Merge Arabian/s with Middle Eastern. Essentially the same. It doesn't matter which name you keep.

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Join SRoMU Scanlations or visit #SRoMU at IRCHighWay.

That's a nice way to put it.
About two-thirds of the way done, compared to the original tag count, I think...
Took care of them. Thank you for your help.
I see them used for both, some more than others. I can't think of a good way to fix this right now without making these already long relationship tags even longer.
Left Love Polygon; something about one of the male leads already having fallen for a different girl...?
Done, thanks. Although, I'm regretting saying that it was okay to have separate seme and uke versions of the glasses tag... It already took a lot of effort and time just switching them all to "male lead" from "protagonist" for all those yaoi series (hundreds).
Those categories are bizarre. Seems like people often use them simply to mean young boy protagonists/characters, so I renamed them to Young Male Lead or deleted them where applicable.
deleted
Yes, the Lolita/s tag must necessarily be used to refer to main characters wearing lolita fashion (and most often, the accompanying character traits), otherwise the tag would be redundant with the lolicon genre. As just mentioned, these characters tend to have certain personalities, so that's why I haven't deleted it. I decided to merge Gothic Lolita/s into Lolita/s, having it serve as an umbrella term for main characters wearing various types of lolita fashion (e.g., "sweet lolita" with its typical personality traits, and so on).
Goth fashion (and typical personality) is different from gothic lolita and from lolita fashion in general, it's more like a punk rock-influenced, rebellious sort of thing. I'm going to leave it alone for now.
I decided to merge Gothic (which seems to mean gothic literature style (e.g., Stoker's Dracula)) and Gothic Art Style into a new tag, Gothic Style, since the two (literature and art style) are pretty much always going to both occur together anyway.
deleted
done and done
I merged Deity/ies into God/s. The only slight nuisance is that there is also a goddess tag, meaning that technically the series should be sorted into male and female. But, it's not unheard of in English to call a female deity a "god" rather than a "goddess," so I'm not going to spend time combing through the entries.
I'm okay with tags being used to mark the country provided that the country is unusual (not Japan), and relevant to the plot. About this time last year, I had deleted the Japan tag, simply because there's nothing noteworthy about a manga being set in Japan (and advocated the use of tags like Japanese Politics and Japanese Society instead, for those manga that are actually about Japan). I've done the same again.
I merged Impersonation into Impersonating Someone (sounds more definitive).

I see no problem with that tag and don't know why someone would have deleted it, but unfortunately, there is no way to recover deleted categories yet. You can usually find portions of those lists on Wayback Machine, but even so, it will still have to be re-added one by one.

I'm going to leave them as is. It's true that one of the meanings of "cool" is calm and composed, which is similar to stoic, but when used in a phrase like "cool male lead," it's pretty clear that it means attractive and impressive (as in, "He wears sunglasses indoors because he wants to look cool."). That's different from "stoic character" (enduring hardship without showing distress) and "cold character" (unfeeling or cruel).

done


Last edited by lynira at 5:40 pm, Dec 4 2014

________________
Manga Cover Database

I know you like the shortest possible name for tags, but if I can take another stab at changing the Lolita/s tag into "Lolita Fashion" (Or style?) mostly to avoid the confusion what the tag means.


You could always merge Goddess in God/s to make things easier but I can see some having a fit over that ...


There's a Glasslamp Fantasy tag. Which I think was just spelled wrong ... as I tried googling it and it was asking if I meant "Gaslamp Fantasy" which makes a lot more sense.

________________
Yes yes, I know I make longwinded comments, but that's just me >.<
I should proof read my comments more, but I won't...
So keep in mind I'm filled with typos

Check out FAQ and Forum Rules if you haven't yet.
For errors linking in threads

Point taken. I went with Fashion Lolita/s, since, although it does sound a bit weird, I want the tag to be about the characters personalities, not just about clothes.

Yeah. That's why I compromised, not sorting through it but still leaving the female version, and, conveniently, I think that's totally fine for that particular term.

Changed it to Gaslamp Fantasy. I think most gas-powered lights are glass, but for the literature term, I think it's always either "gaslamp" or "gaslight."

________________
Manga Cover Database

The Affair tag is redundant and should be merged into the Affair/s tag.

I've seen a lot of series that feature a promiscuous character settling for one partner, and I'd like to create a category tag for that. I want to make it neutral in regard to gender and sexual orientation, but I can't seem to come up with a suitable name. Settled promiscuous character sounds so stiff. Settled Playboy/Playgirl or Settled Player would indicate too much of a general change in lifestyle apart from relationships. And Settled Womanizer would limit the category to heterosexual men. Any suggestions?


________________
"Stories are what death thinks he puts an end to.
He can't understand that they end in him, but they don't end with him."
- Ursula K. Le Guin, Gifts

To be savoured:
- Blood Alone by TAKANO Masayuki
- Otoyomegatari by MORI Kaoru
- Gangsta. by Kohske
- Seishun Kouryakuhon by AKIZUKI Sorata

Done

I've seen that theme a lot, too, but I can't think of a good name, either. "Playboy/Playgirl Settles Down" is concise, but also implies marriage and homemaking. The best I can come up with is "Playboy/Playgirl Goes Steady with One Partner," which is accurate, but long. For obvious reasons, I dislike long tags, but there are some cases where we've gotten some long tags because there were no better options (e.g., "Female Lead Falls in Love First"). So... it's up to you.

