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Is peace EVEN possible?

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Is there such a thing as Peace and can it be achieved?
Yes. there is no doubt in my mind
No it's merely an illusion created by those who don't want to accept reality.
Votes: 132

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brutelord
Post #364290
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9:43 am, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 191


Are we discussing peace between humans, or peace on a much broader scale?

MapleSyrup
Post #364301 - Reply to (#364290) by brutelord
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12:51 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 88


Quote from brutelord
Are we discussing peace between humans, or peace on a much broader scale?


was thinking about the same thing but decided to go with "between humans"

I mean if we die out there won't be any large scale wars. But on the other hand, would peace exist in the notion we think of it as, if humans didn't exist?

so I mean, it all comes down to definitions, what do people mean by "peace" and "war"?

alphascan718
Post #364302
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12:54 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 48


never

cause human beings are greedy in nature we always want more

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Unknown to death.
Nor known to life.
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Lnc411
Post #364306
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1:55 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 339


What does peace mean to you?
-People hold hands and skipping in the meadow!!

Do you believe in peace?
-Yes and no...

is it possible to achieve peace?
-Yes! We only need to implant a chip inside everyone's head and make them obey... because that's the only way it'll happen. That or the world ends...

Is the country you live in peaceful?
-I don't even think such a country exists. Sure you can call a country "peaceful"; however, in reality, there's a conflict within or outside that goes unnoticed or outright neglected, and people just generalize the overall sense of security as peace. (did that even make sense? lol)

Can peace be achieved with communism or democracy or neither?
-Communism is a great idea (no I am not a communist...); it's just never able to be executed properly and probably never will. As for democracy... probably never... because you're giving people the power to choose, and no two people will ever see eye to eye on EVERYTHING.

What are your views?
-ALL HAIL LELOUCH!! Hey... he did it in an anime... why can't we?!

tsuto
Post #364308 - Reply to (#364301) by MapleSyrup
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Catnapper
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2:36 pm, Mar 17 2010
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Quote from MapleSyrup
Quote from brutelord
Are we discussing peace between humans, or peace on a much broader scale?


was thinking about the same thing but decided to go with "between humans"

I mean if we die out there won't be any large scale wars. But on the other hand, would peace exist in the notion we think of it as, if humans didn't exist?

so I mean, it all comes down to definitions, what do people mean by "peace" and "war"?



What? Peace is a concept that has meaning only among rational beings, so unless you are considering there is inteligent life outside earth, I think you are looking for another word.

And the asking about definitions leads really to nowhere. There are accepted definitions of some words, but if you mean there should be one that everyone will recognize as being "THE" definition, then I don't think you will like where that path leads you laugh

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Genten
Post #364309
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2:39 pm, Mar 17 2010
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The question was a little vague in describing what kind of peace you're talking about. I assumed you meant world peace, and that's the idea everyone else seems to be using.

No, I don't believe that world peace is possible. Even if we somehow managed to make everyone get along, it would only take until the next gunshot/arguement/murder/other various heinous crimes to shatter it. World peace is not achieveable, but that doesn't mean we should force ourselves to get into conflicts with each other. "Agreeableness" or "tolerating" is much more likely then peace. Of course, that's pretty vague too.

There are other ways to achieve some semblence of a truce among the world's nations, but none of them seem very postitive. There is the theory that every nation could do away with their ties to others and become isolated. But a country can't grow that way. Then there's always the idea that we could just kill each other until only the strongest survives, but that seems counterproductive. Although, the very idea of war is that the end result will be peace. Hmmm. . .

I think there's more pressing issues that we should be considering instead of peace right now. After we solve these problems we can tackle this philosophical issue.



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KazukiNezan
Post #364311
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3:05 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 86


Peace is impossible for humans. We are creatures who thrive on conflict. Peace is an illusion to calm the masses. War brings out the best and the worst of us. Look at the U.S.A. No offense to Americans, but they have been in wall to wall wars since WWII. There hasn't been a single year since WWII that the US hasn't been fighting a war somewhere.

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fr33noob
Post #364313 - Reply to (#364241) by Mamsmilk
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3:32 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 603


Quote from Mamsmilk
Quote from fr33noob
Quote from greydrak
It's perfectly attainable, just kill everything.

Peace eyes

With nothing left to argue or bicker among each other, true peace can be achieved.

Most people probably won't agree with it though since it'll require them to die...

roll eyes (This is what you get for not asking peace among living creatures/humans bigrazz )



lol laugh

so true...

False.

Warning, cognition inducing substance!

