banner_jpg
Username/Email: Password:
Forums

Raising a genderless child

Pages (7) [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ] Next
You must be registered to post!
From User
Message Body
Post #472605 - Reply to (#471570) by darcyaglow
user avatar
Member

10:41 pm, May 28 2011
Posts: 26


I dunno....I definitely don't agree with the unschooling bit, but I do think people need to be more open-minded. Although, I wouldn't hide the kid's gender, I would acknowledge which they were, and let them decide which later on. And I wouldn't let the cross-dressing and stuff happen until they were older, because let's face it, kids can be mercilessly cruel. :/

Quote from darcyaglow
Quote from ranmaru
the parents have issues, and thier kids seem to be infected by it no
while its better to let ur kid decide their future and life, too bad for him'her about not being able to choose the parent!!! dead

That's true. cool
But there are still special cases when the kid had to grow up in an unhealthy environment still turn out to be good.


Like Harry Potter. biggrin

Mod Edit: Good Lord! Read the rules woman! Smh

Last edited by Calíbre at 10:49 pm, May 28 2011

user avatar
Member

11:08 pm, May 28 2011
Posts: 25


I don't think it's that weird... In my experience, in America girls are already raised this way... Everything my brother could do, I also could. I wear pants, cut my hair however I like, have any kind of hobby I want, don't have any pressure to do 'female things' like housekeeping, get married, have children, etc.
It's just a double standard that if I was a boy, I could not wear dresses or have long hair or wear make up without getting comments.

Post #472619 - Reply to (#472609) by icarusbride
user avatar
Meh...
Member

11:33 pm, May 28 2011
Posts: 937


Quote from icarusbride
I don't think it's that weird... In my experience, in America girls are already raised this way... Everything my brother could do, I also could. I wear pants, cut my hair however I like, have any kind of hobby I want, don't have any pressure to do 'female things' like housekeeping, get married, have children, etc.
It's just a double standard that if I was a boy, I could not wear dresses or have long hair or wear make up without getting comments.


I think you're missing the point here. Those childrens' sex is being purposely hidden. What you're talking about is different in the sense that you didn't hide it, but you dressed in the way you liked.

________________
There are times when you will miss what you never had. I wonder how you will find what you so desperately need.
user avatar
Member

8:50 am, Jun 2 2011
Posts: 510


Reviving this topic 'cause a friend linked to a really good article by the kid's mom that took a rather sensible approach:
Baby Storm’s mother speaks on gender, parenting and media


user avatar
Member

11:05 am, Jun 2 2011
Posts: 1901


Who gives a fuck if they don't tell anyone the baby's sex. It's a baby, and unlike most people who grow up conflicted about their gender and how society perceives gender, this child will actually have a choice..


I'm still not sure if my cat is a boy or a girl, I just let him be who he wants to be. I'm free spirited like that.

________________
User Posted Image
Post #473704 - Reply to (#472605) by artist92
Member

11:26 am, Jun 2 2011
Posts: 184


Quote from story645
Reviving this topic 'cause a friend linked to a really good article by the kid's mom that took a rather sensible approach:
Baby Storm’s mother speaks on gender, parenting and media


That's article linked presents the exact same block of text that aries_girl posted a few posts before yours:
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/998960--genderless-baby-s -mother-responds-to-media-furor

Quote from artist92
I dunno....I definitely don't agree with the unschooling bit, but I do think people need to be more open-minded. Although, I wouldn't hide the kid's gender, I would acknowledge which they were, and let them decide which later on. And I wouldn't let the cross-dressing and stuff happen until they were older, because let's face it, kids can be mercilessly cruel. :/

Quote from darcyaglow
Quote from ranmaru
the parents have issues, and thier kids seem to be infected by it no
while its better to let ur kid decide their future and life, too bad for him'her about not being able to choose the parent!!! dead

That's true. cool
But there are still special cases when the kid had to grow up in an unhealthy environment still turn out to be good.


Like Harry Potter. biggrin

Mod Edit: Good Lord! Read the rules woman! Smh


Getting into the nature v nurture debate... Rather than being a "special case", it might be common. According to twin studies and other related studies, "nurture" only defines a minor fraction of a person's character (well below 50%).

Even if we avoid considering behaviour directly influenced by "nature" (genetics), we still need to consider how much the environment involved in the "nurture" is affected by genetics, and thus, indirectly affecting the nurturing of the child. Let's face it. Parent's are not the sole proprietors of a child's nurturing. Their friends, extended family, teachers, etc, all have roles to play.

