Predictability --> boredom. It's basically "been there, done that" and it's also reflective of how much effort and time the mangaka puts into creating the story/characters/setting/whatever. If the mangaka injects 0% of creativity into it, I personally would notice it and believe that the mangaka doesn't give a damn; therefore, I don't give a damn about the manga and don't take it as a serious piece of work (serious as in the mangaka cares for it, not serious as in the content itself).
Honestly, I hate mangaka who don't bother researching about what they're writing about; I hate mangaka who don't make the effort to learn how to draw properly; and I hate mangaka who put no thought into creating a sustainable, original, and interesting manga. They don't take their work seriously? Then I won't recognize it as a serious piece of work -- just some shit they threw together.
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What's wrong with Shoujo Cliches?
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Member
1:03 pm, Dec 13 2010
Posts: 21
Member
5:17 pm, Jan 17 2011
Posts: 47
Quote from PansyWansyLinsy
It's not the cliches that bother me, or else why continue reading shoujo at all? How much originality and creativity can you inject into a medium and subject that's as saturated as shoujo without alienating your demographic? The only manga-ka that I know of who can do this with success is Ai Yazawa.
Besides, I read shoujo because I like the cliches. I like the love triangles, the drama, the unrealistic devotion these characters seem to have for one another. It's not the lack of originality that bothers me most, it's the execution. Some manga-kas have it, some don't. Some know the ingredients for making a good shoujo, and they're good at kind of mixing it together, but at the end of the day, they can't seem to get the formula right.
In most cases, it's simply because the manga-ka is better at some things than others - like drawing. Look at the sustained popularity of mediocre work like Vampire Knight, The Bride of the Water God, or Goong. What they lack in terms of plot, coherence, pacing, character depth, they make up in the art department, and that is one of the main reasons why they continue to stay popular.
A lot of people fall into the traps of becoming obsessed with mediocrity simply because these shoujos contain elements that rate highly with most readers. Art, bishonens, vampires (
), taboo subjects, and smut.
Urgh, I guess I kind of ran off topic, but what I'm getting at is that cliches are all right with proper execution. You can watch a romantic comedy that has all the same jokes with the expected outcomes and still enjoy it if it's done right.
Besides, I read shoujo because I like the cliches. I like the love triangles, the drama, the unrealistic devotion these characters seem to have for one another. It's not the lack of originality that bothers me most, it's the execution. Some manga-kas have it, some don't. Some know the ingredients for making a good shoujo, and they're good at kind of mixing it together, but at the end of the day, they can't seem to get the formula right.
In most cases, it's simply because the manga-ka is better at some things than others - like drawing. Look at the sustained popularity of mediocre work like Vampire Knight, The Bride of the Water God, or Goong. What they lack in terms of plot, coherence, pacing, character depth, they make up in the art department, and that is one of the main reasons why they continue to stay popular.
A lot of people fall into the traps of becoming obsessed with mediocrity simply because these shoujos contain elements that rate highly with most readers. Art, bishonens, vampires (
), taboo subjects, and smut. Urgh, I guess I kind of ran off topic, but what I'm getting at is that cliches are all right with proper execution. You can watch a romantic comedy that has all the same jokes with the expected outcomes and still enjoy it if it's done right.
THIS.
-worship-
I read shoujos for fun and relaxation, not to obsess over it like other fandoms.
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Member
9:03 pm, Mar 19 2011
Posts: 12
I don't really mind so much either if there are cliches in a shoujo. I DO, however, like there to be some originality in the storyline. I think people (including myself) get tired of seeing the same things over and over again..it's like you're reading the same story, but the characters just have different names. So if the whole thing is one big cliche, it's not really worth reading imo.
Member
9:26 pm, Mar 20 2011
Posts: 46
9:26 pm, Mar 20 2011
Posts: 46
I read shoujo for fun too, and while i hate some cliches, other cliches are fine.
I wrote out some cliches that i hate in the other thread.
Some cliches that i like is the perfect guy, of course we always want a perfect guy as your boyfriend. But when it was thrown with an oblivious girl in a package (special a, maid sama etc etc that i don't read) it annoy the hell out of me.
Another cliches maybe childhood friends and new hot bishies. Well everybody knows that the childhood friends always lost in the end. But did you give up on Skip Beat?
