I said, why don't you eat insects then? They are typically killed with quick, painless deaths and are significantly cheaper to take care of AND take up less space. Less habitat loss too, so why not?

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Saons
Post #545472 - Reply to (#545104) by melon-ramune-freak
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Manga Eater
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1:20 am, Apr 14 2012
Posts: 442


Quote from melon-ramune-freak
Like I said, why don't you eat insects then? They are typically killed with quick, painless deaths and are significantly cheaper to take care of AND take up less space. Less habitat loss too, so why not?


But insects are icky!

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BlackOrion
Post #545516 - Reply to (#545046) by RattixEmpire
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Not-BlackOrion
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7:11 am, Apr 14 2012
Posts: 761


Quote from RattixEmpire
Pounds of beef produced on one acre, 250
Pounds of potatoes produced on one acre, 40 000

Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of wheat, 25
Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of california beef, 5 000

Food is grown specially for animals in the meet, dairy and poultry industry. Thoug ...



That is really wrong, as i said i live in a country in which 80% of all the money we get comes from selling vegetables (mainly soy), the amount of land required for cultivation, the chance of a drought ruining all of the harvest, the changes of the ecosystem due to cultivation.
In India several thousand of elephants die due to the forest been taken over by Tea cultivation, (that is aimed mainly toward England), do you think all the world could live on vegetables and not affect other animals?

You are ignoring several important matters, is REALLY ridiculous to think that something that works out for a minority would ever work out in the same way for such a large number of people.

and i'm not just saying that cultivation is the main reason for deforestation just because i want to, i saw it, i happen to know this woman who have quite a big land. The cultivation of soy destroys the earth, it impossible to re-use it soon enough for it to be useful in a limited amount of land.

look it out on the net.


Also, I HATE MEAT, it's awful, i don't even understand what people like about it. I'm lactose intolerant so i can't drink normal milk and to make matters worst i seem to be a celiac too (or so it seems, but there is still chance that it's a false alarm). The thing that i love the most is fish, every body should just eat fishes, there are lot of fishes that can reproduce in huge numbers on really shorts amounts of time and there is absolutely no need of cutting a tree for them.


But i don't go around hitting people on the faces and telling them to eat my fish, cos that's fucked up.



Mamsmilk
Post #545539
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9:38 am, Apr 14 2012
Posts: 7713


While food industry does some really awful things to animals,
eating meat as an act is not wrong. Boycotting meat changes nothing.
Eating meat is a thing of the nature.
Dying and getting eaten is only a part of the nature. Wild animals
do not die of age. Neither are apple trees are vegans.
The nature does not divide in animals and plants, that is something
made up by man. There are only things with or without roots.
There are no ethical differences. Mammals are sentimental towards
beings with eyes and faces. Regardless, every being is a part of a chain
and that chain will consume us all, eventually, without a doubt.
Whether we raise them or not, they're bound to die and get eaten.
Sooner or later, it does not matter, it will come eventually.
I eat everything that is good. That's the deal of the whole world.
Even I probably taste good. though I can't promise
anything, as I haven't been grown to be eaten, and I do not find it wrong for
things to eat me, but I will put up a fight and eat whatever plans to eat me.
Strength thrives, every creature knows. You're just insisting to fight something
that is going to eat you and everything you protect. Slowly, but absolutely.
Say no more, as you were born a hypocrite.

Last edited by Mamsmilk at 9:54 am, Apr 14

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FormX
Post #545544
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Member

10:14 am, Apr 14 2012
Posts: 681


Parasite is the manga for you, RattixEmpire.

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Oddwaffle
Post #545581
Member

5:04 pm, Apr 14 2012
Posts: 85


This topic reminds me a lot on my 'how to get my chicken cooked' lesson. My mom taught me how to turn a chicken with feather and everything into a meal. After luring the hapless chicken and caught it, I was to cut a line at its neck. Then I need to hang it up right while it's still alive. It's critical that the chicken heart must be pumping strong to keep the blood flowing. It'll die somewhere between having its blood completely drained or its brain died because of the lack of blood. Then soak the chicken into the hot water for a few seconds and just pull out all the feathers. Now it's a normal chicken you can find in the market. You need to be careful when taking out the feathers cause the smaller ones will stick around. But if you like your chicken skinless then it doesn't matter.

I guess most domestic animals getting slaughtered have the similar thought when they notice they are about to die. "Betrayed!"

That being said, I strongly believe the meat would taste better if your animal was raised good condition. Pork tastes awful if you keep your pigs in a very dirty environment and prevent it from moving. Active and well fed pigs will often give you meats with a decent degree of tenderness and juicy. Chicken is also similar. Free range and active chicken are slightly more tender than chicken living in a tube. Their tight tastes slightly juicier but I can't say the same thing about the breast and wings though.

Of course on the other hand, I LOVE foe gras. The food considered to be too inhumane to be allowed in some US states.

Seijurou
Post #545586
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✯ Sarcastic
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6:08 pm, Apr 14 2012
Posts: 597


Quote from RattixEmpire
Exactly my point, we still have to be careful of butterflies, they are incredibly dangerous animals and are not to be trusted. MI5 is concerned at this point that they may have created an alliance with the dragonflies. Wether or not moths are a part of this alliance is not yet clear, however, we warn people everywhere to remain vigilant.

^This is what not eating ice cream does to you.


Quote from Oddwaffle
This topic reminds me a lot on my 'how to get my chicken cooked' lesson. My mom taught me how to turn a chicken with feather and everything into a meal. After luring the hapless chicken and caught it, I was to cut a line at its neck. Then I need to hang it up right while it's still alive. It's critical that the chicken heart must be pumping strong to keep the blood flowing. It'll die somewhere between having its blood completely drained or its brain died because of the lack of blood. Then soak the chicken into the hot water for a few seconds and just pull out all the feathers. Now it's a normal chicken you can find in the market. You need to be careful when taking out the feathers cause the smaller ones will stick around. But if you like your chicken skinless then it doesn't matter.

^Oh, you are so on her hit list.

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