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[Guide] How to play visual novels in Japanese in 2 years time - learn to read VNs by reading VNs

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Aaeru
Post #510997
Member

7:07 pm, Dec 5 2011
Posts: 2


Learn to READ japanese by playing visual novels or watching Anime.

http://visualnovelaer.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/how-to-read-vis ual-novels-in-japanese-in-2-years-time-step-by-step-guide-%E2%80% 95-learn-to-read-through-vn-or-anime/


This works with Jdramas and movies as well as basically anything with Japanese subtitles (simpsons, hollywood films, anything). Doing it this way is much more fun and more interesting than drilling through thousands of model sentences.

this can really be done in 1 years time but I wrote 2 years because it's being realistic because people don't have so much time and energy. If you have lots of time to kill, it's 1.5 productive hours per day for 365 days and you will be able to read the basic ones (with the help of electronic dictionary of cuz)
Getting yourself up to a level where you can read manga is harder... because no parsers to help you. (but there is the worldictionary iPhone app)

hope someone can find it useful~

TaoPaiPai
Post #511510
Member

12:03 pm, Dec 8 2011
Posts: 952


if you have so much time to spend
why not go to a education center [whatever its called in your country] were everyone can sign up for classes
since japanese is popular you can find classes for it pretty easy
and FUCKING learn it from the ground

or read it at uni

dont joke around with silly things like this ppl

sakura8429
Post #511514
Member

1:37 pm, Dec 8 2011
Posts: 211


do you know japanese? have you learnt it?

if not, go to those learning centres you talk about while i stick to those silly thing you talk about.


good luck

Crenshinibon
Post #511521 - Reply to (#511514) by sakura8429
user avatar
Local Prig
Member

3:14 pm, Dec 8 2011
Posts: 1897


Quote from sakura8429
do you know japanese? have you learnt it?

if not, go to those learning centres you talk about while i stick to those silly thing you talk about.


good luck


I speak Japanese and learned and I can honestly say I agree with the previous poster, if that's the barometer by which you insist on measuring success. Self-study is great and all, but the methodology advocated by learning grammar last, from a third-rate online guide no less, is pretty god-awful.

There aren't any easy methods to learn Japanese. Practice does make perfect, but if you don't practice all of it- speaking included- you're not going to really "get" the language, and you'll be expending a lot more effort than is really necessary.

Buy some decent textbooks (there's a reason people are paid to write those things), take a beginner's course or two, and go the extra mile. You're really just fooling yourself if you think that studying nothing but kanji for a year will somehow miraculously impart understanding to you.

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Naoli
Post #511526
user avatar
Member

4:37 pm, Dec 8 2011
Posts: 10


Taking classes and playing or watching media that's in japanese language is better, since most likely you don't live in japan where you can read japanese text and hear japanese language on a daily basis.

The classes will allow you to have a better understanding of the language, so you would be able to make sentences of your own instead just repeating what you have heard and understand from translation, not to mention japanese can not be translated to english that well. Pretty sure you read some translation note from translators when reading manga explaining some of the sentences.

So there's pretty much more to learning japanese than just how to write or read it.

If you going to self-study you will have to do tons of research, which you can learn in japanese language classes and self-study takes a lot of dedication soon or later you will get tired of it.





Pikapu
Post #511528
user avatar
 Member

4:46 pm, Dec 8 2011
Posts: 1954


This is so ridiculous that it's funny.

Ha. Ha.

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Quote from Crenshinibon
And you will murder someone one day, pika. If you're my daughter.
Polarbearblue
Post #511529 - Reply to (#510997) by Aaeru
user avatar
Member

4:52 pm, Dec 8 2011
Posts: 15


Quote from Aaeru
Learn to READ japanese by playing visual novels or watching Anime.

http://visualnovelaer.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/how-to-read-vis ual-novels-in-japanese-in-2-years-time-step-by-step-guide-%E2%80% 95-learn-to-read-through-vn-or-anime/


This works with Jdramas and movies as well as basically anything with Japanese subtitles (simpsons, hollywood films, anything). Doing it this way is much more fun and more interesting than drilling through thousands of model sentences.

this can really be done in 1 years time but I wrote 2 years because it's being realistic because people don't have so much time and energy. If you have lots of time to kill, it's 1.5 productive hours per day for 365 days and you will be able to read the basic ones (with the help of electronic dictionary of cuz)
Getting yourself up to a level where you can read manga is harder... because no parsers to help you. (but there is the worldictionary iPhone app)

hope someone can find it useful~


I don't wanna diminish what you posted. By no means, because other people can do that. I read through the link and drawing from my own learning experiences I'd have to say school is a start. While the article does make some good points, I have to agree with everyone else. I think this should only come second to actual class.

