I feel like this question gets asked every week, so this answer goes out to everyone who repeats it every week.

No one cares that you care about people caring whether or not that you care about the poll you don't like.


Although the question could've been worded more adequately (let's face it - we're not all English majors here) it seems like the majority of the forumites understood it better than you did.

Yes, ultimately the question objectifies (fictional!) women, but it goes deeper than that. As a character designer/mangaka, it is up to you whether or not sex appeal plays a part in the sales of your product.
If you think you can work it with "normal" sizes and rely on your story-telling abilities, go for your life, if you want the series to be a little bit ecchi to cater to a niche demographic, you can do that too.
THAT'S why boob sizes matter. The forum is filled with different types of people with different types of tastes. You talk as if this is forced upon you. You bring up misogyny as if you don't have even a hint of misandristic agenda.

Heck, I don't get why people are so fucking upset when the winning vote is going to "average".
That should tell you something.

So yes, you are being a little hysterical for taking this so damn irrationally.



I mean, why you're even taking this poll seriously is beyond me. I mean...how can you not vote the last option?!

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Everyday I'm tumblin'

This response is very funny. For one, none of the points I made are rebuked. This response does not actually hurt any of my arguments.

For another, I said I didn't care about the intention of the poll maker. "Although it could have been worded more adequately" is not an excuse. I am telling you how it comes off to some people. "Although it could have been worded more adequately" does not negate what my entire post was about: that the poll purports to ask about characterization while it is eliciting answers about what kind of boob size do people prefer on female characters? That the poll reduces all females to a sex object.

Re: "sex sells", one, the fact that sex sells does not excuse going to the most vapid place possible when talking about female characters. Two, boob size still doesn't matter to someone's characterization. Three, in this thread I have not seen anyone talking about it from a marketing perspective. Who's the one out of touch with the rest of the forum? Neither does marketing immediately come to mind when someone sees this question--what does come to mind is blatant misogyny. Fourth, "callous" and "rational" are not synonyms.

You do know that an emotional reaction to something =/= being irrational? Did I use reasoning and evidence in my last post. Yes, yes I did.

Wait, I have something even better. From Derailing for Dummies:




Because I want to believe that for some people boob size doesn't matter? Because I want to believe in humanity? It depends on what kind of poll it is that "Who cares" should be relevant.

By the bye, it really, really doesn't make me feel better that "Average" is coming out on top. One, that is beside the point. Two, it is still people (men) saying something about how women should be in order to appeal to them.

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“You know what makes humans different from other animals? We’re the only species on earth that observes shark week. Sharks don’t even observe shark week. But we do. For the same reason, I can pick up this pencil, tell you it’s name is Steve and snap it in half and part of you dies, just a little bit on the inside. Because people can connect with anything. We can sympathize with a pencil. We can forgive a shark. People can find the good in just about anything but themselves. You are all better than you think you are.”
— Jeff Winger, Community

Again, no.
Fictional female characters != Real life female (ie. you...?)

Unless of course, you're part of a newfound species of human/cartoon character crossbreed that I haven't been aware of since I started living under a rock - because if so, then I totally understand your empathy towards your 2D sistrens and apologize.

If not, then what is it to you how other people perceive and treat their fantastical characters? Because, again, THEY'RE NOT REAL PEOPLE.

You may bring up how all this reflects upon how society expects the female gender to dress/act/behave like in real life - but with this kind of topic, you're generally dealing with OTAKUS.
Otakus dgaf about the 3D world in general. They're thinking specifically about 2D while answering this question - because it's asking about creating a MANGA CHARACTER not a real person.

If you wanna talk about derailment, you're the one who took it so personally and brought brought checkers pieces to a chess game.


Boobs = vapid in a "sex sells" argument? lolwut
What do you suggest we talk about instead? dat booty?


When I said "character designer" I meant actual concept artists who are in charge of VISUALLY designing characters for marketing purposes. Characterization can (but not always) be an after-thought in their line of work. Sexual appeal could matter to someone's characterization. If Faye Valentine did not have the sexual appeal that she does, there was no way she could've got things to go her way using her methods.


Well it came to mind to me? It's part of my job. And just because I'm the first person to bring it up doesn't necessarily mean I'm the first to think of it too. You CAN vote without having to voice your opinions about it.

