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Opinion on the Confederacy.

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Do you agree with what the Confederacy fought for? Do you agree with what they did? If we rose up once more would you join us?
I agree with what they did and what they fought for. I would fight if they rose again.
I do not agree with what they did or what they fought for. I would not fight.
I do not agree with what they did or what they fought for. I would fight against them.
I agree with what they fought for but not what they did. I would fight for them.
I agree with what they fought for but not what they did. I would not fight.
I don't really care about what they did or how they did it.
Other, explain.
Votes: 48

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Post #632255 - Reply to (#632249) by Damnedman
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6:45 pm, Feb 10 2014
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Quote from Damnedman
There's a big difference between why people became indentured servants and why Africans were systematically enslaved. What does slavery in ancient times have to do with anything if we're talking about serfdom in Europe and slavery in America? In any case, I don't understand why you keep bringing up ...

I find it amusing that you continually attempt to downplay the plights of the serfs. You seemingly claim that being a serf is better than being a slave. That is false and the reason is rather simple. Imagine seeing a sliver of hope but never being able to grasp it. Imagine leaving the land you are confined to to fight and most likely die for a lord that beats you and you people for failing to make quota by a mere bushel. Imagine seeing the lands around where things roam free only to be crushed again and again with no hopes to escape.

Now imagine slavery. Pure slavery. You will never know what you do not have. You have no quotas. You have no idea that you are suppressed. You have no idea that you are being wronged. You can not do anything but you do not know that.

It has always been said that knowing what freedom and hope is but never being able to grasp it, never being able to claim it as your own, is far worse than ignorance. That knowing is worse than not realizing. That being caged in better than being let to explore with a leash. Because a caged bird does not know that it is caged. A caged bird views the world he is in as the whole world while one that is let to roam and see the world but is captured will long for the outside once more yet never grasp it.

The physical pain is worse for the slave but the mental pain eats away at the serf til the day he dies.

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Post #632256 - Reply to (#632205) by you_no_see_me_
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6:47 pm, Feb 10 2014
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Quote from you_no_see_me_
Alright fine. I'll explain it.
I'm against mixing because it removes the diversity of humanity if done to extremes. Having everything mix together leaves only one at the end. This is bad for humanity to a degree in social constructs but horrendously in the genetic factor. Having multiple "races" gives a higher chance for humanity to survive various disasters such as disease. When one disease affects one it has a higher chance of not affecting the others. Where if there is only one "race" then the disease will ravage it as a whole and carries the potential of wiping out humanity.

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because I'm seriously questioning whether you've actually studied biology or you're just quoting your Grand Dragon.

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Post #632258 - Reply to (#632205) by you_no_see_me_
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6:50 pm, Feb 10 2014
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Quote from you_no_see_me_
Alright fine. I'll explain it.
I'm against mixing because it removes the diversity of humanity if done to extremes. Having everything mix together leaves only one at the end. This is bad for humanity to a degree in social constructs but horrendously in the genetic factor. Having multiple "races& ...


What kind of grand wizard have you been learning science from...
That's not how genetics works. Of course, there are certain diseases that a person of a certain race is more likely to get, due to their genetic makeup. But the number of such diseases are few. They're also not usually contagious and mostly hereditary. Also, by your theory of when everyone becomes the same race, those diseases will most likely not even affect us anymore. Why? Evolution.

"When one disease affects one it has a higher chance of not affecting the others." This makes no sense whatsoever and has no scientific backing behind it. Diseases don't go around like they have some kind of quota of people to infect, not even diseases that are common to a certain race. Also contagious diseases actually work the exact opposite...ever heard of the SIR model? The more people that are infected, the more people THEY can infect.

"Where if there is only one "race" then the disease will ravage it as a whole and carries the potential of wiping out humanity." No. You've been watching too many human epidemic movies.

I can't. none

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6:53 pm, Feb 10 2014
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Nevermind, I'm not basing claims on this. Give me a bit.

Ah, found something from Darwin. http://www.heretical.com/darwin/darwin6.html

I'll look for more on the "disease" weakness aspect. Yes I know it is highly unlikely but it is possible.
Also, in reference to them being stronger resistance wise due to evolution. I would like to remind you that the modern society of humanity is not evolving at all or at a stupidly stunted rate. Allowing those that normally would have died to reproduce is not part of evolution. It's a part of self preservation that carries the potential to contaminate the gene pool. This part has nothing to do with race. Just a simple matter that if someone carries something that is genetic and hereditary that can cause death or damage on a common basis that it is not good to pass it on.

Last edited by you_no_see_me_ at 7:09 pm, Feb 10 2014

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Post #632261
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7:06 pm, Feb 10 2014
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There will never be just one race of humans, because there will never be just one climate on earth. (I know never does not exist but for all intents and purposes, by the time earth is dead and there's only one climate, there will be no more humans.)

