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Wht the rivality between groups

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Emperorpogi
Post #2226
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7:56 pm, Nov 26 2006
Posts: 245


well.. there is a really good benefit to start from a beginning while other groups are 10 volumes or what ever ahead..

people who are new into the manga would rather get the newest release ones than the old mangas thats been translated by groups.

well thats how i am, i usually go for good groups and newest releases by a group

saying for instance a manga volume released 10 weeks ago.. and a manga volume released now. that one manga now would seem a better choice

but thats just the way i see things

NeoShweaty
Post #2238
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9:49 pm, Nov 26 2006
Posts: 91


GGpX dont even get me started on Bleach/Narutobuzz. I hate hate hate when scanlators ask for money. Trust me, i have put a LOT of my own money into scanlations and a ton of my own time so asking for some compensation isnt ridiculous but i refused to do so because it is stupid and shouldnt be done. This is by fans, for fans, for free.

I agree about groups scanning licensed stuff (ie the viz/dark horse/tokyo pop stuff) and releasing it. I am cheap but not cheap enough to read scans from stuff i can get at barnes and noble.

About rivalries, I guess it is sort of a, i got this series popular or i tried doing this this and this but then you jump in and just start stomping on my stuff. That is sort of how i felt. Now, i dont nearly have the time to care about that stuff as much (which is why KO-Scans is no more, for a while at least) so if another group wants to do it, go ahead. More work for them and less work for me.

barbapapa
Post #2239
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9:53 pm, Nov 26 2006
Posts: 303


Lol, NarutoBuzz asks for money?

Thats hilarious. Especially since they call their releases "HQ", while they look awful.

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GGpX
Post #2240
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Dark Knight
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10:05 pm, Nov 26 2006
Posts: 341


barb: They ask for $500 a month "to continue the scanlations."

A complete joke.

"make a donation at www.​narutobuzz.​com so we can keep releasing Naruto !" -Naruto 330 Comment on TokyoTosho
"Please Donate or the releases stop, Donate at www.​bleachbuzz.​com" -Bleach 251 Comment on TokyoTosho
"Donate or No More Bleach Releases www.​bleachbuzz.​com to donate" -Bleach 250 Comment on TokyoTosho
"Direct Download Available at www.​bleachbuzz.​com please donate so we can stay alive !" -Bleach 252 Comment on TokyoTosho

Last edited by GGpX at 10:10 pm, Nov 26

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barbapapa
Post #2242 - Reply to (#2240) by GGpX
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11:14 pm, Nov 26 2006
Posts: 303


Quote from GGpX
barb: They ask for $500 a month "to continue the scanlations."

A complete joke.

"make a donation at www.​narutobuzz.​com so we can keep releasing Naruto !" -Naruto 330 Comment on TokyoTosho
"Please Donate or the releases stop, Donate at www.​bleachbuzz.​com" -Bleach 251 Comment on TokyoTosho
"Donate or No More Bleach Releases www.​bleachbuzz.​com to donate" -Bleach 250 Comment on TokyoTosho
"Direct Download Available at www.​bleachbuzz.​com please donate so we can stay alive !" -Bleach 252 Comment on TokyoTosho



I'd pay them to stop scanlating.

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Anima
Post #2243
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11:23 pm, Nov 26 2006
Posts: 169


tbh, the buzz scanlations are pretty bad...

Ambience Blue
Post #2249
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3:58 am, Nov 27 2006
Posts: 9


Well, to add my two (long) cents, I personally think that competition can be good in some ways. Often, a project will get pulled out ahead of the race by a certain team, which will knock out all its competition. In that case, that single scanlation team may sit on the project for ages, releasing at its own pace. I have no problem with this. Unfortunately, this can lead to extremely slow releases and shoddy work, which is not necessarily beneficial for the manga community at large. That, again, is a problem for the scanlators themselves to figure out, since it's their work and no-one can criticize them on it. In such a case, increased competition can lead to quicker releases and snappier work in that field, which is something I value. Too often, you see a team get smug with their work, refusing help and taking the high ground over a project that simply happened to become theirs because a member found raws first. If this becomes too odious, it's only fair that other, irritated fans will take matters into their own hands to get a project that means a lot to them out to like-minded readers. In addition, other teams may have differences in attitude about specific issues, such as raws qualities, editing standards, and translation guidelines. Those, again, are issues that justify outside work on a project.

To address the initial question brought up in this thread, I'd also like to point out that another reason why scanlators dislike joints is because of complications that arise in the communication and release processes. Usually, projects only involve one translator and one editor, due to the difficulty of coordinating alternating chapters (from my experience, I've always found the best teams to be of one fast translator with a dedicated editor-- or one dedicated translator/editor ;> Increasing staff does not increase productivity). In such a case, most teams must communicate with each other for relaying of scripts and raws, and without a central hosting mechanism (most established groups work through a dedicated FTP or private channel within the team) this can lead to delays. Further complicating the issue is when projects will be released. Indubitably, one team's editor will finish the chapter first. Coordinating the release to make it fair to both teams is usually slow and painstaking, not to mention that it slows down when the chapter/volume is finally thrown out to the leechers. Breakups of joints are horrendous like divorces as well. There will be disputes over raws, staff, and scripts, which add to the headache. Simply put, it's less efficient.

