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Should manga aggregator sites be allowed to use mangaupdates for their means of advertising?

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Poll
Should manga aggregator sites be allowed to use mangaupdates for their means of advertising?
No, definitely not!
Yes, why not?
I don't care
Votes: 146

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ForteAtrox
Post #570157
user avatar
Pew pew
Member

4:24 am, Sep 16 2012
Posts: 828


Whoaaa, whoaa Claudia. You need to calm down and not just go around jumping to conclusions, leave my groups name (shiro nabi) out of this. Only reason the sites down is 'cause the host for my site gets a bit strange sometimes.

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Claudia
Post #570272
user avatar
Member

11:00 pm, Sep 16 2012
Posts: 64


Okay ForteAtrox one of the mysteries is solved then ~



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egscans.org
youni89
Post #570427
user avatar
Member

3:09 am, Sep 18 2012
Posts: 25


Groups that scanlate their own chapters will have them updated on MU... as simple as that. Doesn't matter if they're an 'aggregate' site or a small scanlator group.

cmertb
Post #570522 - Reply to (#569526) by wolfinthesheep
user avatar
Member

12:09 am, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 161


Quote from wolfinthesheep
Your unspoken rule is non-existent. It gets broken every single day, by plenty of groups that only care about getting credit for the popular series, or by groups that just want to scanlate the stuff they care about.

Murders happen every day, therefore there's no rule that one mustn't murder people, right?

If you want to camouflage your blatant self-interest of a spoiled child as some kind of a general principle, it's your problem. But surely you don't have to rape logic and common sense in the process?

On the topic itself... Claudia, why are you seeking sympathy and understanding from leechers? I think they've made it clear by now that you don't matter and that what they expect from you is that you shut up and provide them with what they want. The only rules they'd agree to are the ones that benefit the leechers, not the ones that benefit the scanlators.

Having said that, why not let aggregators advertise here? They're paying for it, right? I doubt there are many leechers who discover aggregators after MU. People who use MU choose to use MU. Most leechers don't know about MU and already use aggregators. So imo advertising here is a waste of money for them. So let them do it.

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rozzzly
Post #570528
Member

12:34 am, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 1


For everyone that doesn't know me, I'm rozzzly the guy who made the MangaPirate site. I usually don't get involved in youni's side of the operation, but I found this thread just too laughable to not pitch my two cents in. First off I think the thread should be renamed to "Should Manga Updates be Allowed to Link to Sites that Claudia Doesn't Like?" or perhaps just "Anti-MangaPirate Circle Jerk". This thread is yet another pathetic attack on MangaPirate. This time Claudia tried to guise it as an anti-aggregate thread although it's clearly not that.

Claudia's been careful not to mention our name in this thread so that she'd have some plausible deniability against any backlash. However make no mistake as to her intentions. This is a thread she posted when we just started out. Here she explicitly names us, and makes the exact same accusation she does in this thread.

Quote from Claudia
That group which is not a group but 1 person running a manga reader site.

If you allow that soon mangafox and manareader will be doing the same!

Source: http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=36049&p age=1#post562315

I suppose we could technically be called an "aggregate site", however we're more than that. We're also a scanlation group, and therefor are allowed to post our releases to Manga Updates just like any other group. Manga Updates staff told her this the last time she posted the thread.

Quote from lambchopsil
Only because they scanlated it themselves, as far as we can tell

Source: http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=36049&p age=1#post562334

I suppose she wasn't content with the staff's decision... or maybe she wanted another excuse to defame us. I find the latter much more plausible seeing as she's repeatedly done so in the past. Claudia has consistently been the aggressor in this little "feud" of ours. Need proof? I can supply a litany of links where shes attacked us. Most of the claims baseless and illogical. Claudia, you always give me a good laugh. Every time you opens your mouth to make some accusation, I open mine to laugh.

Here's some of Claudia's highlights:
Quote from Claudia
Oh and if you are wondering who is behind mangapirate.net: They are also currently known as manga burn aka mangainn aka mangachrome aka mangapanda (Same thing) which they have a collaboration (more like owned by mangareader.net His role is to pay them to scanlate the manga they work with so his site gets them 1st. The reason they are trying to conceal that they have a collaboration is because if word gets out, the other manga viewer sites wont host their releases or at least remove their credits and host them.