Post #632262
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7:08 pm, Feb 10 2014
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I like how my post was ignored. I even tried really hard to stay on topic and not be antagonistic. sigh...

Honestly, I don't understand why this degenerated into a "what was worse" type scenario. Why are we rating people's suffering? It's disrespectful and belittling. Slavery is a scar on our history, one we still feel the effects of.

@you_no_see_me_: this was very poorly worded. That you went on to defend yourself instead of just admitting that and editing your original post made it worse. There is a high diversity of people and races on this site. Singling one out either directly or indirectly has backlash. Even if you didn't mean to come off offensive doesn't mean that people won't be offended. I'm still not even sure what you were really asking but I think it's time to close this thread. I don't see this becoming anything other than a debate on slavery.



Post #632264 - Reply to (#632262) by rychels
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7:17 pm, Feb 10 2014
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Quote from rychels
I like how my post was ignored. I even tried really hard to stay on topic and not be antagonistic. sigh...

Honestly, I don't understand why this degenerated into a "what was worse" type scenario. Why are we rating people's suffering? It's disrespectful and belittling. Slavery is a scar on o ...


I had no intention of singling out one race when this started and I still do not. As far as race mixing goes, I do not approve of it for anyone so I am not singling anyone out.

As regards to your original post, sorry, it seems that I somehow missed it. The state's rights that they wished were an escape from what they viewed as a tyrannical government. They had been tariffed at 47% and more or less funded most of the north and the government from it. When Lincoln was asked "Why not let the South go in peace?" he replied "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" It was due to years of this type of treatment that the South came to despise the North. And is one of the leading factors of the Secession. In essence, this means that by states rights they were referring to the ability to produce and sell without being taxed to absurdity by a government that only viewed them on an economic level. Ironically, by starting the war to preserve the southern influx of money they happened to destroy it and ruin the entire influx for the next 150 years. The south is only just recently making a climb back up economically.

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Post #632266 - Reply to (#632259) by you_no_see_me_
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7:21 pm, Feb 10 2014
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Quote from you_no_see_me_
I'll look for more on the "disease" weakness aspect. Yes I know it is highly unlikely but it is possible.
Also, in reference to them being stronger resistance wise due to evolution. I would like to remind you that the modern society of humanity is not evolving at all or at a stupidly stunted rate. Allowing those that normally would have died to reproduce is not part of evolution. It's a part of self preservation that carries the potential to contaminate the gene pool. This part has nothing to do with race. Just a simple matter that if someone carries something that is genetic and hereditary that can cause death or damage on a common basis that it is not good to pass it on.

So, what you're saying here is that....

NOBODY should frakking "mix" with each other because they endanger THE ENTIRE HUMAN SPECIES by doing so?!

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Last edited by Scyfon at 7:28 pm, Feb 10 2014

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7:22 pm, Feb 10 2014
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This whole thread has an underlying bigoted view of the world on the part of the OP. He says he wants to focus on states rights and not to focus on ethnicity yet he's the one that brings it up by saying that there were proud blacks that fought for the South. He then says that he is against "mixing" and defends it by saying that it will lead to the potential eradication of humanity. Also, his signature says his "color is white" and his enemies are "black and red." That surely would not give the wrong impression considering the topic that is at hand, now would it?

Then hahhah42 posts a link describing the Cornerstone Speech in which it states that the Confederacy seceding is due to their way of life in which blacks are meant to be in servitude being under attack by the North. What does OP reply with, "it's the victor that writes history" and tells hahhah42 to question what they are taught although hahha has exposed the OP for his hypocrisy and bias.

Then he says that, "In the end, the Americas could have cared less what race they were" when talking about the mass bondage of people when there is major documentation of the scientific racism that was prevalent throughout the time which viewed blacks as inferior. Even two of the great figures of the U.S., Jefferson and Lincoln viewed them as inferior to whites. Jefferson even went as far as to say that blacks smelled bad and had no imagination, but hey, at least they were loyal. He would put whites at top of the natural chain of people, then Native Americans and then blacks who he saw little virtues in. Plantation owners, prejudice scientists and others in power even used a pseudoscience like Phrenology to justify the slavery of blacks en masse solely because of the color of their skin. There were indentured servants before, but the slavery that was fueled by the Atlantic slave trade was fueled by the idea of blacks being less than whites.

Honestly, OP if you wanted to discuss federalism and states rights then why did you choose a manga forum when there are numerous other outlets in which you can discuss this? Why the Civil War when there are other issues that you could have used to discuss states rights that do not revolve around the complete oppression of a group of people brought to a new world by force? There are even current issues that you could have used. Why didn't you post this in a forum like reddit? Oh that's right, probably because you would have been laughed out of there. laugh

You sir are pathetic and I feel despondent to know that you and I share the same hobby of reading manga.