________________
Manga Cover Database

How about "monogamous playboy/girl"?

________________
Hrodulf and Bjornolfr, you will not be forgotten.

And if the world were black and white,
you would be my rainbow in shades of grey.

Click 'n Play!

If I had a fantasy self, it'd be a tentacle monster.

I introduced all sorts of new tag over the last weeks(it is taught at library school) and noticed a few things:
Are Sexual Assault and Attempted Rape really that different ? I only want to reduce the amount of rape tag variations.

Are Beast Women and Monster Girl/s different ?

What does the once used Berserk(lol) tag mean ? If anything we should have Berserker(s) because of the obvious manga, Fate/Stay Night and so on.

We have Gore + Violence and so is Brutality needed ? These is no definition in the dictionary and wiki links to MK. Scorpion wins !

What about Infidelity and cheating(even written in lower case) ? You can cheat on a test but this is not how people are using this tag. There is even Two-Timing.
We also have Adultery but that one is different as you need to be married.

Deceit and Deception kind of overlap.

Different type of metamorphisis. If man to cockroach is normal than what exactly is the right kind of metamorphosis ? It may also be misspelled.

Double Penetration and Multiple Penetration. Do we need to start counting ?

Are Mammary Intercourse (i had to google this one) and Paizuri (this one i did not ) really two different things ?

Body painting, business, capable male lead, death and different character each chapter are written in lower case btw. I may have more.
Edit: Hey Tripitaka. I would have chosen Playboy/girl settles down. Perfect for Mars.

Last edited by residentgrigo at 10:36 am, Jan 30 2015

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I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

I went with Playboy/Playgirl Becomes Monogamous.

While adding the new tag, I saw a Manizer/s tag with a single Yaoi entry. Shouldn't that be merged into Playboy/s?

Following the usual pattern Playgirl should be changed to Playgirl/s

Glutton and Big Eater are so similar that they should be merged.

There's a redundant version of Based on a visual novel which should be merged into the one with capital letters. Same goes for metamorphisis.

The rarely used Boy/Girl Seperate Classroom is spelled incorrectly. By the way, do we really need this tag?

Disregarding the non-capitalised letters, different character each chapter seems unnecessary as it is. I haven't read the series, but maybe the creator meant something like Multiple POVs?

The Ice and/or Snow, Kitten/s, useless female lead tags seem unnecessary to me.

The following tags could all benefit from a capital letter:
- arabian
- freedom
- laido
- lai
- losing weight
- murim
- nightmares
- obsession


EDIT:
Found another duplicate: Aphephobia and Haphephobia are the same.


Last edited by Tripitaka at 9:24 am, Feb 10 2015

________________
"Stories are what death thinks he puts an end to.
He can't understand that they end in him, but they don't end with him."
- Ursula K. Le Guin, Gifts

To be savoured:
- Blood Alone by TAKANO Masayuki
- Otoyomegatari by MORI Kaoru
- Gangsta. by Kohske
- Seishun Kouryakuhon by AKIZUKI Sorata

I am slowly looking at the categories page on the side and take notes out of professional curiosity and to tag better myself. I found some unknown manga for me and even learned a few new words. On we go:

Afraid of Cats Used once and is called Ailurophobia. Thx google.

Airplane Intercourse Used once and how often can this apply?

Alcohol + Booze Same thing.

Animal Female Lead Used once and very weird.

Army A logical tag bit I never use this one as we have all sorts of useful military versions. This one could be a stepchild.

Bloody Scenes We have multiple blood variation alone and a lot of violence variations.

Blowjob + Fellatio Same thing.

Brother and Sister + Brother-Sister Relationship Look similar to me.

Character Parade+ Huge Cast of Characters and maybe even Ensemble cast of characters overlay hard.

Character with Same Name as the Author Really?

Cure/s Not bad but it may mean nothing on it´s own and only used once.

Date Masamune The "or a Relative" is missing.

Deadbeat Brother Very specific and used once.

Defloration + First Time Intercourse I GET why both are here but them are the same theme. Just Saiyan.

Dexterous/Capable The popular and similar Clever Protagonist exists.

Drawing/s Not but but we have variation of art and so on. Also very rare.

Die-Hard Fan We have Fanboy/s + Fangirl/s and Fanclub.

Director/s + Filmmaker/s Are similar to some degree and Filmmaker may be a stepchild

English Version Released at Same Time Used once and will this really help.

Fake Loli + Adult Loli May be the same thing but who knows.

Flying or Winged Horse/s or Pegasus Used once and a sentence to behold. A change to just Pegasus should be enough to even find it.

Gorgeous Devoted Female/s Only used on One Piece and a weird one.

Gorilla Female Lead Wow and used once.

Graphic Violence Used once and that is gore.

Mini Person + Tiny People The same.

Mutual Love + Love Interests Who Get Along are very similar. I would get rid off the first one as the second has a direct opposite.

Travel + Traveling Should be the same thing. Even if they are indeed different please still changed them to Travel(ing) as one has 7,5 times the uses of the other.I never know which to use.

