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Swords or Guns

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Aizen-sensei
Post #626808 - Reply to (#626141) by Badkarma
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8:37 am, Jan 2 2014
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Quote from Badkarma
Yeah?

With no prior knowledge of swordsmanship, if I handed you a sword and told you to cut me in half, I'd be in half pretty quick. Or at least bleeding a lot...

With no previous experience of firing a gun, if I handed you an unloaded handgun, some bullets, and a magazine, I wonder how long it would take before you could shoot me.


Also, saying "it's just point and shoot" is like saying "Driving is easy! Just put gas in the car and it goes!" No, it's not that simple. Yeah, I get what you're saying. "'Gun X' will be just as powerful no matter who fires it", but still, if you think it's just "point and shoot", you've never fired a gun.


If you are talking about going up against someone who just stands there, staring out into space, not dodging or caring if he dies, then it doesnt really matter if you are handed a sword or a gun. Im pretty sure that even a revolver with 6 shots will be enough for you to hit the person, atleast once. Only a retard would miss, at point blank range, against an opponent that just stands there.

But if you are talking about an opponent that actually wants to live and is actively fighting against you, then nope, A gun would probably be better. A bullet is far harder to dodge than a sword, especially if weilded by amateurs. And thats not even taking into consideration the fact that you can outrun someone who is holding a sword, but you cant outrun a bullet. If you are chasing me with a sword, and i am holding nothing, I guarantee that you will get tired, faster than me. I suppose you could try throwing the sword at me while we are running, but im sure that would defeat the purpose of having a sword.



Knightzomegaz
Post #626814
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9:19 am, Jan 2 2014
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Quote from Aizen-sensei
But if you are talking about an opponent that actually wants to live and is actively fighting against you, then nope, A gun would probably be better. A bullet is far harder to dodge than a sword, especially if weilded by amateurs. And thats not even taking into consideration the fact that you can outrun someone who is holding a sword, but you cant outrun a bullet. If you are chasing me with a sword, and i am holding nothing, I guarantee that you will get tired, faster than me. I suppose you could try throwing the sword at me while we are running, but im sure that would defeat the purpose of having a sword.
 
Oh, got some good point there eh..
Given that you are strong and skilled enough to throw an actual sword,
heck, you might even cut yourself in the process

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xxmichellexx27f
Post #626817
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9:35 am, Jan 2 2014
Posts: 110


Swords are cool, but if I were to actually use something for protection, gun is better (as the distance is more convenient and I'm too scared to use sword)
In term of coolness, I find a crossbow awesome. Blunt weapons are also pretty good for first timer, I really like seeing a fighting scene where the guy uses long stick like kendo's and others XD

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Badkarma
Post #626844 - Reply to (#626814) by Knightzomegaz
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5:20 pm, Jan 2 2014
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Quote from Knightzomegaz

Oh, got some good point there eh..
Given that you are strong and skilled enough to throw an actual sword,
heck, you might even cut yourself in the process


No, it's a terrible point in that it's a reply to me, yet completely misses my point. Completely.

It wasn't my intention to debate how hard it is to use a gun or sword to kill someone. My point was that if I handed you one or the other, you'd automatically know the basic principle behind using a sword, and have the ability to use it.

Of course it's harder to kill someone with a sword! It's primitive, lacks any decent range, and the wielder's strength is a bigger factor, but at least because it's primitive, any clown knows what to do with it. You swing it, and things get cut. If you put the pointy end in the squishy thing, it bleeds and dies. Pretty self-explanatory. No, you don't know how to rend Heaven and Earth with it, but unless you're a complete moron, you know how it functions and can use it.

This is the point I'm illustrating. Smillo wrote that he or she'd pick guns because you wouldn't have to know how to use it. As a person who owns and has handled a variety of different guns, this statement trips my berserk button.

...

You don't have to know how to use it...?

WWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!?? That's insane! Do you even know how to load a handgun?? How 'bout a shotgun; you know how to load that too?? A rifle?? Know how to cock any of these weapons?? Hmmm?? Do you know if the safety's on, or how to even check?? My Glock tends to aim high, whereas my Ruger tends to aim low. Did you somehow automatically acquire that information by merely TOUCHING them!? What if your gun jams?? Do you know how to fix it?? Do you even know how difficult it is to make a good follow-up shot taking into consideration the blow-back?? Do you know what kind of trigger pull your gun has?? Can you pull the trigger without jerking the gun?? You know how loud guns are?? Did you know that without any ear protection, you WILL momentarily lose your hearing?? What about after you're done using it?? Do you know how to disassemble and clean them?? HMMMMMMMMMMMM??

"It's just point and shoot, guys!"