Source: http://forum.egscans.com/showthread.php/4547-News-26-July-(M P-case)

Anyone with a lick of sense can see that this attempt to decry MangaPirate is an utter falsehood. The line "...pay them to scanlate the manga they work with so his site gets them 1st" is the most illogical. Our releases do not go up on aggregate sites first, they're released only on our site. Eventually the aggregates see the release and rip from us or from one another. Furthermore, why would mangareader.net or it's direct competitors not post the content to their site? Every time someone reads a chapter on our site not only do mangareader/whoever lose that view, they also lose all the views they could potentially get from links for "suggested manga", etc. Finally, the line about, "trying to conceal that they have a collaboration is because if word gets out, the other manga viewer sites wont host their releases" is utter bullshit. We HATE mangareader and the like because they steal our views. If letting the world know that we were in some secret alliance with them would stop them from ripping from us then I would currently be yelling, "MANGAPIRATE IS SECRETLY RUN BY MANGAREADER" off the top of a building somewhere. Unfortunately, it wouldn't change a thing because A) we don't have some secretly alliance B) large aggregate sites don't give a shit.

That's one bogus claim down, lets see what else you've said:
Quote from Claudia
lol they changed their email address for donations in their releases after this post was made to hide their shame muahahha It can still be found in one of their early releases though XD And they also changed their website appearance not to look like EGS haha

Source: http://forum.egscans.com/showthread.php/4547-News-26-July-(M P-case)

No Claudia, we changed our site because it did look like shit. We knew it, it was only a placeholder until we got the new site. Don't be so full of yourself; the change had nothing to do with you. The new site was in production two weeks before you even posted that topic. As far as the email on the donation, we changed it from youni's private email to a one specifically for MangaPirate. This was in no way an attempt to hide anything. To prove that I'll post the old email: issacyoun@gmail.com The fact that you're trying to poke fun over the change of an email just further proves how desperately you are. It's quite sad.

Quote from Claudia
By the way Youni or rozzly or whatever your name is ~ Please stop hosting OUR releases in your site.

Source: http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?page=11&tid =36302#566434

Nah I think we'll continue to keep on doing just what we've been doing. U mad? sue us haha

Also there are three z's in my name.

Quote from Claudia
Oh, Easy Going Scans and several others... Let's copy them to the core and steal their projects.

Source: http://forum.egscans.com/showthread.php/4547-News-26-July-(M P-case)

Something youni and I haven been repeatedly saying, yet you guys clearly don't get is that they are not "your" projects. They don't belong to you, nor to us for that matter. Easy Going Scans (or any other group) has absolutly no claim to them. We're free to do whatever the hell we want. Grow up and quit whining.

I could probably find more, but this post is getting pretty long so let me wrap it up here. I'm tired of all this bullshit between us and egs, so is youni. The mods of Manga Updates have already said they don't like these posts. Claudia I'm going to ask you stop posting here. If you need to vent about how terrible we are, do it on your own site. Seeing as how you ban anyone who posts on your site even sympathizing with us, it'll be in impossible for our two communities to meet. I've gone ahead created a designated thread on our forum just for this purpose. I promise we wont't ban you or any of your friends for posting there, post whatever the hell you want. We don't give a shit. I just want to relive MangaUpdates of the burden of all this turmoil. It's not their problem; this is between MangaPirate and EasyGoing Scans. So Claudia, stop trying to drag them into it.

~rozzzly

Last edited by rozzzly at 5:19 am, Sep 19

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Kaitentsuki
Post #570530
user avatar
Member

12:45 am, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 855


Just because people believe this topic has a hidden agenda of defaming mangapirate doesnt mean you should get off topic, even if it is true, so lets be civil and talk about the topic at hand shall we.
I believe they shouldn't if it is only by means of advertising and scanned with minimal effort with bad translation where nothing is readable etc etc.

Scayth
Post #570545
Member

2:34 am, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 1


People who are posting conditions are clearly not thinking this through. How can MangaUpdates stay neutral and yet determine what an "aggregator who is using MangaUpdates for means of advertising" is? How can MangaUpdates determine what "scanned with minimal effort with bad translation" is? How can such subjectivity be applied fairly to all those who are contributing? If a contributor appears to be releasing scanlations done by itself, as an entity, how can MangaUpdates objectively deem it should not appear in its database? And yet, even if said contributor "stole" and re-released stolen releases, but not all of the time, and continued to release ones completed by itself, as an entity, how is MangaUpdates supposed to police this? You expect them to sacrifice all that manpower to compare all possible releases of the same series to each other for potential "copying" or "stealing"?

