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Group Links Update 2

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soyokaze
Post #623778
user avatar
Member

5:01 am, Dec 8 2013
Posts: 22


1. MangaUpdates, Manick - first of all, thanks for clarifying the situation. I won't curse anymore how sick this whole situation is, as everyone here already knows and feels similarly.


2. I think this is very real case of wrong and abusive censorship in work. The next in line for DMCA note might be google, asked to remove most of active scanlators sites from the search engine. Without links neither here nor in google, they are as good as non existing. That is a real threat and abuse of power - even if ultimately declared as legal, the sites are in a deadly grip both financial and social until the end of the court.


3. I'm sure most of people here have seen the script that re-enables links here. That is something completely outside the DMCA note and this whole problem as it is or in future might be made by someone completely anonymous or not connected to the site. Just a random fan. There is one issue with it though, as it works by inserting the list of links that is in the script itself and that means very soon it will be out of date. I know you can add the links by yourself, but it's not a long term solution. It would be needed to get updated with changes and new groups once a month or so, as it doesn't have access do MU database.

You know, putting that aside, today I had a dream in which some anonymous guy magically posts this script updated from time to time. As for me and all really interested, it would solve the whole problem while not being in conflict with the compliance. That's just a dream though, maybe it happens, maybe not. Time will tell.


4. I know you decided not to reveal the organisation behind the note. You might be obliged, you might not know completely, you might still be nervous - I understand. However, there is an elephant in the room that the time it happened might not be a coincidence. I don't have to write what that coincidence is, do I? I have serious reasons to suspect it and I absolutely not tolerate this elephant stepping on whoever it wanted over the past few years.

Thus, if anywhere in the next post that is or isn't an answer to my message (no matter whether you actually answer me or not) you guys write word "yes", I will or will not interpret it that this elephant might or might not be responsible for the compliant. Now, if you excuse me, please forgive me my delusional blabbering and keep doing your best. You are one of the very few sites that managed to stay great over the years.

Last edited by soyokaze at 5:14 am, Dec 8

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yarn
Post #623785 - Reply to (#623775) by soyokaze
yarny, yarny
Member

5:53 am, Dec 8 2013
Posts: 89


Quote from soyokaze


First of all, you cannot assume that everyone here is from USA. We're not.


Chuang Yi would like to have a word with you.

But seriously, even if you don't live in the US, wouldn't you want people who DO, and who have access to it, to buy it? I've known lots of people here who are barely aware that there are legal means to buy/watch anime and manga. They got into it because their friend introduced them to it via scanlations/fansubs, and don't even bother trying to use legal routes, because they're kids and they're naive. How much more does the love need to be freely spread, when it is available to buy for cash?

People on this site have hated me for saying this, I know, but it really is good to buy manga. It doesn't have to be a ton. Just what you can afford. People hate the "big they," but amongst the greedy people in the "big they," are a lot of good people who just want to earn a living.

I've supported putting licensing info at the top of the page for a while, but the site still hasn't implemented it. Maybe they'll reconsider now. Either way, I agree, don't add direct-buy links. MAL has links on all their anime/manga pages direct to Rightstuf, even though most of the stuff isn't even licensed or available there . roll eyes

Sorcha
Post #623793 - Reply to (#623785) by yarn
user avatar
Member

6:45 am, Dec 8 2013
Posts: 337


Whoa, dude.

Did you imply that most people here are ignorant people who won't buy legal manga? Well, it's not completely off the mark, but it isn't fair for those who actually buy the manga/anime, right?

Of course, we want people to buy the manga when they got the access to it, and me myself always buy the manga that I considered good when I could afford it. But I know those quality mangaka from scanlation at internet, and it was way better than randomly buy some manga with nice cover from the bookstore. Why? because most legal manga in my country is well, bad, and made people think manga is a low class reading material.

About the link to amazon or other, I'm with Soyokaze in this case. Why? Because it only focused on US/europe citizen. As someone living in a developing country, to buy manga from US (if they isn't licensed in my country) is expensive. Hell, I could use the money to buy lunch for one weeks. And waving the said link in my face when I can't and won't use it would only made me quit any website/forum asap.

Great
Post #623814
user avatar
Come and Go
Member

10:14 am, Dec 8 2013
Posts: 315


OOT a little :
I just want to mention, there are alot of activity and responding member because of this incident. Quite interesting to see there are even some member whose first few post is reaction to Group Links Case instead of introduction.
That means all this time, they are just sitting in the dark, clicking the link, and when its gone, they come rushing out to defend it. Or at least try to fight for it....
with insult....
or sarcasm....
and alot of intellectual knowledge about DMCA Fraud (No, duskyderp, I dont know about DMCA Fraud. My brother never said anything about it)
Even after Manick inform about it, that Mangaupdates (MU) decision to not reveal the culprit for the DMCA and just blame the MU.
No way! Im not gonna blame MU.
And I didnt intent to bother about the DMCA. Im just trying to encourage, not to abandon MU just because its harder for us to find the link we are looking for.
Quote
3. The DMCA was narrowly targeted at this organization's copyright works. We had to act quickly to ensure that we complied with the request, so we disabled all links. We are looking into code changes to somehow enable links for scanlators who do not scanlate anything related to this organization's licenses. This may take some time.

And I think they could find out how to and the link for the nonrelated to the DMCA could be back up again.

wolfery
Post #623836 - Reply to (#623814) by Great
Member

3:33 pm, Dec 8 2013
Posts: 5


Quote from Great
Im just trying to encourage, not to abandon MU just because its harder for us to find the link we are looking for.