Tribe/s + Tribes Same thing.

Undergarment/s + Panchira. Even Bloomer/s can fall under the same umbrella but i does have a lot of uses.


arabian, cheating isn´t Considered a Bad Thing (links to nothing) and freedom are lowercase.


Adapted to a Web Anime, Adapted to a Musical and Adapted to a Web Anime have "a" in between while the other adapted variations do not. Can this be adjusted to match the others so none are overlooked?

Can my Remake be turned into "Remake or Reimagining" so no confusion arises?
Edit: Yakuza is back with 3 results it seems.

Last edited by residentgrigo at 6:33 am, Feb 28 2015

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

-left Sexual Assualt and Attempted Rape alone (attempted rape is obviously a type of sexual assault, but there are other types (e.g., the popular Groping tag), so if I merge it, then I would also need to merge the other sexual assault tags)
-merged Beast Women and Monster Girl/s
-deleted Berserk (If this tag was used to mean someone losing their temper, we already have tags for that. A berserker is also a very specific type of warrior--I feel, too specific for the amount of use it would get.)
-left Brutality alone (it's a good question, but brutality can exist even without gore)
-merged cheating and Two-Timing into Infidelity
-merged Deceit into Deception
-deleted Different type of metamorphisis
-merged Double Penetration and Multiple Penetration into Double/Multiple Penetration (I wanted to merge them both under multiple because it would be concise, but doing it this way should prevent people from recreating a new, separate double penetration tag)
-merged Mammary Intercourse into Paizuri (the latter term was much more widely used)
-merged body painting into Painting (I don't think it's common enough to get its own tag)
-capitalized Business and Capable Male Lead; somebody did Death already
-someone deleted different character each chapter already
-merged Manizer/s into Playboy/s
-renamed Playgirl to Playgirl/s
-merged Big Eater into Glutton/s
-checked that Based on a Visual Novel was capitalized; somebody did Metamorphosis already
-deleted Boy/Girl Seperate Classroom (I also can't see this tag getting much use)
-someone deleted Ice and/or Snow already
-merged Kitten/s into Cat/s
-somebody deleted useless female lead already
-merged arabian into Middle Eastern
-capitalized freedom
-someone took care of Iaido and Iai already (actually, these are capitalized--the first letter is a capital "i," not a lowercase "l." But anyway, it's a style of swordsmanship and was merged into Sword Training, I think.)
-merged losing weight into Weight Loss
-capitalized Murim, Nightmares, Obsession
-merged Aphephobia into Haphephobia (the latter is the more common term, according to Google)
-deleted Afraid of Cats (uncommon phobias will be deleted--there are just way too many)
-deleted Airplane Intercourse
-merged Booze into Alcohol
-deleted Animal Female Lead
-merged Army into Military (I was tempted to leave it, if "army" referred specifically to land troops, but people usually do not use the term so strictly. In the end, "army" and "military" really overlap a lot in colloquial use.)
-combined Bloody Scenes and Gore into Blood and Gore (Depending on how you define gore, a scene with lot of bloodshed may not qualify (if it doesn't also depict something gruesome--i.e., insides of bodies), so I made a compound category to remove all doubt.)
-merged Blowjob into Fellatio
-merged Character Parade and Ensemble cast of characters into Huge Cast of Characters
-deleted Character with Same Name as the Author
-merged Cure/s into Searching for a Cure
-renamed Date Masamune to Date Masamune or a Relative (I did it for now, but I'm a little apprehensive about these famous-person tags getting out of control. We can't possibly have a tag for every famous person; at some point, we'll have to draw the line.)
-deleted Deadbeat Brother
-merged Defloration into First-Time Intercourse (The choice was either to make male and female versions for this and delete First-Time Intercourse or to combine them into one. I chose the latter, because I'm not about to start another huge sorting chore.)
-merged Dexterous/Capable Protagonist into Clever Protagonist
-merged Drawing/s into Art
-merged Die-Hard Fan into Fanboy/s or Fangirl/s where applicable
-merged Filmmaker/s into Director/s
-deleted English Version Released at Same Time (volumes being released in English at the same time as the original language is quite rare, plus you can look up the number of volumes out in English very easily anyway, so in my opinion not a very useful category)
-merged Adult Loli and Fake Loli into Appearance Different from Actual Age(still not 100% sure what the term "fake loli" is supposed to mean, but a lot of them had girls who appeared prepubescent but actually weren't, so I merged it along with Adult Loli)
-merged Flying or Winged Horse/s or Pegasus into Mythical Beast/s
-deleted Gorgeous Devoted Female/s (Beautiful Female Lead is already there on the one series tagged with it)
-deleted Gorilla Female Lead (lol)
-merged Graphic Violence into Blood and Gore
-merged Mini Person and Tiny People into Miniature Person/s
-deleted Mutual Love and Love Interests Who Get Along (Both of these things are the norm--why even have tags for them at all? It's much more efficient to mark the exceptions. For mutual love, there's unrequited love and one-sided relationships; for love interests who get along, there's love interests who don't get along.)
-someone took care of Traveling already (I'm assuming it was merged into Travel)
-someone took care of Tribe already (assuming it was merged into Tribe/s)
-merged Bloomer/s into Undergarment/s, but left Panchira (To my understanding, panchira refers specifically to pantyshots (panties "peeking" out from under skirts due to angle or other means), while most of the series listed under Undergarment/s are dirty manga that feature women completely exposing their underwear. I think that's different enough to keep them separate.)
-took care of arabian already (see above), deleted cheating isn´t Considered a Bad Thing, checked capitalization for Freedom
-deleted "a" from Adapted to a Web Anime, Adapted to a Musical and Adapted to a Web Anime
-renamed Remake into Remake/Reimagining

