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MangaStream Drops VIZ Media Licensed Series

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PROzess
Post #539450 - Reply to (#539414) by Li7hium
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Pissed Off TL0r
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11:56 am, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 97


The difference between me and you is, that I never read on mangafox and am trying to stop it.
And at least I'm helpful to the scanlation by translating. What do you to besides reading?

And to your argument of underage and no way to buy!??
You crazy?
That would mean it's alright to rob a bank when you're underage, because yeah, you don't have a choice do you? You would just go into any supermarket and steal the stuff you need. Cuz yeah, you're underage and have no means to buy it legally?
Great reasoning! I'm so proud of you dude!!

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Post #539451 - Reply to (#539420) by Li7hium
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11:58 am, Feb 13 2012
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So ecchi is good enough to be read for free on mangafox, but not enough to buy it?
That's some pretty screwed logic.
IT'S FREE. that's all what counts. And the official stuff costs money. A fact. Who would people go pay for stuff that they easily can access for free on mangafox? That's reality. It has nothing to do with genre.

It's stupid to argue with genre. Strangely, the ecchi titles are somewhat the most popular titles anyway.

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Post #539452 - Reply to (#539431) by Li7hium
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12:00 pm, Feb 13 2012
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If you are not satisfied with their quality, then write them a mail.
Ignoring them and going the pirate way isn't the right way.
If everyone would do that in real life with any topic, society would crumble.

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jrdragon2003
Post #539453 - Reply to (#539419) by T1
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12:08 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 674


You're talking about Amuro, yeah he made a big call on where online readers would take us. And it does make sense... I was never one to enjoy speed releases, or the leechers who kept crying for them to the point of group wars. I've even felt the same with how people were handling this watermark issue, like the ones going towards A-Team. (There is a point to what I'm saying stick with me now) But it goes to show how right Amuro and the gang were, scanslations was a total underground thing till online readers popped up, at least in my opinion. And then came along a lot of grandstanding groups that were made completely to spite another group for thier policies or release schedule. All of them made scans more visible, granted companies would find them eventually, but scans and groups back in the day were a lot harder to find. To this day I still remember and love the group null, the knew what they were doing wasn't legal but still wanted to share what they loved with others. Definitely wasn't legal, but bless them for it and their not so easy way of obtaining their releases. With online readers everybody is reading manga, which in know sounds confusing as why that's a problem, it means that it's no longer underground but open piracy with a strange sense of dignity.
Online readers are not really a problem, well the idea at least, if it comes from the companies that own rights to the manga. I've seen the concept work for the American comic industry (yes I said American comics with characters like Batman, Spider-Man, Superman, and such on a manga site), especially since print is still struggling. They've been working on converting themselves on having online releases for pretty much the same price a comic would be sold by, which can range from $2 to $5 (very rarely $5, mostly up to $3). I've yet to see any problems from DC or Marvel cause of it, or that I know of. It just shows companies need to grow with the times, but when you have easily accessable content owned by those said companies, it hinders the process. That's why it was better when scans were more underground and harder to get to.
Well hopefully my rant was understandable...

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Li7hium
Post #539454 - Reply to (#539450) by PROzess
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12:31 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 82


pfft. when did I ever say I read anything on mangafox? I only referred them as an example on how the online readers are making a huge profit with someone else's work. You, on the other hand, not only use an online reader to get your manga but also support online reading.

Also, you should re-read what I typed. I never said it was ok to do so, I did say that was one of the reasons. Is stating an obvious reason the same as saying it is the right thing to do? Apparently for you it is the same...

Oh well, I'm glad the majority of the people in this world doesn't think the same.

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Li7hium
Post #539455 - Reply to (#539442) by shinshuu
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12:49 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 82


Actually the kodak example was used to state my point of view of what can happen to today's manga distributing companies. I mean, before the photograph went digital kodak seemed to be simply unshakable in terms of market value and importance but all that changed in almost a blink of an eye. Why? Because you could start printing your pictures at home with the same quality and you stopped needing their "tapes" (dunno how to call them) in order to take pictures.

Same can be said about the manga industry. Right now VIZ is responsible for delivering many of the hit titles we read but who says it will stay this way forever? All it takes is a well known mangaka taking an bold initiative and it may trigger the end of said company. This is what I meant by the kodak example.

And a huge online reader, with the support of good mangakas (if one of the "big 3" supported this idea, for example), could actually be the turning point in this dominant control of VIZ. And to be clear, the online reader I'm talking about would be a legit one, where the mangakas would release their work straight to the internet, and colect whatever monetary income they could get out of it.

