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Quality vs. Speed (mangapirate case)

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Lnc411
Post #572506
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Member

8:31 am, Oct 5 2012
Posts: 339


I don't mind waiting for quality work if I know for sure it will come out. No offense to any scanlators. I know they have a real life and things come up, and I appreciate their time and efforts. However, as a reader, I need to soothe my cravings. Series like Green Boy just randomly delay and stopped being release. I'm still dying to continue Cavalier of the Abyss, but a chapter gets release once every full moon... It makes me kind of sad thinking I may never be able to finish such a great series. Do I condone what mangapirates does? Not entirely, but they satiate my cravings while the major scanlators deal with what they need to do.

amara12345
Post #572575 - Reply to (#572501) by Arigatomina
user avatar
GOTL
 Member

1:45 am, Oct 6 2012
Posts: 2


Quote from Arigatomina
As for long waits between updates, I would rather have a sketchily cleaned scanlation quickly than wait forever for a "perfect" scanlation with every little sfx redrawn. It should not take longer to clean a single page than it does to translate the entire chapter. If that's what is holding the scanlation up, then it might be time to lower your standards a little. On the other hand, if the raws are so bad you can't even make out the art, then you might as well just offer a text-only translation to tide the readers over until better raws are available. A nice middle ground is preferable.


OK, wait wait wait, I'm a MP cleaner, and a NOOB one, to be exact. How am I suppose to clean all the SFX when I don't even have the skill? I'm learning ok? Now what? You said our raw is so bad?....lol whut? WE ALL TOOK IT FROM NAVER. Ask everybody, ask Claud, ask youni, ask Grumpy, ask PoisonJoint, Ask Vendetta: HOW THEY GET THEIR RAW?
OK, so what? Do you ever clean a chapter, while reading in a half-ass online reader? Are you, sir, blind to see the difference between the two same thing? Hah! Don't troll around, wannabe troll. no laugh

Scyfon
Post #572576 - Reply to (#572575) by amara12345
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Mome Basher
Member

1:51 am, Oct 6 2012
Posts: 3374


Well someone's a little butthurt... ._.

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Badkarma
Post #572580
user avatar
An F to judge M!
Member

2:33 am, Oct 6 2012
Posts: 350


Even his avatar's butthurt. Look at its butt... hurting...

...

In other news, I kicked a horse the other day. It's true. And while it was 'for the first time in my life I'd ever done such a thing, strangely, I felt the need to post it in THIS topic.

Hmmmmm...? Oh, right.... The horse I kicked was already dead, by the way.

Decomposed, even.

Arguably a fossil.

Last edited by Badkarma at 3:14 am, Oct 6

tragicking
Post #572594 - Reply to (#572575) by amara12345
user avatar
Member

4:19 am, Oct 6 2012
Posts: 60


One troll disappears,other appears.
I dont know about us being blind,but suerly your eyesight is really poor. If you have really checked the images,you will notice the difference in resolution and image quality.
You know,there is a huge difference in quality done by different groups on same project,for eg.- One Piece and other big titles. You will notice the difference in image quality is too much even though raws are taken from same material. Check out the chapters before you complain again.
(Edit: I am not talking about translations)

Why? The answer is simple: The way they scanned the images and the way they edited(cropped,resized,etc..[excluding cleaning/ts] ) the images is completly different.Its a matter of skill and the time dedicated to it.

In your case,you dont even know how to properly stea...I mean ripp-off the images from Naver/Daum. Furthermore,unlike EGS,The Company and the other groups, you dont pay attention to properly edit the images to retain their quality.(I dont have enough time to teach you photoshop).
For you,editing just means to rub the paint eraser wherever text is visible. And in case,redrawing is required,you just put slightly larger font there in order to hide the shame.

Edit: I forgot to check the second part-
Half assed reader? Seriousley you really need to check your brain. You know,even mangafox would feel ashamed by seeing your reader. Poor speed, full of terrible ads.
Scanlators (the ones I follow atleast) and Batoto's reader is not only advanced in terms of functions offered,its fast enough and most of all,the ads are properly placed and do not occupy the whole screen.
You know,photoshop full version is available on net for free(pirated) and there are many good tutorials. Check them out before starting your trolling again.

Last edited by tragicking at 7:36 am, Oct 6

SoHappy
Post #572599 - Reply to (#572501) by Arigatomina
Member

6:43 am, Oct 6 2012
Posts: 2


Yay, I see English.

Anyhow, I would prefer speed over quality just because I'm not patient enough to wait. I'm not particularly picky over quality because I know the scanlators have worked hard on their releases "high quality" or not, so we shouldn't really be complaining.

