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Japan's Explicit Content Bills

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Dr. Love
Post #374916 - Reply to (#374644) by Dr. Love
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1:31 pm, Apr 28 2010
Posts: 8855


Quote from Dr. Love

Elaboration on this post.

Osaka Lists 8 Boys-Love Mags Designated as 'Harmful'

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Serafimangel
Post #374923
Member

2:38 pm, Apr 28 2010
Posts: 21


Personally, I don't know. I wouldn't really mind if it were banned. Putting prepubescent children in sexual situations, even if they are just drawings doesn't appeal to me. It's not so much the question of whether children are being directly harmed by this, which they clearly are not (unlike child porn etc.) but more the question of whether it makes the idea of children doing such things more integrated in society, more normal in real life.
But then the video game argument which has been raging on for years begs the same question about violence and murder. Although wars have been raging for centuries, child porn and abuse is a bit different. I mean, you can say porn isn't harmful, but it can be; porn addiction has skyrocketed over the past few years, with some guys unable to have sex unless it is with porn (even in the background), and there are arguments that it makes man disrespectful to women etc. It is clear that media can influence people, it's the extent that is unclear.
I would probably be for banning lolicon and shotacon. But that's just my own opinion.

celestialradiance
Post #375046 - Reply to (#373215) by Identity Crisis
Member

2:04 am, Apr 29 2010
Posts: 1


Quote from Identity Crisis
I honestly don't understand what's wrong with the world today.

Get on stopping actual child porn and rape and murder and then come back to this if it means so much after, you dumb fucks.

They just want to seem like they're doing SOMETHING.

Ha~ I whole heartedly agree.
Does the government not have other, more prominent issues at hand? I'm sure from a logical perspective stopping actual child porn, rape and murder should hold higher precedence than banning manga. Are they serious about this?
I'm not a fan of lolicon, or shota, it's not my thing, but it's the fact that the government is interfering with this that's the issue.
Why don't they ban horror and gore films?
I'm as inclined to rip out someone's bowels and decorate my house with them after watching a horror film as I am inclined to rape a child after reading a shotacon/lolicon manga.
And just as I am not tempted to buy a gun and shoot people after reading about a crime, I'm not tempted to screw my brother after reading an incest story.
This is a trespass on people's freedom of expression, is it not? :/
Stop actual child porn, lay off the manga. There is hardly a correlation between the two. Manga is a fictional 2D expression from the mangaka, not the real thing. The problem arises when people fail to see the difference between a picture of child and an actual child.

Nisserman states it quite correctly.

Quote from Nisseman
Nothing should ever be censored in any media. If you don´t like it don´t watch/read/play it.


Quote from Hell_Clues
But when its elementary, under developed, tiny kids, and you're defending manga specifically made so you'd pull out your penis and start stroking it, or start sticking things in your vagina, then how can you defend it.

I don't particularly about it but I wouldn't defend lolicon porn.

So, what? If someone with a foot fetish masturbates to an erotic image of a foot, that image should be banned?

I'm not for lolicon or shota. I'm for freedom of expression and media. The fact is that if this passes, this is only the start; the beginning of government intervention and limitation on something they shouldn't meddle with.

Quote from Hell_Clues
And let's take this in the context of japan, where people are getting arrested for sticking cameras in schools to videotape people. Where lolicon is actually having an impact on their society and not from your faraway perspective.

For you to say that, you assume those sick people are taking such actions due to the impact of reading or watching lolicon. However, you will have to run a test and a study. Such a statement holds no validity otherwise.

In your words, "let's take this in the context of america, where people are getting arrested for murdering and raping people. Where crime shows are actually having an impact on our society." I think it's about time to halt the broadcasting of television series and the publishing of stories and graphic novels.

Last edited by lambchopsil at 7:01 am, Apr 29

Vudoodude
Post #375075
Member

4:33 am, Apr 29 2010
Posts: 305


Don't forget, priests and bishops are being charged globally for sexually harassing children. They love shota and loli mangas, right? I mean, the most prevalent child molestations i hear of all happen around europe and north america, and although it's partially the media's fault for over-emphasizing it, I've known people in my own town who were sexually molested by a priest. Don't forget the people who go to cuba, thailand, or poorer countries where child prostition is common, and using those services there. They all read shota/loli manga, right? Child molestation exists everwhere, and shota/loli manga isn't the problem. They're simply TRYING to pin it as a problem.

and once again, reread the several references in which pornography actually decrease sex related crimes

Nisseman
Post #375157 - Reply to (#375075) by Vudoodude
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A bomb!
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3:10 pm, Apr 29 2010
Posts: 479


