I don't mind atheists, but I'd rather they didn't tell me or at least didn't backsass when I use Jesus as a historical figure in Scattergories.

I'm an Agnostic atheist, but out of the options is "I am an atheist, but not a fanatic. I don't try to persuade other people. I respect religion, and the people that follow it."

I chose the 3rd option. I'm not gonna get into the huge conversation on here (*cough Potential Flame War *cough*), but I'll just say that I can see why atheists don't believe. M y mom's Catholic and my dad's an atheist, so I have to hear about it all the time when something about religion comes up.

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I believe there must be something out there, something beyond our understanding... I choose to believe there is "something" after dead, because the alternative is nothingness, I choose to believe something is listening my prayers/complains.

I don't give it a gender or a name, is just a necessity of mine, a necessity to keep my sanity...

night...

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The flowchart of science is quite detailed, sometimes, i mean many times, it almost impossible to perform an experiment on what we are researching, that s why we need "thought experiments". These are only for experts in reasoning and logical thinking, though.
Of course, if you have been through situations when, one observation has many ways of interpretation,you will see that the science chart still apply for branches, but we will need a certain amount of faith to choose one for ourselves, at that time. But never mind, those charts are accurate on a basic level of science, and religion...

Definitely, not all those who believe in God would follow a typical "chart of faith", because it seems "so contradict" to what they believe in lol, or else our science will be very "different" from today. I suppose, the difference in my view and others is the definition of the Almighty in religious concepts. God, in what people with scientific thinking believe in,is the embodiment of the incomprehensibility of this world,that is why we will never understand the universe completely ( you can think that we can, the time we need is an eternity) For those who try to reach the boundary, their notion about God can be very different, and can be CHANGED. That s what i said from the previous post. However, people who disagree with religion don't seem to understand that, if you put your belief in the incomprehensibility of the world,it is impossible to ignore the evidence of reality.
And an other important thing, is, all above are concepts with no regard to an ethical standard, (like relativity can not be applied to moral value) so don't be surprise if there are people believe in God scientifically but not ethically.
Perhaps you think all the ones who believe in God would have the concept similar to the Bible, sorry, there s a difference here, i believe in God, not the Bible or any thing similar to it. (weird? )

That is to say, this thread is getting so intensive,lol, come on,one the most fundamental principles of philosophy is the coexistence of contradict aspects in an object, it s like when we ask what is light actually, wave or particle ? science and religion at the same time is possible,i think.

You can disrespect the bad influence of religion, just don't use those aspects to identify religion.
abusing Einstein much ? that s a quote from myself maybe i will stop abusing his quotes, when i finish general relativity
(sorry for grammar mistakes, i m in a hurry)

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Should I post in a thread about atheism and give my own two cents? Why Not!!!

Believing in God really takes two different forms: Faith and Religion.

Faith is an individual belief of a supernatural deity or deities, usually inherited from family teachings as a young child.

Religion is an individual belief of a supernatural deity or deities, usually inherited from cultural origins and societal indoctrination.

I hate religion because it is the greatest (and easiest) way to manipulate a group of people to do the will of a charismatic (or power hungry) individual. People who are ultra religious have no real faith, they just believe what they are told by religious power trippers.

I have spoken with several people from different religious backgrounds (Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, and Muslim) and asked them how they felt about atheists. Christians hate atheists more than they hate Jews!

My Jewish friend said he would rather be in a room with a thousand atheists than be with a single Christian. My Muslim classmate considers atheists to have high morals.

My position? Strong atheist. God doesn't exist; he never did. Enjoy your life to its limit, solve your own problems without relying on prayer, and make the world a better place before you leave it.




I loved that movie. He should have made it clear that asking questions about religion is considered blasphemy. Believe without question, or else.

Last edited by blakraven66 at 11:40 pm, Aug 26 2009

Atheism in itself is a religion.. one could say that accepting there is no God is also a faith decision. You accept through faith and believe that there is no God. I personally believe it takes more faith to believe that there is no creator then it takes to believe in one. Drawing logical conclusions makes it clear there is a god. The theory of evolution is extremely faulty and definitely takes "Faith" to accept. There is no way creatures could have evolved into what they are today, the system is just so complex its impossible it could be evolved since it can't even progress if it was without such organisms, cells, etc. to begin with. No matter how minuscule you reduce the starting organism that is the "progenitor" of the evolved creatures today it still will need to have come from something. Plus its impossible to say everything started with a big bang. It is proper physics to understand that something can't just spontaneously start, who initiated the big bang? if so it would have to be some sort of being... what created anything? When someone seeks science with an open mind and looks at all scientific evidence with a totally objective, impartial standpoint they will only come to the conclusion of an intelligent creator. Believing the earth was an accident and that its conditions produced life is even worse than saying that pieces wood and metal were laying around then an explosion happened and some of the pieces created a nice and comfy wooden rocking chair.