About the "X and Y" and "X-Y Relationship" tags, they are currently a mess. Ideally, one version might be used to refer to non-romantic relationships and the other to romantic ones, but they're not being used that way. (The "X-Y Relationship" ones are usually romantic but not always, and the "X and Y" ones are a complete toss-up.) I have thought of two solutions:
1. Simply merge "X and Y" into their respective "X-Y Relationship" versions, and leave it up to other tags (e.g., Incest) for people to tell which is which. This is by far the easier option, but it is sloppy.
2. Rename to "X-Y Bond" (for non-romantic/non-sexual) and "X-Y Romance" or maybe to "X-Y Non-Romantic Relationship" and "X-Y Romantic Relationship." This option is nice and specific, but requires massive weeding out of improper entries on my part.
Thoughts, anyone?


________________
Manga Cover Database

First off, wow, and great job with all the merging and deleting. That must be tiring at time.

Second. You're talking about tags like father-daughter relationship right? If so.
I agree merging it all into one and excepting a incest tag is simple but lazy.
I personally think having the X-Y non romantic relationship and X-Y romantic relationship is better.
It's a lot of work, and probably something you don't want to do, but I'll try to help out as much as I can ... when I can.

Incest is great as a general tag, for when someone wants any sort of incest story. However, sometimes you want that certain type of incest of Father/son, or father daughter.

About 2 days ago I came across a manga with the tag father/daughter relationship. I gasped in excitement, only to see there was no incest tag.:/
I generally don't like having to show all the tags as some have spoilers. Having them separated into non romantic and romantic would probably be better.

Although that does bring up the issue of the tag "Important non romantic relationship" .... which I guess could also extent to friends?? ...


EDIT -
Help with the dreaded glasses sorting. You can get rid of bespectacled protagonist from these.
Boku no Chi de Yokereba
Binkan Kiss
Atashi no Banbi
Chotto Friday
Black Coffee (NAKANO Emiko)
Emma
Hyougara Sanka
Junai Strip
Kakuu no Koibito
Kitto Kawaii Onnanoko Dakara (Miharu)
Koakuma to Meromero Tengoku
Kokoro Rental
Shinigamihime no Saikon
Shinigamihime no Saikon - Baraen no Tokei Koushaku

Last edited by kitty1826x at 7:51 pm, Feb 23 2015

________________
Yes yes, I know I make longwinded comments, but that's just me >.<
I should proof read my comments more, but I won't...
So keep in mind I'm filled with typos

Check out FAQ and Forum Rules if you haven't yet.
For errors linking in threads

For anyone that cares: MU employs a controlled vocabulary and the tag are called thesauri. Such a system can become outdated and when someone contributes a new tag intellectual indexing takes place. Such tags are derived form the text or the knowledge of that person so they vary in quality. The administration and troubleshooting we are participating in is thus needed to keep a useful thesauri library.
Only a healthy categories database will lead to good search result and the better and more thorough you apply categories and genres the higher the chances are that your favorite manga will found again. Tag first and rate and review second.

Isn´t Brutality part of Cruelty then or are we on a different page and the once used Excessive Cruelty (by what measure?) is not needed.
So i helped to murder the loli´s and i further consider Blood and Guts the most metal thing i every helped to contribute to. Now back to the regularly scheduled death march:

Abuse Not dumb but only it´s variations help new reader if they don´t know the content beforehand is so i only tag with specific ones.

Accident-Prone Character/s Not bad but part of Clumsy Character (which needs more uses).

Adapted to Soundtrack CD Is this good information?

Affair Has no real definition (i was very surprised to find that out) and we went over "Infidelity" already.

Ambitious Goal/s is part of Ambition by default so research becomes harder.

Body Fusion is part of Body Horror. Body Changes and Body Modification are one too many.

Borderline Yaoi Can we stick to the subtext and so on or even better tag properly?

Blood I suggest a change to Blood as a Theme here so it won´t look like a violence variation. We have a lot of blood tags btw.

Brother-Sister Team Is too specific and we have so many sibling variations. There is also the rare Team Battle and Teammates relationship.

Con-Man Is a Swindler/s.

Classic Manga Can this be changed into Classic Japanese Franchise?
If this is too much in one then i may invent a novel variation and so on in the future after a bit of research of what we have in the database.

Drug Abuse is Drug Addiction and what should i pick if i tag?

Different Couples is part of Multiple Romances.

Demon Sword/s may be a Sentient Weapon and there is Cursed Weapon (lacks the /s), Special Weapons, ... We may have too many choices with weapon/sword tags as the gun tag variations are few and clean.

