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The Lolicon Shotacon Debate

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TK201
Post #535120
Member

11:10 am, May 6 2010
Posts: 5


Just let mangakas draw what they want, let publishers publish what they want, and let the readers read and own what they want. Leave it as it is, keep the information open, give it a place, and let those who want it, know it.

If you are going to ban shotacon/lolicon then why not ban violence too? If you think that shotacon/lolicon will give a person the urge to do what he is reading, then isn't the violence genre where killings abound need the most attention? people watch violent movies, they play them and yet only a very small percentage of those imitate what they have seen right? The same goes for loli/shotacon, but the audience is much smaller and the probability of someone imitating it is even smaller, if not none, as a true pedophile would not want 2D art but rather real children to satisfy his disgusting fetish.

Oltec
Post #535121
Member

4:10 pm, May 6 2010
Posts: 2


Last week I sat down and clicked my way into some porn. Iíll start off by saying it: Yeah, I watch porn. Most people do, although not most people will admit it. But I do. And guess what? Iím nothing like that clichéd image of the guy watching porn, sorry to disappoint. Iím not some huge, sweaty, morbidly obese shut-in sitting in some dark basement in his boxers that you can barely see because of the folds of fat covering it, with pizza stains on his chest, multiple chins and a neck beard. Nope. Iím just a regular guy and I even have a girlfriend. And guess what? She knows I watch porn - and sheís OK with it, too. While weíre there, Iíll also add that porn hasnít ruined the way I view sex, either. Iím not expecting my girlfriend to do anything weird and Iím not wishing our sex life was more like what I see in the videos. Porn hasnít made me disrespect my girlfriend and and it hasnít made me want her any less.

Yeah, I watch porn. And I start by saying that because I donít want the rant to be about porn. I honestly donít care if you approve or disapprove of it. If youíre old enough to watch it then youíre also old enough to understand that different people feel differently about certain things. I do feel itís about time we just got rid of the stupid taboo surrounding pornography and sex in general and realize that humanity has got much more important things to worry about than to fuss and complain about something weíre actually programed to do and enjoy. But still, thatís another subject entirely.

So anyway, I went to access a porn site and it took my directly to my ISPís homepage. So I tried again, same thing. Then I tried some other sites with the same result. It would seem that my ISP simply decided to block access to some of the biggest and most popular porn sites on the net. Their argument? Child pornography. Now, perhaps we canít agree on the validity of porn, but Iím sure we can all agree on certain things, right? We all agree that douchebags wear Ed Hardy clothing. We all agree that Darth Maul died too soon. And we all agree that child pornography is bad. Right?

This of course got me wondering if perhaps I was the only one unable to access these sites, so I do a little bit of searching. As it turns out, a while back the Colombian (thatís South America, for those of you a little behind on your geography) government determined that all Internet websites with child pornography in them should be banned, blocked and made unavailable to Internet users in Colombia - and that I applaud. I mean, sure! Weíre all against child pornography and child abuse, arenít we? So I naturally have nothing against my government blocking any access to sites with kiddy porn in them - I mean - itís not like I was planning to visit those anyway.


But when I discovered last week that one of the largest porn sites on the net was being classified as ďdangerousĒ because it had child pornography in it I got to thinking: how exactly would they know that? I might be going out on a limb here, but Iím pretty sure this didnít really involve any research or investigation of any sort. Iíve been checking that site out for well over a year and Iíve never seen a kid in there. And accusing anybody of child abuse is a serious thing, not a finger you should just run around pointing at whoever you feel like. Just because itís a porn site doesnít mean you can wildly accuse them of stuff like that, and just because a woman looks young it doesnít mean she is young.

It just means sheís lucky that way. Good for her to look younger than she really is.


By now, thereís probably a few of you moaning and groaning, saying ďthis guy is just horny, send him a pic of a boob alreadyĒ. And thatís not it. Any self-respecting geeky net surfer knows how to go around blockades of that sort, and as far as me watching porn goes all of this is nothing more than a nuisance to me. All it means to me in that regard is that I have to do a few extra clicks and thatís it, I can watch the porn I wanted to watch with no problem. So trust me, this isnít about the porn. Itís about other people making my decisions for me. Itís about my rights. Itís about how I should be able to access porn if thatís what I want. Iím an adult and thatís enough to make my own choices regarding what websites Iíll be visiting.