Since we need at least 1 person for the concept peace to exist,
for it does not manifest in nature. If there are no humans, there is
no peace as if there are no humans, there is no classical music,
just something a human being would acknowledge to be classical music,
but a bat would find just an unexplainable nuisance, although the
classical music most likely never came to be if humans were not
to exist.

Peace is a definition made by humans,
therefore animals do not have such notions. For peace to exist in
praxis, you need two human beings. Both participants must share
the same view of not having aggressions against the other party
and such things that do not have self-awareness of higher level certainly
do not have the awareness of somebody else's self-awareness, even less
awareness of such abstracts as peace.

Although there are animals that might
have allies, such as primates, we are not to speak of peace,
since they have no clue what peace is,
they just do something that helps them surive, all instictively.
The peace we
discuss now has nothing to do with anti-aggression pacts of primates.
For there to be peace between them, there must be a human to say
that there is a peace between them. Apes just stick together for their
own good, not because they have a developed moral code.

We could compare peace with a Datsun 100A. It is perfectly possible
for a Datsun 100A to exist as substance without humans, assuming
Nissan hasn't lied to us and has actually made all Datsun 100A's out
out of human bodies. (Although it could still exist, since human bodies
are made of substances that also appear elsewhere besides human bodies,
but it would be another mystery how human bodies came to be without humans
and what exactly is Nissan, but that is not crucial now.)
That Datsun 100A however requires a human
being to classify it a Datsun 100A and of course that means that the
human must speak truth of what s/he sees. It is not a Nissan 140Y,
even if the human mistakes it to be one. Just like the alliance
between apes might be mistaken to be a peace, but is only something
that resembles something that we know and that thing is peace.
All those Datsun 100A's could
exist in the nature based on the atoms they consist of. It does not
require a human for those atoms to exist, although it requires a human
to create a Datsun 100A out of those atoms. Just like the alliance between
monkeys, Datsun 100A is there. It just is not a Datsun 100A if nobody ever
made the concept Datsun 100A and if nobody ever saw it as Datsun 100A,
although it still is identical to a Datsun 100A to us who know how Datsun 100A
looks.
It would just be a huge abomination that no being can explain,
assuming any being besides the inexistant humans could explain anything.

One cannot be in peace with hermit
crabs, since they are unable to form a coherent stance or any stance at all.
There is no peace between granite and peridotite. There however can be
a peace between two beings that posses self-awareness and enough
intelligence to understand the concept and practice of peace or
groups of such beings. Such beings can assume that there is a peace
between granite and peridotite, but that would not be true, only false belief,
as false as granite and peridotite actually possessing the conditions required
for peace, but not being able to comprehend the idea of peace, therefore
making peace inexistant.


Amen.

Although I doubt anybody who read this understood my point,
but just try it.
I tried to keep my thought as one and firm, but I wrote between lines
and it was hard to stop adding new material, so I ended up writing
even more of the sub-categories of sub-categories and so on and
leaving the main subject clouded for a while to myself.
Everything is still there however.



who is to say the earth is not alive? acording to the theory life has its own definition and just having emotions and a concesnouse doesn't cover it, humans are like a viral infection to this earth inhabitance, we are the only race who don''t adapt to the eviroment but change it like a virus, truly after we are dead the earth will be peacefull with no ill harbour to the harmonious ecosystem it has.

we are like a plague, just because your human doesn't make you exzempt from it. peace for the earth is what is needed, then perhaps all humans should be eliminated. you just look at the compremises as a human, you see a leaf on a branch and i see the tree in the forest.

Last edited by fr33noob at 3:50 pm, Mar 17

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MapleSyrup
Post #364315 - Reply to (#364308) by tsuto
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3:35 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 88


Quote from tsuto
What? Peace is a concept that has meaning only among rational beings, so unless you are considering there is inteligent life outside earth, I think you are looking for another word.

And the asking about definitions leads really to nowhere. There are accepted definitions of some words, but if you mean there should be one that everyone will recognize as being "THE" definition, then I don't think you will like where that path leads you laugh


. . . the first part is what I was talking about, you put a defintion on peace, and the one I generally have as well, but everything you can interpret is relative so in THEORY you could say that if you have a clan of animals are fighting over territory, then it's a war.

that's why I said we need definitions, is peace simply the absence of war, or is it a state in which humans are not in war with each other? roll eyes

mind you, remember that peace has more meaning potential than one to begin with laugh

darkraiders
Post #364316
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3:38 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 116


Complete peace is impossible since to have peace you need war like to have light you need darkness 1 can't live without the other it's sad but thats how it work.