Difficult Childhood + Painful Childhood are similar so i choose the first and does Childhood alone help as we have a lot specific ones here.

Eat or Be Eaten Situation We have way better here.

Existential A change to Existential Theme/s would better describe the tag.

Eyepatch A change to "Eyepatch/One-Eyed" makes sense so it becomes more useful.

Fairy Doctor Too specific and twice used.

Family Destruction and Family Problems should be part of Family Drama while Family Love is a bit needless.

Famous Character/s The other 3 versions at least desribe and it is rare.

Fanboy/s and Fangirl/s should be combined into Fan/s to have a more useful tag.

Fantasy-Prone Character/s Who needs this?

Fearful Female Lead Used twice and lead protagonist is X is out of control.

Feudal Japan We have specific centuries and eras.

Four-Timing Another variation and leads to one manga only.

Foursome (Giggity Giggity!) and Threesome are part of Group Intercourse and we are counting again.

Hitman/s Not bad but these are Assassin/s and fitting companion tags exist so i never use it.

Homoerotic Subtext Used twice (and once clearly wrong) is BL Subtext.

Human/s Only leads to Re:Monster (makes no sense!) and should be the default.

Human nature + Reflections on Human Nature Let´s merge and keep reflecting.

Important Non-Romantic Relationship/s Is a giant unhelpful mess as of now and i never use it.

Insanity (A real thing) + Mind Break (The very same but a porn genre / Poor Berserk).
Mental Illness is also present. I suggest a Mental Disorder tag and then a fusion here as this is the scientific end result. The Mental breakdown variation has use so you could put Mind Break into this one too.

Internalized Homophobia is Homophobia.

Kobold/s We have too many specific monster tags and it only goes to Re:Monster. That manga is a breeding ground it seems.

Loli Sidekick Wow.

Love at First Kiss I get it but we have better first love tags.

Mass Murder/s is a Massacre but Genocide can be left alone.

Megalomania Very unknown (i had to read wiki to find out what i was voting on) and we have better and more precise tags.

Money Grubber Could use a better name.

Multiple Wives is Polygamy.

Mysterious Know-Everything Character/s Who will find this. Change it into Omniscient Character/s as this is a literary device with a wiki page.

Non-BL with Two Male Leads I would never use it and there is no GL version.

Nymphomaniac (A great movie and the real word is Hypersexuality - thx wiki) Is a Sex Addict.

Money Problems is a Debt where variations come. A Debt Collector should be a Loan Shark.

Older Protagonist What is the definition here and the lack one shows in the results.
Middle-Aged Protagonist is good and we have old, young and school grade variations.

Pretend Victim Once used and we have better tags.

Psychokinesis + Telekinesis Are the very same thing. Go with the first like wikipedia.

Protagonist Lacks Special Ability Only the opposite should need a tag.

Protagonist Loyal to Love Interest The mutual love thing again and only the inversion is helpful.

Realistic Body/ies Should be part of Realistic Art Style by definition. I only use the variations here.

Power Boost Through Kiss + Power Unlocked Through Kiss A combination into Kissing Based Power/s makes more sense.

Playboy/s + Womanizer/s Should be the same.

Salaryman + Office Worker/s Could be combined. What about different but related Businessman + Business Person who can me melted into something gender neutral.

Searching for Clues or Information is Searching for Answers.

Selfish Protagonist Well Egoist/s and Egotistic Protagonist exist and all the variations need cleaning up.

Sexuality Not needed and we have so many Sexual ...´s.

Shrine Maiden/s Is a Miko and we have priest versions and shrine alone but i am no Shinto expert.

Sickness as an Illness. And i use which now?

Slut/s May be popular but is way too iffy and we have Promiscuous Character(/s is missing) and a lot´s of better ones.

Social Anxiety + Social Anxiety Disorder. I get the difference but still.

Suicidal Is a Death Wish and we have suicide variations.

Strong Multi-Cultural Influences What a mess.

Super-Powered Techniques is a Super Powers by default.

Suspense and Thriller are the very same.

Time Slip I get it but it is part of Time Travel and both only lead to confusion.

Unexpected Ending Is part of Unique Plot Twist/Ending.

Weapons Dealer is an Arms Dealer.

Womanizer/s is a Playboy/s.

I trust in solution one. Not because it is easy but because incest has over 7000 votes. Users will still be imprecise with the tags no matter how clean and deep you go and what sort of creations will come out?
A tag named Father-Daughter Non-Romantic Relationship ? They will be way too wordy too. Is there another problem besides the romance/incest relation to relationship as people tag romance like crazy too. Don´t roll a boulder uphill that you don´t have to!
I am not a fan of "as a Subplot" especially in concern to Incest / Rape.
Ether a manga has such a narrative in it and i tag it (victim is good to me) or it does not as subtitle incest/rape is just . Only Romantic Subplot is a subplot tag i use/need and the other ones are a constant reason for voting wars. They also link to porn way too much.

Last edited by residentgrigo at 5:30 am, Jul 11 2015

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

Well, have been using the website and specially the search and tagging system here a lot lately in order to find series with interesting elements for my lists and/or help people find series of their own interest.

