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New Poll - Scanlation Anger

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T1
Post #618569 - Reply to (#618517) by Karuna
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The H Emperor
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2:30 pm, Oct 22 2013
Posts: 457


I agree...sooooo many titles just waiting to be scanlated and people are doing the same title as others...it's stupid.

Your readers must be nice ones...I wish every reader was like that. I had 200 downloads, 2 thanks and 6 mails asking for retranslation...I wish I had your readers who are grateful as when you release.

T1
Post #618570 - Reply to (#618566) by youtakun
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The H Emperor
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2:32 pm, Oct 22 2013
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True...how would you know. I know cuz my understanding of Japanese is better than you but I guess you wouldn't know.
It's again a poll that is pointing in 3-4 demographers so fail poll D:

KaoriNite
Post #618571 - Reply to (#618564) by T1
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2:32 pm, Oct 22 2013
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Maybe learning a language is relatively easy for you, but its not the same for everyone. So yes, ability does play a part. No, you don't need to be a genius to learn a language, but I think we all know that people's skills and talents vary. And at the end of the day, should everyone who wants to read manga have to learn Japanese? If this is what you believe, then why have scanlations, or the official translations?

Quote from T1
No the reason why everyone doesn't speak Japanese is that everyone don't got an interest in it. It would be like China...1,351 billion people speaking Chinese. Not because of ability, time and resources but cuz they need to do so. Otherwise they would have a big problem living in China.


You can't compare the two. Learning your native language is completely different from learning a second language.

Quote from T1
I agree with "there's no need to translate for people if they complain" reason. Still explain this to me: If I stop because of one tard, what about the rest of the readers who love the title?


I'm surprised people are treating this as a completely novel idea. I've had manga that I'd been reading be dropped because the scanlators were so frustrated with ungrateful readers. Yes, they punished every one for what a few did.


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KaoriNite
Post #618572 - Reply to (#618565) by T1
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2:40 pm, Oct 22 2013
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Quote from T1
When Chinese students go to USA to study they can't use their own names. Why? cuz you compare the act of being able to pronounce their names with making a "soccer" team so you just don't do it. Instead they are kinda forced to get themself an american name like Racheal or Stephen instead of Xiang or Dam. Well if you can't respect others by using their real names then it's no wonder that learning Japanese is hard when you compare everything with making a "soccer" team. THAT BIG A JOB, EH?!


You're getting a bit off topic, but in response to this I'm American and we have tons of foreigners. I've never been any where where they were forced to change their names, In most cases, people change their names on their own because they get tired of people struggling with the pronunciation. Americans themselves often have strange names (you thought Beyonce was a special case?). Most people will try to pronounce others' names as well as they can.

Also, the topic of learning Japanese came up because someone was saying that readers should learn Japanese and then they wouldn't have to complain about the quality and speed of scans. No one ever mentioned that they wouldn't be useful to a scanlation group because they can't read Japanese.


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greydrak
Post #618582 - Reply to (#618288) by Sakuya
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5:15 pm, Oct 22 2013
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Agreed, I was looking through the options and this was the only one that fit, they all piss me off, and they all tie for most annoying parts of scanlations.

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Perfect1
Post #618590 - Reply to (#618559) by T1
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6:33 pm, Oct 22 2013
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@3 Reminds me of a comment I read from someone stating that he believed that he could be as horrible as he wanted towards scanlators since in the instance that they gave up working on the manga some other scanlator would within a very short time pick up that title.

I just don't understand why it seems like some people feel that they are more entitled to make demands on something that is free than for something he/she would pay for.

PROzess
Post #618592 - Reply to (#618571) by KaoriNite
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Pissed Off TL0r
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6:44 pm, Oct 22 2013
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No one says that you HAVE to learn japanese.

The argument is: If you have time to complain or make excuses, use that time to study.
Period.

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Kewl0210
Post #618597
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7:27 pm, Oct 22 2013
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I just wanna say, this has some really good discussion about this whole subject. A good wide range of opinions, even if some have some circular thinking.

