PLEASE READ ALL OF THIS AND THE FOLLOWING POSTS BEFORE POSTING

Before I start, let me make clear that I am not looking for people to argue with, and by the nature of the question, I plan to eliminate as much room for argument as possible. The answers I'm looking for are ones that answer the question fully and directly without saying why x belief is wrong or why so-and-such is an idiot for thinking otherwise.

To Atheists (more specifically to atheists who believe in some sense of right and wrong/good and bad/etc.) To all others, this question does NOT apply. Post somewhere else!

The question is a layered one. How do you determine what is right and wrong? What does it mean for something to be right/wrong? What is good? What is bad? How do you know?

Please do not answer all these questions in a single post. I would like room to ask about specifics, and reading reeealy long posts is something I hate very much.

I am making this thread for the sake of my own education. Be ready to answer questions about your posts as I will be asking them.

EDIT: As my questions are being answered, new questions arise from those answers. Be prepared to answer questions like "what is love," "why should one desire to live," and "Does emotion matter." Though you may not be asked these questions specifically depending on your replies, you may be asked questions of a similar nature. Also, please read the previous posts and the questions I have asked about them. This will give you context for what type of thread this is (some don't seem to quite understand).

EDIT The question has changed. Please refer to page 5.

P.S. This thread can be as benificial to you as it can be to me. If you haven't already, this could be a great place to sort out your thoughts about life more fully and to understand the thoughts of others.

P.P.S. I have retired from this thread. The specifics lie at the bottom of page 6.

Last edited by zimzimbadabim at 6:48 pm, Aug 19 2012

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i cant speak for all atheists, but i dont believe in good and bad. There's simply: "social"and "anti-social".

I know what is social and what anti-social though reason: If you kill somebody, you make society weaker, therefore it is bad. Science helps too, economics in particular.

There is no absolute right and wrong.

The social norms and humane behaviors are natural for every human (bar the pathological cases) and have arisen via evolution because, well, it's not really beneficial for you to kill your children or make enemies out of everyone.

Besides, think about it - most believers aren't that religious, for many of them religion is just something that is there - do you think they would be that much different if they were atheists?

You may think your sense of righteousness comes from religion, but that isn't true. Bible said that you should stone women who cheat. Would you do it? I assume you wouldn't. And if it didn't tell you to not kill other people, would you just go around murdering others?

Morality doesn't come from religion. It's religious commandments and rules that are based on morality(and a number of other things) which is mostly based on "built-in" behavior and society - which is created by said behavior.

Well there's always the law. It is indeed based on the natural law and human dignity, one kind of belief if you want to be precise, but it is what keeps the most of us not going out of the house and killing everyone we meet on the way.

As for what is good or what is bad, it depends on the person himself/ herself. The many influential factors may be upbringings, characters or mentality. For a selfish person, it is fine for that one to take the best part without even asking or considering. For someone who has mental illness or someone who has just found out death is near, who knows what they can do.

I try to make it short ( btw, so not my style when it comes to things like this).

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Man is more ape than many of the apes.

I'm right you are wrong, I think that boil down in that. It's all about point of view. What is wrong to you can be right to me, and vice versa. And becausa of that, the world is grey not black and white.

Thanks for the replies! This is looking pretty good so far.

To Drazer, I am only looking for personal opinions. I think it would be stupid and disrespectful for one atheist to speak for the personal opinions of all atheists. How do you define society. What is a strong society?

To assmageddon, you got a bit critical in your post. Please be kind. Also, I'm not seeing much question answering. I see alot of what you DON'T think, which is the opposite of what I asked.
P.S. Please don't address my beliefs until you know what they are.

To giinko, what is the natural law? Human dignity? What is good or bad for YOU? Also, you can give longer replies just don't fill up your entire computer screen.


I forgot to mention, but I am looking for personal views. If you feel like that is an invasion of intellectual privacy, you don't have to answer.


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I'm not an atheist, but I discussed this subject once with my friend who is, and that's what she said:

She said she didn't need God to tell her what's good and what's bad, she simply relied on her intuition. And the intuition comes from the way she was brought up. Generally, she tries not to harm other people with what she does. So I guess "bad" means "something that causes harm to other people".

She didn't specify what "good" was according to her. Perhaps anything that is not bad? But this is just my speculation.

I tried to make this as short and simple as possible.

Not sure if I count as an atheist. Since atheist think god doesn't exist(correct me if I'm wrong) and I simply don't care whatever one exists or not.

Good and bad are simply terms that we humans thought up and as asmageddon said they aren't absolute.
On a large scale I define good and bad based on the social norms and laws. On a more personal scale I look at it in a manner of self-interest. If it's beneficial to me it's good if not it's bad. And the actual aplicational definition of good and bad, right and wrong would be somewhere between the large and personal scale.(Hope people can understand what I mean since I can't phrase this well)

Morals.

Pretty much everyone has their own idea of what's right and wrong, regardless of whether or not they belong to a specific religion. What those ideas are differ from person to person, and the specific reason why they feel something is right or wrong can differ too.

Personally, if I ever have to wonder if something I'm doing is right or not, I think about whether what I'm doing is hurting anyone else, or if it might have a negative impact on anyone besides myself. If it would hurt someone else, I don't do it. That's pretty much the simplest way to put it.

rubiopaloosa: What exactly is your point of view?

Hanae: No offense, but since you are not atheist I prefer you not answer.

Reiten: You would probably be classified as an apathetic. I didn't understand alot of what you wrote, but I understood the part about self-interest. What does it mean for something to be benificial to you?


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Before I say anything, let me say that it's most likely that nothing anyone ever did/will do matters.

About myself:


Senses of right and wrong vary from person to person, changing due to both external and internal factors. Everything depends. There are no absolute answers to abstract questions such as this. For example, sometimes I'm a very kind and helpful person; and other times, I'm a total asshole. That could mean my views of right and wrong change based on mood, etc.; it could also mean that said factors can cause me to disregard my views of right and wrong.

I dislike talking about morals, because everyone is always both right and wrong. In the popular sense, people define morals: so, if someone has a certain view, it's right. But other people have different views. However, even though they're all technically correct, that doesn't really make any sense; therefore, everyone is also wrong.

Everything is opinion. It's difficult or impossible to prove most views either correct or incorrect. Therefore: who cares? Why bring a pointless discussion to the no-fucks-given table of the internets?

Edit: formatting and a little blurb about myself.

Last edited by Syphilis at 1:18 pm, Aug 10 2012

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"People don't change, they just give in."<BR><!--url_type_2--><a href='http://webtoons.com/en/fantasy/kubera/list?title_no=83' target='_blank'><u>Kubera is the best.</u></a><!--url_type_2_end--><BR>同人音楽 (doujin music)<BR><!--img--><img src='http://i.imgur.com/CkHPJMM.gif' border='0' alt='Laila Hemawati'><!--img_end-->

is rather obvious, the golden rule
do not do to others what you would not want to be done to yourself

our for some strange reason our culture ended believing that academics or intelligence leads to robot people without feelings that only follows logic
but the truth is the oposite because pure logic leads right to the golden rule, and the ability to abstract things, the base for any logical thinking, is the same thing thing that would let you put yourself into another person place

What do you mean by "morals?"

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Well, I can only assure you that in terms of meaning I repeated exactly what my atheist friend said.

Syphilis, according to you, your post doesn't matter, so I will respectfully ignore it.

Khh, how do you know what it is that you want/don't want? Is it something you sense or something you decide?

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