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Antipiracy going overboard?

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Crenshinibon
Post #545205 - Reply to (#545196) by RS456
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Local Prig
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3:18 am, Apr 12 2012
Posts: 1897


Quote from RS456
There you go again with your assumptions. All I said is he made a fully functional 3d game The 3d quality is on par with the latest released Indiana Jones game. I did not say he made an extravagent game. You completely missed my point. One person was able to do all that imagine how much a team o ...


Given that Scyfon quite obviously works in the industry and has a fairly strong understanding of its inner workings, I daresay you're the one making baseless assumptions here.

Let's review:

We have: "my friend did this thing this one time and I can't spel correktly so obviously everyone can do this" vs. "As an active professional in this industry, I'm telling you this isn't the case. Stfu."

Hmm. Bets, anyone?

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EternalNightmare
Post #545236
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Memento Mori
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9:08 am, Apr 12 2012
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So stfu im a professional is a valid point and just because RS456 misspelled it is invalid? And neither has anything to do with this thread ...

Last edited by EternalNightmare at 9:13 am, Apr 12

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Scyfon
Post #545242 - Reply to (#545196) by RS456
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Mome Basher
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10:37 am, Apr 12 2012
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Quote from RS456
Is it that hard for you to accept the the bar raised on the average programming skill required now!

Assuming my engrish deciphering skills are still good... you do realize what you've just said there... right? laugh

Quote from EternalNightmare
So stfu im a professional is a valid point and just because RS456 misspelled it is invalid? And neither has anything to do with this thread ...

It's not like this thread was going anywhere anyways.

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elementalblood
Post #545244
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Black Rabbit
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11:12 am, Apr 12 2012
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Okay! On the actual thread topic!

I don't think antipiracy is going overboard exactly but it's certainly not addressing the main problem. They often go after "the little guy" in these cases because they're easier to catch and they write legislation to counteract the larger ones. I think that sort of action is flawed.

In a way it's like drug trafficking; getting an individual user is all fine and everything but it affects nothing in the larger scheme. Getting a dealer is better, still not a whole lot. If you say, manage to catch the leader of a ring, then you're in business. So if you catch people making a lot of money off of antipiracy, then you're doing a much better job than if you're only catching individuals who upload an episode on the weekend.

Sure, so long as the pirated product is cheaper than the market price people will pay for it but that doesn't make it right.

And really, if you're that picky about game/book prices, go buy used ones. It's not that big of a deal.

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RS456
Post #545245
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11:39 am, Apr 12 2012
Posts: 272


I think they should be more concerned about people who are illegally making a profits of their stuff then someone that does it as a hobby.

blakraven66
Post #545246 - Reply to (#545245) by RS456
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Omnipresent
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12:09 pm, Apr 12 2012
Posts: 6145


Quote from RS456
I think they should be more concerned about people who are illegally making a profits of their stuff then someone that does it as a hobby.

That's not an excuse as to why they should ignore "the people who do it as a hobby."

It's not like the people who profit from piracy aren't getting caught...you're just most likely hearing/reading about ordinary people getting caught more frequently since they're easier to catch and misinterpreted it as they're always just going after "the little guy"

Last edited by blakraven66 at 12:19 pm, Apr 12

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RS456
Post #545247
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12:54 pm, Apr 12 2012
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To catch hobby guys invasion of privacy is involved. Who knows how many peoples privacy they invaded to catch the hobby guys. People who are illegally profiting are in a way easier to catch but also harder. Unlike the hobby guys these guys have clear criminal intent. They are prepared ahead of time in case of a raid. In the event they get caught they would go as far as bribing the officer that caught them.

Badkarma
Post #545252
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3:30 pm, Apr 12 2012
Posts: 364


Quote from EternalNightmare
So stfu im a professional is a valid point and just because RS456 misspelled it is invalid? And neither has anything to do with this thread ...

No, as you said, the point isn't valid because it's irrelevant. Who cares if it's easy to code, hard, a 100 pages, a 10000 pages, greed fueled (greed in BUSINESS?? nawwww...) or if they keyed in each line of code with their dicks, breaking copyright is breaking copyright.

Anyway...

It's his hobby? We're using this excuse now? I mean, wow, I was unaware theft was allowed if you're pursuing your hobbies. Gee, I really like music, so I'm gonna e-mail Apple and tell 'em I'm exempt from any fees to my itunes account, since listening to music is a hobby of mine. Ooooooo... I also cut a lot of vinyl stickers and sandblast masks as a hobby, so I guess I'm now entitled to Adobe Illustrator! Great! Hey, I wonder if Steam's aware of this splendid hobby rule? They SOOOO owe me a refund...

...Yep. And I know I'm exaggerating your point, but seriously, this is almost what it sounds like you're suggesting.