Was reading the last few pages of discussion in this thread a couple weeks ago and had some of my own opinions about the tag use, which I regret not posting earlier. Sorry for chimming in late, but I wish we could reconsider some of the already discussed tags. I'll try to lay my reasoning in the respective quotes. Also have some general considerations about tags/categories, their organization and searching, which I should present at the end of my post.




Really bad change I think. I was thinking that maybe if the usage of the now deleted Arabian/s category was too low, maybe it could partly-justify such a change, but even then, I'd think the importance that such a tag should present ought to strongly out-favour its possible low usage. If it doesn't outright describe a series much more aptly than the often relatively vague middle eastern tag does.

Searching through the middle eastern tag now, where the titles that used to have the Arabian/s tag are now clumped together with the middle eastern ones, just on the first page I can see 6 titles with either 'Arabian' included in its name title or some direct cultural reference to it like the term/number '1001' in its name or so.

I can totally understand why there's no need to create a tag for each middle eastern country. I'm also not even a very literary-savy person, but I'd think the Arabian region has set itself apart due to its distinct cultural and literary presence. I also think that there can be interest from users to search for specific 'Arabian' influenced titles; and also other non-Arabian related but 'middle eastern' influenced titles, such as Otoyomegatari or Shoukoku no Altair for instance, which seem to be more on the Turkish side.


For story purposes, it's possible they have enough differences or merits to be distinguished. Sexual Assault seems like a rather broad term for many kinds of coerced sexual acts. Whereas Attempted Rape, I'd assume it to be the typical intended penetrative act, except for it to be left unfinished, whether it be by victim struggle, self-restraint, outside help or other reasons.
I'm also assuming people who place and vote a title with the Sexual Assault tag take for granted that the act happened mostly unobstructed.

The relationship between these terms seems to be inclusive: an attempted rape is a form of Sexual Assault, with the relevant addendum of being more descriptive on how the situation unfolded. That's my take on it.


Yes, I think so. I think they can connote different enough portraits of the fantasy/supernatural/sci-fi "Monster woman" archetype despite the clear overlap.

Monster Girls in particular is a term that's been on a high lately and the tendency is to probably be used more often from now on, but what it implies and the way it's used now describes most often a much more cute, 'moe' and even more sexualized version of what Monster Women have been usually depicted in the past. There are quite some titles centering or possessing Monster Girls now, and the kinds of stories they show and the way they have been used now is on typically funny/comedy stories, harems, stories with ecchi and even SoLs.

The old and more primal 'Beast/Monster Women' have, or used to have, a noticeably different portrayal I think. They aren't or weren't designed to look too cute or too attractive, being much less personable. They might have the beauty, or rather, the allure of the old siren seductresses of myth with their naked bodies and features, but aren't necessarily portrayed or designed to either a) be sexualized (though that is debatable) or b) be objects/subjects of admiration, like in the stories we can find now. One common feature for instance, is the reaction being conveyed from readers and/or story characters to usually be that of disgust and/or horror once the identity of the 'Beast/Monster Woman' is revealed, sometimes even during sexual acts.

Another thing that sets them apart is how they are perceived: Monster Girls are now a subject of peaceful relationships, coexistence and even cohabitation; "Beast/Monster Women" on the other hand are shunned and seen as threats to the lives of people and communities, almost invariably seeing people as solely sources of food.

Examples for typical Monster Girls nowadays abound, for instance we have the easily recognizable Monster Musume no Iru Nichijou (Everyday with Monster Girls), Centaur's Worries and plenty of others.

Now the older and more raw form of the 'Beast/Monster Women' depiction has become increasingly more rare with the "Moe-fication" of such a figure (which is honestly bad for those seeking this type of depiction and imagery). I think NAGAI Go portrays well this second type in some of his works like Devilman and Devilman Lady, the later where the lead character arguably transforms herself into one such. Berserk also displays quite a few, like in the very first chapter we see Guts , also several other female apostles and even the rough and classically designed Harpies later on. Claymore also does the 'Beast/Monster Women' close to its essence, as the series has little intended sexualization despite a wide female cast (the nudity looks and feels more centered on the artistic side).

With all that said, I think we could summarise the difference by looking at their design (Monster Girls have a particularly "lighter"/cute design), mood, personability/relatability and the design intentions behind and surrounding them.

Since I arrived late in this discussion, I'm not sure what can be done by now. Some tags have already been merged or deleted. For this case I was wishing to propose the creation of a Beast/Monster Women or Beast/Monster Woman/s tag, whichever would fit best the current pattern of naming tags. I think it can really describe more aptly the subject matters, instead of forcing them into a now more widespread term, which might be slightly misleading and/or not really actually describing that well its said critters, even if the root idea is about the same.


Seems like a pretty unique and potentially legit tag to me. I don't have any specific series in mind that would fit the criteria right now but I imagine that several of the early TEZUKA Osamu works could present that kind of lead. Most famously Kimba the White Lion, while not being female, does present an animal as a character lead. I just checked to see if Tezuka's Bagi, the Monster of Mighty Nature had some written manga spin-offs, sequels or follow ups, but it seems it's stand alone.