Of course it all comes down to the titles they could gather but I'll give you "the breaker" as an example. Who could have thought that title would reach the success it has now? And the internet has an advantage many don't seem to see. People are different so if a series is not a big hit in japan, for example, that doesn't mean it couldn't be a big hit anywhere else. A good example of what I just said is "Double Arts" that got axed in japan but I remember it being a good hit, at least from what I could read here and from the number of people reading it. This aspect would make things interesting, IMO, as we would start seeing artists having their own niches and manga itself could improve and get out of this never ending loop of ecchi material that seems to be the only thing being released right now.

Off-topic: How can a manga such as All-rounder Meguru not have been licensed already. That's probably one of the few good mangas that have been released in the last couple of years but still haven't managed to get itself picked by a good company. I would be very happy to see del rey pick this up soon because I prefer them over VIZ anyway :\

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Li7hium
Post #539456 - Reply to (#539451) by PROzess
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1:00 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 82


So, batoto is good enough to read from but mangafox isn't?
See what I did there?

And no, never said it was okay to read ecchi stuff online as opposed to read the other things. At his point I'm starting to think you are either provoking me on purpose or don't read what I write properly.

And to be clear on this, what I said is that ecchi material may be a huge hit over japan but from what I can tell (with friends, people I meet online, etc.) that isn't what most people want anymore. Sure, ecchi can still be fun to read but most titles that are being released only rely on this aspect (ecchi) and lack in pretty much everything else. You can't expect someone to buy a product that pretty much lacks in interest. Sure, people are different and like different things but if you actually stop to think most of the ecchi based titles end up being axed.. Yeah, must be because of the online readers..

Btw Prozess, I ask you again. What makes batoto okay and mangafox not? isn't batoto also profiting from illegally distributing copyright material?

And to clear things out I'm against both of them as long as they profit by making manga available online without the approval of the authors of said mangas.

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Li7hium
Post #539457 - Reply to (#539452) by PROzess
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1:14 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 82


Then why don't you, the translator of a group, follow their claims and stop what you are doing? See, it works both ways doesn't it? And you are one of the ones that promote the piracy in the first place aren't you?

And to answer directly to what you said, if I'm not satisfied with their quality I stop reading that series. If I end up liking it though that means I'll be buying the manga volumes that get released anyway.

And your sense of society amuses me to be honest. "Piracy is bad. Stop piracy." you say. But then, some posts above you mention you are a translator for a scanlating group.. Now that I think about it, who started calling a certain someone hypocrite?

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Li7hium
Post #539458 - Reply to (#539407) by T1
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1:18 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 82


Yup, I think harsher measures are going to be taken soon. I just don't understand why they only target the scanlators though. I mean, sure mangastream had all of the "big 3" but the online reading sites are what's making most of the titles available to anyone and those are the ones that profit the most out of their work.

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Li7hium
Post #539459 - Reply to (#539435) by thevampirate
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1:21 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 82


I think that won't work anymore. ACTA, once fully implemented, will prevent that from being a viable solution.

"At the very least they should be going after the aggregators not the small groups who dont profit off their licenses." <- I can't also understand this. The big profits are being made from online reading sites but those seem to be untouchable (mangafox has been around for how long?).

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Post #539460 - Reply to (#539456) by Li7hium
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1:23 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 97


Batoto isn't putting the money in it's own pockets.
It's distributing it among the scanlators. Not the perfect solution, as imo, scanlation can be done perfectly without any money. My group ran on full free hosting and I only took a small amount of donation to cover the volume purchases, that's it.
But the money mangafox makes is by far bigger than batotos.
And where does the money go? Into the pocket's of NOEZ. The scanlator buy new volumes or host their stuff with the money from batoto. But the money from mangafox just enriches the NOEZ staff.
No benefit to the community at all.

And about the ecchi stuff... Any group I'm affiliated with and my own releases too, get the most downloads on titles where there is ecchi -.-'

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Li7hium
Post #539461 - Reply to (#539439) by catandmouse
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1:25 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 82


"t's not even about the release schedule, it's about the translations, at least for me. I'm willing to wait a bit for releases, heck, I'd buy Bleach in a heartbeat, IF the translations weren't what they are. Maybe I've been spoiled by scanlators and other companies, but I like the honorifics, especially when they are as important to showing familiarity and closeness. So it bothers me to read Orihime call Ichigo "Ichigo" instead of "Kurosaki-kun" of Ishida also call him Ichigo, intead of "Kurosaki.""

