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New Poll - Scanlation Watermarks

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auriga
Post #539276 - Reply to (#539263) by philip72
Member

11:59 pm, Feb 11 2012
Posts: 263


Yes the real owners of the work are the mangakas and the publishers; this fact is undisputable. But that also means that non-paying readers do not have the right to said work. No leecher has the right to complain about not enjoying (free and illegal) manga at 100% the way he/she wants it unless he/she stops being a leecher and legally obtains manga by buying the it from the publishers.

The problem is most people see scanlation as an end. It's not. It's nothing more than a stopgap until
1. The series gets licensed
2. The reader learns nihonggo and imports from Japan

Leechers can make a long list of excuses as to why they can't legally obtain their manga but at the end of the day they're still excuses. The fact remains that the ball is in the reader's hands; they either choose to buy their manga or suck it up and make do with what the scanlators provide.

dosetsu
Post #539277
user avatar
Site Admin

12:35 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 52


So much retarded in this article.

I've always wondered why articles on scanlator ethnics are even posted.

philip72
Post #539278 - Reply to (#539269) by PROzess
Member

1:35 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 40


The actual intent may be to deter online readers, but it still implies ownership.
Saying "We created this scanlation, therefore we can dictate where it can and cannot be hosted" really is insinuating proprietary rights on the behalf of the scanlator.

Now don't get me wrong, I loathe online readers, they're the worst possible way to read manga (aside from web comics).
I also think Mangafox, MangaHere, etcetera are a pack of thieves (the fact that Batoto pays scanlators revenue bothers me too), but watermarks are not the way to fight them. Trolling fans with unreadable releases is not the way to fight them either.

Watermarks are the scanlator version of SOPA and PIPA. They're pissing off fans, implying proprietary rights, and are ultimately ineffective.

Is there an American law student that can chime in on this? I'm afraid my knowledge is limited to Canadian law.

RiK.dfs
Post #539279 - Reply to (#539278) by philip72
Member

1:46 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 61


Watermarks are in no way similar to SOPA/PIPA. They are more like an identifier, or branding mark. Mainly to let others know that they were the ones that scanlated that chapter (there are series scanlated by many different groups).

It does help deter some cases similar to Tazmo. Most of them aren't implying rights to the work....but to simply note that they were the ones to provide that scanlated release.

Though the groups trying to release ONLY to an online reader where they get paid for it ARE in fact bordering on rights infringement.

The main problem is that groups are experimenting to find a way similar to watermarking in order to control their releases. I recently came across one where you had to unzip the file then open in a web browser or the pages would be out of order. (Kinda stupid since all the material was ALREADY downloaded). Also watermarks that blink on/off are REALLY annoying.....especially the ones that cover 1/4 of the page making it nearly unreadable).

philip72
Post #539280 - Reply to (#539272) by D_P
Member

2:18 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 40


Scanlations can be somewhat ethical, as long as they:
a) Only scanlate titles not currently available in english, and cease scanlation the moment a title becomes available in english.
b) Accept no monies whatsoever, from any source, for the scanlation itself (ie; Depositfiles payoffs, Batoto revenue, commissions).
c) Do not assert ownership over any part of the finished scanlation.

gringe
Post #539281 - Reply to (#539274) by naridas
user avatar
Member

2:21 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 113


I couldn't really read most of your post, but I don't actually read scanlations for the most part, so no, it's not because I "want it now." By "immersive" I mean that throwing in notes about the real world takes readers out of the world they're creating for themselves when they're reading, yanking them back to reality.

gringe
Post #539282 - Reply to (#539272) by D_P
user avatar
Member

2:25 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 113


Much what philip72 said... Realistically most manga will never receive an official translation so I don't see scanlation as inherently immoral unless you start laying claim to scans or trying to make money off of it. Even if scanlations didn't exist, I doubt the markets overseas would be big enough for a lot of the more obscure and potentially controversial stuff out there. You think an American publisher would release Yomeiro-Choice or Iinari! Aiburation? Probably not.

