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3:32 pm, Nov 10 2010
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3:32 pm, Nov 10 2010
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7:37 pm, Nov 10 2010
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That's pretty neat.
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9:12 pm, Nov 10 2010
Posts: 1705
Hmm... No offense, but personally I can't help feel a little apprehensive about this. These posts I found from another article pretty much sum up my thoughts why 
:
Last edited by CatzCradle at 9:21 pm, Nov 10 2010
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:Quote
It’s hard to swallow the hype about this being a revolution when so little information is available upfront.
As a fan, the biggest question for me is more fundamental than revenue. I just want to know if fans who have worked on scanlations are actually welcome. Digital Manga has been at pains to avoid using the dirty word ‘scanlation.’ Many in the manga industry have openly stated their loathing for fans who scanlate. It’s difficult to believe that DM are now welcoming such fans with open arms, especially when the industry hold these same fans responsible for reducing the market value of manga to zero.
Hence the current suspicion in the Guild forum about offering samples of work. After all, what fan in their right mind is going to admit to scanlating – a breach of copyright and a criminal offence in some countries – to a publisher?
That underlying suspicion of publishers and their motives may be a bigger hurdle for fans to overcome than the issue of revenue share, which will probably be fairly meager anyway.
As a fan, the biggest question for me is more fundamental than revenue. I just want to know if fans who have worked on scanlations are actually welcome. Digital Manga has been at pains to avoid using the dirty word ‘scanlation.’ Many in the manga industry have openly stated their loathing for fans who scanlate. It’s difficult to believe that DM are now welcoming such fans with open arms, especially when the industry hold these same fans responsible for reducing the market value of manga to zero.
Hence the current suspicion in the Guild forum about offering samples of work. After all, what fan in their right mind is going to admit to scanlating – a breach of copyright and a criminal offence in some countries – to a publisher?
That underlying suspicion of publishers and their motives may be a bigger hurdle for fans to overcome than the issue of revenue share, which will probably be fairly meager anyway.
Quote
I don’t like this revenue share thing they’re doing. Basically, we do all the work, get paid with the scraps off their table, and they get to sit on their asses and enjoy the income.
What exactly do we suppose they’re investing? It can’t be much–it’s a win-win for both DGM and the Japanese companies. If it doesn’t take off, they didn’t have to pay anybody to translate, edit, lay out, print, bind, transport, market, package, and sell their product. And they’ll have all the legal rights to your work, not you. Basically, they’ll have gotten the brunt of the work done for free. Oh sure, they’ll have to pay a guy to maintain the website, but they usually pay those guys chips anyways. And of course, if it does take off, they get to sit back and enjoy the sales without lifting a finger.
Frankly, I’ll take the thank-yous and see DGM off with a nice **** you very much. And if there’re other translators out there that’re willing to work that hard for so little money, they should go get a job and a self-esteem help group. Maybe then, they’ll see they’re worth more than the pay of a Mexican factory worker.
What exactly do we suppose they’re investing? It can’t be much–it’s a win-win for both DGM and the Japanese companies. If it doesn’t take off, they didn’t have to pay anybody to translate, edit, lay out, print, bind, transport, market, package, and sell their product. And they’ll have all the legal rights to your work, not you. Basically, they’ll have gotten the brunt of the work done for free. Oh sure, they’ll have to pay a guy to maintain the website, but they usually pay those guys chips anyways. And of course, if it does take off, they get to sit back and enjoy the sales without lifting a finger.
Frankly, I’ll take the thank-yous and see DGM off with a nice **** you very much. And if there’re other translators out there that’re willing to work that hard for so little money, they should go get a job and a self-esteem help group. Maybe then, they’ll see they’re worth more than the pay of a Mexican factory worker.
Last edited by CatzCradle at 9:21 pm, Nov 10 2010
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Member
8:59 am, Nov 11 2010
Posts: 187
8:59 am, Nov 11 2010
Posts: 187
Quote from CatzCradle
Hmm... No offense, but personally I can't help feel a little apprehensive about this. These posts I found from another article pretty much sum up my thoughts why
Yeah. I'm a huge supporter of the industry's efforts to stay afloat, and I avidly purchase tons of manga- and I enjoy reading unlicensed scanlated works. If there were a way for these people to not only do what they enjoy in a legit way, but also help the author by getting their books sold, I'm totally for it.
But this needs some serious looking-over by someone who understands this kind of thing. It just needs some major tweaking- it's a cool idea, and heck, if I could edit for them, I'd totally do it! But not without someone better explaining this to me, or to other avid fans who might be interested. I don't think people ought to hop on board something that's kind of vague. Remember Tokyopop's manga pact?
rawr
Member
10:24 am, Nov 11 2010
Posts: 161
In response to some quotes made by CatzCradle (which is a bit too long to re-quote)
-------
Okay, IF I were to be the DMG who could speak quite freely, a number of arguments there are very over exaggerated.