Oh, hey! You know what else?? Silver Surfer on the NES is an easy game! You just press buttons and win! Quantum physics is baby shit! You just calculate numbers and make conjectures! Baseball is easy! You just hit the ball and win! Having a baby is easy! You just find someone, have sex, and BOOM, baby! Writing is easy! You just write words and, BAM! Done! Life is easy! You just make muuuuunny and be happy! Weeeeeee!!! Everything is so damn easy because I'm on the internet writing that it's easy!!

...

...*ahem*

...

Anyway, that's all I'm saying. To go off on a tangent though...

Quote
And thats not even taking into consideration the fact that you can outrun someone who is holding a sword, but you cant outrun a bullet. If you are chasing me with a sword, and i am holding nothing, I guarantee that you will get tired, faster than me. I suppose you could try throwing the sword at me while we are running, but im sure that would defeat the purpose of having a sword.


Actually, I was imagining a more defensive scenario, where the person with the weapon has to defend themselves. If in ten seconds you're about to be beaten to a bloody pulp and you've never fired a gun, that is, loading the magazine, putting the magazine in the gun, cocking it, taking the safety off if it has one, aiming and pulling the trigger, then you're probably better off with a sword.

residentgrigo
Post #626852
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6:23 pm, Jan 2 2014
Posts: 52


As a former soldier i say guns. The Zombie Survival Guide says that the hunting rifle is the best way to survive and that a katana needs to be avoided at all cost. I would pick my old G36 for shure and maybe a Bajonettt addon when the zombies rise up. And yes the Gunblade is the WORST.

Knightzomegaz
Post #626857 - Reply to (#626844) by Badkarma
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6:42 pm, Jan 2 2014
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Quote from Badkarma
No, it's a terrible point in that it's a reply to me, yet completely misses my point. Completely.

It wasn't my intention to debate how hard it is to use a gun or sword to kill someone. My point was that if I handed you one or the other, you'd automatically know the basic principle behind using a ...

*Ahem*
Ohhh, you are so Awesome, I'd say that this is the very first long post that I actually did read the whole thing and still wanting more, some pretty good example there eh,,
I'm on your side now,, unless someone posts something that is more awesome than yours(I doubt anyone can)
*Cough*
HuH??

Edit:
Oh, your post is really so amusing that I had to read it again..
roll *Hoping you have some more**

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Aizen-sensei
Post #627677 - Reply to (#626844) by Badkarma
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4:56 am, Jan 8 2014
Posts: 4


Quote from Badkarma
No, it's a terrible point in that it's a reply to me, yet completely misses my point. Completely.

It wasn't my intention to debate how hard it is to use a gun or sword to kill someone. My point was that if I handed you one or the other, you'd automatically know the basic principle behind using a sword, and have the ability to use it.


Are you kidding me. Are you honestly going to say that most human beings alive today, if handed a gun, would not know which way the bullet comes out of? Or that you would pull the trigger and point it at someone in order to fire at them?

In terms of knowing the basic principle behind the sword, its pretty much the same as knowing the basic principle behind a Gun. Point, and shoot. Hold and slash. It really doesnt get any easier than this. Its so easy that even kids can hold AK-47s, and many do, and fire them. Id say that the "Basic" principle behind both weapons is similar.

Quote from Badkarma
Of course it's harder to kill someone with a sword! It's primitive, lacks any decent range, and the wielder's strength is a bigger factor, but at least because it's primitive, any clown knows what to do with it. You swing it, and things get cut. If you put the pointy end in the squishy thing, it bleeds and dies. Pretty self-explanatory. No, you don't know how to rend Heaven and Earth with it, but unless you're a complete moron, you know how it functions and can use it.

This is the point I'm illustrating. Smillo wrote that he or she'd pick guns because you wouldn't have to know how to use it. As a person who owns and has handled a variety of different guns, this statement trips my berserk button.


Then why bring up the point about how you would be able to cut someone in half, pretty quickly, or atleast make them bleed, as opposed to how long it would take before you could shoot someone? It sure as hell sounds like youre trying to say that its easier to harm or kill someone with a sword, than it is with a gun, when you clearly make a comparison between being able to cut or kill someone, as opposed to how many shots it would take for you to shoot someone.


Quote from Badkarma
...

You don't have to know how to use it...?

WWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!?? That's insane! Do you even know how to load a handgun?? How 'bout a shotgun; you know how to load that too?? A rifle?? Know how to cock any of these weapons?? Hmmm?? Do you know if the safety's on, or how to even check?? My Glock tends to aim high, whereas my Ruger tends to aim low. Did you somehow automatically acquire that information by merely TOUCHING them!? What if your gun jams?? Do you know how to fix it?? Do you even know how difficult it is to make a good follow-up shot taking into consideration the blow-back?? Do you know what kind of trigger pull your gun has?? Can you pull the trigger without jerking the gun?? You know how loud guns are?? Did you know that without any ear protection, you WILL momentarily lose your hearing?? What about after you're done using it?? Do you know how to disassemble and clean them?? HMMMMMMMMMMMM??


