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The reliance on "one-click" host for scanlation groups

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Member

9:59 am, Jul 30 2013
Posts: 42


You can always use torrent to share other stuff. But torrent is phasing out in fields like these as users' ip are nude, unless users are hiding ip with a paid proxy. Uploading copyright matter is illegal in many countries while Downloading is illegal in some including Japan. It's a criminal offense there and downloading willingly could end up in jail. In other countries they ban the users' internet service.

Those adf.ly are revenue sources. As you are not the admin of those groups, you can oppose by ignoring their stuff and refuse to download. But nothing much you can do to stop them, except reporting them to DMCA in order to take down their sites and links. Well, you may also pay for their operating fees too, on the contrary, but it's still their right to decide whether to use the ad links or not...

Last edited by megane007 at 11:06 am, Jul 30 2013

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1:26 am, Aug 1 2013
Posts: 21


^
This is deeply fraud.
Quote
You can always use torrent to share other stuff. But torrent is phasing out in fields like these as users' ip are nude, unless users are hiding ip with a paid proxy.

Firstly, torrent is not phasing out the field, in the contrary, your internet connection is improving from time to time and your diskspace is cheaper than ever, all the trendy stuff moves toward p2p and/or torrent. The software industry hardly care about diskspace and they distribute pretty much any big thing with torrents and are willing to do so. The scientific community, uses torrent to distribute decentralized computed data too! Needless to say about animes and movies, there is simply no legitimate alternatives, do i need to mention thepiratebay or something? It is just that the manga community i feel not quite there. As for paid proxy, i cant see why is it necessary, only people who do more outrageous stuff would do something like this, they probably feed such information to the Web too. "OMG The internet is so dangerous!"

Secondly, your ip is in fact more nuded on the Web, in torrents you don't have to care about anything more than turning protocol encryption on. In a web browser, that's a different story, sure, you have something called "https" but each link you site on Web has to go through some obstacle like DNS which clear indicate what content you see/download, as for "one-click host", they come with ads and many other obstacle, they come from foreign websites and doesn't offer encryption, so you can never be sure what is encrypted and what is not. In torrent, the very best the ISP can do is to acknowledge that you are running bittorrent, but they can't see any content so they can't charge you for anything.

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Uploading copyright matter is illegal in many countries while Downloading is illegal in some including Japan. It's a criminal offense there and downloading willingly could end up in jail.

Thirdly, the copyright trolls hardly extend such power, as if going anywhere is illegal, download hardly send you to jail or something. It is just against our common sense. If you are going to caught someone, let's send everyone to jail shall we? Well, maybe some still thinks it is so lawful, so it makes sense i guess.

Quote
Those adf.ly are revenue sources. As you are not the admin of those groups, you can oppose by ignoring their stuff and refuse to download. But nothing much you can do to stop them, except reporting them to DMCA in order to take down their sites and links. Well, you may also pay for their operating fees too, on the contrary, but it's still their right to decide whether to use the ad links or not...

I do think you know what you want, why would anyone want to kill adf.ly? As if it kills people or torrents offend you or something? I think you lost track of the fact that i made this post to give out my honest opinions and methods for the sake of scanlation groups, i cant see any point or intend for anyone to write up explicit content like this.

Member

8:23 pm, Aug 1 2013
Posts: 42


fraud?
I guess you are living in a place with no copyright concern. Otherwise, Please read the news. You can always tell others to ignore the red light but its their right to decide to obey or not.

I had said you can torrent other non copyright stuff. I had no negative its function. There is no need to promote here. It's been known a decade ago. But your ip is nude to anyone connecting with the same torrent. That anyone include the copyright holders. They don't need to ask any site host to investigate. Not that one-click host is absolutely safe. But link reporters can request to remove the links easily and that usually stop there, unless they are targeting on a massive uploader.





Last edited by megane007 at 8:58 pm, Aug 1 2013

Post #609440 - Reply to (#609415) by megane007
Member

4:13 am, Aug 2 2013
Posts: 21


You have read the news of the worthy few not knowing the fact you turn on protocol encryption and there you can go. You can read my post again carefully.

===

Instead of criticizing me suggest the use of p2p software (among many solutions you can explore), why not look at the website you(scanlation groups) offer and convince yourself that you can attract the visitors you lost from online readers. I have nothing more to say except that the p2p world is much cooler for me(or everyone) and i would rather quit (online) manga or pressure/convince you to change.

