Well, it gave the story a move-on... finally! So I liked it.

I was first like WTF when Jiraiya talked to Tsunade and then like WTH at the end of the chapter!Can't wait for next week!

________________

gahh!!!! stupid sasuke!!! that idiot!! hope itachi somehow suddenly takes a personlalinterest in naruto and let sasuke boil in hate-jealousy!!!

I doubt that it'd be hate jealousy. It'll be for the same reason someone successfully kills someone else in the show, only it'll be Sasuke fighting instead.

I think they will fight and when it looks like it comes to an end naruto or someone else gets there.Or maybe they'll just talk and Itachi disapears after that.

and it somehow looks like Itachi's going to betray Akatsuki, since I don't see another reason why he should talk to Naruto...

________________

not like itachi told naruto anything useful anyways...

even if sasuke and itachi duked it out, it wouldn't last long, or involve much real fighting...

i see a lot of talking and yelling from sasuke for the next 2~3 chapters, with a side of sharingan useage from itachi.

________________

You know, calling those who do not believe Naruto is the best shounen manga "Unintelligible" (for those who don't know, this is basically calling them idiots, unintelligent, or hard to understand), says alot about the type of person you are.

While I do enjoy Naruto, I wouldn't call it the best Shounen manga out there. I think that still belongs to Dragon Ball. In terms of how popular it was, and still is to this day, not to mention it inspired a young Kishimoto Masashi (Not to mention is twin brother, Seishi (Go read 666Satan, its very good), says alot to the ever lasting popularity of Dragon Ball. To alot of Americans, it was also their first anime or manga.

I'd say if ANYTHING has a chance at toping the populartiy of Dragon Ball, it probably won't be Naruto, it'll more than likely be One Piece.

Thats not to say I don't like Naruto (I actually laughed out loud at what Jiraiya told Tsunade in the bar scene in this very chapter (Also, isn't that the first time he's made joke about her breast size without her trying to beat him to death?), I enjoy it, and have for along time. I just don't personally feel its the best.

Reading your post, and hearing you openly state that because thats my opinion, and possibly others, that makes me an unintelligible person really annoyed me, more so than angered me. Hence why I have typed up this post.

Please, do not openly call people unintelligent (or any other synonym of the word). It is very rude, and not appreciated.

________________
Welcome to Manga-Updates!
If you're new, please read the rules.
If you're returning, please follow them.

Not meant as a personal assault Kaioh but many of the arguments I've heard do not have logic behind them they seem like 'personal attacks' on those of us who do like the manga...calling us Narutards or saying Naruto sucks. That's not logical it's just unintelligible mess. That's why I post this on the Naruto board and not on the DBZ board. Likewise, I respectfully disagree..it's my opinion as it is yours..but Dragonball and One Piece amaze me that anyone would liken those to good shonen manga..fun? YES Good even..Yes but a great Shonen manga where characters power up for no reason and defeat enemies in incredibly violent ways only to NOT kill them and have them return..they seem more like American comicbooks..very lame, very about the POSE and not the actual story or action. In America by the way, Naruto has far surpassed any manga in history in both sales and merchandise and ratings. These are very widely reported facts. Please do not take my defense of Naruto as a put down and please do not lash out against fans of the series.

I never lashed out at fans of Naruto. I calmy and concisely stated my opinion in regards to your original post.

Also, in regards to Naruto and America, I am very well aware of the fact that its a top selling book. However, that doesn't make it the top selling manga in history (That would, based on the sheer length of the manga, go to Kochikame, although it hasn't been released in America, it started in the mid 70's, and is still going strong today at well over 150 volumes. Do the math, even if it has only ONE million fans (Which I am positive it has more), and they each buy ONE tankoubon, thats still 150 million plus volumes purchased). Also, you're leaving out the fact that Bleach, Fullmetal Alchemist, and Fruits Basket are also on the top selling manga list (Statistics taken from the USA Today Booklist, of which the aforementioned manga's happen to actually get on when new volumes are released).

As for One Piece, the manga doesn't break any ground here because of all the editing. The anime series, aswell, has had little luck finding its audience, this is due to a mishandling of the liscense on 4Kids part.

In regards to Dragon Ball, the manga came out in America at a point when Manga wasn't well known (It was one of the first, actually), and instead of being sold in graphic novel (tankoubon) format, Viz split the chapters up into a comic book format, thus making them exempt from such ratings as the USA Today booklist.

You main argument in regards to this seems to be characters getting stronger for no real reason, and then beating the "bad guy" and not killing him.

You just described the fight between Naruto and Sasuke, before he fled Konoha villiage. They both "powered up", seemingly out of no where, and fought. Sasuke was the bad guy. However, unlike what you mentioned the bad guy DID win. Still, its exaclty the same thing you said.