It just so happens that my country has a campaign called ďInternet SanoĒ (thatís ďHealthy InternetĒ, roughly translated), and the idea is to protect children from abuse and such. And again, Iím all for that. But one of the other aspects of the campaign is that according to a law from 2001, anybody can report a site that they suspect is displaying child pornography. Then the police has to look into it and if they decide that itís true, then an act is passed forcing all ISPs to block that site. And again: Iím pretty damn sure such an investigation never went beyond looking at the site and saying ďyup, she looks younger than 18″.

But ďInternet SanoĒ is also about protecting ďourĒ children from exposure to material intended for adults - and thatís where I stop agreeing. Why? Well, for starters, there is no such thing as ďourĒ children. Theyíre your children, because I donít have any. Iím aware thereís a lot of responsibility and inconveniences involved with raising a child and thatís why I decided not to do it. I wonít go into a discussion about the general attitude society has towards having kids and all that, but I guess that it can be summarized in saying that if you decided to raise kids I shouldnít be forced to raise them with you. What this means is that you should be the one worrying about how youíll block sites with adult content in your home and I shouldnít have to worry about how Iím going to manage to access them.

Claiming that the blockade of a few porn sites will help stop child abuse is the equivalent of claiming that youíll stop women from getting raped in the woods by burning down the forest. Itís like claiming youíll stop people from polluting the river by drying it, that youíre going to fight shoplifters by shutting down all the supermarkets. Thatís just not how it works and youíre not really fixing the problem, at best youíre just covering it up. Child abuse is wrong because youíre abusing a child. If you film it thatís also wrong, of course. But just because you took the pedophileís camera away it doesnít mean heíll stop raping kids. It just means he wonít get to film it. Never mind that the legal age of consent in Colombia is actually 14 years of age. You can go ahead and have sex with the pre-teen if you want to - just donít film it (sarcasm, OK?).

But again, this rant is not about children just as it isnít about porn. Itís about how my government decided to block the porn with what is clearly a rather wild accusation (Iíd be willing to bet that most if not all of those huge porn sites are ready and quite capable of defending their contents). Itís about how the net in Colombia is no longer neutral.

Basically, shielded with a law we all agree is good, decisions were arbitrarily made. In the heated climate of todayís world, child abuse is a big issue, and ďthe peopleĒ demand action. Internet porn is an easy scapegoat because most people wonít be able to go out in public and demand to have it back. What comes after they block a few porn sites? Well, they block a few more. If they can do that, what keeps them from blocking porn in general? After all, some of the tits in there arenít wrinkly enough, they must be under aged then! But you know what? The ISP that blocked my porn also handles cable TV, and for a few extra bucks do you want to guess what kind of channels you can get? Yup, porn.

The randomness of these decisions really makes you wonder what comes after porn. Will it be sites about paganism? How about sites with violence? Perhaps sites that speak against our government? Or against religion? When the net starts overloading with data and decisions need to made about what comes and goes, how will those decisions be made? Iím not expecting porn to be a priority then, but can I really trust for the decision to be made objectively? Or will it be made based on the moral judgement and superstitious beliefs of one individual? I really donít need to tell you about the ďslippery slopeĒ that comes after blocking a few porn sites, but perhaps I can make you wonder about how close your own country is to mine. Weíve all seen this happen in China and felt itís so far away that thereís no way itís gonna happen here. But believe me when I tell you that these things are contagious. As soon as one country does it the next country feels like they can do it too.

In closing, itís not about the porn. Really, as soon as I discovered what was going on I took all the necessary detours and saw it anyway. Itís about how the battle of net neutrality is also taking place here where I live; and it starts with the blocking of a few (big) porn sites. Spread the word.

