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Remove the 1-rating votes

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Crenshinibon
Post #136610 - Reply to (#136605) by Keel
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1:36 am, Mar 9 2008
Posts: 1897


Quote from Keel
to a certain exent yes...i agree with the 10's cus sumtimes i read a manga that has a crap load of 10's yet still kinda didn't do it for me...yet alot of mangas with a hella lot of 1's are my fav manga...you just enforced my point that ratings are...kinda crap...i think it would b better if a person or a group of people handdled ratings...that wayif i like what they like i'll read what they reccomend....and if i don't like what they like i'll read what they hate...in that case it's a win win situation


Wouldn't it be more effective to be able to view the recommendations of people with similar tastes then, rather than relying on ratings? I mean, one person or even a small group can be very biased towards certain genres. Ideal ratings would show a work's overall quality regardless of any external influences, but that's utterly impossible. The ratings we have do adequately show popularity, but you're probably better off getting recommendations in the looking for section instead if you just don't like them.

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Keel
Post #136622
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1:52 am, Mar 9 2008
Posts: 528


10 56% (347 votes)
9+ 18% (110 votes)
8+ 10% (62 votes)
7+ 6% (38 votes)
6+ 2% (10 votes)
5+ 2% (15 votes)
4+ 1% (9 votes)
3+ 0% (1 votes)
2+ 0% (0 votes)
1+ 5% (28 votes)
these are the ratings for one piece
10 32% (69 votes)
9+ 23% (50 votes)
8+ 20% (44 votes)
7+ 14% (30 votes)
6+ 6% (14 votes)
5+ 3% (7 votes)
4+ 1% (2 votes)
3+ 0% (0 votes)
2+ 1% (3 votes)
1+ 0% (0 votes)
these are ratings for flame of recca

now one piece trumps flame of recca by shear amout of votes but technichally if u consider where the percents lay in percents flame of recca is possibly the better manga...i've read both and i enjoyed both...but if it was based on popularity alone i would skip over flame of recca easy...now if it was a group that i truted to review it would be better because it is the same amout of votes and a consistant opinion that i can apply to myself. it's just and idea

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Manick
Post #136681
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4:15 am, Mar 9 2008
Posts: 2214


I'm sorry that i didn't read this whole thread, but my idea was to make ratings into phrases, like "excellent" for 10, "horrible" for 1, and you would select these instead of the numbers. in addition, i would treat what is 10 now as say, 8 in the new system, and 1's as 3's or 4's (which would stand for Good and Bad, respectively), and all the other votes would be adjusted accordingly. Then, if people really wanted to keep it at 10, they could go in and modify it back again. This way we can get rid of some of the horribly skewed distributions, and hopefully in the future people will decide more carefully by using the rating phrases instead of just numbers.

When I originally designed the system, I purposely left out 0 because I knew we would have abusers, but there's not much you can do about it when using a numerical system...

lys
Post #138752 - Reply to (#136562) by c_k
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4:33 am, Mar 12 2008
Posts: 114


Quote from c_k
Ranking goes from 1 to 10. Please vote based on CONTENT and NOT on scanlation quality. You can imagine each rank as follows:
* 1 - unreadable / despise the manga as a whole
* 2 - hopeless
* 3 - very bad
* 4 - bad
* 5 - decent (neither bad nor good)
* 6 - fine
* 7 - good (recommended)
* 8 - very good
* 9 - great (must read)
* 10 - sugoi (masterpiece)


I think this is like what Manick just said. I really like this idea—I think ANN uses a system like this too? I know I myself overuse the 10 (I generally don't vote below 5 or 6. I think of it as grade percentages, so a 50% would be failing, and beyond that seems unnecessary. it did get published, after all) so rating it based on a phrase rather than a number would probably help me give a better evaluation.