On a different note, I do hope the ones posting here regularly are not the proofreaders because their arguments are painful to make sense of, and I mean for both EGS and MP...

tragicking
Post #572603 - Reply to (#572599) by SoHappy
user avatar
Member

7:39 am, Oct 6 2012
Posts: 60


Quote from SoHappy
Yay, I see English.

Anyhow, I would prefer speed over quality just because I'm not patient enough to wait. I'm not particularly picky over quality because I know the scanlators have worked hard on their releases "high quality" or not, so we shouldn't really be complaining.

On a different note, I do hope the ones posting here regularly are not the proofreaders because their arguments are painful to make sense of, and I mean for both EGS and MP...

I am very well aware,that my english sucks,but I cant believe its "painful" for you to understand my posts. My deepest apologies for making you suffer.
Just as I mentioned in my previous posts,my (and others) arguments are based on facts. As you pointed out,my english sucks and even before you mentioned it,I consulted my friend to review their translations, a few weeks ago... and his review was the base of my argument, for their grammar part. Also,other MU members who are good in english pointed out that,so the probability of my argument being pointless is very less. So I hope being a proofreader is not a requirement to judge this.
Their image quality sucks: Firstly,if you read popular series (done by many groups),you will notice that image quality greatly differs from each other even though their is only one source for raws. The reason is simple - The difference lies on how they scan and then how they edit the scanned image.. Same applies for MP,they dont know how to properly rip-off images from Naver/Daum. Furthermore,their defination of editing only exists to using paint cleaning brush wherever the text is visible,and in case,some redrawing (mostly for sfx) is required,they use slightly larger fonts to fill the gap for a redraw. While HQ groups,not only clean, redraw and typsett properly,they dedicate some extra time to increase the overall quality of image(like I said-croping/resizing/etc...check a good tutorial). This creates the difference,in case you didnt noticed it and you are blind like the cleaner of MP.
MP's reader sucks: Its too slow not to mention they dont offer onestrip format and also the ads occupy the whole screen. Even Mangafox/Mangareader would feel ashamed.
Donations:
Why? They are only doing webcomics,which are available for free as long as I can remember. Servers? Then what about the money from all those ads which occupy the whole reader and site(except forums,if I remembere correctly)? I dont know if you are dumb or are trying to act so,those ads are MORE than enough to pay for their servers/domain charge. You could say they are taking the whole donations in their pockets and dont forget the remaining ad-revenue.

Extra Point: (Because you asked for it)-
Patient enough? Seriousley just like staff from MP(& some other fools),you really need to consult a doctor. Maximum of the series done by them were already being scanlated by others in a very short amount of time (Noblesse: 5-10 hrs. TOG: 3-4 days and likewise) and it goes without saying,they were scanlated in much better quality. Thankfully,original groups didnt gave up on those projects and we are still able to enjoy those high quality scanlations.

After seeing the above points,I really wonder what you mean by "worked hard" and your other statements.
Man,I am really tired of writing same things again and again....Maybe,because I am not clear enough.
Anyways,thank you for reading my terrible post and also, I welcome you to MangaUpdates!

Edit:@SoHappy-
I am not angry wink . Believe me,I am not! I was just placing my comments on your opinions and trying to be as clear as possible on this matter.

Edit 2: @SoHappy:
Dont worry about that. Many people forget their own names and you have just forgot your nick its really understandable. roll I wonder. I didnt meant something like~ you being a staff from MP who first try to support them without arousing suspicission by trying to sound reasonable and then telling you dont even read anything from both groups or something like that. Believe me,it was a warm welcome,more or less. smile wink grin

Last edited by tragicking at 6:38 pm, Oct 6

SoHappy
Post #572617 - Reply to (#572603) by tragicking
Member

12:37 pm, Oct 6 2012
Posts: 2


I don't remember pointing and fingers at particular people but just the group arguing as a whole (you never know you might not have been in that group). You at least, are quick to anger...

Although it does have "mangapirate case" in brackets I was talking about manga in general, I don't read manga from either EGS nor Mangapirates. I was merely pointing out how unnecessarily convoluted each side's arguments were before giving my opinion on how I like manga in general.

Edit so I don't go off topic in a new post: I forgot to mention I'm not new here, I did just register to post here but that's because I haven't used my old account for so long I forgot the password and username...

Last edited by SoHappy at 1:28 pm, Oct 6

Dawn_
Post #572649
Member

5:56 pm, Oct 6 2012
Posts: 7


Well Sohappy, arigatomina if you're pointing at me or dod (we're both from EGS).

None of us are Proofreaders, nor are we english native speaker. You'll excuse us then for our poor english.