Some other cliches i read for amusement, but sadly nowdays i never finished any title any more. It just pure pain in the ass to read shoujo. I read Skip Beat though and some other manhwa titles (HMR,HYR for amusement) They are very cliche but since all the stories almost the same and predictable, and the main girl always crush the third party girl that made it so much fun to read.
I wrote out some cliches that i hate in the other thread.
Some cliches that i like is the perfect guy, of course we always want a perfect guy as your boyfriend. But when it was thrown with an oblivious girl in a package (special a, maid sama etc etc that i don't read) it annoy the hell out of me.
Another cliches maybe childhood friends and new hot bishies. Well everybody knows that the childhood friends always lost in the end. But did you give up on Skip Beat?
Some other cliches i read for amusement, but sadly nowdays i never finished any title any more. It just pure pain in the ass to read shoujo. I read Skip Beat though and some other manhwa titles (HMR,HYR for amusement) They are very cliche but since all the stories almost the same and predictable, and the main girl always crush the third party girl that made it so much fun to read.
Member9:41 pm, Mar 20 2011
Posts: 2050
I think they pretty much become annoying and repetitive after seeing them so many times. Unless the author manages to somehow make the cliche happen in a unique/surprising way, I generally don't like them.
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Member
11:00 pm, Mar 22 2011
Posts: 366
Well, there are only certain cliches that I find incredibly annoying. Most time I'm able to look past other ones. I appreciate the corniness that clowery shoujo brings to the table, but then there are just some that take old tropes and run them into the ground. *couch*Hana ni Nare*cough*
I remember reading a story that almost had every single shoujo trick jammed into 3 or 4 chapters (forget the nae but I'll probably stumble across it later)
And if you guys think shoujo is bad, then you haven't read very many shounen romance/harem.
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LOOK AT MY WITTY SIG!!11!!!!11
I remember reading a story that almost had every single shoujo trick jammed into 3 or 4 chapters (forget the nae but I'll probably stumble across it later)
And if you guys think shoujo is bad, then you haven't read very many shounen romance/harem.
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LOOK AT MY WITTY SIG!!11!!!!11
Member
12:12 am, Mar 23 2011
Posts: 51
You love some, you hate some.
I personally like knowing what to expect in a manga. Knowing how the story's gonna end can be fun. The good part is reading to see what leads up to it. If it wasn't, we wouldn't read shoujo. But some cliches just get on my nerves! Like how the male characters still don't realize they need to stay the hell away from the evil bitchy female character that's trying to trap him. And that leads to missunderstandings with the female lead and a bunch of tears, while I'm just standing there like "DUDE DON'T YOU REALIZE YOU NEED TO STAY AWAY FROM THAT CHICK CAUSE SHE'S BAD NEWS!" But I love when you start a series and the female and male lead hate each other, and you just know they're gonna end up together. Or they "accidentally" get locked in together somewhere, and you know they're gonna kiss. Ones like those are priceless.
But the main point is this: You can usually tell what kind of cliche's to expect just by reading the summary. So don't read it and then complain. Better yet, read the comments on the series. That's how I stay away from the annoying ones.
All stories these days have cliches. I don't care what genre it is. Some are good and some get on your nerves.
I personally like knowing what to expect in a manga. Knowing how the story's gonna end can be fun. The good part is reading to see what leads up to it. If it wasn't, we wouldn't read shoujo. But some cliches just get on my nerves! Like how the male characters still don't realize they need to stay the hell away from the evil bitchy female character that's trying to trap him. And that leads to missunderstandings with the female lead and a bunch of tears, while I'm just standing there like "DUDE DON'T YOU REALIZE YOU NEED TO STAY AWAY FROM THAT CHICK CAUSE SHE'S BAD NEWS!" But I love when you start a series and the female and male lead hate each other, and you just know they're gonna end up together. Or they "accidentally" get locked in together somewhere, and you know they're gonna kiss. Ones like those are priceless.
But the main point is this: You can usually tell what kind of cliche's to expect just by reading the summary. So don't read it and then complain. Better yet, read the comments on the series. That's how I stay away from the annoying ones.
All stories these days have cliches. I don't care what genre it is. Some are good and some get on your nerves.
Member
8:37 am, May 7 2011
Posts: 33
Cliches are okay with me. The plot can be general BUT the characters can't. I hate cliched shoujo characters. I really dislike Honey x Honey Drops because of the very weak female lead. Whine CRY Whine-->so annoying I'm offended by that stupid girl who doesn't know how to defend herself from unwanted advances. Here are general shoujo cliches:
1.love at first site
2.likes da popular guy/ prince of school/bad boy ect.
