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homosexual marriage

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jasonred79
Post #559969 - Reply to (#559955) by asmageddon
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6:57 pm, Jul 7 2012
Posts: 118


Quote from asmageddon
Except necrophilia, zoophilia and furry(?) are fetishes, while homosexuality is an orientation and something you are born with and by no means a deviation.
While furries are simply weird and imo should be accepted like anything else as long as it doesn't cause others harm, necrophilia and zoophilia are both highly controversial if not straight-out immoral because, well, in second case you're (obviously) doing it without consent and in first you're doing something greatly offensive to the dead and his/her family/friends/colleagues and introducing a risk of getting a disease you might inflict people with later on.

Besides, how do you even imagine marrying something that isn't even a person? If dogs or cats were sentient then sure, go on and allow marriage between them and humans, why not? But the problem is that they're not and they can't understand or consent to marriage


uh huh. yeah. So you're saying that if a zoophile walks into an LGBT meeting and says "I'm persecuted cause I'm in love with my dog" all of them should stand up and call him a monster or abomination or sexual deviant.
Uh huh.
You realise that is EXACTLY the same treatment that gays were getting from a lot of snotty gay bashers some time ago?
Or exactly the treatment that white black intermarraiges were getting back before the american civil war?
What gives YOU or anyone the right to say "oh... this case of being different is an orientation and normal but THIS other case is deviance and perversion"
And who is to say that what is deviance today doesn't become a social norm tomorrow?
Did a little research, and unlike homosexuals, zoophiles have not had the benefit of research projects to test whether it was something they were born with or some deviance that they picked up over time.

As for consent, er, well, if a woman starts doing naughty stuff with a male dog, and the dog mounts her and xxx xxx xxx, that's pretty much consent on the dogs part, right?

Also, the Greeks evidently had nothing against interspecies sex, which is why there's so many myths of offspring from human+animal, god+human, god+animal, monster+human, etc etc. Gods that were worshipped at the time too, not gods that were looked down on. IIRC there were various roman emperors that had sex with animals too.

Also, let's not forget something that I and almost all of modern society finds criminal: pedophilia. BUT, as mentioned earlier, it used to be legal in the past, and it is STILL legal now in certain parts of the world. And the "civilised" part of the world pretty much says "we sort of frown upon this, but it's up to your own countries laws to do so, and we will respect your culture and laws and religion and turn a blind eye to it"

So, is pedophilia natural or sexual deviance? ... huh. Don't think any studies were really done here either.

Anyhow, I personally decided to just let everyone have their freedom as long as it doesn't hurt anyone and I'll ignore the "morality" part.
Oh, BTW, that means that I also do not approve of "common" things like if a guy is cheating on his girlfriend without her knowledge, I'll let her know about it. ... whereas if I hear of some gay couples or I meet a dendrophile (makes out with trees), or whatever, it's none of my business...
Very unusual moral compass? Maybe. But I'm not confident enough in DNA and hormones and whatever to pass judgement based on "naturalness" or not so I just go by whether it's harmful or not...


asmageddon
Post #559972
Member

7:50 pm, Jul 7 2012
Posts: 104


I never said they should be persecuted (although necrophilia is kinda sick no matter how you look at it), just that it'd make little sense to allow human-animal marriage. (seeing as you didn't say anything about human-corpse marriage)

Besides, while I don't really know what exactly causes homosexuality, but considering that in the end humans are usually either attracted to human females or human males, it's not really mysterious as to why homosexuality would happen.

On the other hand you don't really see anybody being romantically attracted to animals. Most of the time it's just sexual exploration which might or might not evolve into a feeling of attachment. Same as people who have glass fetish or a feet fetish - even if it stays with them for a lifetime, it's still a fetish and not an "orientation".

Well, you could say it's the same kind of treatment homosexual people used to and sometimes still get, but then again you can't really call attraction to the opposite sex the same as attraction to animals or even inanimate objects.
With some exceptions animals don't understand relationship beyond fucking and having children.

NightSwan
Post #559976 - Reply to (#559871) by Crenshinibon
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Mad With a Hat
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8:19 pm, Jul 7 2012
Posts: 4598


Quote from Crenshinibon
1. In case you were ever wondering, this is why we're friends.

2. BTW, you're whining here. Should I buy NS a jackhammer?

On topic: I'm decidedly for homosexual marriage, but honestly the debate is pretty pointless. Twenty years down the road it'll be an accepted social norm. Change accumulates ...