Sure, many people seem to be agitated when it comes to "morals" or "ethics". But, please think of execution for the site's sake, at least confused

JustPassingBy
Post #570563 - Reply to (#570545) by Scayth
Member

6:29 am, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 54


Quote from Scayth
People who are posting conditions are clearly not thinking this through. How can MangaUpdates stay neutral and yet determine what an "aggregator who is using MangaUpdates for means of advertising" is? How can MangaUpdates determine what "scanned with minimal effort with bad translation&q ...


Well, while quality indeed cannot be absolutely defined, aggregator sites are basically sites which gathers and hosts releases from multiple groups. And whenever they report a release, they bascially advertise their site, just like any other scanlation group.

As for the question, I think mangaupdates should list them. As I use this sites primarily for its relatively complete database of all series and current releases, and it would suck if this site starts to filter out releases from certain groups like they did with mangapanda.

a_v
Post #570599 - Reply to (#569703) by Claudia
user avatar
Official Pooh Bear
Member

2:12 pm, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 30


Quote
If they go by the rules or not that is their problem.


Exactly what rules would these be? Laws? Most likely not (as they vary by geographic region)... Usual patterns? Just that, patterns....

As for the "huge difference"...
Quote
--- Scanlators only hosts in their site series that they are working with.
--- Manga reader sites hosts everything (or at least whatever they can get their hands on).


Also an arbitrary distinction, or at least an over generalization. I have seen groups that have done both at one time or another, and more often than not they did both at once...

So as for "facts speaking for themselves", cherry picking for facts is no better than making stuff up in the first place.

Findy
Post #570604
Member

3:39 pm, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 127


please dont involve manga updates in anykind of dispute between site/scanlator etc
i would hate it to see beautiful site that neutral and exist in VERY long time get screw up by some stupid spite

TheLord
Post #570615
Member

4:44 pm, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 1


I have been using Manga Updates for more than a year but never bother to create an account as there was no need for it seeing MU provides services to everyone.But seeing this thread really persuade me to create an account here.
Ms. Claudia and The Company~You dont have a damn right to ask for such a conditon on MU. A release is a release no matter who do.Please dont think MU as your playground where your every single condition would be accepted. You are disappointed on MU? If you are,please leave then. No one is forcing you.
For those who said MangaPirate doesnt have quality: Then dont bother to read there.

MangaPirates is earning money? Then what about you~The Company or self proclaimed scanlator saviour "Batoto? The Company made a project sucess among non-Koreans?
Below is what I have written(edited version) on MangaPirates thread with some reference from the user "tragicking" of MangaUpdates.
Quote
The Company,especially the self proclaimed Loki and their cowfather Grumpy always says ~they made a project success among masses. Are you kidding me? Are you trying to say if you hadnt picked TOG or Kubera no one would have known about them? You Shitbags!
TOG is already famous on Naver and if you hadnt started it someone else would have started it.Its like telling that no one would pick Bleach if some group left it. Good works will always be scanned. Dont be such dickheads.
Batoto is hosting thousands of series in which the groups involved are dead. So who is earning the whole profit?
Surely those million views on comics done by inactive group isnt only used for server charges. I really wonder how much their server costs that even those thousands of dollars earned isnt enough to pay for it? There is no need for me to tell how many visitors Batoto has and how many series(or maximum of chapters in a single series) done by an inactive group. Batoto is fooling thousands by helping hundreds.
I wont say Batoto is not helping scanlators but surely it is earning a HUGE amount for itself while fooling readers who believes Batoto isnt even able to fully pay for servers.

If you just want to defame MP then please use the special section MP made for you. Like rozzzly said MP wont block you or close the topic like Batoto or EGS.
Please let MU be a neutral site like its meant to be.

podlizurko
Post #570621
user avatar
Member

6:14 pm, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 56


First of all i will mention that The Company had nothing to do with this thread or me. I have never said once in my lifetime that i have problems with groups serving as aggregators as well , as long as they never claim releases that were never done by them and update them as such here (and this is something mangapirate did on several occasions , that was reported and dealt with as it should; though the fact remains that it was done multiple times at different dates).

Now for the rest of the accusations which are pretty much all false.

http://www.thcmpny.com/
http://www.thcmpny.com/donation/

No ads , no donations.

http://www.mangapirate.net/
http://mangapirate.net/donate

Ads , donations.

You draw your own conclusion who earns more money as scanlator.Why would they need 100$ per month to stay afloat when they already have 2 ads per every single page + with their so called raise in popularity should provide them more than enough unique visitors for the adshare companies to give them enough money to pay for servers to hold their tiny spec of database they call online reader.