Liking sexually attractive women is as misogynistic as liking sexually attractive men is misandristic. Just because a person prefers his women/men (real or not) to cater their every need and desires doesn't make them a misogynist/misandrist. It just means they've either got a spoiled ego or they're just chauvinistic.


TIL fictional boob size is a reason to believe in humanity.


Well in THIS POLL it isn't relevant because that defeats the entire purpose of asking for specific answers.

When you're filling out a form and you come across a question that does not apply to you, do you leave it blank or do you demand a new form to be printed out with an option thats says that you're not applicable?

When you did multiple-choice tests in primary school and you couldn't figure out the answer, did you make yourself an option for "DERP I DUNNO" ?

If someone doesn't care about the subject topic of a poll, then they shouldn't have to be tallied for the final result. Saying they should is a fairly conceited statement and, to be frank, pretty fucking narcissistic.


I have a 250cc Kawasaki, but I wish it looked exactly like a 1000cc Ducati. Do I still ride it? Yes, because I'm thankful for what I have even though it isn't what I truly want.
You don't always get what you want in real life, but it doesn't mean you can't appreciate what you have. Your kind of thinking makes me question whether or not you've even been a serious relationship or even at all.

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Everyday I'm tumblin'

What's going on here? It's like I'm watching a talk show about feminism.
The poll does NOT imply:
a) that bust size is all that matters
b) that there's only one female character or that they're all the same
c) that all women are the same and can be reduced to their breasts.

ALL of that is simply your interpretation.

This is self-righteous indignation by a few butthurt people thinking a simple poll has wounded all womankind. It's sexist to have an opinion on breast size apparently.

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If were going to talk about females why not get a female perspective?
Anyways, I wasn't personally offended by the poll to the extent of other people, but I did get the implication that the most important thing about a female character is her bust size. I'm sure that there were others that saw it the same way too.

@Scyfon, even though these are fictional characters, they are representations of our real life opinions/views. Which is why some women are getting offended in this poll. I think we've all heard similar comments made in real life about the perfect size for a woman's breasts. And this poll is reminding some people of how offended they feel when they hear these comments made in the real world.

We all have our opinions on what we find attractive about others, which is fine. but to sit around and talk about a woman's breast size like its the only thing that matters does seem sexist to me. is it the worst sexist thing? No. But it does objectify women.

I don't think I saw anybody in the thread talking like that at all.

Seriously if the poll had been about hair color or strength nobody would be getting angry and saying it's objectifying people. To even insinuate this poll is objectifying anyone is asinine. I could understand if the poll had said "A woman is only worth something if her bust size is..." but it doesn't say that. It's about a preference when it comes to bust size. Just like people prefer different colors or foods. It doesn't mean the person thinks those other colors or foods have no worth.

I've seen polls before talking about character appearances and nobody batted an eye or talked about how much of an injustice it is. Making a poll out to be more than it is just to push an issue is the only sickening thing I see in this thread.


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I wasn't assuming that it was a feminist point of view, I was simply making a comparison that was rather meant to be funny than serious. Anyway, you surely know what I mean.

I can understand people getting offended because they're being reminded about something they dislike, but there's no need for some people to overreact the way they did. In the end the poll is not saying that one size is better than another or asking what the "perfect" size is. It's simply asking for your personal concept of a female character in regard to her bust size (which is actually relevant in manga).

It's a poll, it's not meant to hurt anyone, so I hope people calm down a bit.

I mentioned this in my first post, but I disagree with this point. I don't really think bust size is relevant in manga unless the manga is a hentai or ecchi one. Outside of these genres, its just another body part that has to be drawn, like the ears or hands. But we probably would never have a poll about hand size. The difference is we usually don't judge people based on the shape or size of their hands, but women are often judged by their breast size.

Also, I realize that the poll wasn't intended to hurt anyone. But if someone says something that people can take offensively, shouldn't we give them a heads up that some people will be offended? So that maybe next time they will choose their words more carefully if they don't want to offend anyone (or so that they at least know what they are walking into when they decide to go ahead and say something offensive)

What I meant with "relevant" is that Japan is always exaggerating when it comes to the bust size. They're drawing them ridiculously large or small, unproportional or just unnatural when considering the age of the character. Bust size is actually a recurring topic in a lot of manga.
Mangaka don't draw hands or feet bigger than the character's head, but they do it with their breasts. So yeah, because of the way this is handled by the authors, it is relevant.