Go ahead, go ahead.
That would make a nice present~

And on topic -
Although I don't hold the idea of marriage in high regard, I believe in equality.
So if a heterosexual couple can get married - there's no reason to deny that from a same-sex couple.
There is no argument anyone can make against that would make sense.


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silencecomes
Post #559987 - Reply to (#559960) by StarlightDreams
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9:03 pm, Jul 7 2012
Posts: 683


Quote from StarlightDreams
In the US, there is a fundamental part of our government: separation of church and state. The religious meaning of a marriage should not have any part in the legal meaning of marriage. This is why I'm in favor of same-sex marriage. Who is the government to tell them they can't because of a religion ...


However, separation of church and state really doesn't exist here in this hell hole we know as the USA.

I'm all for homosexual marriage, for fucks sake my mother is a lesbian!
I have a ton of homosexual friends, my best friend (since we were 3 years old) is a really... touchy person. Sits pretty much right on top of me when were on the couch playing games or watching something on TV or the internet. (There is way more but I'm gonna stop there.)

Every gay friend I have asks me when they first see him, "Is he gay"?

Unlike most people in the USA I am capable of not only thinking for myself but also capable of asking a question.
I'm not religious nor will I EVER be. Honestly I say religion needs to leave the USA because all of the retarded hypocritical ass wipes in governmental power. Not to mention all the retarded hypocritical ass wipes who not only support them but believe every thing they say for no reason at all. *cough* FOX political news *cough*

Now don't even get me started on abortion.

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jasonred79
Post #559988 - Reply to (#559987) by silencecomes
Member

9:22 pm, Jul 7 2012
Posts: 118


Quote from silencecomes
However, separation of church and state really doesn't exist here in this hell hole we know as the USA.



HEH.

...

LOL!!!

PLEASE, try visitting a Muslim nation... most of them, the law is not decided by the government or the people but by the PRIESTS...
And even in the more "secular" Muslim countries like Malaysia, they have some pretty nasty cases where Muslim Syariah law overrules "normal" law... like a famous case where after this soldier's death, some Muslims testified that he had converted from Hindu to Islam. Since his wife and children were still Hindus, by Muslim law, they could not inherit from him so the muslim courts seized all his cash and property. Also, by muslim law, a muslim testimony overrules and non-muslim testimonies, so his wife's protests that her husband was a Hindu went completely ignored.
After MASSIVE media coverage (which makes this case easy to find via google, in case you doubt me), they settled the matter giving her the inheritance based on charity or mercy or something, but... huh.

And you think the USA is a hellhole that doesn't separate church and state? ... heh. You live a pampered, sheltered life, dude...

silencecomes
Post #560014 - Reply to (#559988) by jasonred79
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2:37 am, Jul 8 2012
Posts: 683


Quote from jasonred79
PLEASE, try visitting a Muslim nation... most of them, the law is not decided by the government or the people but by the PRIESTS...
And even in the more "secular" Muslim countries like Malaysia, they have some pretty nasty cases where Muslim Syariah law overrules "n ...


What? You think I don't know what the hell the rest of the world goes through?
I was talking about the (un)United States of America. Not countries in Asia.

I know I'm lucky that I live in this corrupt and greedy nation and not out in a desert plain starving to death.
Honestly even though America is in awful shape its still better off than many places in Africa and Asia, I know that, and by the looks of your post you know that as well.

By the way, I would prefer you not saying I live a sheltered life. How exactly would you know what kind of shit I've gone through?

Do I know what you've gone through? No and I don't want to know because that is your business.

Judging by your previous posts, it seems as though you enjoy putting words into other peoples' mouths. I would suggest you not do that, unless your trying to make yourself sound like a fool.

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elementalblood
Post #560019
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Black Rabbit
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2:54 am, Jul 8 2012
Posts: 79


I'm a 19 year old soon to be university student from Canada. Same-sex marriage has been legal here for about 7 years now and I personally see absolutely no problem with it. The government has no business in the bedrooms of its citizens. It's between two consenting adults, why should we deny them the same rights everyone else enjoys?