Quote from Vudoodude
Don't forget, priests and bishops are being charged globally for sexually harassing children. They love shota and loli mangas, right? I mean, the most prevalent child molestations i hear of all happen around europe and north america, and although it's partially the media's fault for over-emphasizing it, I've known people in my own town who were sexually molested by a priest. Don't forget the people who go to cuba, thailand, or poorer countries where child prostition is common, and using those services there. They all read shota/loli manga, right? Child molestation exists everwhere, and shota/loli manga isn't the problem. They're simply TRYING to pin it as a problem.

and once again, reread the several references in which pornography actually decrease sex related crimes

Ye and the only thing they need to do to so 99% of all priests would stop molesting would be to let them get married.

asrodeia
Post #375584
Member

6:01 pm, May 1 2010
Posts: 40


I've never been much for shota and lolicon stuff, and really don't like it that much, but what is getting me upset is that those aren't the only things going, and other stuff is getting dragged along. Why does the entire internet have to be G-rated?

Vagabond was taken off Mangafox(Because that so has shotacon/lolicon in it)(<==Sarcasm, just in case). Ok, those are some mature themes... but really, it just doesn't make sense. There are MOVIES with REAL PEOPLE with REAL LOOKING BLOOD AND GORE that aren't banned... they're just rated.

Under Grand Hotel was also removed from Mangafox. It's a BL about rape in jail, etc... Because reading that makes us all want to go to jail and get raped? I mean really. Freedom of the internet. I started reading these kinds of things(BL, one yuri(I find I don't really like yuri)) to try to figure out if I was asexual or not, and despite the fact that I have never been sexually attracted to ANYONE, have been able to determine that I am not. I have to thank all this manga(not shota/loli) for saving me hours of fruitless searching on google, although I am still concerned over my lack of inclination to be in a relationship... but enough about me, just stating how curious and NON-MINOR (I am in the 18+ category) peoples can answer questions about sexuality etc.

Quote from Nisseman
Nothing should ever be censored in any media. If you don´t like it don´t watch/read/play it.

Sorry for being all literal and picking at the statement, I just can't resist... as long as it's FICTIONAL, (with the exception of news, etc.)... Just ignore this bit here. I just couldn't help myself. Take it as a form of OCD...

To me echi manga is manga where the main character is male, and has perverted(thinking of the word, originally just meant to corrupt... so if someone is perverted for having sexual thoughts, that would imply that it is wrong, and abnormal, for them to have those sexual thoughts, which is just not true in adolescence.

I seem to have lost my train of thought. I have noticed that I have begun to make new paragraphs before finishing the old ones, and going off on tangents...(my worst enemy when writing a research paper... there's so much interesting stuff on the internet!) and am sure to have unfinished sentences in here, and I don't feel like looking for them, as I need to study for my finals, but one last thing...
Quote from celestialradiance
Why don't they ban horror and gore films?
I'm as inclined to rip out someone's bowels and decorate my house with them after watching a horror film as I am inclined to rape a child after reading a shotacon/lolicon manga.
And just as I am not tempted to buy a gun and shoot people after reading about a crime, I'm not tempted to screw my brother after reading an incest story.
This is a trespass on people's freedom of expression, is it not? :/


EXACTLY! Horror is MUCH worse! Oh, the hours I spent at night terrified of that rabbit from donnie darko... eek

The issue here should not be whether to ban it or not, but how to better keep it away from underage viewers.

Dr. Love
Post #376083
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 Member

8:50 am, May 3 2010
Posts: 8855


Update:

Tokyo Reps: 'Nonexistent Youth' Bill May Still Pass in June

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Nashnir
Post #432006
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Member

11:38 am, Dec 15 2010
Posts: 630


UPDATE:
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/12/15/tokyo-manga-ban- signed-into-law/


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And here we go.
devioustrevor
Post #432056
Member

7:01 pm, Dec 15 2010
Posts: 307


Won't all this do is convince the manga publishers to leave Tokyo for another prefecture?

StarlightDreams
Post #432180
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Lowly Member
Member

4:22 am, Dec 16 2010
Posts: 3891


This.is.so.stupid.
Shintaro Ishihara just seriously needs to croak already. He does so many stupid things.

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gringe
Post #432189
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Member

5:36 am, Dec 16 2010
Posts: 111


The thing is, we don't know what affect this will have, if any. I don't agree with the bill, but I don't think it's the end of the world that so many people are predicting. Publishers are openly opposed to it, and the bill may just indirectly create even more extreme manga in protest. The Tokyo Anime Festival has already been effectively ruined because practically all of the notable publishers are boycotting it, and it's not like most of the Japanese are too fond of the bill either. There was something like 96% disapproval on a poll taken on NicoNico Douga. So who knows, it may just get repealed if people protest it hard enough.