I generally think that as far as many groups doing the same manga goes, it's kind of silly, but some groups will translate/scanlate differently than others. Some are speed groups that do a quick, cheap job that aren't necessarily poor, and others do HQ versions with better quality sources. Also some just are crap and others try to do a better version. I do think it's a good idea to encourage people to work on other manga that's not being worked on than say, be the 5th group simultaneously doing the same one manga though, if it's already being done in good quality. Whining that something that's up to date with the latest in Japan isn't fast enough, just because other manga come out faster, is not.

It certainly is possible to self-teach yourself Japanese, because I did it. I didn't set out to become a manga translator, though. I started out just doing small things then eventually moved onto doing manga when I thought I could do it satisfactorily. It's better to start with something simple, maybe something with pretty simple grammar, and then move up as you learn more. It really just takes constant use of it, building on what you learned before and exposing yourself to new things (And repeating the old so you know it better). That said, you shouldn't whine about people not giving you your free grey-area legal thing fast enough or whatever. Or whine about tiny mistakes in huge projects. And it's certainly better to volunteer to help than whine all that time which a lot of people do. Though I wouldn't say you HAVE TO or anything.

The thing is, anonymity of the Internet makes it really easy for people to do that kind of armchair criticism. People see things from the perspective of their computer screens and usually don't take much effort in figuring out how it gets there. It is MUCH easier to criticize someone without really thinking than it is to consider how much work, time energy, they put in and what complying to their demands would entail to the person. And while sometimes criticism is legitimate, often people are just entitled brats about it. That sort of things upset scanlators. If a group's not doing basic proofreading or their translations are clearly full of meaning-related errors, or the cleans look through they were run through a washing machine, or they didn't even do basic cleaning they could learn in a tutorial in an hour, then it's worth criticizing. Whining that there's a small typo in a scanlation of 400+ lines that the entire team put together in less than a week to maintain an up-to-date weekly schedule, is not. Whining that a group is spending too much time on one project rather than the project they personally want the group to work on is not. There's a different in "wanting your scans to be up to a certain standard of quality" and "demanding everything be perfect while you are doing nothing to contribute or give back while the person does it for free". The thing is, most manga doesn't get scanlated and often if a group drops it, it doesn't get picked up. Or often the scans won't be of nearly as good quality. That goes for popular manga in the US/Japan as well as obscure ones.

Humans have a tendency to feel entitled to things they're just "used" to getting. If something is seen as a "we usually get this without having to wait" then if they have to wait, they feel like they've been denied something. People usually bring up the "it's a privilege not a right" thing here. Basically, when you get used to something always happening, you can start to think that it not happening is a denial of your rights, somehow. In cases like this, it really isn't. You've just been being treated special the whole time, other people have been going out of their way for YOU. It has to do, I think, with emotional empathy. The people that complain relate it to a company offering a product to them that they're purchasing, which is a completely different relationship, one where the source is getting money back which allows them to reasonably devote time to it and meet expectations in order to maintain a livelihood. They don't see the "human aspect" because it's not personalized TO THEM. Most people don't go about reading blogs scanlators write or anything, see who does what, learn about the scanlator's preferences, philosophy, likes and dislikes, creative choices, and all that. They just check a reader to see if something's there or not. It's really an immature, thoughtless response that I'd like to think most reasonable people are able to curb that impulse and realize this is something people do in their free time, for no money, that takes tons of time and they get really nothing in return for, doing it purely for love of the manga and wanting to spread that thing they love to other people. At most, it's good practice for being a professional translator or a writer, but it's not something you can put on a resume or get monetary compensation for. When you have free time outside of work/school/training/sleep/other important parts of life, then it's reasonable to do. If people demand that they spend more of their time on something, they don't consider that maybe the person would like to, but can't do it without sacrificing one of those important things. Like I end up having little sleep a lot of the time just to keep up with weekly schedules, often just so my own staff work on it because even they sometimes don't show up if my job's done late. I won't even go into the tons of problems between staff, but often if you have enthusiastic people who can perform every job except one, then the project won't get done. It takes every step being done for it to be done. It can often take more than hard work, but also compliance from other in order to get jobs done. I've got a good number of scanlations I've done over a year ago that aren't scanlated yet, and I don't have time to bug people or try to do it myself, or find a new group to do it with at the moment.