Good hunting;
O

Oltec
Post #535122 - Reply to (#535106) by EtceteraSpeed
Member

9:17 pm, May 6 2010
Posts: 2


And I think the same way about yuri and yaoi manga, ewwwwww - two people of the same sex having sex is gross and I dont like it, dont watch it, dont read it etc....but just because it is not my cup of tea doesnt mean we remove access to it because I am offended. I am an adult and no one is forcing me to read or watch yuri/yaoi related materials nor do I force others into my opinion on the subject - case closed.

natalus
Post #535123 - Reply to (#535120) by TK201
Member

12:31 am, May 7 2010
Posts: 4


nice arguments ^_^

derpMonster
Post #535124 - Reply to (#535121) by Oltec
Member

9:43 am, May 7 2010
Posts: 43


THEY WILL NOT STOP UNTIL THEY SHUT DOWN THE INTERNET
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkmcupFx3FQ

demon_god03
Post #535125 - Reply to (#535114) by demon_god03
user avatar
Member

1:50 pm, May 7 2010
Posts: 29


You know, the powers that be that are in charge does not equate them to be the opinions of the majority. If they were, there would not be such huge opposition to the Olympic tax in British Columbia. Now if we are talking about just the situation on the website, that is not the majority opinion either, but rather the companies getting information from one guy on the internet looking for attention and wanting to save their company image.

________________
A battle has been fought, and is now over.
Place your sword upon the ground, and rest in the temporal peace. After dozing in the warmth of a dream, a new day will begin.
rainexoxo
Post #535126 - Reply to (#535124) by derpMonster
user avatar
Member

5:35 am, May 8 2010
Posts: 17


OMG! That advertisements is scarily realistic. I could see some company promoting that kind of service and some politicians agreeing.

tycio
Post #535127
user avatar
I am gorgeous pill
 Member

12:36 pm, May 8 2010
Posts: 14


I'm glad to know that the MU staff agrees with free speech and would only do such things out of reactionary precaution rather than bein' a hater.

________________
-ty
derpMonster
Post #535128 - Reply to (#534821) by Manick
Member

9:50 am, May 9 2010
Posts: 43


hi! er so for the lolishoter, you've decided to not have a page for them ? - for the past few days, those series - only the name of the manga/dj and scanlating group turns up - not link to a page.

is google ok with that smile?

i hope they still support MU and help you guys keep up the great work. this is a fantastic resource!

derpMonster
Post #535129 - Reply to (#535126) by rainexoxo
Member

9:52 am, May 9 2010
Posts: 43


a lot of politicians around the world in a lot of countries do agree.

and protect the children will be used as the first defense against any CP - real or virtual, to control the freedom of speech.

look up - DEBill, ACTA, Dangerous Cartoons Act UK, Canadian Cross Border Anime restrictions.

because the governments finally want to control the internet.

derpMonster
Post #535130
Member

9:53 am, May 9 2010
Posts: 43


for the past few days, those series - only the name of the manga/dj and scanlating group turns up - not link to a page. so for the lolishoter, you've decided to not have a page for them ?

is google ok with that smile?

i hope they still support MU and help you guys keep up the great work. this is a fantastic resource!

(a repeat comment - so people can see it)

Lenalee-hime
Post #535131
user avatar
Member

4:24 pm, May 10 2010
Posts: 12


Well, I do think it's ridiculous to have a law about Fictive characters but it probably can't be helped. People who do the law don't read manga I guess.
IMO, the best would be the 2) solution and remove the links.

derpMonster
Post #535132 - Reply to (#535130) by derpMonster
Member

3:58 pm, May 11 2010
Posts: 43


ah gosh - the pages are now present. i assumed the wrong thing smile sorry for disturbing. thank you!

TheGentleman
Post #548561
user avatar
Member

4:58 am, May 1 2012
Posts: 3


Deleted, upon reviewing this post over a year later, I find it excessive. My apologies to offended parties.

Last edited by TheGentleman at 5:54 am, Mar 7

Scyfon
Post #548571 - Reply to (#548561) by TheGentleman
user avatar
Mome Basher
Member

5:26 am, May 1 2012
Posts: 3380


Quote from TheGentleman
God, I spent so much time wiping my computer after that download, I will stick to streaming hentai forever. Never again will I download ANY hentai, a cartoon isn't worth so much potential riskfor something I hate so much. mad Never again for any hentai. Never again. *Utter Disgust*
Get rid of Lolicon. Save hentai, save anime, save manga, save ecchi. But lolicon must GO.

Quote from TheGentleman
God, Save hentai, save anime, save manga, save ecchi. But lolicon must GO.

Quote from TheGentleman
God, Save hentai, save ecchi.

Hmm...for a man who brings up God multiple times in his post, you sure know how to show your piety.

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