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How Do YOU Scan Raws?

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CatzCradle
Post #398407
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Genderbent Funghi
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7:43 am, Aug 10 2010
Posts: 1702


Just tried scanning a few pages of my raw I got today, and realized mid-way... I HAD NO FRICKIN IDEA WHAT I WAS DOING. dead

So I decide to google up some guides, but found them somewhat vague so I was still kinda confused.

Anyway, my questions are: for CS3, what colour mode would produce the best scans; 256 colour or 24 bit colour? What paper size setting should they be? What's the difference between flatbed and document reader?

And if anyone had any good tips for aspiring scanners (and for bending the spines), it'd be more than appreciated~


http://img820.imageshack.us/f/scand.png/

Last edited by CatzCradle at 8:25 am, Aug 10

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GGpX
Post #398411
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Dark Knight
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8:11 am, Aug 10 2010
Posts: 341


Use IrfanView to scan. Much simpler.

I scan black & white pages in 300dpi, color pages in 600dpi. Scaning them both as .TIFF files.

If I didn't have a cap on the bandwidth, I'd probably scan it at higher resolution.

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CatzCradle
Post #398527
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Genderbent Funghi
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8:21 pm, Aug 10 2010
Posts: 1702


Ah, I see. Thanks for the reply~ smile

Does rotating .TIFF also degrade the quality? And do people usually scan with or without the lid on?

confused

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Toto
Post #398544
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9:38 pm, Aug 10 2010
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You should have the lid down, and if you unbind the volume you should tape a black sheet of paper (construction paper) on the inside of the lid to minimize the chance at getting the other side of the page.

Bad example... but it's the only one I have on hand.
http://a.imageshack.us/img29/5844/11png.jpg

Look at the shoulder, do you see the almost intestine-esque image... that's from the other side of the page. If the page was mostly white, it would have been a lot worse.



If you scan the book while still bound, then you should press the book firmly to the scanner to minimize the gutter (some put the lid down... if it fits... then weigh volume down with heavier books... like dictionaries and encyclopedias).

Don't know about the rotations.

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CatzCradle
Post #398847 - Reply to (#398544) by Toto
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Genderbent Funghi
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8:46 pm, Aug 11 2010
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Quote from Toto
You should have the lid down, and if you unbind the volume you should tape a black sheet of paper (construction paper) on the inside of the lid to minimize the chance at getting the other side of the page.

Bad example... but it's the only one I have on hand.
http://a.imageshack.us/img29/5844/11png.jpg

Look at the shoulder, do you see the almost intestine-esque image... that's from the other side of the page. If the page was mostly white, it would have been a lot worse.



If you scan the book while still bound, then you should press the book firmly to the scanner to minimize the gutter (some put the lid down... if it fits... then weigh volume down with heavier books... like dictionaries and encyclopedias).

Don't know about the rotations.


Thank you for the reply~

Oh, does keeping the lid down produce better scans? I tried doing that while bending my book, but it was too difficult to continue, so I tried scanning a few pages with lid open.
However, I decided momentarily put a hold on that too out of fear what the laser can/will do to my eyes and skin. bigrazz

I've haven't thought about what happens if it 'bleeds,' but that sounds like a great idea. Does this still apply is you don't unbind it?

(Btw, sorry if this is slightly off-topic, but that looks like a surrealistically awesome manga. What series is it from?)


Thanks again! biggrin

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NightSwan
Post #398850
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Mad With a Hat
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8:53 pm, Aug 11 2010
Posts: 4592


Well, I have no practical experience in scanning manga, but I know a tiny bit of theory...

In my opinion, if you want to scan manga for scanlation purposes, I think you should definitely unbind it.
Some do it by sticking it into the microwave for a bit (sounds totally crazy to me, but it loosens out the glue and whatnot).
Another method is by applying hot air on each glued side using a hair-drier.
I think this one is pretty good. If you're patient...
And it's easier to debind it, if you want...

And that manga does look awesome. : D
*wants to know as well*

Oh, are you for hire, CC? biggrin

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Toto
Post #398866
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10:26 pm, Aug 11 2010
Posts: 2276


Well, you don't really need to put the lid down if you don't unbind the book... but you still need to weigh it down. If you ever used a xerox machine to scan textbooks, you would see that the inner edge letters are blurry and illegible if you don't (important information is lost... sometimes it is easy to guess what was said... sometimes not).

The only time you have to have the lid down is when the book is unbound + black paper.


As for the bleeding on the bound books, it probably wont happen as the other side can not be seen (the light is blocked by all the other pages), but I have never done that...


Here's a link to what I was talking about with the black paper...
http://hem.bredband.net/pnyxtr/scanning/ScanGear_help.html





As for the series the scan came from, it's Berserk; however, it is not MIURA Kentaro's design. It is an homage to Hieronymus Bosch's The Garden of Earthly Delights triptych specifically the right and final panel... Hell.

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Grumpy
Post #398935
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rawr
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2:50 am, Aug 12 2010
Posts: 161


1. Laser from the scanner does not harm your skin or eyes. Unless... ur trying to scan your eyeballs... Might burn into your retina. XD If you feel uncomfortable with the very bright light, just look away or close your eyes. If you were serious about that comment... sarcasm is so hard to read.
2. Rotation is something for the cleaner to worry about. lol~~
3. Lid down vs lid up: well, if it's bound, lid can't even touch the surface... But when dealing with unbound books, just press down firmly and then let the cleaner deal with it.
4. If you don't want to deal with huge files, even PNG (8bit greyscale for b/w) and JPG (hq) are plenty sufficient. Even with lossy formats like jpeg, as they get somewhat reduced in resolution for release, all the jpeg's artifacts disappear into the merger with adjacent pixels. Just don't do like maximum compression (lowest quality). Plus, the release will be in such formats anyways. TIFF is typically lossless but has customizable compression methods, some which are lossy. But you probably can't even access those. You would use TIFF if you don't want a single pixel being out of line and want the highest of quality which I think is rather uncalled for given that the print material itself is of likely lower quality and your scanner will be adding a crap load of noise.