I think this is what bother most people that DO buy manga and it certainly bothers me as well. They should leave the honorifics because that's one of the things most people like about manga.

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Post #539462 - Reply to (#539460) by PROzess
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1:58 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 82


But do those titles rely on ecchi alone? I know there are titles that have moderate ecchi content but also have a storyline. In those cases ecchi is kinda secundary because you actually see other characteristics that help define the title.

For example, when I started reading manga (like 8 or 9 years ago, can't really remember now) I actually like reading ecchi mangas because they were different from what I had been reading up until then. After 2 years ecchi stopped being something new and I started losing interest in titles that were completely based upon ecchi material. Nowadays I give a manga series about 5 chapters to "show me what they got" and if I can't see anything besides those overly used ecchi clichés scenes then I simply drop the show.

Of course thats not the only thing that makes me drop a series. As an example I have dropped One Piece although I have something like 20 volumes bought because the story is going nowhere and the author seems to be trying to milk the fans as much as possible with a very slow pace. But that is my opinion, I'm sure many disagree with me and still read One Piece. The only thing that makes me keep reading Naruto is the thought of it ending in about 1 and a half years from now and Bleach's ending has been announced so I'll end up buying the last volumes just to complete my collection.

I honestly hope there's an artist emerging that can revolutionize manga world because right now there's not many new ideas popping up, most things feel overdone and that's never a good thing.

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slove
Post #539463
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2:45 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 2


I'm a 12 year Jump subscriber. I subscribed to NewType when it was published in the US and Otaku and other magazine. I have bought 'official' DVDs, books, etc. I also have a decade's worth of Naruto, Bleach, etc.

Jump USA is being discontinued. The last print publication is on the newsstands now. It's being replaced with Alpha a website.

VIZ has an iPhone/Pad app to read their manga and watch videos. It's flop I hear with problems.

Jump subscribers such as myself have been offered Alpha (the new digital subscription) to compensate us as well as digital copies of 3 manga volumes only for Apple products (I don't own any apple devices only android ones).

VIZ is doing this to protect themselves as the business models they have picked are not producing the revenues they anticipated. Hulu + (which I also have) as well as Netflix/Amazon Video simply don't pay them that much per show. Crunchyroll? they get a better cut there, but again, you don't really have to have a paid subscription (like Hulu) if you're willing to wait a few weeks.

With the continuing demise of bookstores in the US, only online sales are left. Scanlators eat into this business.

Naruto and Bleach are moving into what are the FINAL arcs of their respective stories. Bleach has actually stated this in the storyline. Naruto and Sasuke are finally going to meet in a couple weeks as Naruto has finally come to terms with his potential power but still using pretty much the same jutsu as he has for the last 10 years. Simply put, this is VIZ's and it's Japanese counterparts last chance to capitalize on the two biggest moneymakers they have had, week after week, month after month, year after year. Cutting off the scanlators at the knees is the only way to protect this potential stream of money a this critical juncture, particularly for the Alpha website.

What are they going to publish after this? Yeah, I read the other stuff that's being published. It's good, it's bad, it's dumb, few have the potential for longevity as Bleach and Naruto. How long has Ichigo been in High School? It's time to move on. At least Naruto has gotten to grow up more from his original self.

I appreciate all the scanlators and the work they do. I wish I was talented with Photoshop to help them. Are they better translations? I'm not sure, since Japanese is a hard language to translate, and manga and anime are setup to make who/what they are talking about/to much more clear than regular Japanese which is much more indirect. Scanlators don't look at surveys of who is reading/buying their work, so they don't feel (like Viz does) that they have to cater to 8-12 year olds or 8-12 year old's mothers in terms of language constraints. The Japanese are less constrained, but that is continuing to change as Western influences contaminate more cultures worldwide daily.

I mark this as the beginning of the passing of scanations just as I morn the passing of good quality fansubs thanks to Crunchyroll. Even this site (Baka-updates) isn't what it was 5 years ago. That's copyright law for you.

PROzess
Post #539464 - Reply to (#539462) by Li7hium
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2:48 pm, Feb 13 2012
Posts: 97


I remember Kanokon being very popular when I worked on it...
And that seriously didn't had a serious plot...

What I wanted to say is, that a lot of people just read manga for the tit/panty shots. Even if there is no actual plot to it.
I totally prefer stuff with an actual plot. That's why I can't understand when I or someone else releases a chapter with pure fanservice, it immediately gets twice as much downloads.

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