Example: A child is hideous, has an unpleasant voice, and has embarrassing uncontrollable bodily functions. He/She gets worse treatment from his peers and possibly even his aunts/uncles because of it. Certainly, that maltreatment from his/her environment may affect his/her nurturing... but it was indirectly caused by nature in the first place.

On the other hand, a child might be beautiful, and able to evoke protective and supportive response from peers. Even having suffered from a poor childhood, as time goes on, this child's support system will generally be better.

It might be unfortunate if it is case that nature does play such an overwhelming role in our development. I do hate fatalism. But I also think we shouldn't avoid discussing this issue just because it may be demoralizing to some people.

When it comes to certain issues, such as homosexuality, most liberal-minded folk would agree that it's not simply "a choice". It's something they are born with. Religious zealots should back off, because gay people had no choice in the matter anyway. We should be understanding.

But then we liberal-minded folk can dismiss genetics for all other predispositions, whenever it's convenient? What gives?

Last edited by N0x_ at 11:32 am, Jun 2 2011

Post #473705 - Reply to (#473701) by shaggievara
Member

11:31 am, Jun 2 2011
Posts: 216


Quote from shaggievara
Who gives a fuck if they don't tell anyone the baby's sex. It's a baby, and unlike most people who grow up conflicted about their gender and how society perceives gender, this child will actually have a choice..


I'm still not sure if my cat is a boy or a girl, I just let him be who he wants to be. I'm free spirited like that.


There are a few issues.

1. Some people object to treating kids like lab experiments.

2. Some people say, So what if you ARE right, if you can influence your kid to be gay, and the only thing keeping children straight for the most part is how we raise them, its a big can of worms we don't want to open.

3. Dwarf sex. Mythical dwarves all have beards, the men, and the women, so its a bit of a difficulty finding a mate sometimes, because you can't easily tell as dwarves are manly (just like elves are feminine)

there aren't any dwarves anymore, because they died off because it was too hard to find a mate and get it pregnant.



user avatar
Member

1:20 pm, Jun 2 2011
Posts: 83


The idea has some interesting value, but I wouldn't do that to my own child - mainly because it would be too difficult for him/her to survive in our current society that is so fixated on dividing by genders.
If we look at this through a conformist's point of view, that is to say the type of people who make up what we recognize as a 'society', a loss of gender could very well be a loss primary social identity. How can I make my child feel accepted once he/she is exposed to the social norms? What will happen to my child when the time comes for him/her to find a partner? etc. These are some things to consider...

Post #473760 - Reply to (#473704) by N0x_
user avatar
Member

6:50 pm, Jun 2 2011
Posts: 1901


Quote from red255
There are a few issues.

1. Some people object to treating kids like lab experiments.

2. Some people say, So what if you ARE right, if you can influence your kid to be gay, and the only thing keeping children straight for the most part is how we raise them, its a big can of worms we don't want to open.

3. Dwarf sex. Mythical dwarves all have beards, the men, and the women, so its a bit of a difficulty finding a mate sometimes, because you can't easily tell as dwarves are manly (just like elves are feminine)

there aren't any dwarves anymore, because they died off because it was too hard to find a mate and get it pregnant.



Believe it or not, there is an APA code of ethics, and I am certain Canada has something similar to it. Since it isn't the 1920's anymore, there is honestly no reason to object to using children as experiments in the developed world.

On a side note... You can't influence your kid to be gay. It just doesn't work that way. Considering that gender identity isn't directly related to sexuality, I'm not even sure what that has to do with this. But I don't know what your dwarf comment does either.

The entire idea of raising a genderless child is to eliminate the societal pressure to conform to gender roles. Like I said, who the fuck cares. It isn't hurting anyone. Literally. No one is affected by this but the kid. In fact, making a huge hoopla about it and creating negative press concerning the kid is certain to cause much much more damage.


My main opinion of it is, I don't care. I don't like kids, and I don't like their parents. What they do with their kids is their own business. All I know is from a psychological point of view, what they are doing is logical. Who are we, as bystanders, to suppress another person's anima or animus?


Quote from N0x_
But then we liberal-minded folk can dismiss genetics for all other predispositions, whenever it's convenient? What gives?