Claiming One Piece has nothing do with the story is an idiotic statement to make, and its clearly made from someone who HASN'T read the manga (or seen the anime). They have ENTIRE PLOT STORYLINES dedicated to devloping characters, aswell as their relationships with the other characters.

The first main story like this is Usopp's story, but I would cite Nico Robin's as a better reference. They took 60 or so episodes to build the relationship between her and the rest of the crew, as well as spending four episodes, an entire month's worth, in a flashback explaining her past. If thats not character development or plot, than I have no idea what is.

Again, you claim Naruto has surpassed everything in ratings. Did you know that while Naruto gets quite a bit of viewers in Japan, One Piece gets almost double the amount of viewers?

I want to remind you, and everyone else reading, that I am typing this as a fan of Naruto, aswell. Its a great series, yes. But its not the best. When considering something for the title of best, you've got to step back into a objective point of view and see everything how it really is. Thats what I do. Heck, I like Dragon Ball and One Piece, but neither of those are my favorite.

The point of that is that even while I state all these facts and ramble on with information, I am not at all expecting you to change your opinion. Naruto's your favorite, thats great. But trying to sit there and tell me its the best shounen manga is just absurd, and indeed asinine.

Naruto has yet to see the success that Dragon Ball has, in America or Japan. At the height of its popularity, Dragon Ball Z was being shown four times a day on Cartoon Network (And sometimes they'd throw on Dragon Ball aswell). They've yet to really show Naruto outside its Saturday time slot (Not including the recent Naruto Hundo marathon they're doing).

A key reason I state Dragon Ball as probably being the best shounen series is because that even to this day, you can go to Japan and still see advertisements for its products everywhere. This from a manga series that ended in 1995, over ten years ago (twelve to be exact). A series that was so popular, they created a third series of an entirely new plot because fans demanded more, even though the creator didn't want to continue it.

They only thing fans have every really demanded of Naruto is that they end the filler arcs which comprised of the last half or so of the original series (Which I must admit, I stopped watching, because it was all boring and severely lacked the quality story telling I enjoyed of Masashi Kishimoto (Although, in all fairness, his twin brother has that same good story telling ability).

While you may find your argument in this case a very sound one, it is lacking in many things, including a valid point.

I hope that I one again calmly stated what I wanted to. Accusing me of lashing out at you (a fan of Naruto) in your last reply was an unjust accusation.

Before I post this, I want to say right here at the end that it is not my intention to be rude, in any way. Sometimes when I type posts, it may sound like that. Believe me, thats not my intention at all. One of the draw backs of using the internet is that you cannot use your voice to give proper feeling and linguistics to what you're trying to say. That is why I always strive to try and use proper grammar, as much as I can.

However, if I have over looked grammar here and there, I may come back and fix it later on. I have been up for 16 hours, running on four hours of sleep, so I am very exhausted.

________________
Welcome to Manga-Updates!
If you're new, please read the rules.
If you're returning, please follow them.

lol. Naruto is prob the most discussed manga on the net atm. It's very easy to (not) like it by the way it is presented. It turns away from those standard "Shonen Rules" by actually having lots of deaths (not only by random characters), and many other factors which define "Shonen". But it is a shonen. Thats one of my my bets on why people don't like it...
It's pretty much unavoidable to not be aware of it if you are in the manga communety. And considering the immense poularety of it it's easy to imagine why people like to bash it. It's bad for the overall rating, but it's also unavoidable. Quite sad but thats how it is.

I liked the recent chapter. Jiraya talking 'bout Tsunades boobs like it was the most natural thing in the world, and it actually sounded good. It was beutiful, perverted, funny and emotional. Brilliant!

EDIT:
To Kaioh... If you wan't to compare qualety with sale rates, wait at least 10 years. Something poular doesn't mean it's "better" that something less popular. You know that. Pop music is a good example here. While some big-shots sell for millions in a few years it may be forgotten. The true classics stays on people minds forever. I believe both Naruto and OP will be just that.

Last edited by gjoerulv at 3:40 am, Aug 19 2007

________________
mwa ha ha ha...
Check out my FF7 hardcore mod (PC version only): http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=6818.0

best is an opinion. I don't like one piece really or dragonball that much, so theyre both not on my "best list." If you mean by best selling though, obviously dragonball's got a ridiculous head start, considering it's 10-20 years older.

@gjoerulv- yea the boob conversation was great. Espcially w/ how serious Part II has been, those little funny parts help keep it all fresh

And something totally worthless and plain might sell a lot if the totally worthless and plain people buy it.

And I have to say that in my opinion, Naruto is far better than Dragonball. The characters, for one, have a more human quality to them. True, Dragonball seems to be a more traditional shonen, but I'm more attached to Naruto than I ever was to Dragonball.

Nothing is deeper than a worthless statement.


________________
mwa ha ha ha...
Check out my FF7 hardcore mod (PC version only): http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=6818.0