3.probably can't cook
4.most likely isn't that smart academically
5.no street smarts/naive
6. engrossed with romance
7. very weak to bishies
8. weak to bullying
9. love letter
10. damsel in distress
I ABSOLUTELY HATE weak females. SO ANNOYING!! My opinion is if you are not willing to help yourself don't expect help from others.
I'm offended by that stupid girl who doesn't know how to defend herself from unwanted advances. Here are general shoujo cliches: 1.love at first site
2.likes da popular guy/ prince of school/bad boy ect.
3.probably can't cook
4.most likely isn't that smart academically
5.no street smarts/naive
6. engrossed with romance
7. very weak to bishies
8. weak to bullying
9. love letter
10. damsel in distress
I ABSOLUTELY HATE weak females. SO ANNOYING!! My opinion is if you are not willing to help yourself don't expect help from others.
Member
9:40 am, May 7 2011
Posts: 245
I absolutely agree with PansyWansyLinsy up there.
In my opinion, cliches are just unavoidable. Though there are mangas with a really distinctive and unique plots, they will all come to waste without a proper presentation by the mangaka. Some mangas can also be irresistible, in spite of containing overused cliches. It's not just the ideas or intricate plots which counts, but also how the mangaka presents the overall story. And seriously, how complicated can you make a shoujo manga? (Though Fruits Basket is a different story)
Also, what readers value in a manga differs from one person to another. Some people are okay with mangas as long as the art is good and doesn't care a thing whether there's even a plot it there. Some people are more concerned in the development of the plot and doesn't give a damn about art. For me, in shoujo manga, it's how the mangaka can evoke emotions out of you. How they can make you feel touched, feel irritated, feel furious and feel happy along with the story. It's how they pull you into the story and make you feel what the character feels.
So yeah. I can understand how people are tired with cliched stories, I myself get annoyed a lot with the typical overly-cheerful and the oh-so-determined heroine or those recurring cliched situations. You just have to find an author which brings out the best of Shoujo manga: the feeling of fluffiness after reading
In my opinion, cliches are just unavoidable. Though there are mangas with a really distinctive and unique plots, they will all come to waste without a proper presentation by the mangaka. Some mangas can also be irresistible, in spite of containing overused cliches. It's not just the ideas or intricate plots which counts, but also how the mangaka presents the overall story. And seriously, how complicated can you make a shoujo manga? (Though Fruits Basket is a different story)
Also, what readers value in a manga differs from one person to another. Some people are okay with mangas as long as the art is good and doesn't care a thing whether there's even a plot it there. Some people are more concerned in the development of the plot and doesn't give a damn about art. For me, in shoujo manga, it's how the mangaka can evoke emotions out of you. How they can make you feel touched, feel irritated, feel furious and feel happy along with the story. It's how they pull you into the story and make you feel what the character feels.
So yeah. I can understand how people are tired with cliched stories, I myself get annoyed a lot with the typical overly-cheerful and the oh-so-determined heroine or those recurring cliched situations. You just have to find an author which brings out the best of Shoujo manga: the feeling of fluffiness after reading
Member
10:56 am, May 7 2011
Posts: 33
Awww fbunawan
that was so well put
i feel so happy~~~
100% AGREES
that was so well put
i feel so happy~~~
100% AGREES
Member
11:27 am, May 7 2011
Posts: 471
im fine with cliches most of the time, but sometimes, the whole manga is a cliche with no speck of creativity. like they didnt even try to try to care. like a girl who instantly falls in love with some duche and then stuff happens and then the have a wedding scene with a bunch of crying lame side characters. its just messed up how some people keep using the WORST cliches to make a shoujo. a stupid girl chooses the dick over her sweet childhood friend she "used to" be in love with. its really agitating for me. im all for creativity, so it makes me mad when people dont even try. i can only read a shoujo cliche total ( meaning a manga that is a cliche itself ) if the story is acceptable, the main isnt a stupid crying girl, the person she ends up with is okay, and has good art. not acceptable art, im talking about some BEAUTIFUL ART. i have high standards. thats why i read shounen.