Either way, we don't know yet if the Tokyo government actually intends to enforce this strictly or if it's just symbolic and in place "just in case." I certainly hope this won't make any big changes, anyway...

m0u5e
Post #432196 - Reply to (#374923) by Serafimangel
Member

6:08 am, Dec 16 2010
Posts: 7


Quote from Serafimangel
Personally, I don't know. I wouldn't really mind if it were banned. Putting prepubescent children in sexual situations, even if they are just drawings doesn't appeal to me. It's not so much the question of whether children are being directly harmed by this, which they clearly are not (unlike child porn etc.) but more the question of whether it makes the idea of children doing such things more integrated in society, more normal in real life.
But then the video game argument which has been raging on for years begs the same question about violence and murder. Although wars have been raging for centuries, child porn and abuse is a bit different. I mean, you can say porn isn't harmful, but it can be; porn addiction has skyrocketed over the past few years, with some guys unable to have sex unless it is with porn (even in the background), and there are arguments that it makes man disrespectful to women etc. It is clear that media can influence people, it's the extent that is unclear.
I would probably be for banning lolicon and shotacon. But that's just my own opinion.


Oh. Oh. Oh...

Is it really time for freedom and liberty 101? While YOU personally may not care about it, you would if you realized that this is the first of many steps to oppress freedom of expression. When will you care? Perhaps when it begins to impede on YOUR rights and desires. Like you, I have little interest in shotacon / loli works, but I respect the rights of those who care for such works. If they begin to ban loli / shota because of a *perceived* notion that it causes BAD to individuals, then what is next? Violence on TV, artwork because individuals judge it obscene? How do you even classify a subjective thing as obscenity? If you don't like it, don't read it, but it is wrong to impede on other's rights just because you don't care for it.

I would also like to point out that statistics are just a tool that help tell a story. I don't know where you got this statistic that "porn addiction rates are rising" but I would like to point out that, first off: Even if you DID find statistical evidence that porn addiction rates ARE rising, you cannot prove what causes what. Correlation doesn't prove causation. For example, there are a variety of explanations to show WHY porn addiction rates may be higher today than they were before. One explanation that explains this without actually showing that porn addiction rates being actually higher, is that there is more research and evaluations occurring which in turn show a direct increase. The only way to "prove it" is to perform a laboratory study under controlled conditions in which you could show that porn addiction was significantly higher in a group that consumed it voraciously and vice versa. Even then, I would question the ecological validity.

Jesus Christ, what's next? Book burnings because certain ideologies and thoughts are bad?

And before people say: "You're over reacting, this is only Japan." You should re-evaluate a developed nations impact in this global economy. Other countries, and specifically, conservatives in those countries will point to Japan and exclaim, "Look! They did that there, we should follow in their footsteps!" The road to hell is paved with good intention. Perhaps their intentions are good: That they want to i.e. protect children,etc (easy to win when you use children to pad your political arguments), but unfortunately that is an unconvincing argument for everyone who practices logical and reasoning.

PS: There are proponents in the media who would lead you believe that violence is correlated with violent video games. The false is claim and there are plenty of studies and evidence to support this. I recommend you *start* by googling Bandura's Bobo Doll studies. I also reject the notion that pornography creates sexual predators, molesters, or pedophiles.

Last edited by m0u5e at 12:44 pm, Dec 16

technomo12
Post #432207
Member

7:26 am, Dec 16 2010
Posts: 2


all i can say is that Ishihara will get a really really big can of ass whoopin after april and july because this will drastically effect the already falling economy of japan

and now with this im pretty sure it will leave and even BIGGER blow to its fragile existance nto tomention nor korea and russia are already readying to colonize the northen islands

soo in short Ishihara made japan screw it self that is all

on the good side less ecchi stuff and more story to manga meaning better quality rather than full blown fanservice only



Contently
Post #432209 - Reply to (#432056) by devioustrevor
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El Psy Congroo.
Member

7:52 am, Dec 16 2010
Posts: 845


Quote from devioustrevor
Won't all this do is convince the manga publishers to leave Tokyo for another prefecture?

This is what i wanna know Dx Without having to read every article lol >>

technomo12
Post #432210
Member

7:59 am, Dec 16 2010
Posts: 2


its either the law will fail and be forgotten or akihabara and the comiket will have to be move outside of tokyo and become the new NEO TOKYO >_< taht everything is bsutling and could easily overthrow the old tokyo due to its GDP

sigh such an optimistic dream its noh?? >_<

still ishihara can suck balls for all i care because he is contradicting himself being he was a novelist of some sort creaking novels that depict Guro and other dult actions

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