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Why Mangafox is evil and why you shouldn't read on it.

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chueisha
Post #599115 - Reply to (#599109) by -shiratori-
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Pomegranate
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10:26 pm, May 14 2013
Posts: 2595


Quote from -shiratori-
And what do you do with groups who don't host their manga (anymore)?


Assuming you're replying to my post. I don't completely agree with Batoto's way of doing things. If for some very odd reason, I am forced to read online rather than download, and scanlators don't host them online (understandable, a lot don't), it would be Batoto > MF.

Otherwise, nah.

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Post #599118 - Reply to (#599112) by secretdesires
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10:39 pm, May 14 2013
Posts: 392


Quote from secretdesires
Thanks, now we all know you're an immoral asshat. By you're logic if someone enjoys murder it would absolutely ok for them to murder you.


Unnecessary and quite inaccurate. Murder is a crime, a deliberate act of ending another persons life due to whatever reason. MF is operating on the same grey area where most scanslation already resides, seeing as it can be interpreted as an act of piracy. Note that I don't personally see it quite as such, but the comparison is often made, especially at the corporation / copyright holder -level.

Personally I don't like MF's way of doing things, but it is not a purely negative entity as such. I tend to avoid it, but I do read stuff there now and then and I sure as hell don't feel quilty about it.

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Arigatomina
Post #599122 - Reply to (#599110) by giinko
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11:05 pm, May 14 2013
Posts: 32


Quote from giinko
Furthermore it's unlikely they will change since the alternatives of downloading, visiting dozens different scanlators's homepages or waiting rather long for the pictures to load seem to be quite on the disadvantaged side to me.

As a scanlator who sees tons of fans who can't even click a button without having their hand held, I agree completely. The majority of readers are entitled lumps who expect things spoon-fed to them, so they can't function at all without sites like mangafox to shovel it down their gaping maws. The more groups that quit, the more those lumps will have to learn to feed themselves. It would be a good lesson for them to learn. Meanwhile the scanlators can find something more profitable to do with their time. It's sad that so many people put years of work in for nothing but disdain. At the very least they should go underground to make it harder for them to be used and abused. I'd love to see how the lumps react when they have to put forth effort to get the scanlations they want or go hungry. I think if scanlators stopped pandering to these 'fans' and started cutting them off, the hobby might have a chance to recover. As it is, scanlation groups are a dime a dozen so it doesn't matter who is scanlating what. You just hop on collection-site and read all you like. If one group quits, more pop up. Yeah, they tend to suck worse than the groups they replaced but spoon-fed lumps could care less if the overall quality of scanlations drops every year. They'll gorge on sewage if that's the easiest meal for them to get. Scanlations are wasted on them, so why bother?

On the other hand, I remember when the overall quality of scanlations got better every year so I don't like the thought of groups just letting the hobby die in a stinky grave. Instead of quitting, maybe groups can organize a strike. Leeches get very impatient when they have to wait a few weeks for a regular release. Imagine how they'd react if they suddenly found no new scanlations for months on end. It's the groups that have all the power here. A year-long strike would make a statement so loud even the lumps might sit up and take notice. It's certainly better than bowing out and giving up on a hobby you actually enjoyed once upon a time.

psycho-shocker
Post #599123
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Parliament
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11:10 pm, May 14 2013
Posts: 187


I don't even know Mangafox exist before, haha biggrin I always download or view from scanlators as much as possible (if I can't, from mangatraders or mangashare or view it from mangainn).

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Post #599125 - Reply to (#599111) by cmertb
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11:15 pm, May 14 2013
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Quote from cmertb
How can it not be the leechers' fault if they're the ones generating revenue for Mangafox et al? Well, granted, they generate that revenue through stupidity rather than malice, but it's still their fault.


I'm sorry, don't know you how to read? I said it's not "entirely their fault". We're not shoving the blame only to one side here. The debate of who to blame would take like at least several more pages of posts.
It's not the "stupidity" of people that makes them choose the easier and faster way to read manga. It's simply some people are quicker to grab the demands of others and make use of it and everyone tends to go the shorter way.