Well there is probably a gene for that type of behavior, so I think it is safe to say we liberals shouldn't be blamed.

After all, there is also apparently a religious gene. So I guess technically we can't blame the religious for their genetic predisposition to not believe in genetics either.

________________
User Posted Image
Post #473779
Member

8:26 pm, Jun 2 2011
Posts: 216


"On a side note... You can't influence your kid to be gay. It just doesn't work that way. Considering that gender identity isn't directly related to sexuality, I'm not even sure what that has to do with this. But I don't know what your dwarf comment does either. "

...Again the dwarf comment is easy. all dwarves are male, essentially genderless because there is only one apparent gender. You are either being purposefully obtuse or drunk. it'll make sense when you sober up if you aren't just shitting me.

The other thing is untolerable on your part. You are just reciting shit you were told. which justifies running experiments on the issue in itself.

But the relevance issue is again easy, this is an issue of sexuality. if you don't understand what that has to do with homosexuality, I don't need to discuss anything with you, SOBER UP AND NO MORE DRUNK POSTING.

In society there are gays, straights and Bisexuals. Of the bisexuals a good number can be persuaded to be straight, or Persuaded to be Gay.

So of the people that are straight there are a number of them who are actually bisexuals persuaded to be straight, and could have, if society was different be persuaded to be gay.

The question is what establishes this sexuality? it doesn't appear to be genetic, so its probably societal. which means if you control society you can determine whether people are gay, straight or bisexual.

Post #473787 - Reply to (#473779) by red255
user avatar
Member

9:58 pm, Jun 2 2011
Posts: 636


Quote from red255
In society there are gays, straights and Bisexuals. Of the bisexuals a good number can be persuaded to be straight, or Persuaded to be Gay.

So of the people that are straight there are a number of them who are actually bisexuals persuaded to be straight, and could have, if society was different be persuaded to be gay.

/facepalm
They're still bisexual, they just happen to be with one same or opposite sex partner. Being bisexual doesn't mean you have date a man and a woman at the same time.


________________
"It is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."
Post #473793 - Reply to (#473760) by shaggievara
Member

12:05 am, Jun 3 2011
Posts: 184


Quote from shaggievara
Quote from N0x_
But then we liberal-minded folk can dismiss genetics for all other predispositions, whenever it's convenient? What gives?


Well there is probably a gene for that type of behavior, so I think it is safe to say we liberals shouldn't be blamed.

After all, there is also apparently a religious gene. So I guess technically we can't blame the religious for their genetic predisposition to not believe in genetics either.


laugh Nice.

... but I'm willing to bet that most of the time, it's just plain stubbornness.

Quote from shaggievara
My main opinion of it is, I don't care. I don't like kids, and I don't like their parents. What they do with their kids is their own business. All I know is from a psychological point of view, what they are doing is logical. Who are we, as bystanders, to suppress another person's anima or animus?


Sure, I don't care much about this particular case. I find it odd, and I made a remark about a lot of parents using wild gimmicks to distinguish their children. None of it is terribly important, just amusing. Most likely, the kids might suffer through some teasing and/or bullying, and end with that.

But let's not kid ourselves. Vast majority of us are pretty damned nosy. Probably in our nature. We like to control others' religions, politics, economics, parenting, ... Bystanders play their role. As with everything else, it just matters to what degree we're talking about.

user avatar
Member

12:12 am, Jun 3 2011
Posts: 774


I actually don't think it's proper for this to happen and could seriously mess up the kid later in life. When you're a child you don't understand concepts such a gender and sexuality. Things are more concrete and it's easier that way.

You cannot change your sexuality but gender is something different. I hope to God the parents teach the child about it's sexuality because that is an important part of self knowledge. There are physical differences between men and women that have nothing to do with gender.

Although I agree with maybe raising the child genderless and not leaving any boundaries and leaving the kid to do whatever it wants like their other two kids... But it seems like they don't even want to acknowledge the sex of the baby. When people ask they don't want to tell. In a way it may back fire and the child may become ashamed of their sexuality, the way they were born.

I dunno. The whole thing isn't detailed enough. What they are doing with their other kids seems perfectly normal (let a kid do what a kid wants), but completely avoiding biological sexuality? That's wrong.

Quote from red255
In society there are gays, straights and Bisexuals. Of the bisexuals a good number can be persuaded to be straight, or Persuaded to be Gay.