The movie, Religious gives a prime example of those who really give Christianity and theists a bad name. He really asked only those who couldn't give a good answer, If you were to ask someone properly grounded in their beliefs and properly educated then that person could give an astounding defense.

I'll do my best to be that person...

Last edited by Azari02 at 11:59 pm, Aug 26 2009

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Here's a fun quote. A bit silly but I like it.

"Atheism is a religion just as much as is not believing in Santa Claus, or just as much as not collecting stamps is a hobby."

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Tokyo Illusion

First of all there is viable evidence that Santa Claus (who you mean anyway) does not exist. There is no deductive evidence that evolution exists or any possible way things exist without a designer. If you look at it from a logical and "Scientic" standpoint then one should understand that both the theory of creaton and the theory of evolution (or any theory with an atheistic paradigm) are at the LEAST on equal grounds, evidence wise (which is my whole point... it requires faith to accept). Your analogy is faulty.

Saying not collecting stamps is a hobby also doesn't prove anything.A hobby is denotative as a fun recreational activity. Most people don't find it recreational to no collect stamps. However, you could say not collecting stamps is a habit, or not collecting stamps is an action. In the same sense not making a choice is essentially making a choice, your making a choice not to choose. The word "Religion" in today's sense (ussually referring to belief in a supernatural being) might be wrong to associate with atheism but the principle behind my statement is still true, that it is the same as accepting something by faith and believing in some sort of power. What can one describe as supernatural anyway? supernatural only refers to what is out of the usual science and physics of the world. If you say that religion is believing in something supernatural your only going against the premise the the religion is in place to formulate an idea as to WHY the science and physics of the world are the way they are. If you understand that then saying a religion is "supernatural" or "out of proper science" is only using the word arbitrarily. Its circular thinking. Atheism is not the belief in supernatural powers since one cannot denounce a proposition using the proposition's own conclusion and essence.

To sum it all up using the logic that atheism is not a faith (or religion) because faith/religion requires to believe in the supernatural is attempting to transcend the entire foundation for the definition of what is supernatural since religion tries to explain what is normal it is by no means something that goes against what is normal. (I wish i could make this logic more visible but I have a hard time wording the logic and concept). Believing religion cannot be true because its supernatural is sophistry. Believing in a creator can be true because it is a reasonable theory. Atheism attempts to define that there is no creator and therefore either say one cannot know how everything came to be or they have their own analogies. Its the same principle as earlier, not making a choice is making a choice, but this idea is more concrete because atheism is also choosing is own theory of how things came to be.

Last edited by Azari02 at 12:28 am, Aug 27 2009

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If a person is properly educated, is it even possible for them to be religious? Of course I'm not saying that those of us that don't believe in a higher being are properly educated, either. There are people that are very, very well educated when it comes to history, religion and the like, but they still believe and are religious. Stubborn person? Blind faith...Or just a gut feeling? If that's the case, what they say doesn't matter, because despite evidence, and the millions of theories, they have such a strong 'faith' that nothing can move them. No help when you're trying to defend your beliefs.


I don't think it's faith that makes me disbelieve, but my lack of faith in the first place. Atheism isn't a religion, it's not satanism, you know. There's a huge difference between faith and religion, anyway. Huge.

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to all those who say they hate religion please know that there is a difference between religion and having belief. religion is organized and political. where as belief is well just that a belief, just as atheists believe that there is no God those who have some type of belief believe that there is a God, goddess, energy, or spaghetti monster.

as for me I am a Christian in belief alone. i believe there is a God and that Jesus was his son, or if you really want to get into it, the presence of God himself on Earth. I believe in the views and teachings of Jesus and that he died for us. however when it comes to politics i believe that your religion should not influence your decisions. instead of doing what is right for your religion you shpould be doing what is right for the people and what would make your country and people stronger, healthier, and happier.

i respect atheists and all other religions and yes i do agree that atheism IS a belief since you believe there is no God, even if you say you dont know yet there is no proof you still believe there is no God. dictionary.com defines atheism as "the doctrine or belief that there is no God." i even enjoy listening to atheists and other people of different beliefs reasons for believe and what they believe. as long as they listen to my reasons and beliefs

i would go further but this is long enough dont you think? ill leave you with this

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
- Albert Einstein

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It's true that we don't know what we've got until we lose it, but it's also true that we don't know what we've been missing until it arrives.

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

Atheism is not a religion. There is no code of rules or dogmatic beliefs to adhere to if you want to be an atheist.

