did you mean:
take down publishers
support the artists

if only the artists started to sell directly their mangas by internet, the paper publishers will go to hell,
i'm looking forward for that day

Thankyou very much

As a professional freelance artist (a US-based children's book illustrator—it's not manga or Japan, but it's similar enough), I think I can say with some authority that many artists don't have the time or resources to sell their own work directly by internet or other means. Some make it work—doing shows at schools/libraries, maybe keeping a mailing list or website to reach readers—but that takes a lot of time and dedication (and self-motivation, business smarts, etc...), which the artist could better spend working on art. I'm much happier leaving my publisher to sell the books while I focus on creating my work. Furthermore, without a publisher, I'd have to pay for the materials I need/printing/distributing my work all by myself! Maybe an established artist can go independent, if they have money to live off until they start making back the costs they put into the work, but I sure am thankful to have a publisher pay me for my work in advance or on completion of the job.

Seriously, publishers make everything a whole lot easier for me as an artist (selling my work, making a living off art) AND a reader (finding works I want to read. it would be a paaaain having to keep track of all the artists whose work I was interested in or discover new artists, if I had to track down each artist's individual website/distribution source.)

True.

And of course these titles are the money makers of the publishers. xD

heh, ya personally if i were with the coalition my overall strategy would be to ignore unlicensed series (isn't hurting them until its licensed, and scans being done could generate fanbase to get it licensed (making them money )) and unknown low selling series. scanlations help publishers make money up until the series gets popular enough, but once its popular enough they start hurting the sales more than they help it.

im not a lawyer either but i see many holes in this idea even if something like this could be set up. mostly the fact that something like this exists to protect the owners from legal backlash against lawsuits against the company, not suits against them personally. when going against a scanlation group they would be going after the illegal actions of individuals not the "scanlation group" even if something like this was set up..... a REIT (as you explained it, never heard of it before) wouldn't protect the signers from anything they did personally but from anything thrown at the company as a whole, so at most something like this would protect anyone owning a scanlation group, unless they participated in the scanlation group, and any members not owners would also have no protection as well. so useless really.

XiongMao-kun, please do me the favor of assuming I'm not an idiot and read my comments carefully. This is the second time you are arguing against an imagined statement.

I said, "and 2) sometimes already missing the speech and SFX". You can be completely certain that they do "occasionally" have sfx and redraws, and it does not contradict my statement. It depends on how the original mangaka did the raws. However, on average, officially licensed scans are easier to edit.

I never said they were not paid minimum wage. I know their salaries are *---*, which was why I decided against working as one (not that a tsl gets paid much higher at the start either). This doesn't have, and never had, an effect on my argument.

Awww.
I understand, but it sucks. ;( If the manga industry starts to ask series to be taken down...even though there are many, many series that don't get license in English at all. They are not translated in English, then the people who can't read Japanese/Korean/Chinese (like me) can't read and enjoy the series anymore. (so then there would be no point of buying the actual manga books either, because we can't understand it)
& sometimes series get dropped after being licensed in English for a while. (ex: Genju no Seiza. my sister loves the manga, but tokyopop dropped it, after the 5th volume i think). Sigh. ;(

What I hope for, is that the companies don't ask to take down series that don't have an English publisher.

________________
SORRY ; looks like I'm only into ninjas, shinigamis, wizards and alchemists.

That is actually the point I was going to make... If the manga did not sell as much as it would in the western countries they would get dropped... so if I make a suggestion, if the manga did get dropped why not just find out which chapter and volume they stopped translating it and start from the ones that they did not translate after all they did dropped it...

Oh hey, Genju no Seiza 8 is coming out next month actually! (august 3, according to amazon. like... in a week!!) One of Tokyopop's staff tweeted a picture of the cover (of the actual book, so it definitely exists!) just last night; you can see it here: http://twitpic.com/2902gt

I only learned about the series after it had been "dropped" (aka put on hold), so I'm so thankful Tokyopop was able to bring it back and give me a chance to show my love for the series by buying it now, even if I'm a little late. Tell your sister to look for it too! (and if she hasn't picked up volumes 6-7 yet, those were released before the series went on hold. if your bookstore doesn't carry them, it'll probably be happy to take a special order and get them for you. or there's always amazon, right stuf, etc....)