As for the MP cleaner coming here, i actually find him quite brave coming here and acknowledge that he is a noob and lack skill (still learning). It takes guts to do that (acknowledge your own weakness, people like that are the one that with time become good).

Even if i admit, you shouldn't respond so harshly.

Arigatomina
Post #572685 - Reply to (#572504) by podlizurko
Member

9:38 pm, Oct 6 2012
Posts: 32


Quote from podlizurko
It does take longer to clean a chapter of webtoon than translating it.

I don't doubt that. But even if every bit of text is on top of art that has to be redrawn, in color just to make it more complicated, it should still not take longer to do one page than it does to translate the entire chapter. I'm talking about one page, cleaning a single page. When you have 30 pages to do and it takes that long to do one page of it, you might as well give it to someone faster. I know, that sounds mean, and I'm sorry. I have known scanlation groups that had their releases delayed for months because they couldn't find anyone capable of redrawing a single sound effect that could easily have just been left in with a text translation in the margin. There is such a thing as trying to be too perfect.

Quote from amara12345
I'm a MP cleaner, and a NOOB one, to be exact. How am I suppose to clean all the SFX when I don't even have the skill? I'm learning ok?

I'm suggesting people skip the sound effects they can't clean and put a little translation of that sfx in the margin instead. If you can't clean it, don't. It's better to leave it alone and offer the translation on the side than to butcher the art trying to cover up the fact that you can't clean it. That's my opinion of how complicated sfx should be handled by scanlators in general.

I don't know you or your group and wasn't talking about anyone in particular. But if you want some personal advice, always try to redraw the sfx. Then, if your finished product looks like crap, put the original sound effect back and try again next time. Eventually you'll reach a point where you can redraw just about anything and have it look fine.

Quote from Dawn_
Well Sohappy, arigatomina if you're pointing at me or dod (we're both from EGS).
None of us are Proofreaders, nor are we english native speaker. You'll excuse us then for our poor english.

My attempts to write in a second language are painful, so kudos to you for being able to write in english as well as you do. There are some supposedly native English writers in this thread whose english is much worse than yours. My complaint was about the groups that have no proofreader, or whose proofreaders don't have good english. A lot of them have native Japanese/Korean/Chinese translators, which is great, but their english is usually...iffy at best. I think they need to have a native English translator in the group as well, preferably one with a high school or higher reading level.

podlizurko
Post #572693
user avatar
Member

10:33 pm, Oct 6 2012
Posts: 56


It shouldn't but it still does take some time more than 1 hour to make a perfect redraw that can't be distinguished from the original art. And simply letting someone do it faster while sacrificing quality isnt an option one should chose.

amara12345
Post #572705 - Reply to (#572693) by podlizurko
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GOTL
 Member

12:00 am, Oct 7 2012
Posts: 2


If you don't like speed stuff, then wait and read the so called "official release" of yours.
If you hate MP, then don't read our stuff.
If you like EGS or TC, just stay there and wait for them to give you some thing that they also do the same thing like us: Pirate webtoon.
If you believe there is an official release translated chapter ONLINE: OK, good job, you are supporting piracy, like us. biggrin

strixflash
Post #572708 - Reply to (#572705) by amara12345
user avatar
Noblesse Forever!
Member

12:07 am, Oct 7 2012
Posts: 989


Quote from amara12345
If you don't like speed stuff, then wait and read the so called "official release" of yours.
If you hate MP, then don't read our stuff.
If you like EGS or TC, just stay there and wait for them to give you some thing that they also do the same thing like us: Pirate webtoon.
If you believe the ...

Changing the topic,eh? This is what I call real trolling..... eek

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Dawn_
Post #572920
Member

12:17 pm, Oct 8 2012
Posts: 7


Ah, sorry arigatomina, i thought it was directed to us..
And thanks for the compliment:3

Amara, hmm there is no "official" release. We (EGS), The Company, Webtoon Live, Vendetta-scans and Japanzai (i think i have all the group your doing release..here..maybe one or two left..) aren't bothered by you.

We are discussing quality over speed even more when the quality gap is so huge..while the difference in speed..is some hours or 1 or 2 days at most (which isn't a lot, taking account that for example, we are handling a lot of project..and not only webtoon).

Because cleaning webtoon isn't what i call cleaning (and you guys aren't even doing it properly i saw a blue plane..last week on your release of Noblesse while you tried cleaning an sfx.and also failed to hide it by typesetting..). Cleaning on W/B manga is a whole different matter.

youni89
Post #572949
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Member

3:32 pm, Oct 8 2012
Posts: 25


come on guys dont get off topic. smile

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