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Cthylla
Post #599126
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Mythical Creature
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11:24 pm, May 14 2013
Posts: 218


Fair enough. I use readers when I can't find the original places to download them. I really like having a copy on my hd in case I want to read something again after the internet gets destroyed by the commies. Wait what. I should get some sleep.

saffiredragon
Post #599127 - Reply to (#599126) by Cthylla
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11:27 pm, May 14 2013
Posts: 5


I should go get some sleep too.

tart
Post #599129
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11:30 pm, May 14 2013
Posts: 302


http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=28000
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=29413
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=29410

Old news; just some of the threads from the search.

-shiratori-
Post #599134 - Reply to (#599115) by chueisha
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12:08 am, May 15 2013
Posts: 469


Quote from chueisha
Assuming you're replying to my post. I don't completely agree with Batoto's way of doing things. If for some very odd reason, I am forced to read online rather than download, and scanlators don't host them online (understandable, a lot don't), it would be Batoto > MF.

Otherwise, nah.


Okay, but now what do you do when the scanlator group in question doesn't allow batoto to host the manga yet the group doesn't host or distribute it theirselves anymore, probably because it's inactive/dead? There's quite a few manga like this. Would you rather choose to not read the manga at all?

I'm just trying to show here that mangafox and the like are actually needed by the community. It has nothing to do with stupidity or laziness. Blindly following the scanlators wishes without considering the circumstances is sometimes pretty stupid.

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Arigatomina
Post #599144 - Reply to (#599134) by -shiratori-
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1:04 am, May 15 2013
Posts: 32


Quote from -shiratori-
...the group doesn't host or distribute it theirselves anymore, probably because it's inactive/dead?

When a group is dead, the only "rules" I continue to follow are the ones about not sharing a licensed project they've told us to stop sharing, and not hosting their projects myself. I have no problem nabbing a copy of an unlicensed project from someone who ignores that second rule. I think it's a waste when a group closes with the "never share our stuff anywhere" rule still active. It's a waste of the time and effort of everyone who worked on those projects. That rule is usually made by the owner of the group, not every individual member. Just because the group mod decides to quit doesn't mean the translators and scanners and cleaners shouldn't be allowed to continue sharing the projects they worked on. The "no sharing our stuff" rule is only good to make people get the projects directly from that group. When that group stops sharing, there is only one reason for them to continue restricting people from sharing their projects - if the project is licensed and sharing it will get them in trouble. If the project isn't licensed then as far as I'm concerned it's better for people to start sharing it on the dead group's behalf than to force someone else to rescanlate that project when they could be working on unscanlated projects instead. I'm thinking of the good of the scanlation hobby as a whole here, not of the former-scanlators who worked on a project and then tried to erase it from existence just because they're not scanlation fans anymore. When you have a long project that was well scanlated once there is no sense in "respectful fans" having to redo that entire project just to follow a dead group's rules.

Now if we're talking about an innactive group, that's a little different. I go inactive all the time, taking months off depending on my schedule. I come back as strong as ever. If an inactive group had dead links, I would try to contact members of that group. I would then wait for months and even a year before assuming the group is dead. I think it's foolish when people talk about "picking up dead projects" after a group has only been inactive for a month. Those projects aren't dead any more than the group is. Who hasn't gotten busy for a few months? There's a big difference to me between dead and inactive.

Of course I don't host other people's projects no matter how long the group has been dead. I'm a scanlator. I can't do that if I want people to follow my rules (which concern not posting hardcore content on child-friendly parts of the net). I respect even the rules of the dead by not breaking them myself because I have to. But if I want to read that scanlation I will try to find a copy anywhere I can. And if I just can't find that project anywhere, then and only then will I consider buying the Japanese books and rescanlating it myself so I and other current manga fans will be able to read it.

