I agree with ZL11 previously shoujo scanlation groups try to be as polite as possible to other groups but now it seems that no one tries to do that. Groups taking another group's active projects, faling in each other's forum, bad mouthing etc etc.

While I agree that the scanlator DONT own the copyrights to the manga, you cant deny that they were the first ones who started popularizing that series making people know about the author and her works, so is it too much to ask that they are respected and asked about it first?
If the group has been inactive for months then I guess it would be okay, but it would be nice to get an email of somesort that says you wanna follow up where they left off.
shoujo is not like shounen, shounen mangas hv generally long volumes so the original scanlator may not be able to finish the series to the end, Although there are some really long shoujo projects, shoujo are generally short and there are a lot more shoujo mangaka's and projects that have not been taken up, why instead of doing a new project are they deciding to do something which are already being released(I'm talking about active projects by other groups right now) and is still being released? like I said if its been stalled for a long time its okay but its common courtesy to ask,

and for those saying that these are work for fans by fans.. and they're just giving to the masses.. dont you think the original scanlators arent fan too? in most cases if the project is stalled too long then chances are, they will give you permission to continue(again.. even if you dont need to ask permission its nice to ask)how would you feel if you started out a totally new project,that turned out really popular and suddenly a new scan group pops out,with quicker and better releases(taht you're still in process of editing) and arrogantly snubbing your letters and declining a joint or turning down your request that you want to finish doing it as there is only a little more left, you'll feel bad wont you? same thing. and how does it feel if you were just about to finish a chapter but someone beat you to it, You'd feel all your work was pointless would it?.sure you'd say you'd release it anyways.. but then people say why waste your time? we've already read it. and if you say that people will read which version they like well lets just say... majority of leechers will prefer the ones who release faster, except for some cases where they prefer well established group's project and feel a sense of LOYALTY (which some new groups dont feel it necessary)to d/l their release rather then the others

as for continuing where an active group left off.. where some people ask why dont they start over... I am not siding with anyone but thats just plain time wasting. and a waste of resource. so I dunno about this...

I think I've said all I wanted to say.

after this should you choose to answer or not then be my guest since I dont think Id have anything to add to my two cents here

cheers!

i think scanlators doin the same project is fine. reasons:
~the manga is not owned by whoever started scanlating it first
~they all scanlate it because they want to
~mangas can hv many scanlators (bleach, naruto, op...u kno wht i mean)
~if a group scanlates a project, it doesn't mean another groups doesn't want to scanlate it either.

take google for example. If i type in...um...ROCKS, there will definately be about 10 000 websites i can go to that have the same info and yet ppl still keep making new webs about rocks for the love of...rocks. Encarta won't go "its not right! we had this info first!" to Wikipedia. u get what im tryin to say?

the group that did the manga first isn't always the one who popularized the manga. another group doin the same manga may hv found out about the manga somewhere else(maybe in a different language or even in japan)

the first group scanlating the manga may feel bad about some other group doin the same manga, thinking that their efforts went to waste. but the truth is, we all know their efforts didn't go to waste (i bet several people still read them). jus because a group is better/faster than u, u like, give up? NO WAY. If i were the first one to do it, and another group is also doin the same manga, i would either do a joint pro or jus keep doin my work to the very best(u want ppl to read them and for the manga to be known, no?)

the main reason a group scanlates a manga is because they love it and they want ppl to like it. well, so as another group doin the same manga; they love it, and also want others to like it.

i dont see this problem with shounen mangas, so y is there a problem with shoujo mangas? is it becoz most groups scanlating shoujo manga are girls and they don't like other groups doin their project?(im totally making this up..i dunno if thats true or not) And if you think its because the difference in length (as in how long the manga is) then it isn't very fair is it? it doesn't matter if they're short or long mangas, when u like it and want to scanlate it, then scanlate it. In the end, its the ppl's choice anyway.

Well sometimes, 2 or more groups could have been planning to do a certain title on their own. And given issues like "politics" and pride and such, it's a difficult issue, yeah. And sometimes even the larger groups actually decide to do a project even though there've been chapters released for say, 3 to 3 months, and when that happens, sometimes the smaller group has no choice but to drop it because well, some of the larger groups aren't so open to negotiation.

And sometimes, another group decides to do a series because they feel the other group is making a poor job of it.

In the end, it's wasteful all right but actually, why not just stick to the version of the releases you like?

Anyways, my personal take is that two or more versions of a manga is wasteful and that although scanlating consumes a lot of time and effort, none of us own the copyright and trademark to a series, so there's really little point in losing it over a manga.

Because I'm both...

From the leecher's point of view:
It's great, because it produces more competition, and I'll get to read the chapters faster. After all, scanlators don't own the manga, so they have no right to say they own the rights to it. Of course, me being me, any other group other than that of my choice I wouldn't bother to go to. In other words, I don't give a fuck if other scanlation groups decide to pick up other series because I simply won't read them due to fan loyalty *cough cough*. As leechers, we don't really care who's doing what, as long as someone's doing it. In fact, I might even start scanlating it myself just so I can read it faster.