If you do scanlation i guess you really love manga, then try imagine the day when one can just honestly draw the way he/she like without putting their stuff behind paywall and additionally feed a bunch of publishers/middlemen. This is the right way to help manga community.

Last edited by lolnameless at 4:29 am, Aug 2 2013

Post #609443
Member

6:59 am, Aug 2 2013
Posts: 17


You're asking mostly ignorant(everyone is ignorant at one point) masses learn the ins and outs of p2p such as protocol encryption and stuff instead of going to a website and clicking links.

You sir are brilliant!

Post #609487 - Reply to (#609443) by Recaro
Member

11:54 am, Aug 2 2013
Posts: 21


You(or the others) are asking how p2p works and i lay them out as i should, the ins and outs of a web browser is at least 100000 times more complicated than i can ever imagine.

Your web browser has protocol encryption too!

One thing i can't say so easily is that i cant just tell you "don't use p2p if you hate it so much", however, each reply i replied implies the use of p2p is some kind of absolution or something, which is not the case.

Post #609499
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3:45 pm, Aug 2 2013
Posts: 402


lolnameless How many people will it take to explain to you that protocol encryption doesn't protect your IP from peers in the same swarm? The only way to protect your IP is to use a proxy.

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4:43 pm, Aug 2 2013
Posts: 19


Honestly, there are reasons why online manga readers are so popular and have so much traffic flow so I think it's ridiculous to expect them to disappear any time soon, even if there was a surge in popularity in obtaining manga directly from the scanlators' sites.

As for actually downloading manga, in the past I've much preferred the "one click hosts" for manga to torrents. Usually, if I'm downloading something it's because it's a lesser known manga. In many cases, the files are several years old. "One click sites" often, much to my surprise, still have the files available. Torrents on the other hand are often unseeded. Consider this - a relatively unknown story 2 years later, what's the likeliness of it still having seeds? But as long as a "one click" site hasn't deleted the file, or the original uploader, then the file is still there for anyone who wants to enjoy the manga years later.

It's not that torrents don't have their uses, it's just, in my opinion, not as useful as other choices for both the scanlators and their followers.

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12:33 am, Aug 3 2013
Posts: 21


Quote from cmertb
lolnameless How many people will it take to explain to you that protocol encryption doesn't protect your IP from peers in the same swarm? The only way to protect your IP is to use a proxy.

How many years do you need to understand the word "encryption"? You are free to protect your IP, so no one can charge your IP being too public or something, idk.
Quote from FeyPhantom
Honestly, there are reasons why online manga readers are so popular and have so much traffic flow so I think it's ridiculous to expect them to disappear any time soon, even if there was a surge in popularity in obtaining manga directly from the scanlators' sites.

I didn't say that, there is a reason for something else but it doesn't mean it is right for everything.
Quote
As for actually downloading manga, in the past I've much preferred the "one click hosts" for manga to torrents. Usually, if I'm downloading something it's because it's a lesser known manga. In many cases, the files are several years old. "One click sites" often, much to my surprise, still have the files available. Torrents on the other hand are often unseeded.

As long as you hosted something, you are good to go, mangatrader for example, they can open a torrent if they feel like it, then you have anything you prefer. Also, i can't really see the relation, it makes sense to find things which are available. If you find something on "one-click host", you wouldn't say "ftp sucks", or something like that.
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Consider this - a relatively unknown story 2 years later, what's the likeliness of it still having seeds? But as long as a "one click" site hasn't deleted the file, or the original uploader, then the file is still there for anyone who wants to enjoy the manga years later.

That is a good story, give bakabt.me a shot!
Quote
It's not that torrents don't have their uses, it's just, in my opinion, not as useful as other choices for both the scanlators and their followers.

Didn't address anything except trend analysis so far, the trend is bad because the trend is bad.

=====

Disclaimer: I am not enforcing anyone to seed or upload, but i counter arguments which i don't agree with. If you hate torrent or want to hate torrent, feel free to hate, it is fine.