Kitteh_13
Post #364317 - Reply to (#364313) by fr33noob
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3:49 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 749


Quote from fr33noob
who is to say the earth is not alive? acording (sic) to the theory life has its own definition and just having emotions and a concesnouse (sic) doesn't cover it, humans are like a viral infection to this earth inhabitance (sic), we are the only race who don''t adapt to the eviroment (sic) but change it like a virus, truly after we are dead the earth will be peacefull (sic) with no ill harbour to the harmonious ecosystem it has.

we are like a plague, just because your human doesn't make you exzempt (sic) from it. peace for the earth is what is needed, then perhaps all humans should be eliminatet (sic). you just look at the compremises (sic) as a human, you see a leaf on a branch and i see the tree in the forest.


You mean the movie "The day the earth stood still"?
Your point and your intelligence would be more accepted if you didn't write like a 13 year old.

Anyways. Peace isn't possible. Humans can't exist without conflict. Blahblahblah.

Quote from darkraiders
Complete peace is impossible since to have peace you need war like to have light you need darkness 1 can't live without the other it's sad but thats how it work.


X2

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fr33noob
Post #364318 - Reply to (#364317) by Kitteh_13
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3:56 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 603


Quote from Kitteh_13
Quote from fr33noob
who is to say the earth is not alive? acording (sic) to the theory life has its own definition and just having emotions and a concesnouse (sic) doesn't cover it, humans are like a viral infection to this earth inhabitance (sic), we are the only race who don''t adapt to the eviroment (sic) but change it like a virus, truly after we are dead the earth will be peacefull (sic) with no ill harbour to the harmonious ecosystem it has.

we are like a plague, just because your human doesn't make you exzempt (sic) from it. peace for the earth is what is needed, then perhaps all humans should be eliminatet (sic). you just look at the compremises (sic) as a human, you see a leaf on a branch and i see the tree in the forest.


You mean the movie "The day the earth stood still"?
Your point and your intelligence would be more accepted if you didn't write like a 13 year old.

Anyways. Peace isn't possible. Humans can't exist without conflict. Blahblahblah.

Quote from darkraiders
Complete peace is impossible since to have peace you need war like to have light you need darkness 1 can't live without the other it's sad but thats how it work.


X2



laugh laugh im sorry but what part of my writing is like a 13 year olds? if i choose to be synical isn't that my choice? i think you need to mature a bit more...

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Vudoodude
Post #364320 - Reply to (#364316) by darkraiders
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4:04 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 305


Quote from darkraiders
Complete peace is impossible since to have peace you need war like to have light you need darkness 1 can't live without the other it's sad but thats how it work.


See, I always question statements like this. Theoretically, say you have a single spherical container known as the universe, and inside of it there is no source of light whatsoever. Therefore the entire theoretical universe is immersed in complete darkness. Darkness does not need light to exist, in fact darkness is the ABSENCE of light. Darkness does not exist where light exists. To assume that darkness needs light to exist is faulty, because darkness itself is not created by light, but exists when light is not present.

We only view darkness conceptually in relation to light because of the relationship the two tend to share, if light is present then darkness does not exist, and if darkness is present then that means light must not be present. In actuality, darkness can exist without light, in fact the very definition of darkness is without light, and light itself is simply seen as "not-darkness". Darkness could have existed before the universe was created, before the first source of light even existed.

Similarly, peace and war does not require one another to exist. In a (theoretical) time before war, a time before humanity has advanced enough to create societies, the act of war did not exist. There were hunts for food, disputes between (neanderthals) people, but war itself did not actually exist. It was an era of peace, but only when society advanced enough to produce war, did war begin to exist and disturb peace.

Take for example, the animal kingdom. Do we say rabbits live in peace? Aside from the natural order of predation, rabbits exist in harmony with one another, they live in peace. Does war exist among rabbits? Are rabbits even capable of war? Let's take a better example, the lion. Lions naturally live in packs, and will hunt lesser beings. They are at the top of the food chain and lay out territories in which they exist and hunt. They can be said to be at peace, but if two different packs of lions decide to fight over territory or superiority, can we not asy that they are warring?

So what is the difference that exists between rabbit and lion? The difference is the advancement in behavior within the species. Rabbits tend to live quite randomly whereas lions form packs, and even claim territory. It is only because "packs" and "territory" exists that war can exist.