I prefer to think of joints as gestures of good will between teams. But to that end, I highly encourage them, since it indicates that two teams are generous enough to work out the differences between them to pool their talents-- even if it means increasing diplomacy and bureaucracy. Often, the mutual trust lead to better work and faster releases, making it a win-win situation for all.

I've seen my fair share of joints (not to mention the fact that we'll be announcing two more joints in the upcoming weeks <.<) and I must say that when things turn for the worst, they can get hairy. I'm not completely innocent. I've mistreated joint partners and been mistreated as well. I've gotten angry at other leaders for acting irrationally while being unreasonable myself. But I realize that what I've done has not been in the best interest of anybody, and for that, I know it's wrong.

Having said that, I've also seen joints that work out successfully. Two teams can really gel together, and staff can become lasting friends. I can honestly say that there are members of partner teams that I know better than some people of my own team ^^. Groups can build some strong partnerships through working with others, which is what scanlating is all about-- bringing fellow manga enthusiasts together.

Last edited by Ambience Blue at 11:29 pm, Nov 27

Manick
Post #2265 - Reply to (#2249) by Ambience Blue
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8:30 am, Nov 27 2006
Posts: 2213


Quote from Ambience Blue
...

I agree. The scanlation and anime fansubbing community has taken on some very professional communication characteristics with regards to team work and organization. They're almost like tiny businesses--with all the benefits... and problems... that come along with them. I also agree that competition is good, but can understand where the hard feelings come from. Unfortunately you really can't do anything about it... there's no rules in scanlating none

The unfortunate side to this is that most people still judge success by quantity. That faster you release, the more downloads you get. If you release late, then not as many people will download your version... I figure people might ask themselves, "why am I even doing this anymore?"

Having never been a scanlator myself though all I can do is speculate. I've done some fansubbing and we usually had to deal with a lot of communication items and even a rival group releasing episodes as we did. In the end it wasn't that stressful though as we were doing an older series and time wasn't really an issue.

I'm interested in what others have to say though.

On another note, it's now 3 cents per thought, because of inflation. Jokes aside though, well thought out post. I had to read it a few times.

lambchopsil
Post #2266
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Archon Solon
 

8:42 am, Nov 27 2006
Posts: 7907


Hey, I'm the one who uses "..." ...

(You know, one of my friends said that the "..." reminded her of a face with no teeth~)

Well, the competition thing also depends on the group.

Some groups are a lot more known than others and are known for good quality work. When someone "jumps the bandwagon" on a popular series and just releases faster, people will stay loyal to the first group unless the other group is also very good/known. Would you rather wait for someone you know will do a good job or grab something that you have no clue what will look like? It could be worth your time, it might not be. Of course, other people don't care about quality...

Of course, if it's an older manga or not as known as something like Air Gear, for example, then most people don't care as much...Or take the D.Gray-Man stuff from random people...

Wanna have some scanlation wars along with fansub wars~

Btw, Baka-Updates should start a scanlation group...That'd be an idea, eh?

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HuhWhat
Post #2267
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8:51 am, Nov 27 2006
Posts: 101


Honestly I don't care if another group steals a project. If they think they can do a better job, at a faster pace, then let them have at it. To be honest, my own group has released a number of chapters that are below my expected level of quality; and I think it would be a god-send if someone could redo them in better quality. Or perhaps shitter quality so I can revel in the fact we aren't the worst group out there. That's just me though; and I don't really care about stupid things like this.

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Manick
Post #2275 - Reply to (#2266) by lambchopsil
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4:15 pm, Nov 27 2006
Posts: 2213


Quote from lambchopsil
Btw, Baka-Updates should start a scanlation group...That'd be an idea, eh?

Haha. That's a whole lot of effort that I think we just don't have time for. Besides, I think it is important that we stay close but visibly separate from the scanlation community. This kinda goes along the lines of "We're an information site... not a download site...".


Kelocena
Post #2304
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11:18 pm, Nov 27 2006
Posts: 12


In my opinion, as an editor, quality is everything. I don't necessarily care who released first, I just want HQ. I often find that poor quality ruins the reading experience. With Naruto, the scanlations I read were LQ and I didn't feel as "into it" as I could've. If only the editor had leveled, the quality would have improved dramatically. Anyway, what matters is that you're scanlating for your love of manga or love of editting/translating/scanning or both. Rivalry over a non-profit hobby is just plain ridiculous.

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dArKzlevIN
Post #2338
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5:13 am, Nov 28 2006
Posts: 1


Quote

I'd pay them to stop scanlating.


hahaha... that should go to alot of retarded groups that can't even put together a proper sentence in their scanlations let alone even edit things.

project rivalry is completely different from project jacking btw. for those people who can't figure out the difference. think about it in your own sweet time

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HuhWhat
Post #2339 - Reply to (#2338) by dArKzlevIN
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5:48 am, Nov 28 2006
Posts: 101


Quote from dArKzlevIN
(quote)project rivalry is completely different from project jacking btw. for those people who can't figure out the difference. think about it in your own sweet time

Oh really? confused

How many groups do you know who've started from volume one?

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GGpX
Post #2341
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Dark Knight
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6:46 am, Nov 28 2006
Posts: 341


What's your definition of "project jacking." ?

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