SnoopyCool
Post #138941
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2:15 pm, Mar 12 2008
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Perhaps you could also force anyone who changes their rating to a 10 or a 1 to provide a comment as well. I figure having to give a reason would remove anonymity and make only the people who are actually passionate about it take the time.

syne
Post #139837
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9:17 am, Mar 13 2008
Posts: 81


I, myself, hardly vote for a manga at all. Because I don't bother to vote for the bad ones, one can see the statistics based on how many people have the manga in their lists and how many have actually voted for it.
And it's true that many are too liberal with giving tens. One option I could think of was making it able to click on the votes and view the people who voted, so one could compare his/her tastes and see if the vote would be close to accurate on his/her side as well.
Or make it so that you could vote for a series only if you had it in your complete list (for longer series, this could be replaced with reading list), because then we'd know that the people actually are reading the series not just voting based on first impressions.

Okay, I understand that there are utterly bad manga, and they deserve a 1, but what I've come across are people giving 1's to yaoi series just because they hate homosexual relationships. Now that's what I call objective evaluation on the content.

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Zacharias
Post #139849
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10:19 am, Mar 13 2008
Posts: 272


Fiiiiieeeeew... good thing I dropped by when this topic was still at just 3 pages :s Anymore and I'd kill someone from reading-frustration biggrin

Anyway I don't know if I'm in the right mood right now to be replying to this but in my opinion:
Keep the rating system as it is.

I've read a lot of crazy stuff such as changing to a rating system with only 4 options ?? Dude be realistic; just get rid of the system then because 4 options is just pointless.
Even more to the extreme with just 'i like it' & 'i dont' dead

Also as rileel or releel (I don't remember; he had some (big) posts) said before, and I'll say it again, the many ratings of 10 can hardly be called abuse. A popular series 'true' rating will probably be atleast about 8. A 10 is maximumly 2pts off ?? Now lets see for a "1"... 8-1= 2? nooo wait it's 7!

Anyway like Manic said in theory the 0-rating should be added as well; but then again the mangaka of a 0-rated manga shouldn't even be able to hold his pen roll

Also removing the 1-rating votes could solve some of the 'abuse' (for the time being), but it would still be a pain in the ass for those who (somehow) voted a '1' with a valid reason .

But removing the 1-rating votes is something that can be done; in contrary to removing the 10-rating votes as some are suggesting.
(1) There are waaaaaaaaaaay more '10's than '1's; thus the amount of users that'll have to review their list is waaaaaaaay bigger.
(2) In addition to (1); most '1's are deviations to the other ratings of the series. This amount is probably (relativly) bigger than those of '10's
(Don't know how to use certain statistical terms in other languages sorry for that)

Ugh I feel like there are still some things I forgot to mention here and there but atleast this gives my general opinion. Again; the rating system isn't that bad; even with some 'unjust' ratings as '1's and '10's.
What reminds me that people voting '1' should perphaps not vote at all? I mean if you vote 1 while an overwhelming majority disagrees with you; something must be 'off' in that head of yours right? Maybe wrong genre? (Hell I could go 1-rate each and every shoujo that I can find here with the exception of few). If not well than I guess you can justifiably vote '1'... somehow... cool

OK ~ Bottom line of this reply ==> Change if you must; sweep&clean if you must but don't do anything drastic!

EDIT ~ couldn't help but reread the post above me as well biggrin ~

Quote from syne
One option I could think of was making it able to click on the votes and view the people who voted, so one could compare his/her tastes and see if the vote would be close to accurate on his/her side as well.

Nice suggestion but you can practicly do this already; in the series page you just click on the number of users that has the series in their reading/completed/unfinished list and you will view such a list; with next to the user link, the rating they have given.

Last edited by Zacharias at 10:26 am, Mar 13

Juneau
Post #140410
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12:08 am, Mar 14 2008
Posts: 689


Fair reviews seem more useful than the ratings.

So... drawing attention to this topic:
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=4515

^_^



ippy
Post #140658
Member

6:12 am, Mar 14 2008
Posts: 106


Quote
(1) There are waaaaaaaaaaay more '10's than '1's; thus the amount of users that'll have to review their list is waaaaaaaay bigger.