So of the people that are straight there are a number of them who are actually bisexuals persuaded to be straight, and could have, if society was different be persuaded to be gay.

The question is what establishes this sexuality? it doesn't appear to be genetic, so its probably societal. which means if you control society you can determine whether people are gay, straight or bisexual.


WOW. You must be an idiot.
Although there may not be a "gay gene" it doesn't change that fact that some people are biologically pre-dispositioned to be attracted to people of the same sex. It just happens. It has been proven in countless studies that we choose mates on many biological traits that we don't even know about.

Did you realize that you are naturally not sexually attracted to your family members because your genetics are too similar? There is so much we still don't know about pheromones and why we choose our specific mates. It has nothing to do with genetics, but a lot to do with biology. (Accident... Not a scientist and it was 4am)

Why the hell would someone choose to be abandon their families and shunned by their peers all for loving someone of the same sex? That doesn't make sense.

Bisexuals are just receptive to pheremones of both sexes.

As someone who is pansexual I can say your "idea" of sexuality is completely wrong. I know 1000% that I am biologically HETEROSEXUAL. BUT my upbringing and society has allowed me to open my horizons and I have (by no choice... I've just naturally found out) become pansexual. I completely recognize that without my open upbringing and what I have learned in my life time about love and relationships I would never have become Pansexual.

What is pansexuality? I would love this person if they were a man or a woman.

Last edited by Kitteh_13 at 10:59 am, Jun 3 2011

________________
User Posted Image
Post #473799 - Reply to (#473795) by Kitteh_13
Member

12:25 am, Jun 3 2011
Posts: 184


Quote from shaggievara
On a side note... You can't influence your kid to be gay. It just doesn't work that way. Considering that gender identity isn't directly related to sexuality, I'm not even sure what that has to do with this. But I don't know what your dwarf comment does either.


Quote from Kitteh_13
You cannot change your sexuality but gender is something different. I hope to God the parents teach the child about it's sexuality because that is an important part of self knowledge. There are physical differences between men and women that have nothing to do with gender.


Honestly, I don't care much about gender identity... but I just don't understand how people are just brushing aside the comparisons to sexuality.

Everyone is so sure that sexuality can't be changed... but apparently gender identity is completely different! What the Heck.

How can we deny that they are both strongly correlated to gender? The relationship is both strong and causal.

Hypermajority of boys will end up being sexually attracted to girls. Hypermajority of boys will identify themselves as boys, prefer more aggressive forms of recreation, yadda yadda.

Born a boy --> attracted to girls later on in life
Born a boy --> identify with male gender later on in life
Strong and causal.

I have no problem with LGBTs (literally half of the friends I made in college were gay/lesbian), but no one denies that they are exceptions. The norm is for boys to be attracted to girls, and girls to be attracted to boys. PC standards are that they don't have a choice in the matter. I can buy that.

Girls who identify themselves as boys into adulthood are also exceptions, not the norm. Why is the PC standard such that they do have a choice in the matter? Why is this completely different from sexuality aside from the fact that we don't want to hurt people's feelings? (We want little boys and girls to think that they can be whatever they want to be and do whatever they want to do without being discriminated against. That's fine and all. Very "feel good", and I can respect that. Is there more to it?)

Seriously. I am curious. Thanks.

(And if it is really just so that girls don't feel left out of certain traditionally male occupations and vice versa, well, isn't it possible to just explain logically that with social and technological advancement, many traditionally male occupations can easily be handled by women, regardless of biological differences and gender identity?)

EDIT:
Also, I'm a bit confused about that above statement:
"There are physical differences between men and women that have nothing to do with gender."

What in the world is that supposed to mean?

Aren't physical differences between men and women by definition gender-defined?

Last edited by N0x_ at 12:38 am, Jun 3 2011

Post #473808 - Reply to (#473795) by Kitteh_13
user avatar
Mmm...Tasty
Member

1:52 am, Jun 3 2011
Posts: 497


Quote from Kitteh_13
It has nothing to do with genetics, but a lot to do with biology.


You do know that genetics is a branch of biology, and that therefore your statement makes no sense whatsoever, right?

If you want your argument to be credible, you should avoid contradicting yourself. This is not the only time you contradicted yourself within the same sentence either; N0x also pointed out a sentence in which you cancel out your own argument.

________________
User Posted Image
Pages (7) [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ] Next
You must be registered to post!