Post #609544 - Reply to (#609540) by lolnameless
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1:08 am, Aug 3 2013
Posts: 137


Quote from lolnameless
Quote from FeyPhantom
Consider this - a relatively unknown story 2 years later, what's the likeliness of it still having seeds? But as long as a "one click" site hasn't deleted the file, or the original uploader, then the file is still there for anyone who wants to enjoy the manga years later.
That is a good story, give bakabt.me a shot!


lolnameless you're repeating this as a mantra and at the same time you're saying it's for the sake of scanlatiors. You don't get it do you. Well nobody mentioned it so far anyway. The idea of torrents is not bad but for them to work on long term a special site like bakabt would need to be made (and no, bakabt is not the solution) to which all scanlaitors would agree and where the admins of scanlaitors would have full control over their torrent files (meaning they can remove them at any point they want) at the same time the site should be willing to brake the laws because some scanlaitors continue hosting manga even after it's licensed in US. And many more. (but that's practically impossible, the only site so far that does have scanlaitors approval, batoto, is on a good track but really there's still many who don't give a shit about them or out right do not support them)
The point is that one-click links exist atm because that's the way scanlaitors have at least some control over their files. And while it's a shit what people do with the files later on at least the scanlaitors can do with the links whatever they want on their HP. On the other hand if they'd use torrents from the beginning after 2 years they would not be seeded any more accept if they could afford the seedbox. Online readers have that much tragic because many different mangas are collected at one place. bakabt is seeded because it has many different stuff collected at one place. Scanalitors have only a select few, which is why their stuff dies out eventually. And i'm saying this out of experiences, a few scanlaitors (a few even now) used torrent as their way of distribution, and I regularly stumbled upon torents with no seed so it was just easier to find a DL link on external site or go to online reader.

Post #609553 - Reply to (#609544) by Chibi-Chibi
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2:45 am, Aug 3 2013
Posts: 280


Quote from lolnameless
How many years do you need to understand the word "encryption"? You are free to protect your IP, so no one can charge your IP being too public or something, idk.

And how many years do you actually need to understand that you should read up on something before you start acting like an expert in that area?
All torrent encryption does is - it hides what you are doing from your ISP. They won't be able to tell that you're downloading/sharin{g a torrent, but it doesn't mean that your IP address is hidden. Other people connected to the torrent are still able to see it.

In other words: Torrent encryption only anonymizes your traffic. A proxy/vpn is what can actually hide your ip (though, it'll most likely lower your speed).

Quote from Chibi-Chibi
Quote from lolnameless
That is a good story, give bakabt.me a shot!
lolnameless you're repeating this as a mantra

Yes, it's starting to feel like some sort of weird attempt to advertise the site.

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Post #609554 - Reply to (#609544) by Chibi-Chibi
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2:46 am, Aug 3 2013
Posts: 21


Quote from Chibi-Chibi
lolnameless you're repeating this as a mantra and at the same time you're saying it's for the sake of scanlatiors. You don't get it do you. Well nobody mentioned it so far anyway.

oh ok..
Quote
The idea of torrents is not bad but for them to work on long term a special site like bakabt would need to be made (and no, bakabt is not the solution) to which all scanlaitors would agree

That's what i want to see and why i made this post, it sounds like mission impossible to you but i see it as an ideal. And yes, bakabt is half of the solution (Is the glass half empty or half full?), the missing piece is the sense of completeness if people prefer, which clearly has a limit but we move toward that goal, that's how i see it, i like p2p.
Quote
where the admins of scanlaitors would have full control over their torrent files (meaning they can remove them at any point they want) at the same time the site should be willing to brake the laws because some scanlaitors continue hosting manga even after it's licensed in US.

Well, that's just the .torrent files, the website is indexes of torrents afterall. That's exactly what bakabt is doing, btw.
Quote
And many more. (but that's practically impossible, the only site so far that does have scanlaitors approval, batoto, is on a good track but really there's still many who don't give a shit about them or out right do not support them)

Online readers won't serve scanlation groups well, that's because MU is too good, we don't need to visit online readers to find mangas. The only reason for manga lovers(not just readers) to visit online readers is to read. They wouldn't help distribute/expand mangas in any meaningful way, it violates them.
Quote
The point is that one-click links exist atm because that's the way scanlaitors have at least some control over their files. And while it's a shit what people do with the files later on at least the scanlaitors can do with the links whatever they want on their HP. On the other hand if they'd use torrents from the beginning after 2 years they would not be seeded any more accept if they could afford the seedbox. Online readers have that much tragic because many different mangas are collected at one place. bakabt is seeded because it has many different stuff collected at one place. Scanalitors have only a select few, which is why their stuff dies out eventually.

