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New organization

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ashleynicole6422
Post #645908
Member

2:11 am, Jun 30 2014
Posts: 1


Anyone else frustrated with this? For one you don't know which series is releasing and two you don't know which scanlation group is doing what.
I noticed there was a topic on this already however it seems to have been deleted.

I'll probably drop these series until they all are done.

momoiroshiori
Post #645955
Member

4:14 pm, Jun 30 2014
Posts: 1


yeah, I'd be better if each series get it's own page rather than gathering all of them into one series. It's really confusing.

kitty1826x
Post #645958
user avatar
Me too ♥
Member

6:00 pm, Jun 30 2014
Posts: 1031


Geez even after I had to alter the description to include the reading order. (Well, make it a lot easier to understand than what was previously there...)

How about now that I color coded the volumes still getting scanlated?
Does this make things less confusing?



- I believe two threads, have been deleted about this same topic ... When I asked why it was merged I got an answer of (Paraphrasing here) The author considers it all one series. They are all short and only one volume long.

I'm not the sort to complain ... much. I'll ask something once, and if I get a no. Start making lemons into lemonade.


Other than the Release page always saying the name of the series "Warui Koto Shitai" instead of the individual title's name. Just see what number volume it said got released. Click on the page to see what group it working on it, and there.


EDIT ... I think my comment may come off in an anger tone, or rude.
I didn't mean for it to turn out like that if anyone interprets it as such. More as after the previous thread was made I saw one reason why people didn't like it all on one page was because you couldn't easily figure out what to read first. So I altered the description to including the reading order. Hoping that would be enough for others to be okay with the series only being on one page. After seeing this thread. I color coded the ongoing scanlations of the volumes, and even mentioned by which group. (Once the volume is completely scanlated the color text would go away)
Seems less confusing that way right?

Last edited by kitty1826x at 8:36 pm, Jun 30

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evilhime
Post #645979
Member

10:36 pm, Jun 30 2014
Posts: 4


Even if the author consider this series as one series, (I would like to see the source for that comment, though) the series is being published as independent volumes, each one with it's own plot and development, and with a different title to top it all, it doesn't make sense to have all them together in the same page. And that not talking about that there are special chapters that are included in some of the volumes, and no offense, but adding colors or adding the reading order won't make things easier to understand, people didn't read all the volumes and don't need to, maybe some people only want to keep track of one of the pairs and not the other ones, so this just make things harder for people to track what they already read, are reading or are skipping to read.

kitty1826x
Post #645982 - Reply to (#645979) by evilhime
user avatar
Me too ♥
Member

11:08 pm, Jun 30 2014
Posts: 1031


From what I understand. It's a case by case thing to decide if a series would all be listed under one page. It was decided back in March that it all on one page would be better. (By admin(s) ) Probably why it popped up 3 times in the manga list bug topic. (I think I was the first one to ask if it was a bug).
So thread was made asking what happened to the other pages. I replied to that one saying it was all merged together. (That thread got deleted.) Shortly before the 2nd thread asking for an update to the organization. I sent a PM to an admin asking why was it merged, and how could I get it back to multiple pages like before. (At that time the description made it very confusing to know what's going on).
That when I got my reply of (Again paraphrasing here) ' The author considers it all one series. Each volume are interconnected, and suppose to be read in a certain order. Since they give clues to what will happen in the next one. Since they are all short, and only one volume. In this case having it all on one page is better.
That was pretty much my answer for this series is going to say as one page. I altered the description, and because of this thread added the color coding for the ongoing scanlations.

Honestly I see no problem with it all being on one page.
If you only want to read about Towa Aikawa x Mikado Shirahane Oh hey look in the description
Quote
V. involving this pairing are: V.01, V.02, V.05, V.07, V.12
scroll down to see the volume number and title. Boom you're only reading about Towa Aikawa x Mikado Shirahane.
If you want to read it the way it was intended. Hey there's a reading order in the description.
If you want to see which ones are still ongoing. Hey it's color coded.
I would hope you remember the titles of the ones you like. (At least remembering the English title should be easy enough right?)

Lemons into lemonade.

I really just want to say quit whining and deal with it, because it's not that confusing. (this last part isn't directed at you. Just my feelings in general)

Last edited by kitty1826x at 11:26 pm, Jun 30

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I should proof read my comments more, but I won't...
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evilhime
Post #645986
Member

11:38 pm, Jun 30 2014
Posts: 4


It's great that you do lemonade with the lemons, but if the lemons are rotten, nobody will drink your lemonade, honey. And I'm not whining, I just said something everybody been complaining about since the series was merged in March and the mods just try to ignore by deleting the posts about it, that's not nice by the way.
I'm glad you don't see any problem with how the series is right now, but I and a lot of people do, if it wasn't like that people won't keep posting the same thing complaining about how the series was merged.
As I said, you can color, modify or do whatever you like with the description, it's just stupid we have to go reading for the whole summary to find out which volume and which pairing the chapter released that day was, when they are all different volumes, most of them complete

kitty1826x
Post #645987 - Reply to (#645986) by evilhime
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Me too ♥
Member

12:03 am, Jul 1 2014
Posts: 1031


9 complaints out of 502 (I'm just using the number of votes made on the page) doesn't seem like everybody. (From what I remember there was about 5-6 in the precious thread, and the 3 here)

Is it really that hard to remember a volume number? On the Releases page it shows volume number and chapter. Someone really can't remember 'Oh I'm only interested in 11, but 13 just got update. Guess I'll wait longer for the next one from 11'

I agree deleting the other posts wasn't nice, but this really does seem like pure laziness. I don't want to read the whole description.(or skim it) I don't want to check the page itself. Whine whine whine. (Again not directly pointed at you evilhime).


