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Ciel's past: Inconsistent?

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unusuallove
Post #524556
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10:40 pm, Feb 20 2012
Posts: 710


So this topic is regarding Ciel's past and, specifically, the intentional (?) inconsistencies.

The inconsistency:

The first time we ever get an in-depth flashback in chapter 19, we see Ciel being sacrificed on a table and Sebastian arriving either afterward or during this process to save him and kill his enemies. This image is shown again in chapter 34, reinforcing the idea that Ciel was, in fact, being killed when Sebastian arrived.

But! In chapter 62, it shows Sebastian arriving while Ciel is still in the cage which contradicts what is assumed from chapters 19 and 34.

Even so, I might write this off as a mistake on Yana Toboso's part, if it weren't for chapter 54 which shows directly contradicting images of Ciel being rescued from the cage and Ciel with a huge wound in his torso from the sacrifice.

I then thought maybe that he was knifed first, then put back in the cage, then rescued, but I find this hard to believe for two reasons.

First, in chapter 54, he's shown being rescued from the cage on the exact same page and almost the same panel that he's shown being knifed. This suggests that it happened around or at the same time.

Second, a knife wound like that wouldn't just heal up right away, especially not untreated. Disregarding the fact that he's shown many times after the rescue without a gaping wound (since I suppose it's possible that Sebastian could have magically healed him somehow), you can still see in chapter 62 that even before the rescue he is uninjured.

So I have to wonder. Why the inconsistencies? It makes me almost think that the person shown in the flashbacks is actually two different people; one who died on the table, and another who was rescued from the cage. Also, what Ciel says in chapter 54 seems to only reinforce this idea and add to the confusion.

All of this is just speculation, of course, but it's really interesting. Any ideas about what might be going on here?

Last edited by unusuallove at 10:46 pm, Feb 20

AnjuxKuran
Post #524568
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12:00 am, Feb 21 2012
Posts: 386


I agree,
i feel like the writer changed the story halfway through


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BlackOrion
Post #524570
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12:05 am, Feb 21 2012
Posts: 733


Well, some time ago i would had agreed with you... but after reading in HnG how Hata Kenjiro didn't even know tigers come from Asia and how he tried to cover it up by making up a history of how Tama got separated from his family i kind of lost my ability to believe on mangakas. There is a chance he would just made up something to cover the mistake of the cage. (something among the lines of what AnjuxKuran said)


unusuallove
Post #524603 - Reply to (#524570) by BlackOrion
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2:50 am, Feb 21 2012
Posts: 710


Quote from BlackOrion
Well, some time ago i would had agreed with you... but after reading in HnG how Hata Kenjiro didn't even know tigers come from Asia and how he tried to cover it up by making up a history of how Tama got separated from his family i kind of lost my ability to believe on mangakas. There is a chance he would just made up something to cover the mistake of the cage. (something among the lines of what AnjuxKuran said)


I don't think so, because the first time the rescue from the cage is shown (as opposed to the original rescue from the table) is in chapter 62 AFTER chapter 54 in which both the rescue from the cage and the sacrifice are shown simultaneously in the same chapter. It's not like Yana Toboso (who, by the way, is a woman) drew 2 different flashbacks, then tried to cover it up by incorporating both flashbacks into one. For most of the manga, she had one consistent, if incomplete, flashback of just the table, then she added a flashback with both the table and the cage, then she added a flashback with just the cage.

Do you see what I'm saying? I might think it was a mistake too, if the order had been table, cage, then table and cage. But it wasn't. It was table, table and cage, cage. Up until chapter 54, there were no conflicting images, so she had nothing to cover up. But she still chose to use that chapter to show contradicting images. I don't see how it could be anything but planned.

unorthodoxromance
Post #527500
Member

9:45 pm, Mar 5 2012
Posts: 19


Yess!!!! I totally get that. Also, in chapter 34 on this page you see two hands holding onto bars through which you can see feet being led away, which makes it look like there are two different people in the panel.

ShadowSakura
Post #527502
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insomniac Kagehime
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10:05 pm, Mar 5 2012
Posts: 2705


i think you are in fact wrong. often demons are summoned with blood. i think that Ciel called Sebastian before (and he looked who called him), but to appear and make the contract he needed Ciel´s blood. in chapter 54 the Ciel in the cage who looks like the Ciel back then is only a mental image were Ciel sees himself dying and more a mix up of different images from that time like a chronological order.
Ciel begs for help -> Sebastian looks for summoner (Ciel) in ghostlike form -> Ciel being killed -> Sebastian actually summoned -> contract with Ciel

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LouEngine
Post #608350
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1:26 am, Jul 24 2013
Posts: 16


When I read the manga, I thought they're just messy flashback, it means they are not necessarily happened at the same time. ciel may be stabbed before he was put into the case. However, I agree with you the author may make some mistakes. I also remember sebastian put the contract seal on ciel's eye when he was in the cage. And these two pages show how the ceremony was held: 1 2
cage -> table
so ciel made the contract b4 he was put on table? that's impossible.
maybe ciel's flashback is just messy? haha

QQ13
Post #608353
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1:48 am, Jul 24 2013
Posts: 25


i just reasoned it as some sort of symbolism or the meeting occurred in ciel's mind
something along those lines

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