Network effect solves the problem, i don't think manga is that big. (Is the glass half empty or half full?)
I realize that scanlators cant do everything and they don't have to do everything, but putting up a torrent here and there also encourage the others to seed/upload.
In bakabt or e-hentai, you can see people are actively uploading/seeding hentai, i mean, hentai.. why would anyone like to seed these? If one can seed hentai, then why not seed meaningful stuff(say, "educational manga" in other thread) instead?
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And i'm saying this out of experiences, a few scanlaitors (a few even now) used torrent as their way of distribution, and I regularly stumbled upon torents with no seed so it was just easier to find a DL link on external site or go to online reader.

I tell them to seed, some of them did, but i found it too stupid, so i submit a post here instead smile

Quote from Gradonil_Ral
And how many years do you actually need to understand that you should read up on something first, before you start talking about it?
All torrent encryption does is - it hides what you are doing from your ISP. They won't be able to tell that you're downloading/sharin{g a torrent, but it doesn't mean that your IP address is hidden. Other people connected to the torrent are still able to see it.

In other words: Torrent encryption only anonymizes your traffic. A proxy/vpn is what can actually hide your ip (though, it'll most likely lower your speed).

Are you trying to say hiding your activity from ISP isn't enough? OMG the internet is so dangerous!
Theoretically there is no such thing like fully anonymous, if you want to be anonymous i suggest you unplug from the internet.
Quote
Yes, it's starting to feel like some sort of weird attempt to advertise the site.

As if the internet is big enough to name the other site. It is an old site without ads, btw.

Last edited by lolnameless at 3:00 am, Aug 3 2013

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3:19 am, Aug 3 2013
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Quote
Are you trying to say hiding your activity from ISP isn't enough? OMG the internet is so dangerous!
Theoretically there is no such thing like fully anonymous, if you want to be anonymous i suggest you unplug from the internet.

I'm saying that sharing copyrighted material is illegal. That's one of the reasons why MU no longer provides download links along with the new release info.
Some of the companies whose content is shared via torrent use the torrents to log the IPs of the people who share it. They later use the IPs to track those people.
In most cases, they'll just send out C&D letters, in extreme cases, they might choose to sue them.

I'm not saying that it is likely to happen to us. I'm merely saying that it is a possibility and that if some people don't want to temp such fate, I can understand that.

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Post #609572 - Reply to (#609558) by Gradonil_Ral
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4:56 am, Aug 3 2013
Posts: 21


Quote
I'm saying that sharing copyrighted material is illegal.

Are you sure about that, you suggest people to use VPN to hide their IP.
Quote
Some of the companies whose content is shared via torrent use the torrents to log the IPs of the people who share it. They later use the IPs to track those people.
In most cases, they'll just send out C&D letters, in extreme cases, they might choose to sue them.

That's quite original, if the C&D letters that is sent is independent of your ISP, then i can't see how "one-click host" is safer than torrent. Well, i guess maybe one should really pay for a VPN to keep the internet dangerous.
Quote
I'm not saying that it is likely to happen to us. I'm merely saying that it is a possibility and that if some people don't want to temp such fate, I can understand that.

I'm not saying that it is unlikely to happen to us. I'm merely saying that if it is a possibility and that if some people want to torrent, I can understand that better than you do.

Post #609583 - Reply to (#609540) by lolnameless
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7:07 am, Aug 3 2013
Posts: 402


Quote from lolnameless
How many years do you need to understand the word "encryption"? You are free to protect your IP, so no one can charge your IP being too public or something, idk.

*sigh*

Refer to this. Note how the peer wire protocol runs over TCP per spec (although I think UDP can used for that as well). Then refer to the obfuscation spec.

Now the question. Your source IP address can be found in:
a) Torrent protocol payload
b) TCP headers
c) IP headers

If you answered (a) or (b), please come back after you finish reading the IP spec.

If you answered (c), move on to the next question:
When protocol obfuscation is turned on
a) IP header is encrypted
b) IP header is not encrypted

If you answered (a), read the protocol obfuscation spec above and attempt this question again.

If you answered (b), you should now realize that your source IP address is in plain sight regardless of whether protocol obfuscation is used or not. Even if you report a fake IP address to the tracker, once you establish a direct TCP or UDP link with another peer in your swarm, they will know your real IP address. And if that peer happens to belong to a copyright troll, they can start tracing you.

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