We all learned some few word and phases from watch anime and reading manga. But if you ask me to spell anything, I can't. And I damn sure can't understand characters. But I used to be pretty good a Spanish for a high schooler. But my most hated memory of it was sitting in a listening test try to understand what this man was saying (Didn't help that he spoke fast and was from Spain). But was it because I didn't take enough time reading Spanish media a novel. Partly yes, but mostly no. I was lazy. And Spanish, you can somewhat BS by.

Chinese however, was not. As much as learning every damn character (some 6000+) was important, you couldn't write a sentence without knowing the proper grammar, and even if you did, you could still make a mistake. And that's what a teacher is for. A native (or damn good secondly language) teacher can help you.

I'm sorry, but I would rather have someone is real time in my face helping me learn, than just self study. But I do understand some people may not be able to afford to go to classes, so this is a decent way to start. But I think it really all come down to is a drive to learn. Self study or instructional wise, if you don't try, and if you aren't willing to put more time into it (more than 2 years) you aren't going to get it.

Liyakido
Post #511533
user avatar
Member

6:41 pm, Dec 8 2011
Posts: 53


i'm kinda surprised no one has said anything about rosetta stone. laugh

PROzess
Post #511543
user avatar
Pissed Off TL0r
Member

8:27 pm, Dec 8 2011
Posts: 97


"2) Learn 2136 Kanji. This will take 100 to 365 days."

Yeah...
Great guide...

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Polarbearblue
Post #511545 - Reply to (#511533) by Liyakido
user avatar
Member

8:39 pm, Dec 8 2011
Posts: 15


Quote from Liyakido
i'm kinda surprised no one has said anything about rosetta stone. laugh

Rosetta stone is different than what this guide suggest in a way. Rosetta stone is a software manufacture and made like the CDs you'd find in the back of a Spanish textbook. And unlike this guide which offers a near free alternative, Rosetta Stone isn't cheap. Using RS is almost like taking online classes for languages.

Aaeru
Post #511679
Member

5:21 pm, Dec 9 2011
Posts: 2


I think some of these comments on my guide are pretty unfair when I specifically said that this guide is only intended to get someone up to the point where they can play Japanese video games. NOT learn Japanese. This is not a Learn Japanese guide.

If you want to learn all of Japanese, yes - class is best. even I agree.

I have had heard stories about people who memorized 2000 kanji in one month. It's doable. So what exactly are you poking a stick at?

These are the steps I took to learn how to read Japanese. It took me about 8 to 10 months to learn 2000 Kanji. Only two days ago I wrote a letter to yodobashi.com explaining to them why they shouldn't cancel my preorder on my PS Vita due to some security issues revolving my credit card (in the end I had to ring them up). I don't understand why all the hate. If you do some research about the most popular Japanese learning techniques, this (for reading) is BAR-NONE the best.

Crenshinibon
Post #511681 - Reply to (#511679) by Aaeru
user avatar
Local Prig
Member

5:44 pm, Dec 9 2011
Posts: 1897


Quote from Aaeru
I think some of these comments on my guide are pretty unfair when I specifically said that this guide is only intended to get someone up to the point where they can play Japanese video games. NOT learn Japanese. This is not a Learn Japanese guide.

If you want to learn all of Japanese, yes - class is best. even I agree.

I have had heard stories about people who memorized 2000 kanji in one month. It's doable. So what exactly are you poking a stick at?

These are the steps I took to learn how to read Japanese. It took me about 8 to 10 months to learn 2000 Kanji. Only two days ago I wrote a letter to yodobashi.com explaining to them why they shouldn't cancel my preorder on my PS Vita due to some security issues revolving my credit card (in the end I had to ring them up). I don't understand why all the hate. If you do some research about the most popular Japanese learning techniques, this (for reading) is BAR-NONE the best.


Your distinction between reading and universal understanding of a language is really laughable. The fact of the matter is that to be properly able to read you have to be properly able to understand everything. You're just fooling yourself into believing that you understand if you can only manage 75% of the text (and I'm being generous here), need a dictionary to look up most of the vocabulary, and have a thin grasp of grammar. It's a useless skill.

I really don't think calling yodobashi is something to brag about. I was fighting with softbank my first week in Japan, you don't need to know much Japanese to correct that sort of problem.