Now youre entering the territory of proficiency. As in, which is the weapon that allows you to more easily kill someone with a lack of training.

As I said before, Id be much more afraid of a maniac weilding a gun and wildly shooting at me, than I would be of a maniac weilding a sword and blindly slashing at me.

Now, ive learned both Kendo, and how to shoot. Guess which one took more lessons to grasp even the bare basics? And if i took only one lesson of each, guess which one id feel more safe with, if i ever got into a fight with? Or were mugged with? Or have to defend my friends and family, with?

Hell, even with no lessons, id still feel safer with a gun, if given the option between a sword and a gun.

I mean, everything you wrote, is important, But you dont need to know all that to be deadly with a gun. A baby can be deadly with a gun.





Quote from Badkarma
Actually, I was imagining a more defensive scenario, where the person with the weapon has to defend themselves. If in ten seconds you're about to be beaten to a bloody pulp and you've never fired a gun, that is, loading the magazine, putting the magazine in the gun, cocking it, taking the safety off if it has one, aiming and pulling the trigger, then you're probably better off with a sword.


As opposed to... Unsheathing the sword, moving your hands, your body and your sword into the right position so that you dont harm yourself, Putting enough force in your hands in order to swing at your opponent, hitting him with enough force that actually stops him...?

Lets ignore for the fact that, if were talking about a sword, then the length of the sword necessarily means that it takes larger movements and more effort to get it into position, as opposed to the smaller movements and less effort to Load, click off safety, aim and pull the trigger(Which can be done at point blank range, mind you). Lets ignore the fact that it takes far more strength to use a sword than it does a gun.

I think the point about defending yourself is that you would actually, oh, i dunno, stop the person from beating you to a pulp. I dont see that happening with a sword. Whether you choose FMJ or HP, the potential damage, ease and stopping power, caused by a Gun is far far higher.

Badkarma
Post #627717 - Reply to (#627677) by Aizen-sensei
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11:19 am, Jan 8 2014
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Quote from Aizen-sensei


Quote from badkarma
With no previous experience of firing a gun, if I handed you an unloaded handgun, some bullets, and a magazine, I wonder how long it would take before you could shoot me.


From the start, I've always implied an unloaded gun and the components to fire it. That's where the misunderstanding lies. Anyone who's never fired a gun wouldn't immediately, if ever, figure out what to do with the components; anyone looking at a sword can figure out that the sharp end makes 'em scream and bleed.

Sure, the basic principle behind firing a gun is to 'aim and fire', but again, I'm talking about an unloaded handgun. You know the basic principle of a gun, but with an unloaded gun, 'fire' just got a little more complicated.

This is why statements like this:

Quote
Gun, becasue you don`t have to know how to use it, just aim and pull the trigger


Will provoke a reaction, even if I understand what he's trying to say:

Quote from badkarma
Also, saying "it's just point and shoot" is like saying "Driving is easy! Just put gas in the car and it goes!" No, it's not that simple. Yeah, I get what you're saying. "'Gun X' will be just as powerful no matter who fires it", but still, if you think it's just "point and shoot", you've never fired a gun.


See?




Quote from Aizen-sensei
Now youre entering the territory of proficiency. As in, which is the weapon that allows you to more easily kill someone with a lack of training. blah blah blah...


?

That portion of my post more aimed at Smillo, who said he or she "doesn't have to know how to use it, just aim and pull the trigger". I also don't remember saying it was easy or easier to learn how to properly use a sword. My beef is that people come off like, "Point and shoot! Congratulations, now your a marksmen! That's all there is to know!"

But yeah, you'd have to be somewhat proficient to do anything productive in a reasonable amount of time with an unloaded gun. Unfortunately, the condition is that the person has no experience.

Quote from Aizen-sensei
As opposed to... Unsheathing the sword, moving your hands, your body and your sword into the right position so that you dont harm yourself, Putting enough force in your hands in order to swing at your opponent, hitting him with enough force that actually stops him...?


Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

I dunno, sir. Call me crazy, but I'm 100% certain you'd have a better shot at life fumbling with a sword than fumbling with an unloaded handgun, a magazine, and some bullets - provided you don't know about guns. Heck, I DO know about guns, yet I STILL might take the sword if I was given a rifle or something CRAZY like a sub-machine gun, since I don't know a lot about them.



Quote from Knightzomegaz
*Ahem*
Ohhh, you are so Awesome, I'd say that this is the very first long post that I actually did read the whole thing and still wanting more, some pretty good example there eh,,
I'm on your side now,, unless someone posts something that is more awesome than yours(I doubt anyone can)
*Cough*
HuH? ...