Invasion of privacy my ass. That's just another excuse to hide behind, and you know it. It's no more an invasion of privacy than a surveillance camera catching you stuff a $60 game down your pants, and walking out the door of your local store. Look, certain files on our vast internets are being monitored for traffic, and for good reason - like child pornography. How is this an invasion of privacy if YOUR dumbass trips over a corner of the internet that's being monitored for illegal activity?

Don't act like there's some creepy dude locked in a dark room, naked, wringing his hands and twiddling his toes while watching every single move you make on the internet. That's absurd. What's being monitored isn't you, it's the website. It's more or less a "digital stakeout", and if one is dumb enough to enter the dragnet, well yeah, they're gonna poll your ISP for info. Hey, quit breaking the law if you don't want your privacy invaded.

I might -might- be able to understand if the guy was uploading something that's simply not available on any feasible marketplace, but Resident Evil 4? Uhh... didn't Capcom re-release RE4 HD on Xbox360 and PS3 not too long ago? Even if this isn't the version he uploaded, the game is readily available for purchase on a relevant piece of hardware.

Heck, even looking at old SNES games like 'Chrono Trigger' or 'Secret of Mana', they're both around 17-18 years old now, but S-E still makes them available for purchase.

Same with Index. It's readily available for purchase. It was on TV? Sure. Your point?

True story: I've never seen a single episode of Star Wars. Episode IV was released nine years before I was even born, and I'm pretty sure it's been broadcast on TV at SOME point. If not, I have movie channels, a DVR, and Netflix. Between the three, I'm fairly certain I could catch "A New Hope" any time I wanted.

Am I now entitled to a perfect digital copy from the internet?

No, that's ridiculous, and it's not like any of those services I listed are free. I pay for them.

Piracy is piracy, and even if I somewhat agree that the punishment's harsh, it's not like I, or the dude who got busted, am unaware that this is a possible consequence. It's the standard issue "sha yi jing bai" tactic that's always been used. Although, this tactic clearly isn't working on individual player level, and I think it's high-time piracy penalties are greatly lessened for "the little guy", but also enforced with MUCH more regularity. The burden being how to enforce such a thing without having to launch a gajillion frivolous lawsuits. It'd almost have to work like a traffic ticket, which is also ridiculous.

So sha yi jing bai it is, and it HAS proven effective against big players *cough*megaupload-and-all-the-filehosting-sites-that-freaked-out/c losed-down-because-of-it*cough*. Excuse me.

Last edited by Badkarma at 3:35 pm, Apr 12

CLC
Post #545254 - Reply to (#545247) by RS456
Member

3:50 pm, Apr 12 2012
Posts: 13


Quote from RS456
I think they should be more concerned about people who are illegally making a profits of their stuff then someone that does it as a hobby.


Under the premise of the definition of hobby as "An activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure." and of the definition of criminal intent as "the intent to do something wrong or forbidden by law."

A person who is distributing copyrighted content without the copyright holder permission as an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure
= The said person conducting an illegal activity against the copyright law on a regular basis in one's leisure time for pleasure
= A crime committed/criminal activity against the copyright law on a regular basis in one's leisure time for pleasure
= A crime committed with a clear criminal intent on a regular basis.

In court, an illegal activity that is committed only once could (not always) be consider/viewed as unintentional/accident if the defense provide a reasonable claim/argument/evidence to suggest unintentional/accident activity. However, if the illegal activity is committed more than once or on a regular basis, then it suggested/viewed as clear criminal intent and would not be pardoned/excused.

Quote from RS456
To catch hobby guys invasion of privacy is involved. Who knows how many peoples privacy they invaded to catch the hobby guys.


In all honesty, I won't be surprised if all of us who own an internet connection have once been a victim of our privacy being invaded... or if this very post I'm typing is being read by an authority... with the excuse of national security...

Quote from RS456
People who are illegally profiting are in a way easier to catch but also harder.


oxymoron..... (Definition of oxymoron = An oxymoron is a figure of speech in which incongruous or contradictory terms appear side by side.)

Quote from RS456
Unlike the hobby guys these guys have clear criminal intent.


As I explained on the earlier part of this post, in court and under the criminal justice system, both group would be viewed as having clear criminal intent.

Quote from RS456
They are prepared ahead of time in case of a raid. In the event they get caught they would go as far as bribing the officer that caught them.


I hope your not basing bribing police officer theory from TV shows/movies... But I'm going to assume you are not and continue onwards.

Police officers are not permitted to accept anything even if the gift is a simple token of gratitude. Police officers are required to decline any form of a gift because it can be seen as a bribe. In addition, the police officers are heavily taught that the individual giving the gift may use that against the officer at a later time if that same individual is a suspect for a crime to prevent police officers from being a victim of blackmailing.