Member
1:14 pm, May 7 2011
Posts: 112
1:14 pm, May 7 2011
Posts: 112
Honestly, I'm fine with a few cliches, but when every little plot development and twist is used in one manga, it's too much. I agree with it's hard to be original in the shojo manga and still be a successful shojo. You try writing a successful story of romance with out using cliches. Some of these cliches are what pull at girl's heartstrings and make them come back for more.
Member
9:24 pm, May 21 2011
Posts: 70
I don't hate them. I just....get bored of them.
I do absolutely hate it when an author combines cheesiness with cliches though *shudder*.
I do absolutely hate it when an author combines cheesiness with cliches though *shudder*.
alias #sexy. <3
Member
4:44 am, May 31 2011
Posts: 19
it depends on the cliche, of course...
majority of shoujo mangas are always "oh-i'm-a-girl-with-low-self-esteem-or-has-absolutely -no-experience-in-love blah blah"
which falls in love with the oh-so-hot-and-handsome-guy. duh.
(yup like someone mentioned Honey x Honey Drops. Getting to that, it really makes me wonder how it could have survived 8 volumes. geh.)
But i believe it depends on how the story is directed as the manga goes along.
Really, i didn't mind stories like Moe Kare!! because it was really heart-wrenching and sweet at some moments. Even though it was packed with cliches.
But i simply cannot tolerate stuff like falling in love with the dominating guy who literally rapes the girl all the time while she weakly or meekly says 'no! no!' and still gets wet or all aroused.
Hint hint, Mayu Shinjo's Haou Airen & Love Celeb.
I actually made it through Love Celeb under some state of weird mind. I couldn't make it through Haou Airen though. ^_^
NO. NOOOOOOOOOOO.
Oh back to Honey x Honey Drops. Painful. Paaaaainful. Are shojo manga readers that desperate nowadays? It went on for 8 volumes!
The heroine cries perhaps every chapter.
WEAK.
Bitches appear randomly out of nowhere.
The guy's personality just sucks.
There's a man-bitch too.
Well i stopped reading it anyway but i do know the ending.
FLOWERY-WHITEY FLOWERS MARRIAGE! <3
I still think it's pretty sad. Why do these manga exist? Because readers eat it up.
Honestly I wouldn't mind a strong heroine. Oh there are many of those in shoujo manga. In the first chapters of the shoujo mangas. from then on, no more.
Testimonial 1: Love Celeb's female lead slaps the male lead in maybe, within the first 20 pages? The guy takes an interest in her, and from then on, GONE.
Testimonial 2: Honey x Honey Drops Man... do i really have to explain this one?
Plot development. Sucky for many shoujo manga. I don't really need to elaborate on this. Read Love Celeb, Kyou, Koi Wo Hajimemasu, and Honey x Honey Drops (of course!!) to know more. Or perhaps any of Shinjo Mayu's mangas. <3
I can't really think of anything else, as these mangas are the most prominent in my head right now.
.....Oh read Akuma na Eros TOO!!!
EDIT: Can not every girl in the history of shoujo manga blush everytime there is skin contact? IT IS JUST VERY SO ANNOYING. I wish i would find a girl who wouldn't do that. Please PM me should you find one shoujo manga like that (with romance!)
Thanks!
________________
and i know i'm going to like this a lot. <3
^ manga: Dengeki Daisy.
I am immensely sexy. I live in a sexy house with my sexy family. My alias is #sexy. I have a sexy computer.
I think Freddie Mercury is so sexy!!
majority of shoujo mangas are always "oh-i'm-a-girl-with-low-self-esteem-or-has-absolutely -no-experience-in-love blah blah"
which falls in love with the oh-so-hot-and-handsome-guy. duh.
(yup like someone mentioned Honey x Honey Drops. Getting to that, it really makes me wonder how it could have survived 8 volumes. geh.)
But i believe it depends on how the story is directed as the manga goes along.
Really, i didn't mind stories like Moe Kare!! because it was really heart-wrenching and sweet at some moments. Even though it was packed with cliches.
But i simply cannot tolerate stuff like falling in love with the dominating guy who literally rapes the girl all the time while she weakly or meekly says 'no! no!' and still gets wet or all aroused.
Hint hint, Mayu Shinjo's Haou Airen & Love Celeb.
I actually made it through Love Celeb under some state of weird mind. I couldn't make it through Haou Airen though. ^_^
NO. NOOOOOOOOOOO.
Oh back to Honey x Honey Drops. Painful. Paaaaainful. Are shojo manga readers that desperate nowadays? It went on for 8 volumes!
