There is a point to the comparison because this is a discussion about a poll on a site with a largely western userbase, as previous poll results have reflected. Understand that, while manga is originally designed for a Japanese audience, the polls on this site are not (hence why they're, you know, in English).

Don't go around throwing insults when you have nothing to back your claim of some sort of "influx of male Japanese manga readers". I originally brought up Western gender expectations because this is a site with a majority of North American and European users. Don't believe me? Simply visit the list of older polls and search "continent". In a more recent poll, only 2 percent of respondents stated their primary language was Japanese. You're grasping at straws; I'm simply pointing out facts.

Also, remember that my first several posts were made in reference to the poll's older wording. Initially, many users responded to this poll negatively because they like works from all four of the demographics. I simply voiced an opinion as to what could be the underlying cause behind the amount of prejudice we saw against the female oriented demographics. I used your original post as a reference for my argument, but it wasn't meant as a direct attack to you.



That was an open invitation for you to describe your own experiences in the matter. Initially you yourself agreed (or at least said it was a "fair statement") that in western societies, girls face less criticism for expressing interest in masculine things as opposed to vice versa. If you've observed the exact opposite to be true, then please tell - I'm always willing to expand my views of the world. This is supposed to be a discussion, not some sort of battleground for who's "right" or "wrong". However, by your continued use of disparaging language, I see you are less than willing to continue on in a mature manner, so we can end this here. The poll was changed to include "read the least", so I'm already happy.

Last edited by Calamansi at 4:12 pm, Jun 21 2015

Yes, but citing a Western poll about how people think/believe about manga is meaningless since Westerners aren't the target audience in the first place.

You could have a similar poll about Western novel genres given to Japanese audiences and be given similarly extreme results.



Yes, it was a "fair statement" because it was broad, vague statement. What do you consider "Western"? By some standards, Japan is a "Western" country yet Japan is the same country where there are women-only train cars due to molestation.

This isn't a classroom nor am I a teacher. If you're not stating your intentions or questions clearly, there is little to discuss.

You were the one who initially brought up the whole Western society vs Japanese/ Eastern society dilemma, so I'd like to hear your own opinions on what distinguishes the two.

Unfortunately, the only countries I've been to are the United States, Canada, China, and Japan. As far as the cardinal points are concerned, the former two and the latter two represent countries positioned in the extremes of the western and eastern directions, respectively. However, we both know that we mostly use geography to group the two different societies together, and geography only begins to explain their intricacies.

From personal experiences, I could try describing how the US and Canada simply "felt" different from the nations I visited in the east, but it would be terribly biased and inaccurate because I've spent a disproportionate amount of time in the States. I could also regurgitate the things I learned back in AP World History, but that'd be an essay neither of us would want to plow through (though if you're really interested, we can continue this over PM).



You believe citing a Western poll is meaningless? Even though the poll I'm citing is the one we're currently discussing? It's only natural to reference it, since it's the topic. I don't see the point in continuing this discussion if you believe the very topic is meaningless. We've gotten enough off-topic as is.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh......



I believe citing a Western poll on a Japanese subject is misleading. And a number of people claimed that the poll itself was poorly worded.

If you think that a poorly worded (and since edited) poll about a Japanese topic from a primarily-Western audience holds a lot of weight, there is nothing to discuss.

There you go, using "uhh" again as if people can read your mind. If you have a differing opinion, then state it; otherwise, don't bother saying anything at all because you're coming across as rude and not contributing much to the discussion. What you quoted is comparable to an introductory statement I would've used in a timed writing; don't take it as an answer in full.

As far as this topic goes, yes, the poll results are relevant because this is the place for discussing said poll. I never attempted to make any overarching statements that could explain the way manga demographics, in general, are viewed - just the way they are viewed on this site. If I did, I would have 1). Been off topic and 2). Definitely cited data on Japanese opinions.

I would've guessed otherwise initially, but it seems you dislike this poll more than I do, and I was one of the people who first opposed to the wording. I don't know what you're here for, but I was interested in discussing the poll's results, which now make more sense based on the new wording. I've only continued this discussion because you made false assumptions about my argument and then deemed it fit to claim I was "ignorant" or a "fool" based on said assumptions within the same posts. Not cool.