Hi, I don't view scanlation as illegal per se. recall that only two weeks ago google won a similar argument against big-wit viacom:
http://www.deadline.com/2010/06/youtube-wins-long-runn ing-viacom-lawsuit/#more-48973

Scanlation groups do have rites. I remember when a popular group many years ago was asked to remove one of their scanlations by a company and was sent a cease and desist letter. They were so scared that the changed their name, I don't know it they were legally advised to do so, but it just seemed like a cop out to me. In my country there is a saying, only bold face people get what they want. I think if a scanlation site didn't run scared when adversely singled out by member of the industry then scanlation groups would fair better in what they do. Which is providing a free service that others would charge for. There is a reason why some in the industry are researching the best way to work alongside scanlation groups in the future rather than with big corporations to scanlate their work and to package it around the world. If it weren't for scanlation groups, many mangaka's would not be as popular as they are today, in foreign markets. I can't tell you the countless amount of mangas that I just have not finished reading since they have been dropped by scanlation groups. I live in the middle of no where, and on top of that the conversion rate of us to local $$ is over 5 dollars. so if an entire volume cost us 100, it cost me more than 500 locally. So forget that, love you but not that much. So in that case rather, I have purchased paperbacks of manga that I have read the scanlated version and liked. I have only bought the original Japanese version to boot, I don't trust viz or tokyopop to properly scanlate anything i have read. I have already seen the horror stories of when they get involved in reinterpreting work. So i would much rather buy the Japanese version that i can't read, keep the scanalated version. I have even bought Japanese versions of books that the scanlators have dropped. Not being able to read the end. So if there are any Japanese industry types out there reading this message, I would prefer them to use a free scanlator, to pay them a flat fee in order to translate their work rather than viz. Look how they mucked up naruto with that lousy phrase: "Believe it!" Over and over and over again, It was sooooo anoying. And even this past summer with avatar, not related to viz, but they changed anng to onng, and it waaaaas a us animation. A US animation series. I just don't trust the Big companies when it comes to scanlation. I want to read, hear and see everything related to that mangaka's work. If companies were to start releasing work with exact translation in meaining and the free scanlation sites gave it a thumbs up like one did recently for June, then yes I would buy it. But not haphazardly on the fly if it was being sold online just like that or in a bookstore. Not for the kind of money they are asking for. It is a selling and buying relationship, and too often copyright industry like to act as if consumers have no rights and court judgments often digress in that direction. Hopefully with Google taking up the cause, maybe will make it better for all of the consumers.

that's not what i'm asking. i'm asking about ENGLISH versions. >.>

...

Scanning, translating, modifying, and re-distributing copyrighted works was always illegal, always piracy. Most people interpreted ignorance as apathy, and operated under the delusion of unspoken consent from publishers/authors, some didn't care, the rest were just whores. Eventually the whores refined their whorish game and starting making money off piracy. The only problem is some forgot piracy is illegal and choose hosting companies in english speaking countries. Which threatens the entire fan translation culture. Sadly, the whores aren't exactly going to stop whoring just because of legal threats. Which means the few groups with online reading who might consider complying with cease and desist letters aren't the people who are going to ruin everything for everyone.

So... stop acting like scanslating/fansubbing is legal and suddenly there isn't any problem. Don't use first world hosting, don't do online reading. If all someone has to do is go to a website and click a link to read your translations, you're at risk. Accessibility is the enemy. If someone steals your illegal translations to host on a website, let them. Let them take the risk. If s/he gets shut down, relocate. The panel of weak excuses used to justify scanlations won't protect you, never protected you. The only thing that protects you is obscurity.

You know, I can sympathize with the authors, publishers, etc. & I would agree wholeheartedly that sites need to take down what has been licensed in the U.S. except for this: I NEVER would have read a manga if it weren't for the online sites because even in big cities you can't find mangas for anyone other than little kids. Without the sites, I won't know what's out there & without reading a good portion of the manga, I won't spend my money on it. It's too much of a risk. I have read LOTS of mangas that if they were available here (in English) I would've purchased them already - especially if I could get a completed set at once (I hate missing parts). Many of them have great messages within the story that I think everyone needs to read; things like never giving up, & giving whatever you're doing your best shot, learning to trust someone, starting over, learning to make friends, standing up for yourself in the right way, etc. If I could get them, I'd make them part of my home library. Without reading the mangas, I would never know that they have these 'messages' in the story & if they remove those that are licensed completely from the online sites, I won't be buying them because I won't know what they're like & they're not available where I live even though I live a major city. (I've been looking.) The only ones I can find are for younger kids because the booksellers don't know mangas.