Growing up I've known kids my age with two fathers, two mothers, single parents or those raised by grandparents. There's no difference. All a kid needs is to be loved and given the tools they need to succeed, why should it matter who provides these essentials? One of my best friends recently got engaged to her girlfriend of 3 years and they plan to adopt. I've known her for a long time and I think she and her fiance will make great parents ^_^

Recognized same-sex marriage is part of a paradigm shift to a more accepting society. It'll take a long while for it to be acceptable to everyone but it will happen eventually. I'm just happy I live in a country that accepts same-sex marriage and I hope the rest of the world will someday follow ^_^

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jasonred79
Post #560071 - Reply to (#560014) by silencecomes
Member

9:35 am, Jul 8 2012
Posts: 118


Quote from silencecomes
What? You think I don't know what the hell the rest of the world goes through?
I was talking about the (un)United States of America. Not countries in Asia.

I know I'm lucky that I live in this corrupt and greedy nation and not out in a desert plain starving to death.
Honestly even though America ...


Oh, ok... not sheltered life...

How about naive, ignorant, impossible to satisfy lifestyle? huh.

The USA is one of the best places to live in the world, and someone who thinks it's a hellhole or all these other nasty things you say about it is living in some dream world. Or maybe you're hoping to be one of those that colonize Mars or something?
Corrupt? hah. Look at the world corruption rankings. America is around 20th most honest country in the world. And there's a LOT of countries out there.
Greedy? You're living in a country with social welfare.
A lot of places in Africa and Asia are downright beastly, but even places like Europe are not spared. Look at Soviet Russia, Spain (50% youth unemployment rateconfused), Greece (same).
36% of the world's population lives in China and India... talk about "lack of freedom" and "corruption"... ha.
If you hate America so much, why don't you emigrate? To wherever you think is better?
On the reverse, America is FLOODED with people trying to imigrate in, whether seeking citizenship or illegal immigrants or whatever. And almost everyone who gets in is more or less overjoyed with their new life.


kaidiego
Post #560075
Member

10:05 am, Jul 8 2012
Posts: 106


I think they should have the right to civil marriage. There is absolute no argument against that. But then its upp to each curch if they want to allow homosexual marriage. If churches like that want to be a bunch of homophobic idiots, so let them be. They are just fallowing the word of "mighty god", and who would want to celebrate their marriage in that kind of church anyways.

I actually dont understand why homosexuals want to have a christian/muslim marriage. The Bible and the Koran have plenty of homophobic crap writen in it. Dont understand why woman would want to have a christian marriage either... the christian god is a sexist god. You dont have to read mutch of the damn thing to understand that its only a big manual of old and bad customs.

As a law student i can see why people would want to get a normal civil marriage, without all the religious bulshit. And of course I do understant the wish to celebrate the decision. Everybody should have the right to do that.


Last edited by kaidiego at 7:58 pm, Jul 8

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joeking14
Post #560081 - Reply to (#559969) by jasonred79
Member

10:49 am, Jul 8 2012
Posts: 1


Quote from jasonred79
You realise that is EXACTLY the same treatment that gays were getting from a lot of snotty gay bashers some time ago?
Or exactly the treatment that white black intermarraiges were getting back before the american civil war?


Yes it is, and there's a big difference, two people of the same gender or different racial backgrounds can still give consent, corpses and the vast majority if not all known non-human animals can't.

Quote from jasonred79
As for consent, er, well, if a woman starts doing naughty stuff with a male dog, and the dog mounts her and xxx xxx xxx, that's pretty much consent on the dogs part, right?


I suppose if you want to get techniqual, then yes it is consent in the sense they are ok with it but it's not meaningful consent, which is what most pople people mean when they use the word consent, in these situations at least. In order to give meaningful consent you need to understand the long term consuquences of your actions, in this cases msotly the chance of getting various diseases, which a dog can't do.

Scyfon
Post #560082 - Reply to (#560071) by jasonred79
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11:05 am, Jul 8 2012
Posts: 3380


Quote from jasonred79
Look at Soviet Russia
Sure, just let me get my time machine to travel back over a decade ago.
...and you actually called someone ignorant LOL


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Narufan1st
Post #560092
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12:34 pm, Jul 8 2012
Posts: 186


I'm a twelve year old Christian and I support homosexual marriage,well I like shounen ai/yaoi so why won't I like it.the only thing I'm against is s** without love.that's what's bad to me.I'm open minded so everything else is fine.I live in Africa and in my country if you are gay you are arrested.it's hard to believe right.but me ,my friends and family don't think it's right especially me cause I'm an activist.
But what some people are saying really irritates me you know.I'm religious and I'm proud of my religion and I don't care about others religion I respect people based on their character but I hate it when atheist's insult my religion.being a Christian is a way of life but not all Christians are the same.some are homophobic or racist and stuff like that but most are nice caring people who don't cae about stuff like that like me

Last edited by Narufan1st at 12:40 pm, Jul 8

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Nani0918
Post #560099
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Member

1:29 pm, Jul 8 2012
Posts: 18


Woaaa I think a lot of people get heated because of the relation between homosexual marriage and religion...