Existing scanlations cannot be used. And this is something that can never be changed legally unless you 1. get the license for the original comic, 2. get an agreement out of every single individual involved in scanlation AFTER it's been done (which is a legal problem of itself in many ways). With every scanlator being behind a simple alias, how are they supposed to track them down? They can't just take the existing scanlations and publish it. Then, they would be committing the illegal act.
Then there's the idea of "we do all the work and xxx gets all the money". This has been passed around quite a bit to places like onemanga... mangafox, etc. But lets make a real comparison here because this is not just a plain online reader that hosts scanlated materials. First, you are getting paid. Versus getting paid nothing right now, it sure beats the deal. You may have no rights to your work, but currently your work is illegal. Still a win scenario there. And we don't do all the work. Scanlators have actually done minimal work because this scenario covers the legal scenario. The original author clearly has done more work. The DMG would have to pay for the licenses and it's not like there's a shopping cart button that says "buy license here now". That alone is a complicated, and involves long long hours of negotiation. Then multiply that by each publishing company and quite possibly extends to numerous other parties who has a share of say in the licenses. There's also the work that needs to be done to coordinate it. Being in the scanlation group alone was enough to show me that it takes a lot of work to coordinate people. Interview candidates, make sure they're on track, make sure the releases are on time, etc. And clearly, there are going to be support staff. They are probably not going to be voluntary. So add a bunch of people in salary line. After all this, how could we possibly say we have done most of the work or even worse, claim for a large piece of the pie? We didn't even have expenses to do this!
And to be frank, licenses cost a LOT of money. Especially if you want for digital redistribution (because digital gets more views more easily and then can be re-redistributed in unwanted manner and many of them will require some form of anti-theft measurement in place as part of the contract). I'm sure some of you guys read my previous post of my own attempt at something like this. A lot of publishers want cash up front. So, when you start, you're starting with a huge debt. If it does work nicely, they're not walk away and just thinking, "oh well, that was a nice try" just because they didn't pay you. They will be walking away with nothing after calling bankruptcy. (Thus, I was actually aiming for another branch, but I still got nothing for you. lol)
Yes, minimal pay does suck, but that is the very nature of crowdsourcing models, that's why businesses often love it and that's why some business models are actually viable, such as this one. If you were getting paid $20/hr to do these scanlation, they'll be under in less than a month and would be calling bankruptcy. If you want to call the very nature of crowdsourcing evil, you might as well then call Wikipedia evil. There are millions of people putting billions of man hours into wikipedia to create all the content. In return you get nothing. They reap in donations which are then used to pay for their lavish salaries. Their gained fame can even be further used to participate in conferences and get paid tons of more money!
If your hobby is scanlating, I'd guess an offer similar to this one is about as good as it gets. And if you don't want to admit to scanlating to a publishing company, don't. For an example of your work, just ask for a sample page and do that.
Lastly, they don't have much information upfront probably because they don't have much information for you. It's not live yet. I had the very same problem with some complaints. I don't have anything yet but people are barking for more information.
________________
The Company
[b]Batoto
-------
Okay, IF I were to be the DMG who could speak quite freely, a number of arguments there are very over exaggerated.
Existing scanlations cannot be used. And this is something that can never be changed legally unless you 1. get the license for the original comic, 2. get an agreement out of every single individual involved in scanlation AFTER it's been done (which is a legal problem of itself in many ways). With every scanlator being behind a simple alias, how are they supposed to track them down? They can't just take the existing scanlations and publish it. Then, they would be committing the illegal act.
Then there's the idea of "we do all the work and xxx gets all the money". This has been passed around quite a bit to places like onemanga... mangafox, etc. But lets make a real comparison here because this is not just a plain online reader that hosts scanlated materials. First, you are getting paid. Versus getting paid nothing right now, it sure beats the deal. You may have no rights to your work, but currently your work is illegal. Still a win scenario there. And we don't do all the work. Scanlators have actually done minimal work because this scenario covers the legal scenario. The original author clearly has done more work. The DMG would have to pay for the licenses and it's not like there's a shopping cart button that says "buy license here now". That alone is a complicated, and involves long long hours of negotiation. Then multiply that by each publishing company and quite possibly extends to numerous other parties who has a share of say in the licenses. There's also the work that needs to be done to coordinate it. Being in the scanlation group alone was enough to show me that it takes a lot of work to coordinate people. Interview candidates, make sure they're on track, make sure the releases are on time, etc. And clearly, there are going to be support staff. They are probably not going to be voluntary. So add a bunch of people in salary line. After all this, how could we possibly say we have done most of the work or even worse, claim for a large piece of the pie? We didn't even have expenses to do this!