I'll get ahead and mention that just because not many series are present in a certain tag, it shouldn't necessarily encourage us to replace or merge them into other more popular categories. Also, it's important to have in mind that other potential future titles might be included; or there might even be titles fitting the description that may exist and already be registered... we might just not have tagged the respective titles to these tags yet.



I think they could describe different characteristics or aspects of the protagonists. Being dexterous or capable at something is not quie the same as being clever, even if they often go hand-in-hand. I'm all for detailed description and use of tags, as long as it doesn't sound too contrived.

Just now I was looking at the types and description of male leads to tag a series I was reading the other day that lacked more detailed and accurate categories/tags. I was looking for something like "Skilled male lead". Couldn't find it or any better. The previous Dexterous male lead would have worked too if it had been available.


I imagine that more series could work with this tag. Looks ok to me, but that might be just me.


At this point both this and the Animal female lead have been deleted or merged, but if the use on both tags were different, they could have been merged into just Animal Female lead. I'll agree that describing the species of the animal protagonist in the tag would be unnecessary (that would probably be covered in the series description), suffice to say that the protagonist is an animal and it should already present enough novelty for the tag and the title itself.

I assume all of these were deleted or possibly went for Animal POV now, which wouldn't sound quite the same to me.


Again, I like the fact that the second one is more descriptive of the relationship than the first. I think there could be a very deep mutual love between characters in a story, but that wouldn't mean they necessarily get along very well, which could be the case of other series.


Edit: Forgot to reply this quote.

I wonder if they really are the norm. A different example, but recently I've been watching some series where strikingly, the brothers and sisters get along pretty well, unlike the usual grumpy and feisty stuff that feels the norm to me. I'm finding it a breath of fresh air personally.

I'm not so sure Love Interests getting along or passing the aura or image that their Mutual Love is a strong element and something emphasized in the story is that much normal, specially if it's something that starts along being outright stated. Isn't the whole dragging drama, the obstacles, denial of feelings and so forth the common trend? As well as the unrequited and one sided loves? This is not exactly my forte and I'm sure many people know better than me. Though looking at the 46 pages of results for unrequited love, if I had to bet here, I'd say that something accurately tagged as Mutual Love and Love Interest Who Get Along would feel like quite a novelty compared to these results.

If I'm understanding it right, you're assuming there wouldn't be interest in these search terms, only in the exceptions. Can't say I agree.




I think there are series where undergarment/s can be a big part of the story, without necessarily bringing the ecchi aspect of panchira all the time. Bloomers should also be left alone I think, as it's distinct enough and has quite a strong cultural appeal.


I think we are in agreement as to panchira, but Bloomer's, like I said, is probably a theme strong enough to be left on it's own given its (sometimes polemic) cultural importance and prominence in the manga/anime medium.

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Now for some general considerations. I'm noticing there's been some major effort in order to try to cleanse the tags database here due to the enourmous ammount and also possible redundancy of tags present. While this effort is commendable and of great importance, I think it's also important to pause and seriously consider if the tag really is completely unneeded and/or if other tags could really absorb or replace it in a better way. I guess that's why we have this thread for discussion and I'll try to follow the discussions more actively fom now on too.

I have mentioned earlier that low usage of tags shouldn't necessarily force us to look for other more popular and similar enough replacements. Many series could be best described in their own infrequently used tags/categories, and this low number of hits can actually make the series more visible to those specifically searching for it's categories. Lumping series with similar enough tags/categories together makes for a greater number of more generic and non-detailed results in a specific search, with the big possibility of missing the few titles that could be of greater interest to the user in the middle of so many others that share just a similar concept (and not exactly what you're looking for) .

I think with a wider array of tags to accurately describe many of a series elements, and hopefully some precise community up-voting, MU could step up even more its search results.
This model or way to organize tags I'm alluding, if done properly, also makes for a richer, more detailed and diversified organization, which can greatly help future searches to display more accurate results, which is or should be of great interest. Some tags or categories will obviously be much more stacked than others, but as long as there is more descriptive options, the tendency in the long run is for the distribution to normalise a bit. Killing tags just for the sake of a crusade against too much redundancy can actually be damaging at some point, because what seems to be starting to happen here is that potentially valuable descriptive information is being lost in the subtle form of either tag deleting (without proper consideration) or lost information due to merging processes. Descriptive information IS information, sometimes just as important or even more so when we consider that it's often used here to index series that suit our own tastes.

Manga-Updates is currently one of the biggest, if not the biggest manga database available online, but it matters little how big and popular a database can be if it isn't organized enough and can't display accurate search results to a similar extent that it keeps cataloging all kinds of works. Tags/categories are of utmost importance because there is only so much depth you can go with popular genres alone.

As all of us posting here realize, the maintenance and optimization of the tag/category system here is also of great importance in order to grant the best search results. Sorry if I'm sounding pretentious, or if much of what I said was already mentioned here at some point, though I'm not sure if everyone is in agreement with some of the things I'm proposing or if I'm missing the goals of the tagging project here. I guess I will be reading this thread in its entirety now to know how it's developed, and will be following it closely from now on.