From the scanlator's point of view:
There's an unspoken rule (it's unspoken, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist) that you just don't steal other people's projects. I guess the word 'steal' is pretty harsh, but that's just to get my point across. Personally, I never really see the need of having so many new groups sprouting up and just creating plain shitty scans. If they wanted to see faster releases, why don't they just join the damn group instead of creating their own? Not only will they get guidance from more experienced people, but at least everyone else won't have to join their friggin' forum which will last for what? 6 months? before dying off. It's a complete waste of resources (Refers only to newbies who know nuts about the difficulties in managing a group)

@lime123 I don't think using rocks is a good example, it gets your point across, but you see, the scanlating community isn't that big. If you look around, it's pretty much the same old people plus a few more leechers. That's why there's a need for courtesy (at least that's what I think). Sites that go offline... I think it's understood that they're dead so who exactly are you supposed to ask permission from? But for groups who release the last chapter months ago... I understand from a fan's point of view. You want to read a chapter, but it's taking so friggin' long you might as well go do it yourself. Well, have you ever thought that the group has to cater to every single fan? Of course, it's also their fault for taking on so many projects and not distributing enough time with each of them. But, instead of creating a new group, just join the group and help them release it faster.

What's funny for me is that I see people who a. can't edit; b. can't translate; c. can't get raws; trying to form new groups. I mean, WTF? And then they start recruiting people from everywhere. It's fucking ridiculous. I don't mind new groups being formed, as long as they have some common sense in them besides just idealism. Why do you think people do joints? It's too share bloody resources! Not form new groups and start taking other people's projects.

The way I see it, I'll only approve of new groups taking other people's projects IF they can produce high quality (as high as the older ones) scans, and release it frequently (without dying off midway). Of course, even then I wouldn't bother downloading their stuff, until the group I follow has officially dropped the project. Even as a leecher (before I joined a group since last year) I have never approved of stealing other people's projects. I'm a leecher, but I choose my hosts properly. You know what bad blood does to the body

To answer lime123: it's because girls have more scruples j/k j/k

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As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods,
They kill us for their sport
- King Lear, Shakespeare

haha, i totally agree with that



icic

scanlators have no ownership, just like many said before me, i agree with them, if a scalator was slow/ bad quality..etc i'd go ahead like it or not.

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Well, if you're cool with pissing people off; then okay.
Personally I'd only consider taking over a project if the previous group was dead and buried; not slow.

i think i know the series the first post is talking about.

ah well flaming other groups is just baaaad (honestly i did that, im sorry, im never doing it again). i always strive for a joint cooperation, because two groups are better than one. might be a little confusing, but that's where proper management comes in.

there are a lot of things that can be done instead of just creating a new group when another is slow, like joints, or if you can help - volunteer for their group.
But at the end of the day it really is just being polite, there is nothing stopping other groups from picking up another groups project.

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Can't read >_<

O_O; interesting takes.

...lol. actually, i'm in a scanlating group and uhh... haha. I would actually prefer it if someone else were doing a better job and scanlating faster. that would raise the competition, and we'd work harder. (either that or drop out of existence)... but mostly, it's because I want to see this manga get even more popularized. haha...

so, wow... hum... i guess to me, there's really no etiquette necessary if you're just wanting to promote the manga that you love so much. ^_^

who cares about the name of the scanlating group that's out there..? it's not like we'll ever be less anonymous (we'd get busted for legal reasons, too. T_T)... so, the pride that some scanlating groups think they have is all nonexistent.

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-Max

just adding another argument:
the reason i really appreciate some scangroups, beside that they scanlate the stuff, is that they discover the good manga's. so in a way, and in my opinion, those groups have "discovery rights".

and etiquette has nothing to do with ownership or copyrights;

like pirates of the cari-bean's "the code"

well, slow is all relative. If you're a rabid fan, maybe releases 2 weeks apart may be considered "slow". Personally, I've seen a scanlating group that releases one every 2 months, and now hasn't released for 4 months.... and they get mad if you steal their project.

There has to be some limit... I think scanlating groups should be able to take others' projects if they're going extremely slow. Like... I don't know about most people, but I don't want to wait more than the 4 months I've already waited for Gakuen Alice 19 for example... not to bash the other group; but it really is true.

Joint projects are always good too. if you're too busy, you can team up for faster releases. I like that idea

I'll prolly get a lot of hate for this, but here is my opinion:

Anyone who wants to scanlate anything has the right to do so. If they want to start at ch. 1 or ch. 100 really up to them since they do the work anyway. which brings me to the next point. As long as the group is doing their own work scans/trans/etc. they should be able to post it. It should be up to the fan which they want to read. It gives the fan a choice to read the scan at whatever quality they want. I have had to read chapters in the past where I can tell that the group was not feeling the work that week and left phrases out (or entire pages) and I just had to get over it because no one else wanted to scanlate that series. If more groups are doing the same projects, then we will see a rise in quality as well as faster turn aound because te groups will be in competition. And naturally groups that arent making the grade will ot get support and will go away eventually anyway.

That's my two cents....

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Life is tough......but it's tougher if you're stupid.

@ lake

That makes a whole bunch of sense. Thanks for clarifying the etiquette part. I guess since I'm pretty new to this, I haven't heard of this "unspoken rule"

Oh, I think I know another reason why people usually don't like to do joint projects... it's because sometimes, you just can't get along with some people. Like it or not, there will be rude people out there... and although you may want to offer your help, you may not ever get the "job" in helping that scanlating group. Thus, I think that's why the majority of scanlating groups are created -- they were just rejected from helping those already there.

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-Max