I have a friend who has been bi for quite a while. She ends up with this girl and they're getting married in a church. Was I surprised? Yes. But mainly because I didn't think she'd want to get married in a church. To her, marriage is not a matter of acceptance of society or of religion. It is a matter of two people want to be tied together, be committed, be legally responsible to each other. Having her marriage in church also means that in her heart, her God is benevolent and all loving, which is how it should be.

On a side note, an agnostic like me creates my own version of religion, but honestly, homosexual marriage really has nothing to do with religion...


none

yunikon
Post #560138 - Reply to (#559893) by jasonred79
Member

7:00 pm, Jul 8 2012
Posts: 7


Quote from jasonred79
I support gay marraige, but one question I have: when will it end?


I foresee in 20-30 years time the necrophiles and furries and zoophiles and other currently illegal "sexual deviants" will start demanding equal treatment as gays and insist that their sexualities and way of life is recogni ...


There are a couple of problems with this argument.

Firstly, it's a slipperly slope argument. A small change won't lead to immense moral infringements just as a drop in the stock market won't lead to the ruin of the economy in a few years. There's no evidence nor logic to support your argument.

Secondly, those types allowing homosexuals to marry is rooted in equality and those types of marriages are quite unequal.

I'll address each component seperately as well.

Necrophiles:
1. It's extremely, extremely, extremely unhygienic.
a) Once the body is dead, the skin begins to retract as well as other biological decay forms.
b) The body is underground and that is a wonderful place for bacteria and disease carrying vectors to thrive. Furthermore the body's immune system has stopped so it leaves the corpse more susceptible to transmitting all sorts of diseases.
2. It's an infringment on someone else, whether it be the person or their family.
a) They're dead so there's no way they can consent.
b) A dead body deserves respect.

Zoophiles:
Quote from jasonred79
As for consent, er, well, if a woman starts doing naughty stuff with a male dog, and the dog mounts her and xxx xxx xxx, that's pretty much consent on the dogs part, right?

Also, the Greeks evidently had nothing against interspecies sex, which is why there's so many myths of offspring from human+animal, god+human, god+animal, monster+human, etc etc. Gods that were worshipped at the time too, not gods that were looked down on. IIRC there were various roman emperors that had sex with animals too.


1. It is impossible to get consent in the vast majority of circumstances.
a) Animals go into heat during certain periods so just randomly doing something will be highly improbably the the animal reciprocates.
b) Regardless, it's not in any way a form of mutual consent. I don't know what kind of naughty stuff you mean but if a girl comes up to a guy and flirts with him and he "mounts her and xxx xxx xxx" that's a form a rape. It's consent on neither party because mutual acknowledgment of what happens does not occur. This can lead very much to animal abuse.
2. The Greeks/Romans existed a very long time ago during the Classical Age.
a) Those are myths and do not provide firm support for your case.

Pedophiles:
Quote from jasonred79
Also, let's not forget something that I and almost all of modern society finds criminal: pedophilia. BUT, as mentioned earlier, it used to be legal in the past, and it is STILL legal now in certain parts of the world. And the "civilised" part of the world pretty much says "we sort of frown upon this, but it's up to your own countries laws to do so, and we will respect your culture and laws and religion and turn a blind eye to it"


1. Pedophiles are interested in prepubescent children. This can lead to many problems.
a) These children are especially young and their minds are not fully developed. They do not understand the long term ramifications of many things and act on their own sudden emotions quite often. They are more susceptible to peer pressure. Thus, there can never be a definite consent. Even among teenagers, one partner can use forms of persuasion to get the "consent" of another. Those cases are still considered rape. These qualities usually make the relationship of one with a pedophile very unequal. Most of these relationships lead to child sexual abuse. The government only strives to do the best for its citizens. It is much better to prevent forms of child abuse.
b) Their bodies are not developed for such an act. It would be deeply painful and could hinder growth.
c) Someone who loves another for truly who they are and not because they are a developing child should be able to wait, no? He/she should give their love interest due respect by waiting for when they can truly give proper consent. smile

Thank you.




asmageddon
Post #560146
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8:40 pm, Jul 8 2012
Posts: 104


I think I'm falling in love with you, yunikon. You're brilliant. I want to be your friend.

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