If you feel so strongly about it submit Request Change with a Valid reason why it should be changed back. Something other than "it's confusing" or "I'm want to be lazy".
(Actually I'm not entirely sure if that's what a request change form is for ...)


I have rotten lemons? Okay I'll make some fertilizer.

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evilhime
Post #645992 - Reply to (#645987) by kitty1826x
Member

12:30 am, Jul 1 2014
Posts: 4


I already submitted a request change for this back in March with valid reasons why it should be kept as single series instead as how it is right now, and it got ignored without even a response with a valid reason as to why the series was changed or why won't be changed back, I call that pure laziness too.

It's not a question about laziness or remembering volume numbers, there aren't volume numbers to remember, those are something MU made up because it suited them and that's it, each volume should have its own summary and description, as they develop a different story in each one, even if the characters are the same.

kitty1826x
Post #645995 - Reply to (#645992) by evilhime
user avatar
Me too ♥
Member

1:09 am, Jul 1 2014
Posts: 1031


I see.

Well maybe this thread will get some more attention, but if things stay the same. Come over and make some fertilizer with me smile wink grin

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I should proof read my comments more, but I won't...
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KaoriNite
Post #646711 - Reply to (#645987) by kitty1826x
user avatar
Member

12:51 pm, Jul 8 2014
Posts: 400


Well I was wondering what happened to that thread where a lot of people were complaining about the new organization. I feel like I'm living in some country where the government censors people who have opposing views.

Quote from kitty1826x
Is it really that hard to remember a volume number?


For me, yes. I know that I've read some of the volumes, but not all of them. I know that I have some couples that I like, and others I'm not interested in reading about. And given that this series been ongoing since 2006(?), with very sporadic updates, does anyone really expect me to remember what I've read vs. what I'd planned on reading vs. what I planned to skip? I wouldn't chalk this up to just laziness and dismiss people's complaining for meaningless whining. The new organization is confusing and the fact that there are so many people who are bothered by it, and can't find any benefit to it should be reason enough for it to be changed back. why is being confusing dismissed as an invalid reason?

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holy`bell
Post #646882
Status: RL Busy
Site Admin

8:18 am, Jul 10 2014
Posts: 37


Please deal with the way it is for the time being. This organization of grouping title in a series is part of a long experimentation of (whether there are any indication listed in its name, etc. or not), particularly single volume titles. In this case, titles that are part of a series, but are not written/indicated on its covers (See link 1 and link 2 for more detail. Also the magazine indicated it upon serialization. (It is not no longer listed now.)), and the characters are often intermingled with each other if remember correctly (despite the focus on said pairing) in each volume.
Would the titles have been grouped as a series from the get-go? Most likely yes, but the problem was they were not so at the beginning. Also I don't think it is necessary to chronicle the development of each pairs' relationship by each volume in its description. As for the naming of the releases, they are no different than that of the Finder series. What I do agree is an improvement and organization of information in the description field.

Update: A similar series similiar to the organization to this series is Shitsuren Mania, but is focus on one pair.

Last edited by holy`bell at 11:58 pm, Jul 16

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KaoriNite
Post #647045 - Reply to (#646882) by holy`bell
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11:58 am, Jul 12 2014
Posts: 400


If all of the volumes were grouped together and scanlated in a similar way to something like Junjou Romantica (which is kind of the closest I can think of to this kind of series, where there's multiple couples that are interconnected but each have their own distinct storyline) there wouldn't really be a problem. This issue arises with that even if the author intended the different volumes to all be considered a single series, that is not the way that it has been scanlated. So for mangaupdates to have one way of organizing it, and then scanlators and manga aggregates having another way of organizing it totally confuses the reader. Not to say that there weren't any, but I didn't see any complaints about the previous organization, so was there really a need for this change?

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kitty1826x
Post #647047 - Reply to (#646882) by holy`bell
user avatar
Me too ♥
Member

1:19 pm, Jul 12 2014
Posts: 1031


Quote from holy`bell
Please deal with the way it is for the time being.
... Does this mean you may change it back? One of those if this experiment goes well it'll stay as one page, or revert back?


Quote from holy`bell
What I do agree is an improvement and organization of information in the description field.
none You think it still needs improvement? And here I thought it's pretty cleaned up and understandable.