But basically, if people see something getting done for them that they don't have to do anything special for, they don't have any emotional empathy for the people and just see it as this cold-emotionless entity that it's okay to make demands for because that's what they're "supposed" to do. There's a diffusion of responsibility, because it's just a thing put openly on the internet that lots of people read. They don't feel like someone went out of their way for them specifically, so they don't OWE anyone anything, and they can therefore complain if something makes them mildly uncomfortable. That I think is what causes the problem. One group of people is doing tons of work for nothing out of passion and the spirit of sharing something they love, trying to make others happy for no personal gain, and the other group doesn't view that aspect and just continuously thinks the former group OWES them. That a group that takes a long time to do something is "just lazy" and bullshit like that. As someone mentioned, the relationship isn't even close to equal. And they don't make an effort to relate to the person or understand their situation at all, which is generally pretty immature and self-centered. Especially on the internet where everyone thinks it's okay to complain, blame, and shame everybody for whatever thing they feel entitled to have. Then they insult people that don't deliver. It's kind of a human heuristical response that only goes away with a more widespread understanding of how the process works. Which I encourage people to do, try to emphatically convey to these people what is going on, I mean. And maybe it will get people to stop being jerks about that sort of thing a little bit. Course, some people will just be spoiled brats anyhow.

Last edited by Kewl0210 at 8:02 pm, Oct 22

KaoriNite
Post #618628 - Reply to (#618592) by PROzess
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1:56 am, Oct 23 2013
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Quote from T1
If you can use time on reading manga then you can use time on learning how to read in Japanese so you can read your manga.


Quote from ikore
If you got time to read manga, there's time to learn Japanese.


Their argument is different from yours.

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KaoriNite
Post #618629 - Reply to (#618592) by PROzess
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1:56 am, Oct 23 2013
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Sorry, somehow I double posted.

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cmertb
Post #618631 - Reply to (#618628) by KaoriNite
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2:26 am, Oct 23 2013
Posts: 161


And all of their arguments are correct, even if different. What was your argument again? smile

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KaoriNite
Post #618637 - Reply to (#618631) by cmertb
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2:52 am, Oct 23 2013
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It's more of a question: If we all should just learn Japanese then why do we need scanlations?

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cmertb
Post #618643 - Reply to (#618637) by KaoriNite
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4:02 am, Oct 23 2013
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Quote from KaoriNite
It's more of a question: If we all should just learn Japanese then why do we need scanlations?

Obviously, because you haven't learned Japanese. Once you do, you won't need them.

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PROzess
Post #618655 - Reply to (#618628) by KaoriNite
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Pissed Off TL0r
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8:35 am, Oct 23 2013
Posts: 97


Now you have to keep in mind what the poll is about.

It asks what is "annoying" about scanlation and as pointed out previously, half of the "problems" can be solved by the reader itself by becoming a scanlator himself.
So the first argument was to use the time to study instead of complaining, but then the focus fell onto studying Japanese and people made excuses about having no time, thus shifting the argument to "Time to read = Time to study".

I would prefer if you would read the thread in it's entirety before putting in you're two cents.

Again, if you do not find any of the poll choices "annoying" and can patiently wait for a release, nothing of the above applies to you.

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PROzess
Post #618656 - Reply to (#618637) by KaoriNite
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Pissed Off TL0r
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8:38 am, Oct 23 2013
Posts: 97


Isn't that the ultimate goal?
I mean, what's so good about being dependent on a third party for your hobby?

Lots of problems would disappear if just everyone knew Japanese^^

But that's an utopia anyway, so we just ask the people for patience, to no avail-.-

Translators dedicated years of learning japanese and then dedicated their time to bring you guys more manga, yet most comments consists of "want more" "want faster"....

I just want to do something about the ignorance of people, even though it's seems impossible.

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