Last edited by Fate_Archer at 1:43 am, Mar 1 2015

Fate_Archeri I get your concern but there are so many directly related categories that research itself has become very problematic. The same goes for applying tags as i am doing that to my reading list/classics now (while reporting a lot of nonsense).
If a "professional" as me is having a hard time now how are others supposed to figure it out without putting serious time in? There are barely used tags like Zoologist that are good as this is a real theme and different form Zoo. Same goes of Warrior and War.
This i would never report! A too specific tag like Animal/Gorilla Female Lead on the other hand can barely be applied to 5 series that are NOT duplicates is trash especially if a good umbrella tag exist already. You can filter search results very well here so let´s keep doing that and not abuse the database. How specific do need to go to find something of interest? We have a very active search board that will help find you extremely specific manga so let´s keep the database as clean as possible. Come up with tag that people don´t want to read about for example instead as a form of warning. My 2 months old animal cruelty is spreading like wildfire. Even to porn! I came up with i tagging Berserk one last time which had no "Sacrifice" before me aka THE main them.
The reason i mentioned rape is be because we have too many versions of sex anything. Child Rape is 100% good is it is a distinguishing theme but if you type in rape and then sexual in another tab then you will faced with duplicates of themes. Or all the fetishes.
Same goes for sister or any version of a relative. What do i do then with our sex tags?
Do i go with a few "big" sex/relationship tags only so that the manga may not be found by people who do not think like me or do i use all the dozens and will then make the page look so creepy that none want to read it anymore even if the manga itself is not?

Look at Kamui Gaiden which has about 50 tags and 98% from me. That thing is NC-17 only btw. and i had the category page open while i read it and i then came back a day later after finishing to reflect and clean out what i found "inferior" to other duplicates.
This is how Attempted Rape stayed bit Sexual Assault went. Sexual Abuse though needs to stay as very specific torture scenes are that. I have explanations for pretty much each tag here and can now remove none without killing a mayor theme. I find my results very descriptive and you will find that series without a problem but many tags have unneeded variations of their own in the database too and i will get to them some say. Let´s say that we keep them all.
What next? Will i then go back and give out the other 50 ones to be thorough and then end up with Eden no Ori? It has 180+ tags while Hunter x Hunter is locked down with only about 30. Important information like Adapted to Movie, Adapted to OVA / OAV (Hunter × Hunter - Jump Super Anime Tour 98 exists), Adopted Protagonist, Blood and Gore (the heads of small children explode on pannel and it is still censored in the Tankōbon to this very day), Cannibalism(!), Chimera or even Insect/s, Friendship, Murder, Reflections on Human Nature, Torture, Virtual Reality or Video Games and Violence are all missing.
A version of this site should exist in 20 years too and new reader will have no idea what that series is about going in with the tags now as it is the darkest, most graphic and most intelligent SJ manga by far with no warning form us first or what is important after Volume 15 or so. Yes Kenshiro´s equality inappropriate adventure is way more young reader friendly despit the (off-screen) rape.
What does Eden no Ori look about now on the other hand? This is a real question as i have read vol.1-5 and the last 100 or so pages and i do not know anymore after looking at that mess. Less the 10 tag for one series are very bad as i have given out 20 page (hentai) shorts about that amount but more then 100 is nearly as terrible. The manga will be 100% found without a doubt but will it be understood after looking at it´s page?
Do we need Web Site/s while Internet and so on exist (new ones) if THIS very website can´t have Super Robot and Yakuza which are very japanes themes but fall into Piloted Robots and Mafia? I was allowed Real Robot though as that one now can differentiate itself form the other robots. I also always spread my many creations to other series before and especially after i notice that may darling snuck through.
95% of my crap passes the radar so my very related job training had use it seems.
I seem to have struck a never with the admins so let´s keep going and improve this site as it is hugely important to the international manga scene. Lambchopsil himself got a few messages from me too so Lynira is not my only "victim". Poor guys but this is a big time sink for me too.

Forgot: Gokukoku no Brynhildr is also another bad category page in the making.
They gave a Sci-fi manga the tag: Sci-fi Elements. Sorry but why does this even exist and what is Subtile Sci-Fi? The supernatural version is cool though. I just saw Tactician Protagonist on that page too. We have better ones if you ask me with Clever Protagonist but it´s gender versions starts with "smart". Do you see the problem here and Death Note does not have "Tactician Protagonist" .
Thus the tag is useless to me and there is also Genius, Socially Clueless Genius and... We have both Clueless and Socially Clueless variation btw. and better versions of that exist but i gave you more then enogh for now.
This is how i find these tags as i am still on letter F with my own slow crawl. Does anyone want to start from Z? My combined finding from yesterday are just from tagging my own list so expect me to stay as i think i now "get" how to find duplicates as i have way too much memorizes already. Curse you my brain but at least i now can tag a bit better.
See you when i see you dear anons.
Edit2: Yakuza is back (but still dumb) with 3 results it seems and All-Boys Dorm is part of All-Boys School with no female version.
Blood-Thirsty Male Lead We have better and i gave us Villain Protagonist.
Final Edit: Hi no Tori is my magnum opus what tagging is concerned.
Most of the description (i cleaned it a tiny bit), the publishing information and 2 categories are old and very well done but all the rest is me. It may be the most complcated manga i read as it was his life´s work. I also expended on HxH a bit above.

Last edited by residentgrigo at 9:23 am, May 6 2015

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