And to be frank, licenses cost a LOT of money. Especially if you want for digital redistribution (because digital gets more views more easily and then can be re-redistributed in unwanted manner and many of them will require some form of anti-theft measurement in place as part of the contract). I'm sure some of you guys read my previous post of my own attempt at something like this. A lot of publishers want cash up front. So, when you start, you're starting with a huge debt. If it does work nicely, they're not walk away and just thinking, "oh well, that was a nice try" just because they didn't pay you. They will be walking away with nothing after calling bankruptcy. (Thus, I was actually aiming for another branch, but I still got nothing for you. lol)
Yes, minimal pay does suck, but that is the very nature of crowdsourcing models, that's why businesses often love it and that's why some business models are actually viable, such as this one. If you were getting paid $20/hr to do these scanlation, they'll be under in less than a month and would be calling bankruptcy. If you want to call the very nature of crowdsourcing evil, you might as well then call Wikipedia evil. There are millions of people putting billions of man hours into wikipedia to create all the content. In return you get nothing. They reap in donations which are then used to pay for their lavish salaries. Their gained fame can even be further used to participate in conferences and get paid tons of more money!
If your hobby is scanlating, I'd guess an offer similar to this one is about as good as it gets. And if you don't want to admit to scanlating to a publishing company, don't. For an example of your work, just ask for a sample page and do that.
Lastly, they don't have much information upfront probably because they don't have much information for you. It's not live yet. I had the very same problem with some complaints. I don't have anything yet but people are barking for more information.
________________
The Company
[b]Batoto
Yaaawn
Member
11:11 am, Nov 11 2010
Posts: 746
Good for them. This doesn't seem like a bad thing. It would be nice if their idea works. I hope that they find some people to help out.
They say they will try to bring "thousands of untranslated manga titles to fans everywhere," so that sounds cool. I'll definitely be checking it out when the site goes up. Even though I do prefer paper editions of manga rather than electronic ones. I hope they'll keep their novel series (Vampire Hunter D (novels not manga)) released on paper though.
________________
They say they will try to bring "thousands of untranslated manga titles to fans everywhere," so that sounds cool. I'll definitely be checking it out when the site goes up. Even though I do prefer paper editions of manga rather than electronic ones. I hope they'll keep their novel series (Vampire Hunter D (novels not manga)) released on paper though.
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Sweetly Macabre
Member
2:57 am, Nov 13 2010
Posts: 1005
Quote
Digital Manga, Inc., the Japanese publishers, and you (the localizers) will all be paid based on sales. We are all in this together! See your name in the credits, and potentially be a part of greater profit. Join our online open platform community today and bring thousands of manga to fans everywhere.
Does this sound something like a pyramid scheme to anyone else?
Doesn't the word 'potentially' sound suspicious?
If it's all sincere, then all the best luck to them.
But if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
KYOKUGEN !!!
Member9:53 pm, Nov 15 2010
Posts: 878
First I'd like to hear about how this "Digital Manga Guild" plans on getting the publishing rights for manga... I'll stop being sceptical when they actually manage to get the rights for some popular titles.
Somehow I don't think it's very likely for publishers such as WSJ to accept getting only 1/3 of the profits.
Scanlators might also be put off with getting 1/3 of the profits, since they will be doing most of the work while this "Digital Manga Guild" will be getting 1/3 of the profits for doing nothing... actually it's pointless to speculate on what scanlators would think as a whole... they are many individuals so we can assume that some of them would be fine with getting any pay at all.
Something like this DMG scheme could work if they manage to get a lot of licenses. The revenue from ads could be substantial if the site catches on as an online manga reader. Then again if the Japanese publishers were actually interested in something like this why in the world woudn't they make their own online reader?
________________
Somehow I don't think it's very likely for publishers such as WSJ to accept getting only 1/3 of the profits.
Scanlators might also be put off with getting 1/3 of the profits, since they will be doing most of the work while this "Digital Manga Guild" will be getting 1/3 of the profits for doing nothing... actually it's pointless to speculate on what scanlators would think as a whole... they are many individuals so we can assume that some of them would be fine with getting any pay at all.
Something like this DMG scheme could work if they manage to get a lot of licenses. The revenue from ads could be substantial if the site catches on as an online manga reader. Then again if the Japanese publishers were actually interested in something like this why in the world woudn't they make their own online reader?