True , other groups might have picked those projects and made them as popular as they are , but the fact is they didnt , so The Company and EGS made them the money making machines that Mangapirate is so nice to use to their own advantage. So dont speak of what it could have been , but of what it is.

Yes , batoto hosts many series that were done by now inactive groups , but no we dont make thousands ,surely it might seem that way from someone that makes money only from google adsense point of view , but the other 20% of the adshare companies(thats it , google adsense makes up to 80% of the whole of adsharing) dont even give 1/10th of what google might give you for the same amount of service. Those are simple facts that you can crosscheck of just 1 minute of browsing , there is no need to accuse anyone of being liar over it. So dont call someone liar when you simply fail to check your facts to know the truth.

Batoto's popularity is falling down = not true. Check your facts again , batoto has been growing a bit by bit ever since google cut us off.

Quote from "youni"
That's why I hate Batoto, I never bought their lies. And after that adsense gaffe they had where they ruined the lives of countless scanlators they conveniently then forgot about giving all the ad profit to the scanlators, and instead kept it all for themselves saying that now they dont get paid as much and their server costs are expensive. I call bs on that. Batoto is the same as Mangafox, maybe even worse because they lie to all the scanlators while pocketing all the money for themselves.


it wasnt a gaffe on our part , it was bomb clicking from several new members that joined after a thread was made on 4chan about batoto,mangafox and other online readers. For some reason only batoto was the one that was attacked in this way(and lets not forget the numerous ddos case we suffered because of those threads after that too , something that failed to hit the other online readers again).And no we didnt conveniently forget to give ad profit to anyone , if you even cared to learn how the our program worked you would have known that we had no control over the accounts of the group , we simply made it possible that when a release with the group mentioned is posted , their adds appear. We were greatly hit by this attack as well , as that month's server costs were not paid and with the account frozen with no access to the money Grumpy had to pay of his own pocket in order for batoto to keep on living.And yes they are that expensive , unlike mangafox and co. batoto doesnt compress any images so larger hosting is required for our library to be open to anyone at anytime.

Quote from "rozzzly"
Well seeing as they still have adsense on their site and don't pay scanlators, I'd say gaffe is a misnomer. I think the term "ruse to fool scanlators" is more appropriate.

We have adds , but from other adshare companies , only googles is named adsense program if i'm not mistaken.But as someone as new , as you to the community i guess the mistake is possible to be made , but not excusable.



Since you also mentioned Mangapirate being blocked at Batoto , i will ask do you know the reason why this was done? Since i'm such a nice guy i will await response before giving you the truth , you might have actually been mislead to think wrongly , or simply didnt bother to search for the truth.

Yes Batoto is scanlator friendly and will always will stay that way , never has been a scanlator request refused and it never will(something that has been done already in the short history of MP).Yes Grumpy is the founder and he is such an amazing person , you can find less than 10 like him in the whole of scanlation community , so dont compare him to some kids that just want to make money fast and have nothing but spite for the rest of the community.I'm not a self proclaimed Loki, i was probably one long before you were planned or came out by accident.

youni89
Post #570632
user avatar
Member

7:39 pm, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 25


wow guys, can we please stay on topic? It's fine for aggregates like Batoto, mangafox, or mangaburn to advertise on MU as long as they produce their own chapters.

Kaitentsuki
Post #570633 - Reply to (#570632) by youni89
user avatar
Member

7:44 pm, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 855


I agree with youni for once, this is not a topic about mangapirate and the work they do etc, and batoto and all the other things that have come up in this thread, keep it on topic really.

wolfinthesheep
Post #570636 - Reply to (#570522) by cmertb
Member

8:14 pm, Sep 19 2012
Posts: 176


Quote from cmertb
Murders happen every day, therefore there's no rule that one mustn't murder people, right?

If you want to camouflage your blatant self-interest of a spoiled child as some kind of a general principle, it's your problem. But surely you don't have to rape logic and common sense in the process?

What the fuck?

An unspoken rule is exactly what it says on the tin: A rule that is not stated anywhere, but is followed in the complicit understanding that it exists. If it's not followed, then by sheer definition it does not exist as a rule.

Murder is written in law and enforced by law. Stealing scanlation projects is written nowhere, enforced by no one, and is committed by groups whenever they want to.


And by the way, I don't give a fuck about EGScans or MangaPirates, because I don't read Manwha.

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