So are you or are you not a mind reader?





So are you making overarching statements or not?



I don't dislike the poll, before or after the edit. What I dislike is the MU community is getting itself into a frenzy over the poll. The idea that MU readers "hate" or "dislike" genres like Shoujo and Josei ultimately meaningless since so many MU readers lack the cultural/social background to understand those genres in the first place. Therefore, its only natural that they will "hate" or "dislike" the genre.

Clarification: I cannot translate non-committal grunts. However, like you, I am capable of making assumptions. If I was false in doing so, feel free to tell me.



Not ones about people's views on manga demographics on a global perspective. Did you not read the part that says, "that could explain the way demographics, in general, are viewed"?



You seem to be avoiding several of my direct questions - even though I have tried to pose them as bluntly as possible, as per your request. Still waiting for your own experiences on gender expectations, and what you define as "eastern" or "western". But I'll try again, 'cause I'm curious.

What makes you so confident that the MU community's opinion on the matter is null and void? Have you lived in, or are you currently living in Japan? Or have you extensively studied Japanese culture? Sure, manga was originally intended for a Japanese audience, but as far as I'm aware we're all humans in a highly globalized world, with exposure to media and entertainment from all sorts of countries. Many of us responded that we don't hate any of the genres. Personally, I don't dislike any of them; I just read shoujo the least because I mostly follow long, ongoing series, and all the shoujo I really like tend to be max 50 chapters.

I'm not saying you're wrong; I just want to know your reasons, and the source of your confidence.



Last edited by Calamansi at 2:33 pm, Jun 22 2015

I don't know if you were false because I don't know what you're talking about.



Seeing as MU polls barely push 20,000 votes, I think you have a very narrow view on demographics.



My experiences on gender expectations? Guy get blue, girls get pink. What do you want me to say?

I define "Eastern" or "Western" based on the context.



Based on the fact that the overwhelming majority of the MU community does not live in Japan nor do they buy Japanese copies of manga?

And I think you're confused - I was still referring to manga demographics in the quoted text. I don't see why you brought up the whole 20,000 votes thing, unless you think I was inferring that this poll would be the sample to use when explaining how manga demographics, as a whole, are viewed. 'Cause I wasn't.



I was curious because you initially reacted so vehemently when you misunderstood one of my earlier posts. I thought there was a personal reason behind you insinuating the idea that, unlike in countries with more Western cultures, women in Japan do not face less criticism for expressing interest in masculine things than men.



Well, okay. I'm sure most people do, since they're such vague concepts. Still doesn't answer the question, but I don't care anymore.



But neither do you, apparently. Which is why I find it... jarring, to say the least, that you make definitive statements such as how the MU community's opinion is "meaningless". I thought such confidence stemmed from a certain level of credibility (like you having actually been to Japan, at least), but, judging from the fact you haven't stated otherwise, I suppose not.

In the future, I advise you consider your own experiences and knowledge base before making claims of how someone else is an "ignorant fool" or "knows nothing" (which I now know were due to a misunderstanding) in reference to a subject (i.e. Japanese culture) that you, yourself, seem to have little credibility in. It's one thing to disagree; it's another to rudely assert your own opinion.

But whatever, I feel like I've gone lecture-y on you enough, and though I've done a terrible job of proving otherwise that honestly isn't my style. Feel free to take my advice or ignore it or give some sort of inflammatory response; I'm done.

If you were referring to manga demographics outside of MU; two words, Citation Needed.



Ah no. You genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/22/japanese-par liament-to-women-breed-don-t-lead.html



I don't but I used to import Japanese manga (Hurray for Magic Knight Rayearth artbooks!). Nonetheless, it meaningless.

Its long been known that publishers use the sales figures/popularity polls for manga volumes sold to gauge whether or not to keep a manga ongoing. If the manga doesn't sell/garner votes, it doesn't matter what the MU community or international readers think. The manga gets dropped. English copies do not factor into that since they're only published long after its been "tested" in Japanese markets and English popularity polls are not used/taken.

The idea that you think that you've been lecturing this whole time without knowing this basic industry fact demonstrates your remarkable ego. I can only imagine you dread the prospect of recognizing your own deflated self-esteem.