By the way, quit listening to Kent Hovind, Ken Ham, or Ben Stein talk about evolution. Do your own research or consult a professor of biology (or even a student!)



Malfunction. You are basing this statement on a strawman argument platform. Do some research on Big Bang Cosmology or consult an Astronomy professor (or a student!)



Okay, here we go!

1. If evolution is false, then explain how complex life forms are fossilized in higher layers of strata, while simpler life forms are fossilized in lower levels of strata?

2. If the Sun was created on the fourth day, does that imply Geo centrism?

3. Explain how the Bible depicts polytheism in the old testament

4. Explain the origin of Yahweh

5. Explain how an all loving god can condone genocide, rape, slavery, polygamy, and misogyny.

I could say the exact same thing about an athiest... your going off the presupposition that there is evidence to disprove creationism.. I could say atheist scientists ignore the (what I know but others don't consider) evidence for a creator and stubbornly keep the position there is no god.



When can someone not believe in something. you said yourself disbelief drives you into believing something else. I'm not saying Atheism is satanism (I know you know this), I am saying it is a faith standpoint. It IS choosing to BELIEVE in something


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What evidence is there that God exists? If we have free will, society, science to explain the unexplainable, and God is invisible, what use is God? Why does a higher being need to exist, anyway? It doesn't even matter if he does or not and we will never know "for sure," because even if the evidence keeps adding up, there will always be those that have faith that somewhere God exists. Which means it will never be and never can be explained because God only exists because people have faith.


Again, Atheism is not a religion. Faith /=/ Religion
Just because I believe or don't believe in something doesn't mean I am religious or not religious. If I did believe in God, I would have faith. If I believe in a higher being(s), worshiped them, and followed the rules of my religion, I would then be religious, but it's just word play at this point. It seems like such a thing would be obvious.

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Okay, I'm truly sorry but I can't properly defend myself since I myself am not educated enough for some questions (I am only in highschool) but I will try my best.

1. what do you describe as these simpler life forms? be more specific, and we do not deny micro evolution. Also, you're ignoring the fact that there is no link between any of the so called chain of creatures

2. how would that ever imply geocentrism? are you saying that everything that was created prior to the fourth day (being NO LIFE FORMS) could simply not have existed because of the sun? and give me a reference that people in ancient times (prior to the Ptolemaic period) didnt believe in geocentrism because you OBVIOUSLY imply that

3. The Bible doesn't depict polytheism in the old testament but rather discourages it, especially in the book of Jeremiah. If you are referring to the story of when Abraham was asked by God to sacrifice Isaac this example is faulty because God was testing Abraham's faith and in conclusion God stopped Abraham before Isaac was killed. Bible believers don't believe in polytheism so the Bible won't have polytheism in it, however the Bible does refer to gods in the sense of lesser evil spiritual beings, or if you're talking about the deistic view of the old testament and new testament god which conservative Christians don't believe in .

4. I dont fully understand what your asking however if you are trying to ask "when did he come into existence" we understand and accept God has always existed. we as creation cannot comprehend the idea of infinity since we ourselves did have a start point, unlike God. what does the origins of yahweh have to do with christianity? its simply a term used and yes it has different meanings in different religions, most notably religions OTHER than conservative christianity. if you're expecting me to say YHWH, i'm not because i'm not part of judaism apparently.

5. It is man's fault that we sinned and sin entered the world. All things will come to past to only glorify God more, we understand that Jesus came to redeem us from eternal damnation however God is a just God and will many times execute his judgment. God loves us which is why he sent Jesus your saying that it is God's fault for not stepping in and stopping what we already deserve, furthermore....

from my friend: An all loving God is an extreme misrepresentation of both his nature and the term love. Firstly, culture is STRONGLY attached to what one's morals, so what one person may see as extreme disfiguration of the body or constant sexual promiscuity may be a simple part of culture. This may seem superfluous and obvious but what you may see as loving, someone else may easily see as hate, so your definition of all loving seems to say it needs to cater to YOUR culture-related definition, which is obviously ridiculous. the definition christians refer to only relates to God's nature. God's nature is pure justice. Now, he gave his son's life to atone for our sins which is a major sacrifice to pay for all the sin in the world, which is love. He could have sent everyone to hell and that would have been justice, but allowing us to be in heaven is the greatest love he could show as we really deserve nothing.

As you may think that God's nature of justice may be extremely perverted and what not, he can only settle for what is in his nature, meaning, he wants to be FULLY just, so why would he not?

take away the presumption of evolution and the world running on its own and just imagine a creator who knows and planned EVERY atom movement at every point in time, how can we even being to feel as if we have a right to challenge him even after he sent his son to die for us

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