It doesn't matter whether it'll be a bigger amount or smaller amount, either way, it'll make some users angry that they have to vote again but other people don't have to just because other users disagree with their votes. So, I'm in favor of everyone voting again (new system or labels on the current system) or do nothing.

Juneau
Post #140814 - Reply to (#138941) by SnoopyCool
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1:06 pm, Mar 14 2008
Posts: 689


Quote from SnoopyCool
Perhaps you could also force anyone who changes their rating to a 10 or a 1 to provide a comment as well. I figure having to give a reason would remove anonymity and make only the people who are actually passionate about it take the time.


Somewhat skimmed this topic the first time, but I just saw this and it sounds like a very good idea. A character limit of at least 50-100 would be needed too, so that people don't just say something along the lines of "it sucks"

syne
Post #140911 - Reply to (#139849) by Zacharias
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4:52 pm, Mar 14 2008
Posts: 81


Quote from Zacharias
Nice suggestion but you can practicly do this already; in the series page you just click on the number of users that has the series in their reading/completed/unfinished list and you will view such a list; with next to the user link, the rating they have given.


it shows the number of people who have it in the list, but many don't put it in their lists if they vote 1 (refer to my 'reading only 1 ch note') and many don't have their lists public, so I can't view it either. I don't see what the big deal with this making lists public/unpublic is. why can't they be public? "oh, god, people will see that I read hentai, and they'll start thinking different of me" well, bs, you're hanging with the wrong crowd then.

I like the forced comment thing and the character limit for it. ok, so they could just type: noooooooooooooooooooooooooo, it suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks soooooo baaad r sthbiggrin

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Takiko
Post #141104 - Reply to (#140911) by syne
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9:02 pm, Mar 14 2008
Posts: 630


Quote from syne
I like the forced comment thing and the character limit for it. ok, so they could just type: noooooooooooooooooooooooooo, it suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks soooooo baaad r sth biggrin

The thing is, it should be a character limit but a character minimum. You're trying to encourage or require more than two words out of people. bigrazz laugh

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knyght
Post #141126
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9:29 pm, Mar 14 2008
Posts: 16


The solution is simple, do what the olympics do, kill the biggest and the smallest in this case 1 and 10 , then use the remaining ratings in a student's t distribution and get a number plus a confidence interval.

Juneau
Post #141996 - Reply to (#141104) by Takiko
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3:31 pm, Mar 15 2008
Posts: 689


Quote from Takiko
Quote from syne
I like the forced comment thing and the character limit for it. ok, so they could just type: noooooooooooooooooooooooooo, it suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks soooooo baaad r sth biggrin

The thing is, it should be a character limit but a character minimum. You're trying to encourage or require more than two words out of people. bigrazz laugh


Obviously xD

We both said (strongly implied) minimum.

Gany
Post #142019
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5:11 pm, Mar 15 2008
Posts: 165


Quote from Zacharias
Also as rileel or releel (I don't remember; he had some (big) posts) said before, and I'll say it again, the many ratings of 10 can hardly be called abuse. A popular series 'true' rating will probably be atleast about 8. A 10 is maximumly 2pts off ?? Now lets see for a "1"... 8-1= 2? nooo wait it's 7.


There is no such thing as a "true" rating. Who can be really objective in this forum? Most of the guys around rate according to their feelings not according to the actual "value" of the manga. If you were right, that would mean that any manga with a truckload of 10's would be good which is nonsense.

Quote from Zacharias
But removing the 1-rating votes is something that can be done; in contrary to removing the 10-rating votes as some are suggesting.
(1) There are waaaaaaaaaaay more '10's than '1's; thus the amount of users that'll have to review their list is waaaaaaaay bigger.


That doesn't mean anything, it's not because there are more people voting 10 than 1 that they are more right. As it's been already said neither 10's nor 1's are correct as there is no perfect nor truly horrendous work that deserve such ratings. Therefore if you remove 1, you must remove 10 as well.



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