I'd definitely question your "research." I suspect you mulled around the internet and decided that was the case after reading a couple anecdotes. Now, if you could link me to a majority of academic papers that support your claim with thorough research, maybe I'd buy it, but I already know that isn't the case. For something to be "BAR-NONE the best," it needs to actually be the best in any context. In reality, learning kanji rarely imparts much understanding on its own, and that shows in the popular teaching techniques for the language. Why do you think most of those 2136 kanji are learned well after elementary school? Do you honestly believe that Japanese kids aren't taking the best method for learning how to read? The understanding comes from other aspects of the language, kanji are just a tool, either to be used for clarity or, if you're like Mishima, to abuse for art.

All that aside, PROzess probably has the best point here. Even if your methodology was correct, the guide just isn't very impressive on its own.


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Jun Tenkawa
Post #511686 - Reply to (#511679) by Aaeru
user avatar
Member

6:35 pm, Dec 9 2011
Posts: 115


Quote from Aaeru
I think some of these comments on my guide are pretty unfair when I specifically said that this guide is only intended to get someone up to the point where they can play Japanese video games. NOT learn Japanese. This is not a Learn Japanese guide.

If you want to learn all of Japanese, yes - class is best. even I agree.

I have had heard stories about people who memorized 2000 kanji in one month. It's doable. So what exactly are you poking a stick at?

These are the steps I took to learn how to read Japanese. It took me about 8 to 10 months to learn 2000 Kanji. Only two days ago I wrote a letter to yodobashi.com explaining to them why they shouldn't cancel my preorder on my PS Vita due to some security issues revolving my credit card (in the end I had to ring them up). I don't understand why all the hate. If you do some research about the most popular Japanese learning techniques, this (for reading) is BAR-NONE the best.


Memorizing just the kanji isn't much of big feat. Anyone can do it given the time. Just because you know how each of the kanji looks doesn't mean anything. Oh and classes help to a certain degree, but in the end it just comes down to you and how much of an effort you put into learning these kanji.

Learning the different readings, the different meanings and how it's used in context is the hardest part of everything. And to do this you already have to have a certain knowledge of the language to understand this. That's why for the most part when people try to learn kanji, they're clueless. This method you provided works for a few people (and I mean really few) because unless you have prior knowledge of the language, you will never get used to reading it as well. If you can speak japanese fluently, but never learned kanji, yeah this method may help, but for those who don't know jack squat, this is useless.

Last edited by Jun Tenkawa at 6:47 pm, Dec 9

sakura8429
Post #511695
Member

8:00 pm, Dec 9 2011
Posts: 211


wow, a lot of people suddenly become experts in language learning.

seriously, he's just suggesting a method to learn how to read japanese, which in no way will harm anyone. in fact, it is successful enough for him that he's able surf those japanese sites. a lot of japanese primary schoolers still can't do that (after years of learning)

i have friends that attend japanese english classes in uni but after 2 semester he can only do simple speaking like greetings, counting, descripting (acting in class etc)... and some simple reading. he can't understand japanese sites, or even anime without subtitles.in this case, it's a clear win for him. it's stupid to think that a 2 or 3 times a week class can achieve what Aeru did.

follow the guide and fap to those hentai games. that way you will learn japanese faster

Crenshinibon
Post #511698 - Reply to (#511695) by sakura8429
user avatar
Local Prig
Member

8:56 pm, Dec 9 2011
Posts: 1897


Quote from sakura8429
wow, a lot of people suddenly become experts in language learning.

seriously, he's just suggesting a method to learn how to read japanese, which in no way will harm anyone. in fact, it is successful enough for him that he's able surf those japanese sites. a lot of japanese primary schoolers still can't do that (after years of learning)

i have friends that attend japanese english classes in uni but after 2 semester he can only do simple speaking like greetings, counting, descripting (acting in class etc)... and some simple reading. he can't understand japanese sites, or even anime without subtitles.in this case, it's a clear win for him. it's stupid to think that a 2 or 3 times a week class can achieve what Aeru did.

follow the guide and fap to those hentai games. that way you will learn japanese faster


None of us said to only take a class. I explicitly said "go the extra mile" in my very first reply. You can't rely on any one technique alone, you have to make the effort in all areas to succeed at learning any language, not just Japanese. That aside, two semesters of instruction shouldn't make you magically able to understand an entire language. If you take a crash course at a language school, the sort where you're studying eight hours a day, that might be possible. But it's not without less effort, and a method with less effort involved is what Aaeru is advocating.

But, even assuming that you could, even Aaeru states that this isn't a method to "learn Japanese," so your eventual goal would still go unrealized.

I'm not quite sure why you, on the other hand, are so convinced this works so well. There's a reason that this system isn't largely implemented, and that's because it's a subpar methodology.

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