So, until they can educate the booksellers & create a plan to sell genres other than those for kids, removing even licensed ones entirely from the sites is a really bad idea because they'll lose the ability to reach a wider audience.

They also need to reduce the price a bit. $10 (or more) for one book is a little much especially when the set may have 5, 10 or even more in it. Though I'll spend more for the ones I really like, I won't spend that on the average manga when I can buy a novel with over 300 pages in it and spend less than that. I know that one is text and one is art but, from what I've read, it takes a longer to write a novel than draw a manga, and there are fewer pages; (e.g. when was the last time you heard of someone taking six months to a year to draw a manga?) Plus, with today's printing there's virtually no difference between black & white text and black & white pictures. I guess that would mean fewer color pages but I can live with that. Besides, that's what 'special editions' are for.

A big city in the US? I'm surprised that a big-city bookseller doesn't have a decent manga selection, but if you've been checking recently then I trust you know what you're talking about. I live in a decent-sized city with a couple B&N stores and local-chain bookstores, and they all have a pretty good manga section—the store I usually go to does have a separate area where "kids'" manga is shelved, along with a much bigger section with a wide range of titles, from the mainstream Shonen Jump/Shojo Beat/Tokyopop/Yen/DelRey stuff to more mature stuff like Viz's Signature line and a number of Vertical's books. There are titles they don't get in (like, anything from CMX (back when CMX was still alive...), or Kaze Hikaru, Crimson Hero...) but I just ask the folks behind the desk to order the volume I want, and voila, they have it for me in under a week (usually 3 days or so). So try asking your booksellers to order titles you're interested in, bug them about why they don't carry a wider selection—show them there's an audience they're losing by not carrying what you want to buy!

As for cost—I think it's been mentioned here and elsewhere, but manga is not cheap to produce. Unlike in Japan or for mainstream text-novels in the US, there's a very small audience for it, which means print runs are small, which means the cost to print each book is higher. Licensing, translating, lettering, editing, distribution to bookstores and bookstores' own profit margin raise the price too (and again, if there's a low number of books printed, this means a greater percentage of the cost per book goes to making that money back for the publisher). So, I agree of course that it would be great if manga could be cheaper, but I understand why it can't realistically be so, the way the North American manga market is now.

However... B&N and Borders regularly have coupons and/or membership discounts. Online manga/anime store Right Stuf runs publisher-sales all the time (through tomorrow, ALL Viz manga (and anime (and other)) is on sale for 33% (40% with a membership discount), and shipping w/in US is free for $49+ orders (if that's a lot for you, ask a friend or two if they want to go in on an order with you!) Amazon.com gives discounts for any manga over $10, and has free shipping for $25+ orders. So really, if you don't want to pay full price for manga, there are a lot of ways around it. My 635-volumes-and-counting manga collection attests to that

(seriously, y'all, I can't support the manga industry on my own!! I'm trying, but...!)

One more thing and I'll end my brick of a post. A lot of North American publishers are developing or continue to offer ways for people to preview their books.
-Tokyopop has ~20pg previews of manymany books they publish on their website (note you can arrange the results alphabetically or by release date, etc; choose to show just the first volume or all volumes of a series).
-Viz has two sites with multiple chapters of series running like a sortof online "magazine": SigIkki, [url=http://www.shonensunday.com/top.shtml][/url] (posts new Rinne chapters simultaneously with Japan); and also has samples available at their Shonen Jump and Shojo Beat sites.
-Yen Press just launched the online version of Yen Plus last weekend—the first issue is free and subscription for future volumes is $3/month; the site can be accessed around the world, not just in US.
-Square Enix has a new manga site which at the moment hosts first-chapters of some of their titles published here by North American publishers. Their next update is scheduled for tomorrow, so I'll be looking to see what they have in store.
-Vertical has nice long previews of many of their titles on their website, which I've definitely found useful in deciding if a series is for me or not.

So there are ways to preview manga on authorized sites before buying, and I expect this to become more and more prevalent in coming months and years. And of course there are tons of manga review blogs, or you can try things at your library (if they don't have a title, see if they take requests—I've requested two new series in the last month and gotten my library to promptly order copies so I could try them out before deciding to buy).