Encourage MU? What for? They complied with all demands of this 'mysterious company' regardless of lawfulness. Or in your America 'law' is just hollow word as in any third world country? In any case seems like MU don't want to defend themselves so your encouragement is wasted.
Lastly, I think that 'mysterious company' wasn't named due to cowardice of MU staff and not any other dignified reason. And if the culprit wasn't named, then we can assume all american publishers as guilty. So if someone find current situation intolerable, don't buy any manga from american publishers ever again. Not that they actually be sad over this, they don't care about rights, community and manga at all. Don't see the reason to shelter that kind of people, but MU does this quite eagerly.

destroyer_ck
Post #623842 - Reply to (#623814) by Great
Member

4:29 pm, Dec 8 2013
Posts: 21


You're obviously talking about me.
i don't mind.
yes i'm a jerk to the bone.

i'm not proud for being such jerk, but nothing more i can do anyway.
and even if it's gone forever, though, at least i know how to google.

but, for sure i don't have any intention to insult or sarcasm.
i'll do the same thing if i'm in their position.
I just point out some possibilities so 'I' can get what 'I' want, without hurting MU much.

i obviously point out about the 'link' that those DMCA associate (host, paypal and i-don't-know-what organization) 'failed' to notice.
just like ordinary jerk, i'm looking for hole in the rules.

flaming me won't give anyone any benefit.
and by that, i have no intention to say anything bad about MU.
i prefer have MU without links to get it shut down by the host.
i've been using it for almost 10 years and it's like a mangawiki for me.
with lots of external resource links.

just treat it as, that the wiki can't have external feature anymore.

Great
Post #623938 - Reply to (#623836) by wolfery
user avatar
Come and Go
Member

5:47 am, Dec 9 2013
Posts: 315


No, Im not talking about anyone specifically.
And No, Im not saying anyone is a jerk. Im just saying that its good that even anyone could join the fray and speak their mind out. Freedom of Speech.

Quote from wolfery
Encourage MU? What for? They complied with all demands of this 'mysterious company' regardless of lawfulness. Or in your America 'law' is just hollow word as in any third world country? In any case seems like MU don't want to defend themselves so your encouragement is wasted.
Lastly, I think that ' ...


Not encourage just MU, but encourage us all. Instead we argue to each other. While the real culprit is probably smiling/laughing because they could stay hidden in the dark.
Oh, and Im not in US.

MinM66
Post #624129
user avatar
Member

9:04 pm, Dec 10 2013
Posts: 60


Quote
"We are not going to vilify the organization that did this. We want to encourage the adoption of manga outside of Japan, and we're not going to help that by putting a face to everyone's anger."


I see..

Quote
"We are looking into code changes to somehow enable links for scanlators who do not scanlate anything related to this organization's licenses."


wait, doesn't that mean anyone with a brain would be able to figure which company submitted it? We'll figure it out anyway, though I am sure most people already suspect the culprit.

cmertb
Post #624132 - Reply to (#624129) by MinM66
user avatar
Member

9:55 pm, Dec 10 2013
Posts: 161


5 bucks on Kodansha.

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Great
Post #624277 - Reply to (#624129) by MinM66
user avatar
Come and Go
Member

5:43 am, Dec 12 2013
Posts: 315


Quote from MinM66
Quote
"We are looking into code changes to somehow enable links for scanlators who do not scanlate anything related to this organization's licenses."


wait, doesn't that mean anyone with a brain would be able to figure which company submitted it? We'll figure it out anyway, though I am sure most people already suspect the culprit.


Well, thats the hard part. making code changes that wont be showing which of them is the culprit, while the non-culprit still could be seen. laugh

wolfery
Post #624348 - Reply to (#623938) by Great
Member

7:31 pm, Dec 12 2013
Posts: 5


No, I didn't try to argue with you. I'm simply disappointed in the way MU handled this situation. They look like some weak mc you may find in many mangas shoved around by everybody. Very frustrating.
Quote
Oh, and Im not in US.
Good for you =)

duskyderp
Post #624425 - Reply to (#623616) by Manick
Member

5:12 pm, Dec 13 2013
Posts: 19


Quote from Manick
6. The DMCA was submitted through an intermediary who specializes in handling removal of copyrighted material from the Internet.

http://www.chillingeffects.org/weather.cgi?WeatherID=816 <--- Manick you may want to read this. Prenda Law is an example of a "copyright troll" and has been fine by US Government for copyright fraud.



Great
Post #624500 - Reply to (#624348) by wolfery
user avatar
Come and Go
Member

8:30 am, Dec 14 2013
Posts: 315


Quote from wolfery
No, I didn't try to argue with you. I'm simply disappointed in the way MU handled this situation. They look like some weak mc you may find in many mangas shoved around by everybody. Very frustrating.


Ermm... I think some of the manga that I like to read has that kind of mc,
and I kinda like the variation of different type of mc available,
doesn't have to be strong or unbeatable,
so,
well,
at least they are still the MAIN Character. biggrin
Oh, and those kind of mc is usually in a Harem manga where they are also surrounded by many other people (weak and strong alike) and they all tend to focus their attention to the mc.

booknik
Post #624518
user avatar
Member

11:39 am, Dec 14 2013
Posts: 72


I don't think MUs reaction was weak. Their move while drastic was the safest one they could made under the circumstances. We shall see where this leads.

________________
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Einstein
Great
Post #624757
user avatar
Come and Go
Member

1:53 am, Dec 16 2013
Posts: 315


Maybe for "strong" people, the "safe" move is "weak".

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