Syphilis
Post #599146 - Reply to (#599092) by wolfinthesheep
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1:42 am, May 15 2013
Posts: 480


Quote from wolfinthesheep
Just to argue the semantics...

Technically Mangafox and its ilk don't actually take credit. They list the names of the scanlators for every chapter.

They STEAL content. They take work from scanlators against their wishes and then refuse to take it down. They also add their own watermarks, since apparently thievery is not enough; they feel the need to deface scanlators' hard work as well.
They list the names of the scanlator? More like they just leave the credits page in and put a disclaimer at the bottom. Pfft.

Read the numerous other threads regarding this issue. Everything there is to say has already been said.

Last edited by Syphilis at 1:48 am, May 15

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Post #599147 - Reply to (#599146) by Syphilis
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1:55 am, May 15 2013
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Quote from Syphilis
They STEAL content. They take work from scanlators against their wishes and then refuse to take it down. They also add their own watermarks, since apparently thievery is not enough; they feel the need to deface scanlators' hard work as well.
They list the names of the scanlator? More like they just ...

Do you not understand what the word "semantics" means, or did you just feel the need to rant and rave?

cmertb
Post #599150 - Reply to (#599125) by giinko
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2:24 am, May 15 2013
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Quote from giinko
I'm sorry, don't know you how to read? I said it's not "entirely their fault". We're not shoving the blame only to one side here. The debate of who to blame would take like at least several more pages of posts.
It's not the "stupidity" of people that makes them choose the easier an ...

No, don't know me how to read. I do know how to read though. If it's not "entirely their fault", then who else is there? Who makes money for the readers? If you want to blame someone else for a few more pages, go right ahead, it'll be interesting to see your arguments.

It's not stupidity of leechers that makes them choose online readers. What leechers' stupidity does is make them go to those readers without adblock and generate revenue for them. Not only that, they actually click on those ads. If leechers were a little smarter, all for profit online readers would be out of business by now.

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Gunzy
Post #599151
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2:27 am, May 15 2013
Posts: 150


Ha, scanlators are upset about MangaFox? Look at the bigger picture -- mangakas are the ones losing the money. If you aren't BUYING the manga legally, then you have NO right to talk about mangafox. Think about this:

Mangakas create manga for people to buy -- they make PROFIT from it
Scanlators get a hold of the raws of a particular manga, they then translate the manga into a language and release it to the public --FOR FREE.
Now, hosting sites, such as MangaFox, upload these files to their sites for people like you and me to read FOR FREE.

Sure, hosting sites have the easiest jobs --uploading the manga to their sites for the public to enjoy. They make some money and everyone's happy (except scanlators.) Scanlators provide the translations for the public to enjoy and make money.

But, who is really doing all the work?

The mangakas are the one's creating art for us to enjoy. It's a privilege that we can access manga for free whenever we want, but it's the mangakas who are doing the hard work and losing profit. It's the artist. They have their work stolen and given away to the masses. At least acknowledge that fact prior to throwing a pity party for scanlators. Many have addressed the issue already, yet it is still a problem. If you are reading a manga from a hosting site or downloading a manga from a scanlation site, you are stealing and have no right to bad mouth others about it.



silencecomes
Post #599155 - Reply to (#599151) by Gunzy
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2:47 am, May 15 2013
Posts: 689


Quote from Gunzy
Ha, scanlators are upset about MangaFox? Look at the bigger picture -- mangakas are the ones losing the money. If you aren't BUYING the manga legally, then you have NO right to talk about mangafox. Think about this:

Mangakas create manga for people to buy -- they make PROFIT from it
Scanlators get ...


This is the cold truth, people of the manga community.

People just complaining about MF and other readers? Did it never occur to you all that we are pirating the manga ourselves just by reading it online for free?

If all you're going to do is whine about how MF is evil, how about you learn to read Japanese, buy your own manga and read it yourself so everybody is happy. (Including the Mangaka! The god damn person/people who MADE the manga you so enjoy!)

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