Once again, not talking about rl but about manga. (And with bust size being "relevant", I don't mean that the size matters but that the topic itself is relevant, reason above.)

The fact that this poll may or may not have been deliberately malicious in intent is completely besides the point. People can be sexist asses and still not intend to be. INTENT NEVER MATTERS. It's still sexist bullshit. And the reason why people don't get upset about hair/clothing etc, is because those are gender neutral things that affect everyone. Breasts are usually specific to those who identify as female. Those claiming it's a relevant topic because of marketing strategy are basically saying that misogyny sells, so why should women be upset at being degraded if misogyny sells so well? Come on, manga authors have to make a living too right? Except why does objectification sell so well in the first place? When people say sex sells, 90% of the time we know they're not referring to men in Speedos. Just because misogyny is so ingrained into our culture that it sells well, doesn't mean we should encourage it.

Besides, I'm frankly amazed at how the people in this forum have repeatedly reduced a woman's personality down to how big or small her breast size is, and people are still talking like this isn't about reducing a woman down to her breast size. Athletic women can have large boobs. I used to play basketball with a lot women who had bigger boobs than most in the school. There were also flat chested women on the team, seriously all the shit about a woman's personality/background/whatever affecting her boob size is bs. Poor women can have big boobs, and they can even be fat too since it's hard to afford healthy food that's so expensive. I know it's hard for men to realize but we aren't one monolithic group with specific boobs granted to specific types of people. Innocent girls can have large boobs and sexual women can be flat-chested, seriously stop with the stereotyping bullshit. Boobs are generally genetic and have nothing to do with anything else.

How we're treated because of our chest size can affect our personality, but not to the extent that it controls our lifestyle, unless there's a character with a serious complex about it, in which case misogyny is usually the base cause anyway.

Just because misogyny is popular doesn't ever mean it should be encouraged. Seriously what the hell is that type of argument anyway?



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Perdition Prison- where there are no guards, no rules and no escape. Only the strong survive: http://perditionrp.freeforums.net/

What's the connection with taking something something personally or logically. No wait—how do you take something logically?


Who are these "a lot of people" who it comes off like that? To me it seems it's your bias that implies that.


A valid point. It seems more logical to think the question is about the protagonist.


Again, no one said it's the first thing to consider. As for the question itself, I do think it's rather relevant. Firstly, I am inclined to consider the poll being about the protagonist due to the original question "you're about to enter the anime world as a female character, you want your character bust size"—if you start nitpicking there's no end to it, and there's no merit in it in the first place.

Now relevant why? Because of the variety that is apparent in manga nowadays. Pettanko is the standard type for shoujo manga but there are ones with large bust also. Especially in shounen manga the variety is huge and sometimes the majority of the body volume of a person can be in their bust size. Putting aside the realism or the sexual implications and what not, this poll is (as you said) about personal opinion: "which size would you choose?" The comparison of mainstream (or any other) manga standards and our community preferences the poll is interesting.

One more point I need to touch is your question "Why does boob size matter? Is it somehow indicative of personality?". To a certain extent I'd say, yes, it is. But that's not my point. My point is: why does it need to be? Are you saying personality is all that matters? Then why not just draw all characters to look the same except for a number on their forehead so you know who's who? Appearance does matter, even in a book where there is only text and especially on a manga where you can see the characters. Why would only breasts not matter?

Usually the people who complain something for being prejudicial or whatnot only touch comments about that specific subject being irrelevant to the actual prejudice. I'd say that's what's really prejudicial.

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Far-off places with sweet sounding names.

I personally took this poll from the point of view as a character designer. I thought that's what it was trying to get at. What sort of character designer would you be if you didn't take breasts into consideration when designing a female character? The poll isn't saying that breast size is the most important thing, it's just asking for your opinion on what you would do in that situation; If you were creating a female manga character and the next thing you had to do is decide her bust size.

People are allowed their opinions however. You can rant all you like, I don't really care. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just wanted to throw in, as another female point of view, how I interpreted the poll, and why I am, personally, not offended by it.