Post #632268 - Reply to (#632266) by Scyfon
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7:24 pm, Feb 10 2014
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Quote from Scyfon
So, what you're saying here is that....

NOBODY should frakking "mix" with each other because they endanger THE ENTIRE HUMAN SPECIES.


T-that's even what the part you quoted is about. The part you quoted had nothing to do with "mixing".
That part had to do with the fact that people with deadly or destructive hereditary issues reproducing because science allows them to live is not evolution. Evolution would have them die and never have offspring with that issue be reproduced in the first place.
It sounds...quite barbaric and evil but it's just a simple fact that that is not how evolution works.

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Post #632269 - Reply to (#632267) by ThirySixChambers
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7:26 pm, Feb 10 2014
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Quote from ThirySixChambers
This whole thread has an underlying bigoted view of the world on the part of the OP. He says he wants to focus on states rights and not to focus on ethnicity yet he's the one that brings it up by saying that there were proud blacks that fought for the South. He then says that he is against "mixi ...


Why do people keep bringing up the DnD personality test...? It's literally just something that assigns colors from an personality tester for DnD and that type of thing. It's literally the same thing as the one below it. They used to be popular here back in 2010 as far as I remember and I just never bothered to remove them as I found them interesting....

Also, I never denied that people viewed them as inferior at the time. I never questioned that. They did. It is a fact that they did.

The statement was that they simply enslaved everyone that was not white post mid 1600's. Of course it specifically mentions blacks as they were the most prevalent and what most people in the South and North would recognize.

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Post #632270 - Reply to (#632269) by you_no_see_me_
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7:30 pm, Feb 10 2014
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Quote from you_no_see_me_
Why do people keep bringing up the DnD personality test...? It's literally just something that assigns colors from an personality tester for DnD and that type of thing. It's literally the same thing as the one below it. They used to be popular here back in 2010 as far as I remember and I just neve ...

Because you made a thread asking people if they would fight for the Confederacy and their states rights, when that state right was having an entire group of people under their heel because of the color of their skin.

Post #632271 - Reply to (#632270) by ThirySixChambers
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7:31 pm, Feb 10 2014
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Quote from ThirySixChambers
Because you made a thread asking people if they would fight for the Confederacy and their states rights, when that state right was having an entire group of people under their heel because of the color of their skin.


I was referring to the right to trade without have a tariff imposed on them that took half of the profit away and gave it to a government that mocked them.

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Post #632273 - Reply to (#632268) by you_no_see_me_
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7:38 pm, Feb 10 2014
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Quote from you_no_see_me_
Quote from Scyfon
So, what you're saying here is that....

NOBODY should frakking "mix" with each other because they endanger THE ENTIRE HUMAN SPECIES.

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T-that's even what the part you quoted is about. The part you quoted had nothing to do with "mixing".
That part had to do with the fact that people with deadly or destructive hereditary issues reproducing because science allows them to live is not evolution. Evolution would have them die and never have offspring with that issue be reproduced in the first place.
It sounds...quite barbaric and evil but it's just a simple fact that that is not how evolution works.

Stop. Just...stop while you're behind.

-You're mixing natural selection with evolution.

-You're saying that people with "deadly or destructive hereditary issues" should not reproduce (assuming that everyone knows that they even have it)

-You're not seeing how it's hard NOT to look at your D&D sig as a sign that you are indeed a bloody racist with the topic that you yourself brought up.
It's like if I had a swastika as my sig/avatar and I made a thread about how tainted this world is while disguising it as an eco-awareness discussion.

Just stop. This thread should be locked.

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Post #632274 - Reply to (#632271) by you_no_see_me_
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7:39 pm, Feb 10 2014
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Quote from you_no_see_me_
I was referring to the right to trade without have a tariff imposed on them that took half of the profit away and gave it to a government that mocked them.

That's but one reason, as was the Dred Scott decision, the Kansas-Nebraska Act, John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry, Nat Turner's rebellion. Perhaps most importantly:

"While many still debate the ultimate causes of the Civil War, Pulitzer Prize-winning author James McPherson writes that, "The Civil War started because of uncompromising differences between the free and slave states over the power of the national government to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. When Abraham Lincoln won election in 1860 as the first Republican president on a platform pledging to keep slavery out of the territories, seven slave states in the deep South seceded and formed a new nation, the Confederate States of America."

Slavery was the core issue that made the South secede. That's directly from the Civil War Trust website, or are you going to tell me to question what I have been taught as well? laugh

Last edited by ThirySixChambers at 7:44 pm, Feb 10 2014

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