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The Lolicon Shotacon Debate

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Post #534909 - Reply to (#534857) by gringe
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Bwaaah!
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9:50 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 838


That really wouldn't help the situation. Even if the alarmists are dumb enough not to notice that the loli and shota content was simply moved underground, they would simply move on to attacking MU for other issues like porn or piracy. The goal isn't to clean up websites they don't like; it is to destroy them.

Post #534910 - Reply to (#534893) by poptart
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9:51 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 8


"but most importantly i still would like to be able to search for a title and be able to see if it is shota/loli so i can avoid it."
I completely agree with this stance, which is why I voted to remove links and retain the information. I would, however, make people search for the sites themselves.

Post #534911
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10:00 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 437


Well, given that this site is primarily an information site, I don't think the information should be removed--after all, I use this site sometimes to make sure manga isn't loli/shota or hentai/yaoi/yuri/etc. So what I'm saying is, it's important to have information about series from those "garbage" genres, things that really shouldn't exist and that no one should really read, even if only for the sake of identifying them as such, that way they can be avoided. Now, given that lolicon and shotacon are indeed garbage, I see no problem whatsoever removing links to websites that host/scanlate them (and the same for hentai, yaoi, yuri, shounen ai, and shoujo ai, since those are the same kind of garbage). That way, Baka Updates is not expediting the veiwing/downloading of these series (we're really not a download site, anyways), it's only providing information about them. And, this way, if a person so desires to read these things, he/she is able to do so, he/she will just have to do a little more work of his/her own for it. In this way, the blame lies not so much on Baka Updates as on the person him/herself, which I think is fair.
Also, I just wanted to say that I think the policy about explicit images that we have right now is fine the way it is.

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Post #534912 - Reply to (#534865) by RilleL
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Bwaaah!
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10:05 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 838


It isn't the time to cut and run either. MU may be in some trouble but it would be in even worse if it decides that it needs to wuss out and start cutting genres and scanlators out of the site.

Don't fool yourself by saying censorship will stop attacks on MU. As I've repeated many times now, the alarmists do not care whether MU removes the loli or shota from the site. The values in Japan are different from the values in the rest of the world and scanlations are at best legally dubious. They will simply find another thing that offends them and continue to persecute MU until it is driven to the ground.

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10:07 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 8


If u do ban loli and shota it will only be the beggining. Soon they'll start calling for other stuff to ban.

Post #534914 - Reply to (#534822) by LinkMcCloud
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10:09 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 58


Technically loli and shota can be anything where the characters are under 18. And that's why I say don't do anything at all. Give them an inch and they'll try to take a mile. If you start bending over, the next thing you know you'll be head over heels and on your back.

Post #534915 - Reply to (#534914) by Achiyugo
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Legend and Hero
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10:17 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 80


Exactly. So your favorite teenage hero sees a tit, and all of a sudden your manga gets yanked.
Seriously, if they completely take this, we'll soon be left with nothing but a few shojo and mecha titles.
This site would eventually cease to exist.

Post #534916 - Reply to (#534858) by imderekyup
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Legend and Hero
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10:21 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 80


It would seem he succeeded. I guess being hated for the douche you are is better than being totally alone on teh internets.

Post #534917 - Reply to (#534911) by lynira
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10:22 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 838


I agree on some points made. Having the info on the genres so that people will know what to avoid is a cornerstone of a good information site.

I disagree with the elimination of links to scanlator sites, especially the wide swath that you've listed. I'm surprised you didn't include ecchi, genderbender or harem. Most sites do more than just one genre of manga and banning them for hosting controversial stuff is just insane.

Say for instance a lolicon site is hosting the latest scanlations of your favorite manga. Would you have the scanlators banned from posting new scanlation info or shown on the site without mention of it also being primarily a lolicon site? Of course you won't do either. MU should to keep people informed.

Post #534918 - Reply to (#534916) by LinkMcCloud
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10:27 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 6221


Orz...now I feel bad for actually linking it.

Post #534919 - Reply to (#534911) by lynira
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2nd wave MU user
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10:31 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 7784


Do a backflip too.

Post #534920
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Yaaawn
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10:32 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 746


Well, on one side I would say that you should change nothing because I feel that would be like giving in to censorship. But at the same time, I understand that if nothing is done you guys might have a hell of a time taking care of the site.

So... I would remove links to the downloads...

Removing the series itself would be ridiculous (in my opinion) because having facts about the series cannot hurt anyone. It would be like saying "having facts on Communism makes a site Communist and helps to train new Communist agents" or something along those lines.

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Post #534921 - Reply to (#534878) by Konbanwa002007
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10:41 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 27


Really, the only objectionable things in Negima are those few scenes with kissing, and only one of those was anything more than a light peck.

Post #534922 - Reply to (#534907) by Amagasa
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10:41 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 8


I think that Remove isn`t an option, You are not HOSTING!!!, you only inform about the new releases, Synopsis and descriptions about mangas,besides shotacon and Lolicon aren't genres only related to mangas HENTAIS, You can read and watch these genres in many mangas and Animes mixed with Comedy, Ecchi, Harem, Romance,Drama, etc. So what? all these good stories are gonna be censored? This is not Fair.

Speaking about the real problem Hentai manga with Lolicon and Shota Contents, I read Hentai, but I`m not very into Shota/Loli, so well I know sometimes these mangas have disturbing contents for some people, but all is about "My Own Free Will", So If there are people who read these genres, because they like them, They are Gonna read them In one way or Another, So Now What ? the people in gonna shut the eyes, and they gonna make like these genres don`t exist? Wrong Decision, The theory about: "We are gonna remove all the bad contents to prevent that these genres spread!!!" Yes It`s very beauty, but in the reality this Neither is it practical nor reasonable, because when the people is in abstinence, They tend to search more for it, although They at the beginning weren`t interested in these Genres.
In this way i think that Mangaupdates do an Important Job, because you host information about these mangas and You made clear warnings about the contents in these, I say, I've left to read many mangas because of You, at the beginnig I was ready to start the reading, until I check the information of the manga in your Website.
I think that you should place a Question to gain access in the information of These mangas, warning about the contents in them?
and Add more CLEAR WARNINGS in THE GENRES!!! IF the people read it, It`s up to them!!!

So What`s better begin to read a manga without know very well Its genres and Contents or to Have a Website where You can check all the information about the manga, and to get warnings from the people about the contents!!!

Well, Whatever I`m Faithful to MU, I vote for Free Information

Post #534923
Member

10:49 am, Apr 25 2010
Posts: 1


I am also strongly against Lolicon, I don't have strong feelings for or against Shota. I believe the the salvation of hentai will have to come with the severing of any connection or taint of CP, real or perceived.
I try not to judge fellow perverts lest I be judged, but I will not miss Lolicon and I would like to see the bulk of hentai material left for those of us that love and support it.

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