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Member
10:05 pm, Nov 15 2010
Posts: 27
10:05 pm, Nov 15 2010
Posts: 27
There's one major underlying difference to this than to scanlating, and I don't mean the pay. They send you a number of titles of their choosing, and judging by their affiliated sites it's mostly shoujo titles, you pick something out of what they send which can very well be something you don't want to do, and work on it for what could possibly end up being a crap paycheck.
If you're simply up for the idea of being a/an translator/editor to make money, go right ahead. But, you're almost guaranteed not to work on something you want to. Not as bad for the translators maybe, but editing is a lot of work. Scanlating is all about working on something you want to do, albeit illegal.
If you're simply up for the idea of being a/an translator/editor to make money, go right ahead. But, you're almost guaranteed not to work on something you want to. Not as bad for the translators maybe, but editing is a lot of work. Scanlating is all about working on something you want to do, albeit illegal.
Member
10:29 pm, Nov 15 2010
Posts: 704
It's Idealistic
not gonna work in real life
not gonna work in real life
non-standard
Member
10:33 pm, Nov 15 2010
Posts: 740
Here's an article about DMP's plans for the digital manga guild:
http://manga.about.com/od/mangaeditorsinterviews/a/Interview -Hikaru-Sasahara-Of-Digital-Manga-Publishing.htm
For now I remain skeptical on how well this will work out.
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[Url=http://goo.gl/WMSVJ] k'><u>Looking for... shoujo with a canned peach confession.</u></a><!--url_type_2_end--><BR><!--url_type_2--><a href='<!--Auto_parse_begin--><a target='_blank' rel='nofollow' href='http://www.antimoon.com/how/pronunc-soundsipa.htm''><u>http://www.antimoon.com/how/pronunc-soundsipa.htm'</u></a><!--Auto_parse_end--> target='_blank'><u>Don't English Me I'm Panic</u></a><!--url_type_2_end--><BR><!--url_type_4.5--><a href='<!--Auto_parse_begin--><a target='_blank' rel='nofollow' href='http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3839'><u>Guess'><u>http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3839'><u>Guess</u></a><!--Auto_parse_end--> the Manga/Anime Name</u></a><!--url_type_4_end--><BR>'Shojo manga has no boundaries, and never did!’ -Shimizu Reiko, Himitsu - Top Secret fanbook interview
http://manga.about.com/od/mangaeditorsinterviews/a/Interview -Hikaru-Sasahara-Of-Digital-Manga-Publishing.htm
For now I remain skeptical on how well this will work out.
________________
[Url=http://goo.gl/WMSVJ] k'><u>Looking for... shoujo with a canned peach confession.</u></a><!--url_type_2_end--><BR><!--url_type_2--><a href='<!--Auto_parse_begin--><a target='_blank' rel='nofollow' href='http://www.antimoon.com/how/pronunc-soundsipa.htm''><u>http://www.antimoon.com/how/pronunc-soundsipa.htm'</u></a><!--Auto_parse_end--> target='_blank'><u>Don't English Me I'm Panic</u></a><!--url_type_2_end--><BR><!--url_type_4.5--><a href='<!--Auto_parse_begin--><a target='_blank' rel='nofollow' href='http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3839'><u>Guess'><u>http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3839'><u>Guess</u></a><!--Auto_parse_end--> the Manga/Anime Name</u></a><!--url_type_4_end--><BR>'Shojo manga has no boundaries, and never did!’ -Shimizu Reiko, Himitsu - Top Secret fanbook interview
Member
3:02 am, Nov 16 2010
Posts: 4
Reminds me of Openmanga. Which is still inactive. 3 months from now and no one will remember it's there.
And sorry, most people translate what they like, this is probably for those who want the money, or to help the community with less guilt.
And sorry, most people translate what they like, this is probably for those who want the money, or to help the community with less guilt.
Member
8:56 am, Nov 16 2010
Posts: 1
8:56 am, Nov 16 2010
Posts: 1
Quote from intemango
Reminds me of Openmanga. Which is still inactive. 3 months from now and no one will remember it's there.
[...]
[...]
just what I thought. another site that wants to cooperate/compete with the big guys and get revenue out of it - nothing wrong about that either imo, at least as long as the mangaka get their share, but seeing how they are not even mentioned it will probably end up like kodansha
Member
8:58 am, Nov 16 2010
Posts: 32
8:58 am, Nov 16 2010
Posts: 32
.
Last edited by krytorii at 1:38 pm, Jan 24 2021
Last edited by krytorii at 1:38 pm, Jan 24 2021
Member
1:33 pm, Nov 16 2010
Posts: 36
Who wants to read manga on a computer screen anyway?
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