Sorry, but it turned out boring this time.

And that wasn't a long post from me: this is.

Don't read it; it'll give you cancer. It only stands as proof that I'm clinically insane.

Last edited by Badkarma at 4:12 am, May 24

Knightzomegaz
Post #627723 - Reply to (#627717) by Badkarma
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3:57 pm, Jan 8 2014
Posts: 1037


Owie, yeah, boring...
I looked at It but I wouldn‘t even read a single word, so long...

Why not try this:
Gunblade

Oh, you both got a point, yeah..

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Aizen-sensei
Post #627947 - Reply to (#627717) by Badkarma
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7:00 pm, Jan 10 2014
Posts: 4


Quote from badkarma
From the start, I've always implied an unloaded gun and the components to fire it. That's where the misunderstanding lies. Anyone who's never fired a gun wouldn't immediately, if ever, figure out what to do with the components; anyone looking at a sword can figure out that the sharp end makes 'em scream and bleed.



No, now youre mistaking ignorance with inexperience. I have plenty of friends who have never fired a Gun. But I also know for a fact that theyve seen enough television shows, and played enough shooters, to know how to load a gun, whether it be a revolver or an AK-47. They know what a safety is. They know the difference, and even where to change a weapon from semi to 3 round burst to auto. Even my mother knows how to load a revolver, based on her zero experience with ever touching a gun, but with her knowledge from watching TV shows.

I suppose if you took a man who lived in the 1500s and gave them an Ak-47 to load and shoot, he wouldnt know where the trigger is, let alone actually be able to fire it. But thats trivial, because you can just as well take a cave man who has never held or seen a blade before, and give him a sheathed Saber or a Katana, And i bet you it will take him more than a minute to even figure out that you can unsheath the sword. Infact, he would probably use it as a club, before he finds out that you can unsheath it.



Quote from badkarma
?

That portion of my post more aimed at Smillo, who said he or she "doesn't have to know how to use it, just aim and pull the trigger". I also don't remember saying it was easy or easier to learn how to properly use a sword. My beef is that people come off like, "Point and shoot! Congratulations, now your a marksmen! That's all there is to know!"

But yeah, you'd have to be somewhat proficient to do anything productive in a reasonable amount of with an unloaded gun. Unfortunately, the condition is that the person has no experience.


Im sure Smillo wasnt talking about the level of ignorance that you find in a cave man or a baby. Wouldnt you say that most people out there, who have seen television series about Guns, or played most of the generic FPS out there, would atleast know how to load a revolver?

And the point about the "Point and shoot" isnt "Congratulations, youre a marksman", its "Congratulations, you now carry the means to easily kill a person". Just like its not "Hold and stab, congratulations, you are now a Swordmaster". Youre oversimplifying it.


Quote from badkarma
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

I dunno, sir. Call me crazy, but I'm 100% certain you'd have a better shot at life fumbling with a sword than fumbling with an unloaded handgun, a magazine, and some bullets - provided you don't know about guns. Heck, I DO know about guns, yet I STILL might take the sword if I was given a rifle or something CRAZY like a sub-machine gun, since I don't know a lot about them.


Again, revolvers, but if you were given a crazy ass sword like the one from Berserk, i mean, i doubt either of us, or even both of us together, would be able to lift it, let alone use it. You can always find a sword or a bladed weapon that is exceedingly hard to use. I mean, how many people actually know how to use a Katar?

Also, i dont know why loading a sub-machine gun would be crazy. I suppose a P90 might be hard to load if you dont know how it works, but most sub-machine guns arent very different from assault rifles or semi-auto handguns.

spareadress
Post #628556
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Hello
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1:15 pm, Jan 15 2014
Posts: 23


Can i have a gun with a that can shoot out swords?

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psycho-shocker
Post #628560
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Parliament
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1:39 pm, Jan 15 2014
Posts: 186


Guns, it's just too damn obvious. That's why war nowadays use guns (and any other long range weapons) instead of swords. Warrior with sword are cool, but that's all there is to it, they will die in this modern age. The later technology give the better result.

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kuroihikari
Post #642554
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8:57 am, May 21 2014
Posts: 41


Easy ^^

- dual guns
- dual blades
- dual knives
- scythe

It's just too hard to pick one, it's all about style ^^

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chrum
Post #642582
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8:21 pm, May 21 2014
Posts: 128


Guns are definitely more effective, but when it comes to solely being cool a katana is waaay better. Elegant. Blades in general are pretty good-looking, and if I had to pick one I especially like it'd be knives. Less flashy, but if used by an experienced person they look really good (and using two of them you can, barely win with a sword). Or maybe I'm biased since I've been learning how to fight with a tanto for some time now.

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