But honestly, rather than asking people for exact best, it's best to just experiment and see which one is best. (Though, tips like backing it with black paper when dealing with rather reflective scanners is a great tip)

ps. Had me confused there with word 'bleeding' xD When you are dealing with physical prints, it kinda means something else... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleed_(printing) & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_bleeding_(printing)

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CatzCradle
Post #398986
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Genderbent Funghi
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7:11 am, Aug 12 2010
Posts: 1702


Thanks for all the great advice, everyone! eyes

@Nightswan
Yes, I have heard of those methods before. Thanks!
But personally if I can, I'd prefer to try keeping it binded for as long as I can. wink

Also, I guess you could say I'm kinda available for scanning raws.
I'll PM you the details. wink

@Toto
Oh, I see now. I'll be sure to keep that in mind then. smile wink grin
And thanks again for answer my question, haha. I am familiar with Hieronymus Bosch's work, but I didn't really strike me with anything until I saw the picture. laugh

@Grumpy
Ah, that's good to know. I feel a lot better now. (ues, I was quite serious *embarressed*) Thank you.
Although I'm aware it's usually the cleaner who's responsible for rotation, I also know a few people who are really picky with image degradation and prefer not have to rotate at all. --;;

Perhaps I should try .bmp instead? I heard it really helps in reducing the file size...

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pnyxtr
Post #398994
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9:01 am, Aug 12 2010
Posts: 142


Scanners don't use laser illuminators, don't worry on that account. Very bright light still isn't good for your eyes, so it's better to not look straight into the light if you can help it. (Though I think you'd have more problems with eyestrain rather than any damage to the retina as such.)

As for debinding, I really recommend it. It ends up being about the same amount of work as not debinding, but the result is much better. Using an iron is The Way to go here, of course.

As for rotation, there is no escape from it. Sure, you can try aligning the pages as much as you want while you scan them, but it will all be for nothing since the art is (practically) never printed straight anyway. A word of warning here too, don't jam the pages up against the edge of the scanner bed in an attempt to align them well. Most scanners ignore the areas closest to the edge, so you cut off too much for no good reason.

My own "flow" goes something like this:
Batch scan an arseload of pages at once, with IrfanView, at 600dpi. (And save as TIFF, just to keep things fast.)
Rotate them with my cruddy rotation app.
Batch level with PS, at the same time applying some slight filtering magic.
Autocrop what can be autocropped, and save as PNG. (Pages with black edges are for instance usually not possible to autocrop.)
Crush the PNGs.
Send off the hundreds of megs to unsuspecting editors.

Oh, and to answer one of your original questions, there's no real reason to scan black/white pages in more than 256-level greyscale. It can theoretically be better to use 24-bit colour and then converting with a bit of trickery in PS so you can keep most of your editing at (a somewhat) real 16-bit greyscale. But in practice, it doesn't make a difference in the end result. Colour pages must be 24-bit colour, of course.

CatzCradle
Post #399183
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Genderbent Funghi
Site Admin

5:19 am, Aug 13 2010
Posts: 1702


Thank you for the reassurance, pnyxtr~I will definitely keep your advice on colours in mind. smile

Hmm... I have seen that guide before, but I don't have an extra ironer available right now.

By auto-cropping, do you mean using the 'wand' tool?




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StarlightDreams
Post #399192
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6:29 am, Aug 13 2010
Posts: 3891


If you're going to scan manga for a scanlation group, I highly suggest debinding.
I'm too impatient to do that iron thing so I microwave it lol...45 seconds and I can debind about 1/4th of the book no problem. But before you put it in the microwave, be sure to bend the binding backwards so the pages don't get stuck together after melting the glue.

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pnyxtr
Post #399214 - Reply to (#399183) by CatzCradle
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8:17 am, Aug 13 2010
Posts: 142


Quote from CatzCradle
By auto-cropping, do you mean using the 'wand' tool?

Nope. I mean using my python/PIL script for the purpose.
But that would work as a batch action in PS too, it has an autocrop that works relatively well (on leveled pages that are mostly white against a black background, that is). It's just less work for me if I use the script.


puriinsu
Post #606943
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Low-Key Weeaboo
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4:35 pm, Jul 12 2013
Posts: 1


I used to debind my manga using the microwave method until an acquaintance's book set on fire @-@ I'm not sure if she had it in for too long or what, but I'd rather be safe than sorry...

Gradonil_Ral
Post #606946
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[ONeoRa] Co-Admin
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5:19 pm, Jul 12 2013
Posts: 196


I first debind the pages using a hairdryer (never tried the iron method - gonna do it the next time I debind), then I put the pages back together and put a few heavy books on top of them to make sure they're flat when I scan. I leave them under the pressure for about 24hrs.

Scanning:
I scan two pages at a time. I always leave some space between the pages, I put a black sheet of paper on top of them, I put an old A4 English coursebook on top of it and add some additional pressure with two heavy books on top of it. I do not close the lid - as good as my scanner is, the lid doesn't flatten the pages correctly, thus the books.

I scan at 300dpi and 150% page size. 600dpi takes too long and I like my pages to be at least 3000px high (after cropping).
I scan using Photoshop, since it lets me to split the (double) pages right away. I sometimes even rotate/crop them all. I usually save them as .psd - no need to save it as .tiff if I'm already in Photoshop. I just make a low res .jpg version for the translators.

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