philip72
Post #539283 - Reply to (#539279) by RiK.dfs
Member

2:26 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 40


Just to clarify, when I said watermarks were similar to SOPA/PIPA, I was referring to the response that they elicited in the online community, and their ineffectiveness in regards to the problem their addressing;
not that two stalled federal bills on piracy are the same thing as a watermark on a comics page.

gringe
Post #539284 - Reply to (#539273) by shinshuu
user avatar
Member

2:28 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 113


I do buy manga and I don't even really read scanlations. However I do some scanlations myself (look up XLG; I was involved with pretty much everything we've released) so I inevitably hear about this kind of stuff. I disagree with what you see as the purpose of scanlation since the majority of manga will never be released outside of Japan and I don't care if what the Chinese do is worse. We don't have to be like that, and we weren't until a year or two ago.

Toto
Post #539285
user avatar
Site Admin

2:29 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 2276


I'm not surprised at how high the no's are... I'm surprised at how l ow they are.

________________
"Officially, this machine doesn't exist, you didn't get it from me,
and I don't know you. Make sure it doesn't leave the building."
gringe
Post #539286 - Reply to (#539275) by PROzess
user avatar
Member

2:32 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 113


You're only validating the negative feelings people hold for you. Seems like a bad path to go down.

hollabaloo
Post #539287
user avatar
Member

3:19 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 54


I don't care about watermarks as long as they don't obscure the art or speech bubbles. It's annoying when they do, but I usually just shrug my shoulders and deal with it. It's pretty hard to complain about free manga unless the quality makes it unreadable.

shinshuu
Post #539288 - Reply to (#539284) by gringe
user avatar
Member

3:37 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 27


since you've already read it, the scanlation, might as well just buy the japanese copy to help the author out. Saying that you can't buy the actual manga in any way are all excuse for not buying and just wanting to read free high quality scans.

scanlation aren't to compete with publisher by releasing high quality scan too, this will only deter the reader from buying the actual book(both soft and hard copy). therefore, I fully support any form of degration on the scan itself to make it a lower quality one. this will incite leecher to contribute. Human naturally tend to want the best of the best, aka greed.

With regard the watermark, frankly anything goes as long as the scanlator doesn't said it "explicably" that they own it. Everything else is all in the grey zone, though some reader interpret it negatively.

As well, if you don't want watermarking, you should file you complaint on online reader site, it funny how they are still alive with nothing happening to them. They are the source of watermarking. Thank to them, many reader would stop going to the actual site to get the release and this can also by perceive negatively by the scanlator.
e.g., Scanlator: Why should I/we continue to scanlate when hardly anyone coming to the site. Maybe this just show not many people like this manga so we should stop. Maybe watermarking will tell the reader who did the actual work and they'll come here instead of thanking those ungrateful uploader who unload it to the reader site. Or we can just stop scanlating the manga.

As will the concept of "" is too linear/outdated to work in this scenario when it doesn't take other who make money from the fanwork into consideration.

Leecher should just be happy that nowadays it easier to grab the release than before when scanlator request contributing to forum, invites only etc... Although, to counter the aggregate site, more and more public scanlator are going semi to private just to prevent their release from entering the aggregator site. this will be a worser scenario that leecher hate when compare to this small watermarking. As well, they will request that their release not to be listed on mangaupdate (another counter measure), thus it be harder to find their existence.

________________
Aethereal, my world.
shinshuu
Post #539289 - Reply to (#539287) by hollabaloo
user avatar
Member

3:39 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 27


100% agree, as long as it's readable, reader shouldn't complain too much about it.

________________
Aethereal, my world.
shinshuu
Post #539290 - Reply to (#539280) by philip72
user avatar
Member

3:46 am, Feb 12 2012
Posts: 27


Or they can just stop everything and pack their bag. As long as they are releasing the scanlation, might as well be immoral or just plain ilegal. Anything that doesn't help the publisher and mangaka are all immoral. Some even wrote who they don't ant to see scanlation of their work online.

Not money whatsoever, then tell all readers site to just die then everything can follow the by fan for fan concept with no money invovle.

________________
Aethereal, my world.
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