But i deter. Ultimately, peace can exist without war, and in fact before conflict is even possible, and before life even exists, the universe is at peace. War is only created and formed later (and arguably we conceptualize war and peace and defined them as such), but this does not mean that peace had never existed until then. Just because we have yet to conceptualize something does not mean it never existed in the first place, and just because we link two concepts together does not mean they cannot exist without one another. Darkness can exist without light, and in fact if light never existed, it would be conceptualize as "everything", and peace can exist without war, if war never existed then peace would be conceptualize as "the state of now" or the "state of living"

tsuto
Post #364321 - Reply to (#364315) by MapleSyrup
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Catnapper
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4:05 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 3479


Quote from MapleSyrup
Quote from tsuto
What? Peace is a concept that has meaning only among rational beings, so unless you are considering there is inteligent life outside earth, I think you are looking for another word.

And the asking about definitions leads really to nowhere. There are accepted definitions of some words, but if you mean there should be one that everyone will recognize as being "THE" definition, then I don't think you will like where that path leads you laugh


. . . the first part is what I was talking about, you put a defintion on peace, and the one I generally have as well, but everything you can interpret is relative so in THEORY you could say that if you have a clan of animals are fighting over territory, then it's a war.

that's why I said we need definitions, is peace simply the absence of war, or is it a state in which humans are not in war with each other? roll eyes

mind you, remember that peace has more meaning potential than one to begin with laugh


Using a term on a field it doesn't really apply doesn't make that usage correct. So, in theory, that is incorrect. Yes, you can say that, but no, it won't be correct.

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This week's favorites:

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fr33noob
Post #364324 - Reply to (#364320) by Vudoodude
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0n3 Winged
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4:18 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 603


Quote from Vudoodude
Quote from darkraiders
Complete peace is impossible since to have peace you need war like to have light you need darkness 1 can't live without the other it's sad but thats how it work.


See, I always question statements like this. Theoretically, say you have a single spherical container known as the universe, and inside of it there is no source of light whatsoever. Therefore the entire theoretical universe is immersed in complete darkness. Darkness does not need light to exist, in fact darkness is the ABSENCE of light. Darkness does not exist where light exists. To assume that darkness needs light to exist is faulty, because darkness itself is not created by light, but exists when light is not present.

We only view darkness conceptually in relation to light because of the relationship the two tend to share, if light is present then darkness does not exist, and if darkness is present then that means light must not be present. In actuality, darkness can exist without light, in fact the very definition of darkness is without light, and light itself is simply seen as "not-darkness". Darkness could have existed before the universe was created, before the first source of light even existed.

Similarly, peace and war does not require one another to exist. In a (theoretical) time before war, a time before humanity has advanced enough to create societies, the act of war did not exist. There were hunts for food, disputes between (neanderthals) people, but war itself did not actually exist. It was an era of peace, but only when society advanced enough to produce war, did war begin to exist and disturb peace.

Take for example, the animal kingdom. Do we say rabbits live in peace? Aside from the natural order of predation, rabbits exist in harmony with one another, they live in peace. Does war exist among rabbits? Are rabbits even capable of war? Let's take a better example, the lion. Lions naturally live in packs, and will hunt lesser beings. They are at the top of the food chain and lay out territories in which they exist and hunt. They can be said to be at peace, but if two different packs of lions decide to fight over territory or superiority, can we not asy that they are warring?

So what is the difference that exists between rabbit and lion? The difference is the advancement in behavior within the species. Rabbits tend to live quite randomly whereas lions form packs, and even claim territory. It is only because "packs" and "territory" exists that war can exist.

But i deter. Ultimately, peace can exist without war, and in fact before conflict is even possible, and before life even exists, the universe is at peace. War is only created and formed later (and arguably we conceptualize war and peace and defined them as such), but this does not mean that peace had never existed until then. Just because we have yet to conceptualize something does not mean it never existed in the first place, and just because we link two concepts together does not mean they cannot exist without one another. Darkness can exist without light, and in fact if light never existed, it would be conceptualize as "everything", and peace can exist without war, if war never existed then peace would be conceptualize as "the state of now" or the "state of living"


i like your point, "state of now", but isn't that just a compremise? for its exsistence to be eternal then simple eliminiton is cause, ever considered the fact that it is within our nature to seek greed. remember we don't live a communist sociaty we live in a capitalist one.
The theory of gaia states for things to live harmouniously we should adapt acordingly, we don't...amoung humans this theory is but an illusion. and since we refuse to die like a virus and seek greed? perhaps this peace may never exist?

oh and "light" is a source of energy, think of it this way, the existance of infinity to light can never be achived since dankness exist withing the universe already meaning there is always darkness even if light exists. Since the light is not infinite then we curently have darkness existing etenarly, you only see compremise within the space of a certain place and time.


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