Any foolish police officer that accept bribes under a heavily monitored (mostly by a team leader/supervisor in a raid or CCTV in police station/vehicle) and recorded (By video or audio - for training purposes) environment can find the punishment of this type of corruption taking place throughout the criminal justice system to be fined at least $10,000 and spend 2 to 20 years in prison.

It must be one amazing bribe for a police officer to risk at least $10,000 and 2 to 20 years in prison (that might housed other criminals that were arrested by the same said police officer...). Otherwise, the criminal has just added another crime for himself/herself to be given a more harsh punishment for going against the Bribery Act.

Last edited by CLC at 4:38 pm, Apr 12

RS456
Post #545353
Member

7:10 am, Apr 13 2012
Posts: 272


Unfortunately that is not how the world works. Police are not monitored 24hrs a days and for a crime like this they won't send out a a squad team because it is unnessary. Once police are away from their car they are unmonitored and no way the store owner will give the surveilance video in the event the police that raided him took his bribe. It would be the officers word that supposedly did the raiding against the complainant. Why do you think the world still has alot of prostituiton rings, illegal video stores (pirated and porn), and drug rings. There are still alot of not so honest cops around.

Piracy stores have hidden compartments or rooms to hide the pirated stuff and only have the genuine stuff out in the open. Its kind of like a ganeral store in a town I use to live in which is actually a drug ring undercover. Nearly everyone in town knows they are selling drugs there becuse of all the people (known drug addicts) that show up there but that store still isn't closed down.

Milleniummaster18
Post #545363
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Member

8:47 am, Apr 13 2012
Posts: 64


What they're doing is routine, it's just one guy out of thousands.

Doesn't stop piracy from growing, and as a sympathizer of the pirate side, I'm glad that it doesn't. biggrin

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Madzai
Post #545371
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9:46 am, Apr 13 2012
Posts: 26


A bit of OT but,
C'mon ppl open your eyes already! Just application of more harsh law never works. Living in Russia i saw rise of legal contence with my own eyes. In 90th and in 2000-2005 99% of all contents were pirated (games, software, music and even books). It's only changed after reasonable price policy, advertising, better services etc. and introduction things like steam and Itunes. If you want ppl to buy from you nowdays you must provide better service or they just turn over to pirates.
Why must i buy a film on outdated overpriced disk (even BD) if i can download it in one hour without ANY problems? Why must i buy horrible russian-translated manga or import english-translated manga (with additional cost) if i can watch it online? Where is LEGAL online manga service? I WANT to spend 100-200 $ on manga each month, to read old and new series but where is no such thing and looks like it's not gonna happens any time soon. There is a story from one russian journalist who tried to buy a LEGAL certain e-version of book. He spent an hour trying to find it. He dindn't and ILLEGAL copy was found in less than a minute. Another example - in Russia console games are overpriced so console piracy is still blooming. PC games prices are content and games sells well (e-marketing help a lot).

So unless companies provide us with worldwide user-friendly service with adequate cost and discount system (like steam) for manga and anime piracy will prevail. And public "exections" of single upladers,online manga readers, filesharers, torrent trackers shutdown not gonna help.

Seijurou
Post #545377
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✯ Sarcastic
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10:20 am, Apr 13 2012
Posts: 597


Stick it to the Man!

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raenef86
Post #545383
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Member

11:10 am, Apr 13 2012
Posts: 52


iliked the study that in us the movies arent pirated they loose most of the money due to months of later releases in other countries

u release it late u fail i would say

Oddwaffle
Post #545424
Member

5:53 pm, Apr 13 2012
Posts: 86


Is a pirate a rebel or a criminal? Are they the same? Rebels built most of the world. Either we're all children of evil criminals or our great forefathers were revolutionists. Piracy is closer to a symptom
rather than a problem. Restrictive copyright laws, monopoly and rigidity of the content provider industry (music, movies, anime, comics, manga, games...etc) made piracy a small problem into a worldwide symptom.

Whether piracy harm or help is debatable. Piracy have shown to increase exposure of a product and increases its sales in the process as long as the product is easily accessible (ex: iTunes). A fair bit of artists and movie producers have been shown to get more sales with piracy rather than without. Piracy have shown to make investors reluctant to invest merely because there is a high possibility that the product will be pirated.

The problem of anime and manga is the lack of accessibility. It's expensive or difficult to obtain their product legally. Crunchyrolls have shown that with increase in accessibility, reasonable price and high quality, it's possible to turn the highly pirate heavy (every single leecher is a pirate) subbed anime industry into something more profitable. Netflix is now dominating the download stream, surpassing bittorent in terms of traffic. Steam have shown that game developers can make better profits by just having their content delivered digitally with little restrictions (Steam DRM is as strict as signing up for a chat forum).

Copyright law is currently too strict to work with a growing world culture. Censorship is on the horizon because people fail to notice that the law is wrong. Currently, it takes 70~100+ years for movies and music to be available to the public under copyright law. Medicine patents law require less than half that.

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