The heroine cries perhaps every chapter.
WEAK.
Bitches appear randomly out of nowhere.
The guy's personality just sucks.
There's a man-bitch too.
Well i stopped reading it anyway but i do know the ending.
FLOWERY-WHITEY FLOWERS MARRIAGE! <3
I still think it's pretty sad. Why do these manga exist? Because readers eat it up.
Honestly I wouldn't mind a strong heroine. Oh there are many of those in shoujo manga. In the first chapters of the shoujo mangas. from then on, no more.
Testimonial 1: Love Celeb's female lead slaps the male lead in maybe, within the first 20 pages? The guy takes an interest in her, and from then on, GONE.
Testimonial 2: Honey x Honey Drops Man... do i really have to explain this one?
Plot development. Sucky for many shoujo manga. I don't really need to elaborate on this. Read Love Celeb, Kyou, Koi Wo Hajimemasu, and Honey x Honey Drops (of course!!) to know more. Or perhaps any of Shinjo Mayu's mangas. <3
I can't really think of anything else, as these mangas are the most prominent in my head right now.
.....Oh read Akuma na Eros TOO!!!
EDIT: Can not every girl in the history of shoujo manga blush everytime there is skin contact? IT IS JUST VERY SO ANNOYING. I wish i would find a girl who wouldn't do that. Please PM me should you find one shoujo manga like that (with romance!)
Thanks!
________________
and i know i'm going to like this a lot. <3
^ manga: Dengeki Daisy.
I am immensely sexy. I live in a sexy house with my sexy family. My alias is #sexy. I have a sexy computer.
I think Freddie Mercury is so sexy!!
Member
12:22 am, Jun 2 2011
Posts: 25
12:22 am, Jun 2 2011
Posts: 25
Shoujo has the most shallow plots out of all genre of manga. Yet not surprising seeing as they are catered to little girls.
Besides the almost identical plotlines, there are only about 3 type of art styles in shoujo. Not much diversity. Shoujo (and by extension Josei) needs more variety in both plot and art.
Shounen and Seinen for example have very distinct art styles unique to the authors (usually, there are cases like Fairy Tail and One Piece... but they worked together) but shoujo? It's quite hard to attribute any particular art style to an author (there are exceptions but those are few).
It's like they picked up a "How to draw shoujo manga for dummies" book and did everything by the book.
One can say that shounen are all the same, that there is some hot blooded MC trying to save the world from an evil organization. There is some truth in that BUT the one big difference is the world and mythology that the author builds around it. Are there similar elements in One Piece, Bleach, and Naruto? Yes, but are the worlds/mythology the same? No. The vast worlds that each author created must take immense amount of time and creativity. Yea Naruto is about ninjas but the backstory on all the different villages, characters, legends, etc. are unique to it.
Unfortunately for shoujo, 90% of it is a high school setting with generic background characters, average main girl, and 2 tall, rich, good looking guys fighting over her. Then each chapter is just drama on how the girl gets pulled around by the two or how the other nameless girls bully her cause they're jealous. It's either that or vampires. Some rare exceptions include Vampire Knight and Skip Beat.
Besides the almost identical plotlines, there are only about 3 type of art styles in shoujo. Not much diversity. Shoujo (and by extension Josei) needs more variety in both plot and art.
Shounen and Seinen for example have very distinct art styles unique to the authors (usually, there are cases like Fairy Tail and One Piece... but they worked together) but shoujo? It's quite hard to attribute any particular art style to an author (there are exceptions but those are few).
It's like they picked up a "How to draw shoujo manga for dummies" book and did everything by the book.
One can say that shounen are all the same, that there is some hot blooded MC trying to save the world from an evil organization. There is some truth in that BUT the one big difference is the world and mythology that the author builds around it. Are there similar elements in One Piece, Bleach, and Naruto? Yes, but are the worlds/mythology the same? No. The vast worlds that each author created must take immense amount of time and creativity. Yea Naruto is about ninjas but the backstory on all the different villages, characters, legends, etc. are unique to it.
Unfortunately for shoujo, 90% of it is a high school setting with generic background characters, average main girl, and 2 tall, rich, good looking guys fighting over her. Then each chapter is just drama on how the girl gets pulled around by the two or how the other nameless girls bully her cause they're jealous. It's either that or vampires. Some rare exceptions include Vampire Knight and Skip Beat.