Quote from KaoriNite
So for mangaupdates to have one way of organizing it, and then scanlators and manga aggregates having another way of organizing it totally confuses the reader.
What? .... What organization from scanlators? So far this has been scanlated by 12 different groups, and when I went to each site (to see if a series is still ongoing, or dropped). They only had that one volume listed, and for groups that have/are working on more than one volume they have it as Warui Koto Shitai series then volume name.
As for manga aggregates ... okay they have it all separate. So what? There's a reading order in the description here at MU.

Quote from KaoriNite
confuses the reader. Not to say that there weren't any, but I didn't see any complaints about the previous organization, so was there really a need for this change?

In the aspect of someone new picking it up, this way is a lot more convenient.
As for those that have read the series before March - depending if they skipped volumes or not, it is also more convenient to have it all on one page. As holy`bell " I don't think it is necessary to chronicle the development of each pairs' relationship by each volume in its description."
Having them all have their own page is like a long manga listing every arc, and giving a description to each arc.

As for
Quote from KaoriNite
For me, yes. I know that I've read some of the volumes, but not all of them. I know that I have some couples that I like, and others I'm not interested in reading about. And given that this series been ongoing since 2006(?), with very sporadic updates, does anyone really expect me to remember what I've read vs. what I'd planned on reading vs. what I planned to skip? I wouldn't chalk this up to just laziness

Well ... yeah I'd still call that laziness >.>

Okay you only like some couples. Let's say you like all of them except pair two.
It has it listed which titles focuses on pair two, so you know you didn't read those.

Not sure if you've read all the ones from the pairs you do like? Well you would have most likely read it in somewhat chronological order right? If you liked pair 1 ( V.01, V.02, V.05, V.07, V.12 ) It's not like you would have read 1, 2 and 7. For some odd reason skipping 5 right?
If it's been so long that you can remember where you left off why not reread from the beginning (skipping the pairs you don't like if you wish).


Other than having each title under a complete list, and rating it. (Again that's like rating each arc to a series.) Is there really a need to change it back?

________________
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I should proof read my comments more, but I won't...
So keep in mind I'm filled with typos

Check out FAQ and Forum Rules if you haven't yet.
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KaoriNite
Post #647194 - Reply to (#647047) by kitty1826x
user avatar
Member

1:19 am, Jul 14 2014
Posts: 400


Quote from kitty1826x
Quote from KaoriNite
So for mangaupdates to have one way of organizing it, and then scanlators and manga aggregates having another way of organizing it totally confuses the reader.
What? .... What organization from scanlators? So far this has been scanlated by 12 different groups, and when I went to each site (to see if a series is still ongoing, or dropped). They only had that one volume listed, and for groups that have/are working on more than one volume they have it as Warui Koto Shitai series then volume name.
As for manga aggregates ... okay they have it all separate. So what? There's a reading order in the description here at MU.


That's one of the things that adds to the confusion. With most mangas, particularly yaoi, there will be multiple groups scanlating the same series. It would be more convenient to have it separated by couples and therefore even with multiple scanlators it would be more obvious what chapters are being updated.
Quote from kitty1826x
Quote from KaoriNite
confuses the reader. Not to say that there weren't any, but I didn't see any complaints about the previous organization, so was there really a need for this change?

In the aspect of someone new picking it up, this way is a lot more convenient.
As for those that have read the series before March - depending if they skipped volumes or not, it is also more convenient to have it all on one page. As holy`bell " I don't think it is necessary to chronicle the development of each pairs' relationship by each volume in its description."
Having them all have their own page is like a long manga listing every arc, and giving a description to each arc.


The difference is that long manga usually don't have different protagonists for each arc. Yes, the characters are all connected (either relatives or classmates), but they each have separate stories. What happens to one couple doesn't really effect the storyline of another couple, so it makes more sense to have them separated.

Quote from kitty1826x
As for
Quote from KaoriNite
For me, yes. I know that I've read some of the volumes, but not all of them. I know that I have some couples that I like, and others I'm not interested in reading about. And given that this series been ongoing since 2006(?), with very sporadic updates, does anyone really expect me to remember what I've read vs. what I'd planned on reading vs. what I planned to skip? I wouldn't chalk this up to just laziness

Well ... yeah I'd still call that laziness >.>


Call it laziness if you want. What's so wrong with being lazy? I think most people just want what's most convenient. I should be able to click on a series and know immediately what I've read and what I haven't (either through being able to mark it complete or have my last chapter read listed). I shouldn't have to shift through and go, okay I liked this couple, so I should have read all of their volumes (unless I was busy at the time of the last release and decided to put it on hold), and I can't remember if I liked this couple or not, so I have to read their first volume again to remember if I dropped them or not

Quote from kitty1826x
Other than having each title under a complete list, and rating it. (Again that's like rating each arc to a series.) Is there really a need to change it back?


Maybe this could at least be put up to a vote or something. It could be that the people who don't like the new organization are just the vocal minority, while the majority don't really care.

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xKiYoMiNaTiONx
Post #647653
user avatar
Member

6:14 am, Jul 19 2014
Posts: 8


I don't like this... =/ Is it possible to include how many chapters/extras each volume has? This is really confusing as I like to keep the pairs separated... >_<...

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